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henry cho
05-26-2009, 06:20 PM
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0905/09052701canon5dmarkiifirmware.asp

Full aperture selection
ISO speed: Auto, 100 – 6400 and H1
Shutter speed: 1/30th – 1/4000th second

Kholi
05-26-2009, 06:26 PM
wellp, I said I would get one. Putting in an order right now.

Isaac_Brody
05-26-2009, 06:30 PM
Sweet, well this changes the game. :)

dadoboy
05-26-2009, 06:32 PM
Great. Hope Samys updates their firmware on all their rental units.

phoric
05-26-2009, 06:36 PM
This is huge. Great job everyone who helped keep the pressure on!

f64manray
05-26-2009, 06:38 PM
Amazing. They actually listened.

Kholi
05-26-2009, 06:38 PM
NOW we can do a real shoot out between the GH-1 and MKii. =D No excuses.

Exciting times we live in. Trying to find out if I should go to BB tonight and grab a body or check around online for some deals.

dcarstens
05-26-2009, 06:45 PM
Good news indeed, though I'll still be ordering a GH1 for 24p and variable frame rates, without which I highly doubt we'd be seeing this firmware upgrade to begin with!

Kholi
05-26-2009, 06:47 PM
Good news indeed, though I'll still be ordering a GH1 for 24p and variable frame rates, without which I highly doubt we'd be seeing this firmware upgrade to begin with!

Yup. And together they both still cost less than an HPX170.

sick.

Ian-T
05-26-2009, 06:53 PM
Hmmm...funny how they are doing this around the same time as the GH-1's US debut. LOl

Hopefully Panasonic responds...ya know

Kholi
05-26-2009, 06:55 PM
http://prolost.com/storage/post-images/5dmark2vid.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=12433888 01596

LoL I dno prtty epic hu gaiz?

Ian-T
05-26-2009, 06:56 PM
That was pointed squarely at Red.

Finster
05-26-2009, 07:01 PM
Wow ... I speechless. So glad I got mine two weeks ago.

Suddenly I'm madly in love with Canon.

I'm so fickle.

Canon USA press release! (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=MultiMiscPageAct&key=EOS_5DMKII_Firmware&fcategoryid=139&WT.mc_id=EM0905EO04001&Lead.FirstName=Thanh&LTYP=FRIENDS&CollateralRequest.CollateralRequestID=7866CR100000 2618&Lead.Email=lvktv%40yahoo.com&cmpgn=eosn&LID=Lead.LeadID&Lead.LeadID=19248687)

mcgeedigital
05-26-2009, 07:08 PM
Damn, maybe I'll sell my D300....as a diehard Nikon guy I can't believe I just said that...lol.

LoganMackay
05-26-2009, 07:08 PM
Well damn, I already put a non refundable deposit on the GH1.

Texanite
05-26-2009, 07:10 PM
Ho...ly...crap. Now THIS is a game changer.

Ian-T
05-26-2009, 07:17 PM
What about manual shutter? Does it already have that or is it included in this update?

taubkin
05-26-2009, 07:18 PM
Congratulations guys, we deserve it!

:beer:

ChipG
05-26-2009, 07:21 PM
Ho...ly...crap. Now THIS is a game changer.

Yep, I assumed Canon would make everyone wait for the 5dIII to have these features.

I think I will still keep my gh1's on pre order due to thier smaller size and weight. I pre ordered a second GH1 ths morning, story of my life.

Kholi
05-26-2009, 07:23 PM
LoL Why does everyone keep saying "yeah, but still no 24P"

LoLoLoL. Awesome.

Brian G
05-26-2009, 07:26 PM
Knew something was up with 54 viewing said to myself hmmm, whats going on here. Maybe the next go round 24p?

Texanite
05-26-2009, 07:26 PM
Yep, I assumed Canon would make everyone wait for the 5dIII to have these features.

I really did too. As far as I'm concerned, the MKII offered so much that made it a professional level image acquisition device, but the lack of manual control in video was too much for me. I was really hesitant to pay that kind of money for a camera that I had to 'trick' like an old HV20. I honestly didn't think something like this would happen until 2010 and maybe then not even from Canon.


I think I will still keep my gh1's on pre order due to thier smaller size and weight. I pre ordered a second GH1 ths morning, story of my life.

I'm cancelling my 2nd GH1 preorder and I'm still thinking about my first one... there are some plusses to the GH1, like the ability for me to use all my FD lenses as well as 16mm lenses and whatnot. It's also smaller, probably more discreet and, clearly, less of a monetary investment than the MK2.

Man, I'm going to have to sleep on this one. If it wasn't for the GH1, I would have already bought a MK2 even with its problems. The dangling carrot of manual control that the GH1 offers was enough to pull me from Canon to Panasonic. Now that that carrot is not so unique, I really have to think about this.

Tony_Reyes
05-26-2009, 07:27 PM
This is GREAT news. I talked to a pro photographer (who works with Canon) on set a week ago and his 2 cents was that Canon would hold out and release manual control with their Mark III. I was genuinely sad, haha.

ChipG
05-26-2009, 07:27 PM
LoL Why does everyone keep saying "yeah, but still no 24P"

LoLoLoL. Awesome.

I never cared about 24p because I don't shoot movies, for the tv project I'd use it on 30fps is pefect!

Kholi
05-26-2009, 07:30 PM
Yeah it's no big deal to me with the conversions that you can do. There's been enough testing to know that it can work out.

I called three people and texted one, all who were interested in the MKii purchase sine the GH-1 wasn't out. Let them know the MKii got controls and everyone last one was like "But no 24P? ah man.."

voltes
05-26-2009, 07:33 PM
Thank you Canon! Bravo!

ChipG
05-26-2009, 07:34 PM
Man, I'm going to have to sleep on this one. If it wasn't for the GH1, I would have already bought a MK2 even with its problems. The dangling carrot of manual control that the GH1 offers was enough to pull me from Canon to Panasonic. Now that that carrot is not so unique, I really have to think about this.

This would never happen in a "good economy" they'd make you buy another camera to get the updates.

Maybe Canon and Panny posting record losses is making them realize they need to change thier way of thinking in this economy.

Let's hope so. If Panny needed someone to light a fire under thier asses to improve the GH1 via firmware it just happened.

PappasArts
05-26-2009, 07:36 PM
wellp, I said I would get one. Putting in an order right now.

Indeed... Me too!

mrmoe
05-26-2009, 07:43 PM
Well done Canon!

NIKON, your move!

Pansonic, LIVEVIEW please.

Cheers

dadoboy
05-26-2009, 07:43 PM
This bodes well for that rumored APS Canon video camera, the way they are marketing this update for independent filmmakers.

I think Canon has pointed out they realize we all want larger sensors, manual controls, etc.

RED should be in for a real doozy of a fight on the sub 10K scarlet market.

Kholi
05-26-2009, 07:43 PM
Indeed... Me too!

Yeaaah buddy! Scarlet just died a little [more] inside.

Daniel L.
05-26-2009, 07:43 PM
Don't forget the enhances in the works by Hudson. On screen levels, maybe 24p, and more on the way.

Would not have been long before manual was unlocked anyway, but we are not done yet!

Finster
05-26-2009, 07:47 PM
Just ordered the 50mm 1.4 + 200mm 2.8! :beer:

Anyone want to buy my Nikon lenses?

voltes
05-26-2009, 07:47 PM
I find it a little funny that their announcement was made to look like a movie poster. Nice touch. It's even rated 'A' for awesome. :D

My 100mm f/2.8 just arrived today as well. Perfect timing!

Ian-T
05-26-2009, 07:48 PM
Even funnier to me is the reference to "Epic"

Texanite
05-26-2009, 07:49 PM
I find it a little funny that their announcement was made to look like a movie poster. Nice touch. It's even rated 'A' for awesome. :D

I don't want to delve too far into conspiracy theories, but if you've ever spent time on the reduser forum, this poster looks just like the kind of stuff that the red-fanz post over there whenever JJ posts a render. Honestly, my first guess was that that "M" poster was homegrown and not from Canon at all.

Steve Castle
05-26-2009, 07:51 PM
Very good news. Honestly, with the GH1, and now with the 5DII having manual controls its absolutely unacceptable for a dSLR maker to be putting video in their devices without something so fundamental as manual controls. Next up, Nikon.

Ian-T
05-26-2009, 07:54 PM
I don't want to delve too far into conspiracy theories, but if you've ever spent time on the reduser forum, this poster looks just like the kind of stuff that the red-fanz post over there whenever JJ posts a render. Honestly, my first guess was that that "M" poster was homegrown and not from Canon at all.
Well...there are plenty of folks at other sites receiving updates directly from Canon newsletters in their email about this firmware update. This is definitely for real.

FatDaddy
05-26-2009, 07:56 PM
Yes, investing in lenses for stills and video!

I just recently sold the 5d and was heading towards the GH1, but now will head towards the 5D MarkII and some nice glass... and why not pick up a GH1 also!

(I still think Nikon will step it up with the D400 later this summer)

Texanite
05-26-2009, 07:56 PM
Well...there are plenty of folks at other sites receiving updates directly from Canon newsletters in their email about this firmware update. This is definitely for real.

Oh no, I didn't mean that the firmware announcement wasn't real. I was just referring to the poster itself. :beer: Sorry, I realize I wasn't being clear. And my "conspiracy theory" comment was related to whether or not the poster was Canon poking directly at Red.

Texanite
05-26-2009, 07:57 PM
(I still think Nikon will step it up with the D400 later this summer)

And I heard somewhere that some little startup company called 'red' was going to release something this year... or was that next year... or was that...? :Drogar-Love(DBG):

voltes
05-26-2009, 07:58 PM
Even funnier to me is the reference to "Epic"

And the letters in Red color....

Kholi
05-26-2009, 07:59 PM
Man, here's the awesomeness: GH-1 and MKii will play nicely together as far as glass goes. You can use your glass on BOTH cameras.

Nikon won't be able to hang in that department. The amount of difference in lenses that will show up in footage between the GH-1 and Canon will be awesome.

Sweeee~t

voltes
05-26-2009, 08:00 PM
I don't want to delve too far into conspiracy theories, but if you've ever spent time on the reduser forum, this poster looks just like the kind of stuff that the red-fanz post over there whenever JJ posts a render. Honestly, my first guess was that that "M" poster was homegrown and not from Canon at all.

I actually got an email directly from Canon with the exact same poster. I have no doubt this is for real this time.

Texanite
05-26-2009, 08:04 PM
I actually got an email directly from Canon with the exact same poster.

That's hilarious and awesome at the same time. While I'm still not completely convinced that it's Canon taking a dig at Jim and Red, the fact that they released a poster that looks like the red-fanz Scarlet mockup posters cracks me up. :thumbup: Add in the use of the word "Epic" and whatnot and it really makes you wonder :)

squig
05-26-2009, 08:14 PM
ahh man, whaddamIgonnado! 30p in PAL land might kill me.....but the image! Nikon have to get the D400 right now. Don't think I'll be getting a GH1 now.

LoganMackay
05-26-2009, 08:18 PM
ahh man, whaddamIgonnado! 30p in PAL land might kill me.....but the image! Nikon have to get the D400 right now. Don't think I'll be getting a GH1 now.


You seem to flipflop alot.

Tony_Reyes
05-26-2009, 08:23 PM
My Facebook update is about the firmware update, all of my friends are asking me what in the heck I am talking about. To put it in perspective I told them it's like I'm 6 years old again opening Christmas presents. HAHA. I'm stoked.

squig
05-26-2009, 08:23 PM
just looking for the best imagery I can get for the film on a shoestring.

how's this for a conspiracy theory: Canon got wind of the feature set of the D400 and had to counter with this update.

SPZ
05-26-2009, 08:25 PM
Any definitive way of converting 30p to 25p/24p without motion stuttering on FCP/Mac?

I'm sincerely planning on buying this, but I'm in PAL land, and shooting flourescent lights is a bit of a hassle with the 60hz/50hz dilema...

I'm seriously on the fence here. You know, part of me would jump on this camera today, but other tells me- just wait two more months. Canon will announce something for video soon, and RED will respond...

Elton
05-26-2009, 08:31 PM
This bodes well for that rumored APS Canon video camera, the way they are marketing this update for independent filmmakers.

I think Canon has pointed out they realize we all want larger sensors, manual controls, etc.

RED should be in for a real doozy of a fight on the sub 10K scarlet market.

This is a very interesting point and I would tend to agree that it's an indication of Canon's future direction with their high end video line.

I have to think that the video division is free to develop a "real" pro/semi-pro large sensor video camera now.

I would speculate that we will see a new XL-ish camera/lens ecosystem built around a larger chip and a proprietary native lens system, much like the XL's line, (hopefully MANY more lenses) but with the added bonus of EOS compatibility. I would even go so far as to say that we might see a camera with Adobe Cinema DNG recording capability--ok, yeah yeah, I know, gettin' ahead of myself, but is it really that far fetched?

Good times!

Finster
05-26-2009, 08:33 PM
I'm seriously on the fence here. You know, part of me would jump on this camera today, but other tells me- just wait two more months. Canon will announce something for video soon, and RED will respond...

If you can afford to wait, then wait. Lots of interesting cameras coming down the pipe. The landscape will look a lot different come Fall 2009.

My shoot starts June 5th and runs until mid July, so I had to jump in.

I can't believe this update will be released June 2nd ... three days before my shoot. Canon, I ... I ... I LOVE YOU!!!

squig
05-26-2009, 08:42 PM
there's a fcp/compressor workflow to 24p and I'm told it works really well. can't find the link right now but I've posted it a few times.

I've been trying to find out how the 30p will affect me in 50hz land but after much research I haven't really found anything conclusive. So if somebody in PAL land could enlighten me about eliminating scrolling waves under sodium vapor and CFL lighting I'd really appreciate it.

ChipG
05-26-2009, 08:43 PM
how's this for a conspiracy theory: Canon got wind of the feature set of the D400 and had to counter with this update.


All these cameras are in the world series now image wise and in the next 6-12 months you will see a FLOOD of jaw dropping astonishing images from photojournalist, indies and guys who shoot stock footage and probably 11 year old kids.

Time to start putting your time into character development, story structure, finding believable actors, lightng, sound, locations, unique shots that wow the audience (main benefit with these cams, so use it) etc.

If your movie isn't good you wll not be able to blame it on the GH1 or 5DII.

Just go buy a freaking camera.

squig
05-26-2009, 09:01 PM
I'll wait a couple of weeks for the dust to settle and see if Nikon announces the D400....it's long been rumored for a July release

Daniel L.
05-26-2009, 09:05 PM
squig,

I can picture you about this time next year on here still waiting for that next camera :p

dadoboy
05-26-2009, 09:11 PM
It's going to be hard to even rent this darn thing, let alone buy it. What's the waiting period on the current 5D with current firmware like? Double that in a week!

Kholi
05-26-2009, 09:11 PM
You seem to flipflop alot.

SERIOUSLY though. Spaz like whoa.

ChipG
05-26-2009, 09:12 PM
I'll wait a couple of weeks for the dust to settle and see if Nikon announces the D400....it's long been rumored for a July release

Your a junkie with a bad addiction :)

Kholi
05-26-2009, 09:14 PM
It's going to be hard to even rent this darn thing, let alone buy it. What's the waiting period on the current 5D with current firmware like? Double that in a week!

There hasn't been a real waiting time in a while. You just order and it gets here in like three days.

The firmware update might had a hundred or so users to the map, but not that many.

Still, I'm with Elton (as usual) about the advent of a larger camera.

Problem is, Im not about to pay 8K for it. LOL.

The days of Crippled Prosumer video for me are gone.

And, perhaps, for Canon to take advantage of the Full Frame without some of the anomalies we see because it's tossing out information it'll have to be a raw or massive image?

Thoughts.

ChipG
05-26-2009, 09:19 PM
It's going to be hard to even rent this darn thing, let alone buy it. What's the waiting period on the current 5D with current firmware like? Double that in a week!

There are a few places that have them in stock, if you want this camera I'd buy it tomorrow or else there could be some big problems finding one this summer until Canon ramps up production.

QTI
05-26-2009, 09:19 PM
Very good news. Honestly, with the GH1, and now with the 5DII having manual controls its absolutely unacceptable for a dSLR maker to be putting video in their devices without something so fundamental as manual controls. Next up, Nikon.

Its amazing the DSLR market has changed so much in just a few months.

I would have bought a 5DII long time ago if I were in the Canon camp, but my personal preference is still Nikon's ergonomics. Just got a GH-1 5 days ago and will eagerly wait for Nikon to catch up. And they better do it real soon as I can imagine quite a number of D200/D300/D700 users jumping ship.

Daniel L.
05-26-2009, 09:20 PM
It's still one of the hardest cameras to buy. Been back ordered and out of stock at B&H since December. Stock seems to lasts for maybe 10-20 min a time.

I hear the best place to look is Best Buy.

Finster
05-26-2009, 09:24 PM
Adorama has it in stock. (http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM2.html?searchinfo=canon+5d+mark+ii)

Kholi
05-26-2009, 09:27 PM
Several places have them in stock. BH I dunno about, but there's plenty of places to buy.

ChipG
05-26-2009, 09:28 PM
It's still one of the hardest cameras to buy. Been back ordered and out of stock at B&H since December. Stock seems to lasts for maybe 10-20 min a time.

I hear the best place to look is Best Buy.

Most the Best Buy's in the midwest don't stock it, probably in LA and NY. Wonder if you can get one off the Best Buy online website?

Checking........

Yep, bestbuy.com says in stock and it will ship in 24 hours.

squig
05-26-2009, 09:29 PM
squig,

I can picture you about this time next year on here still waiting for that next camera :p

yeah yeah laugh it up. I'll always be looking for the next camera but in a couple of weeks the waiting will be over and I can start location scouting.

John Caballero
05-26-2009, 09:33 PM
Awsome Canon. Only one tiny bit more. Give the choice of 24p to the 30p. That shouldn't be hard to do. There will be even more ecstatic folk out there. No conversion needed in post for a wonderful cinematic look.

The Scarlet is about to suffer a very severe blow. Although it will also be a very severe blow to Canon HD video cameras. What a wonderful time to be in this imaging business.

squig
05-26-2009, 09:34 PM
kholi has the right idea shooting with the 5D and a GH1. The GH1 with its AF tracking would be really handy for stabilizer work not to mention lower fat jello and even more lens options......which reminds me I just bought a c mount anamorphic lens for the GH1 doh! Don't know if I can stretch the budget far enough to get both.

chris f
05-26-2009, 09:34 PM
hmmm looks like we're inching closer and closer to the ideal camera. Take the 5D and add the 24p and auto focus of the EH-1 and we're there (an xlr input would be icing on the cake). I've started my DSLR fund for a Fall '09 purchase, selling my Nikon D70 set up this week to add to the fund. My beloved DVX is going next. Can't wait to see what's around in a few months.

Tony_Reyes
05-26-2009, 09:36 PM
I got mine from B&H a few weeks ago and it was in stock for 15 minutes or so. I jumped on it. I tried doing the email thing where they notify you but it never seemed to be accurate and they only notified me once...when I already had the camera, HA.

Kholi
05-26-2009, 10:05 PM
kholi has the right idea shooting with the 5D and a GH1. The GH1 with its AF tracking would be really handy for stabilizer work not to mention lower fat jello and even more lens options......which reminds me I just bought a c mount anamorphic lens for the GH1 doh! Don't know if I can stretch the budget far enough to get both.

Sorry, you got me wrong. I'm gonna buy an MKii and rent it to let it pay itself off. Free toy.

I'm going to use the GH-1's for everything else.

Might whip out the MKii when I need to shoot ultra lowlight with no lighting around. Or for scenery. The old JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS look is pretty cool for nature.

dadoboy
05-26-2009, 10:07 PM
Ah no, I'm a renter, not a buyer. Video cameras and now VDSLRs change way too fast and I'm afraid I'd lose too much on depreciation. I will buy lenses though - seriously I am saving up for some RPPs cuz I can use them on film cameras and the REDs.

You can rent Canon 5D's from Samys for $200 / day which is probably very profitable for them since the camera is only $2500 bucks. They're like making 10% back on each rental, plus the lens rentals they get on top of that must make give them bank!

Kholi
05-26-2009, 10:09 PM
Ah no, I'm a renter, not a buyer. Video cameras and now VDSLRs change way too fast and I'm afraid I'd lose too much on depreciation. I will buy lenses though - seriously I am saving up for some RPPs cuz I can use them on film cameras and the REDs.

You can rent Canon 5D's from Samys for $200 / day which is probably very profitable for them since the camera is only $2500 bucks. They're like making 10% back on each rental, plus the lens rentals they get on top of that must make give them bank!

I <3 dadoboy. And you're in LA! Sweet.

Need a kit with glass and everything out the wazoo? =D

I will has MKii for y00. Me rent with all good things, filters and all, better than Samy's. We make friend.

dadoboy
05-26-2009, 10:16 PM
I'll hit you up Kholi when ready this summer. Director is considering RED vs. Arri III vs. Canon EOS 5D (right now told him about the firmware update) all comes down to how much those damn locations cost and you know how bad that can get in LA. You can rent 5D thing for sure. You should put up a webpage like Tim Naylor does, make it legit.

Kholi
05-26-2009, 10:20 PM
I'll hit you up Kholi when ready this summer. Director is considering RED vs. Arri III vs. Canon EOS 5D (right now told him about the firmware update) all comes down to how much those damn locations cost and you know how bad that can get in LA. You can rent 5D thing for sure. You should put up a webpage like Tim Naylor does, make it legit.

Webpage?PFFFT. I only rent to people I trust. My stuff doesn't get used by randoms. How do you think it stays useable for so long? LoL

The rental business is garbage. People will destroy your stuff and not think twice. My first HVX200 fell victim to this, won't do it again.

Our RED's are pristine and taken care of. Not a bit of lost footage. They fire up like they're supposed to, EVERYTHING works. I can't say the same for ANY rental house RED in LA.

I do rent, but it's not a public thing like that.

And yeah, it IS feature season. Locations are gonna be hard to snag on the cheap. I'm about to start tracking down some of our key locations and I don't anticipate them being low-budget friendly at all. Yipes.

squig
05-26-2009, 10:20 PM
It's a tough choice: the usability of the GH1 vs the low light perf and dynamic range of the MKII. I might have to consider the "free toy" option myself.

PappasArts
05-26-2009, 10:21 PM
Sorry, you got me wrong. I'm gonna buy an MKii and rent it to let it pay itself off. Free toy.

I'm going to use the GH-1's for everything else.

Might whip out the MKii when I need to shoot ultra lowlight with no lighting around. Or for scenery. The old JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS look is pretty cool for nature.


You won't last Kholi. Not even a day.......

You will be sending out your hot smooth blond, while hanging with your little herpes kinda rough at the edges chick ( that doesn't even speak English ), while all along obsessively thinking that someone has their hands all over your true love; the silky smooth over the top blond..... You'll end up renting the rough edged herpied out, and getting down with smoothie! More than you actual know at this point....................


Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms


Anamorphic DSLR Lens Test Images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
Myspace:
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts

Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }

.


.

Casalen
05-26-2009, 10:21 PM
Looks like I'm done predicting what companies will and won't do for a while.

Kholi
05-26-2009, 10:23 PM
You won't last Kholi. Not even a day.......

You will be sending out your hot smooth blond, while hanging with your little herpes kinda rough at the edges chick, while all along obsessively thinking that someone has their hands all over your true love; the the silky smooth over the top blond..... You'll end up renting the rough edged herpied out, and getting down with smoothie, more than you actual know at this point......

.


LOL. I misread you for a second and thought you were being mean about my girlfriend. >=T

Nah, but I really can't get with the hyper shallow imagery. I'm alright with the smaller sensor. APS-C sized might be nice, but for my own work I'm not too fond of VISTAVISION lookin' material.

Like, the MKii is for images like AUSTRALIA. Where just about every single shot is wide and expansive. Reminds me of old school claymation movies.

I'll be good shooting 2 x GH-1's on everything. But will LOVE the stills from the MKii much more than I could ever on the GH-1.

Daniel L.
05-26-2009, 10:34 PM
Would hate to see this turn into another GH1 vs 5D section.

Alan Bradley
05-26-2009, 10:36 PM
WOW!!!
I just s&%t kittens reading this!
BTW- alot of local shops have the Mark II in stock. I swung by one in Sac a couple weeks ago and scored one. They still have 'em. At least they did....
Great depression does bring about re-emphasis on the consumer and their choosy dollar. And the fat gets trimmed off...those left standing MUST adapt or suffer similar fates as those already lost to the economic crisis.
At least we got a carrot now.

squig
05-26-2009, 10:37 PM
I might have just scored a $1000 job shooting some stills with a 5D hehe

squig
05-26-2009, 10:40 PM
I'm thinking if I shoot anamorphic with the 5D I can squash it rather than stretch it to get a better image and maybe lessen the aliasing

dadoboy
05-26-2009, 10:42 PM
Kholi brings up a good point about shallow focus. You're going to have a much easier time pulling focus (if there's someone to pull focus) on the GH1 focal lengths (around 12mm-140mm) than on the Mk2 (24mm - 280mm) especially in low light.

PappasArts
05-26-2009, 10:42 PM
I might have just scored a $1000 job shooting some stills with a 5D hehe


And Ed MCmahon is at your front door with a check too!

JK.......LOL

booggerg2
05-26-2009, 10:43 PM
Yes I think Canon will give us 24P/25P on the 5D2.. seeing how they are taking shots at Red with the "epic" poster.. They will soon announce 24P/25P as additional feature "changes" to the firmware (taking a page from Red's marketing book) but distinguishing itself in that Canon will actually deliver all the promised features in time as opposed to beating around the bush like Red.


Kholi brings up a good point about shallow focus. You're going to have a much easier time pulling focus (if there's someone to pull focus) on the GH1 focal lengths (around 12mm-140mm) than on the Mk2 (24mm - 280mm) especially in low light.

True, but you can reduce aperture on the 5D2 and bump up the ISO, which is vastly limited on the GH1...

Daniel L.
05-26-2009, 10:47 PM
Kholi brings up a good point about shallow focus. You're going to have a much easier time pulling focus (if there's someone to pull focus) on the GH1 focal lengths (around 12mm-140mm) than on the Mk2 (24mm - 280mm) especially in low light.

Close the aperture and your depth of field will be just as deep as on the GH1. The sensitivity of the 5D will easily make up for the light loss. Nobody is making you shoot at f/1.4, but it's always nice to have that creative option for when want it.

ChipG
05-26-2009, 10:54 PM
Would hate to see this turn into another GH1 vs 5D section.

They'll show up June 2 if not sooner to get the word out it's-a-comin'. :thumbup:

dadoboy
05-26-2009, 10:58 PM
Yep. true. The 5D has greater low light sensitivity.

PappasArts
05-26-2009, 10:58 PM
They'll show up June 2 if not sooner to get the word out it's-a-comin'. :thumbup:

I look forward to seeing that too.........

Kholi
05-26-2009, 11:05 PM
Yeah, anyone concerned about focus pulling can simply close down the iris. The only way this becomes an issue is if your concerned with bokeh. Naturally, the bokeh changes when you start rolling your iris. From nice circles to hexagons to ninja starts.

But if you're like me, wtf gives a damn about Bokeh??? If someone's paying attention to your background and that's not your intent, you've got an issue.

My issue isn't specific to the 5D, but will be the same with any camera shooting Full Frame video: it just looks old. Like Vistavision. Odd. But it's a look and that's a look I'm gonna pay 2600.00 for to have in my arsenal as well.

Even if I don't use it myself, still awesome to have. Afterall, it is the better, faster, more robust 1080 image.

I'm brand agnostic and have always been a fan of Canon's Video Line-up. Gonna feel great to own an MKii. w00t.

squig
05-26-2009, 11:08 PM
woohoo! I landed the $1000 stills shoot. looks like I'm gonna buy a 5D next week. funny how the 5D firmware update gets announced and an hour later I get asked to do a stills shoot. A couple more of those and it's a "free toy". It's gonna be funny shooting stills on my vintage miller tripod.

morgan_moore
05-26-2009, 11:10 PM
Frame rate is needed - not because Im an artist looking for a look - but PALers need to avoid flicker

No mention of the ergonomics

You going to spin the 'proper controls' or dig through the menu

one thing I love about the 5d vs the Ex1 is the WB is locked and dialable right at your finger tips unlike the menu WB in the EX1 (AFAIK)

Rolling shutter - is still a problem - I dont mind leaning lamposts but has anyone actually looked at moving jello people - the jowls effect

I wonder if high shutter speeds and some interpolation between frames can sort this

S

Kholi
05-26-2009, 11:13 PM
Frame rate is needed - not because Im an artist looking for a look - but PALers need to avoid flicker

No mention of the ergonomics

You going to spin the 'proper controls' or dig through the menu

one thing I love about the 5d vs the Ex1 is the WB is locked and dialable right at your finger tips unlike the menu WB in the EX1 (AFAIK)

Rolling shutter - is still a problem - I dont mind leaning lamposts but has anyone actually looked at moving jello people - the jowls effect

I wonder if high shutter speeds and some interpolation between frames can sort this

S

Unfortunately, high shutter doesn't help. =T You can sort of trick the eye by remaining on wider lenses for those sorts of shots.

morgan_moore
05-26-2009, 11:21 PM
How can a high shutter not help

if the exposure is completed in say 1/500th of a second then there is no time for stuff to bend

or does the camera take a pile of 'slices' at 1/500th spread over an duration of X time (1/30th?) the slices then being piled together to create a single frame ?

S

Kholi
05-26-2009, 11:24 PM
Try it and see.

Open your Nikon Iris all the way, turn the camera into a bright light, set it.

Wave it around.

BradM
05-26-2009, 11:50 PM
because of the lack of blur it even seems a bit worse at real high shutter speeds.


great news on the firmware woohoo !!!:dankk2:

KREEDMAN
05-27-2009, 12:22 AM
O M G !!

Just when I was about to get the EX1 !!

I will mostly be doing footage that will only end up on PAL DVDs...is it safe now to get the 5D?

morgan_moore
05-27-2009, 12:40 AM
NO - retiming can still do funny stuff

---

Firmware

I just had a thought - canon couldnt be doing something 'evil' could they ?

like 'lens error' when a non eos lens is in place

They could shroud it in 'aperture control wont work if we dont know the aperture'

S

squig
05-27-2009, 01:21 AM
The big problem for us in the PAL/50hz world is that the slowest shutter speed in this firmware update is 1/30. So how are we supposed to lock onto 50hz scrolling waves? Canon talks about listening to the requests from indie filmmakers but doesn't give us 24p and even worse completely ignores the rest of the world outside of the US and Japan.

While I love the picture from the 5D I don't have control over all of the lighting in my film so I might have to stick with the GH1 until a better 24/25p option comes along.

Kholi
05-27-2009, 01:26 AM
The big problem for us in the PAL/50hz world is that the slowest shutter speed in this firmware update is 1/30. So how are we supposed to lock onto 50hz scrolling waves? Canon talks about listening to the requests from indie filmmakers but doesn't give us 24p and even worse completely ignores the rest of the world outside of the US and Japan.

While I love the picture from the 5D I don't have control over all of the lighting in my film so I might have to stick with the GH1 until a better 24/25p option comes along.

Was that a flip or a flop?

KREEDMAN
05-27-2009, 01:31 AM
So I'm back to get an EX1 :( ? I thought I might save some cash....

Unless 24p/25p comes out . . . .

squig
05-27-2009, 02:01 AM
Was that a flip or a flop?

just common sense.....at least with the D90 I could pan around and lock onto 50hz waves, it's just not an option with the 5D.

and don't taunt me....it's really frustrating for most of the indie filmmaking world

SPZ
05-27-2009, 02:32 AM
Maybe there's a 50 shutter, or a sinchro Scan option. This would help...

Rakesh Jacob
05-27-2009, 02:37 AM
HOLY F**K!!!!! I was busy all day yesterday and missed this...

WOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

daveswan
05-27-2009, 02:41 AM
Yay! Result!
This puts my purchase timescale forward....oh dear, my poor bank balance!
Dave

klas
05-27-2009, 02:54 AM
The big problem for us in the PAL/50hz world is that the slowest shutter speed in this firmware update is 1/30. So how are we supposed to lock onto 50hz scrolling waves? Canon talks about listening to the requests from indie filmmakers but doesn't give us 24p and even worse completely ignores the rest of the world outside of the US and Japan.

While I love the picture from the 5D I don't have control over all of the lighting in my film so I might have to stick with the GH1 until a better 24/25p option comes along.

Well, 1/50th and increments of 25 (50hz) will do. (1/50, 1/75, 1/100, etc)

EDIT: I used to own a ntsc XL1s, and I could easily fix the flickering with shuttercontrol.

klas
05-27-2009, 02:59 AM
They could shroud it in 'aperture control wont work if we dont know the aperture
If they did that, an adapter with focus confirmation chip would override that anyway.

squig
05-27-2009, 03:22 AM
I'm flipping

Zephyrnoid
05-27-2009, 03:32 AM
The big problem for us in the PAL/50hz world is that the slowest shutter speed in this firmware update is 1/30. So how are we supposed to lock onto 50hz scrolling waves? Canon talks about listening to the requests from indie filmmakers but doesn't give us 24p and even worse completely ignores the rest of the world outside of the US and Japan.

While I love the picture from the 5D I don't have control over all of the lighting in my film so I might have to stick with the GH1 until a better 24/25p option comes along.

I'll bet even money that 24/25p will appear in a hardware upgrade:thumbup: Holding out myself, even though I am an NTSC user

squig
05-27-2009, 03:36 AM
If canon don't maybe that Hudson dude will do it in a hack.....although it appears that there might be some kind of hardware limitation

PappasArts
05-27-2009, 03:59 AM
[QUOTE=Kholi;1647432

My issue isn't specific to the 5D, but will be the same with any camera shooting Full Frame video: it just looks old. Like Vistavision. Odd. .[/QUOTE]

Kholi, you need to elaborate more. I'm curious about your observational approach to this subject.

Photographers all around the world shoot full frame to medium format stills; and those images plaster our mags to billboards. They don't look like old frames of old pictures.... 2001 doesn't look old, and it was shot on 65mm film that has a very large frame; much large than S35. It doesn't look old.

The APS-C sensor is perfect though. It's just in the middle between the FF to the S16. In the end, all is good. Can't complain, the GH1 is awesome and the 5D is awesome.

squig
05-27-2009, 04:04 AM
I second that request

jfro
05-27-2009, 04:49 AM
I'm thinking of a 2nd 5D MKII or the Gh1. One of my considerations is for long interviews or shoots where the 12 minute HD limit on the 5D causes problems.

On the 5D MKII, when it runs into the file size limit, the shutter goes KABOOM and the noise is picked up by the other mics/ cameras. That's a problem.

Can anyone tell me how long you can continuously shoot in 1920x1080 on the GH1?
When it stops, do you hear the shutter close?

Any thoughts on color balance and exposure matching between the two cameras?

As to the Canon announcement, what a nice surprise. Took awhile, but yippee. Let's hope if they don't give us audio control, Hudson will still get his audio hack out there for us to use. Interesting timing as he planned on releasing it next weekend. Like his hack was coming out June 2 or 3, vs Canon's June 1 release update. My guess is they won't have had time to lock him out so we may still get Hudson audio hack if Canon hasn't addressed that also.

I have not seen the official canon release. Has anyone seen anything about audio control?

SPZ
05-27-2009, 04:56 AM
As tempting as this is, after much consideration and checking my wallet, I decided to wait for the camcorder version of the 5d MarkII. I'll wait untill October to make the purchase decision, and buy whatever is best by then. I'm satisfied with my HVX200+ Brevis combo for now.

Joe Shaw
05-27-2009, 05:05 AM
Can anyone tell me how long you can continuously shoot in 1920x1080 on the GH1?
When it stops, do you hear the shutter close?



The PAL version has a maximum recording time of 30mins. I think I read that the NTSC version can shoot until the card is full.

With regards to shutter, it has a leaf shutter that should be quieter than the 5D, but without comparing hard to know.

BMFM FILMS
05-27-2009, 06:01 AM
Well there goes the hackers efforts!.but holy crap!!! FINALLLY!!! YEY!!

holyzoo
05-27-2009, 06:02 AM
It's still one of the hardest cameras to buy. Been back ordered and out of stock at B&H since December. Stock seems to lasts for maybe 10-20 min a time.

I hear the best place to look is Best Buy.

I don't know if this link was mentioned here at all...

This is how I got my hands on a 5DMkII and extra battery from BHphoto.

http://www.nowinstock.net/digitalcameras/canon5dmarkii/

That site blows away any email BHPhoto will send you. In fact BHphoto NEVER sent an in-stock email on the 5D to me, despite entering it several times.

And regarding people comments on "time to sell all the Nikon glass". Why not keep some. I still like the physical aperture control. And nobody's confirmed that the 5DMkII won't barf on you if you throw it in manual aperture mode. I bet the camera wants to control it for you. I'll be waiting to see how this gets implemented before I sell off my Nikons.

Zak Forsman
05-27-2009, 06:06 AM
No getting personal. I've deleted the offending posts. Let's drop it and move the discussion forward. :)

squig
05-27-2009, 06:17 AM
hehe "now I am the master " zak, funny how you mentioned the dream digital cinema cam and a couple of hours later the 5D got a lot more enticing. keep talking OB1 maybe nikon will announce the D400 too.

Zak Forsman
05-27-2009, 06:23 AM
zak, funny how you mentioned the dream digital cinema cam and a couple of hours later the 5D got a lot more enticing. keep talking OB1 maybe nikon will announce the D400 too.

I know, right? i'll come up with something absurdly insane to say a little later.... who knows? maybe Scarlets will start falling out of the sky?

BMFM FILMS
05-27-2009, 06:28 AM
Ok, now it's nikon's turn...Either a D400, or they give the D90 a firmware update for crying out loud. My wallet couldn't bare the thought of paying 3x more for a 5D...(i was just cheering but realized I can't afford it hehe).

ChipG
05-27-2009, 06:52 AM
Ok, now it's nikon's turn...Either a D400, or they give the D90 a firmware update for crying out loud. My wallet couldn't bare the thought of paying 3x more for a 5D...(i was just cheering but realized I can't afford it hehe).

I wouldn't expect firmware updates on cameras costing under $1k or atleast not major updates, they'll make you buy the next model to get the big features, thier margins are to slim.

BMFM FILMS
05-27-2009, 07:05 AM
Then at least a D400...just so I can avoid switching brands.

FatDaddy
05-27-2009, 07:07 AM
I think if the D400 comes out with an articulating screen (that should be a yes), controlled audio, manual video controls, HDMI full res out and some of the sensor issues with the D90 worked out on the next chip set etc., then it will do well.

What a sweet time to be telling visual stories!

PaPa
05-27-2009, 07:43 AM
wow, this is all really exciting. I can't wait to see what happens by the end of the summer. Great news.

marco0782
05-27-2009, 07:45 AM
Full frame video doesn't look old, it looks new.


Marco

Bebel
05-27-2009, 07:53 AM
You made my day :thumbsup:

johney5
05-27-2009, 09:10 AM
I have a shoot this weekend.....holycow...and I can't reschedule. Any advanced versions of the firmware floating around? has anyone checked anywhere???? PLEASE????? PRETTY PLEASE?

Kholi
05-27-2009, 09:57 AM
Kholi, you need to elaborate more. I'm curious about your observational approach to this subject.

Photographers all around the world shoot full frame to medium format stills; and those images plaster our mags to billboards. They don't look like old frames of old pictures.... 2001 doesn't look old, and it was shot on 65mm film that has a very large frame; much large than S35. It doesn't look old.

The APS-C sensor is perfect though. It's just in the middle between the FF to the S16. In the end, all is good. Can't complain, the GH1 is awesome and the 5D is awesome.

Yeah has nothing to do with want camera. I didn't like full frame on 35mm adapter either. Looked silly to me. Still does.

Phoography is one thing. Also I think it's great for landscapes and documentary. To narrative though it draws too much attention from my eyes that everything is out of focus but this one little point. And right, you can stop down.

Seems like it would make I a little harder to light naturally. While David Mullens ASC has different reasons for being apprehensive about full frame cinematography he too isn't jumping in am has reservations.

The full frame aesthetic will be great for a lot of people and projects. I welcome it into my arsenal with open arms for certain projects or shots that can benefit from it. It's jsut my personal opinion on the visual for constantly moving images.

Boz
05-27-2009, 10:24 AM
Color me confused, Kholi. Over in another thread basically said if you had to choose GH1 or 5Dii you'd choose 5Dii. (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1647465&postcount=81) Yet in this thread you're saying you don't like 5Dii full frame look and that you'll stick with the GH1. Care to clarify?

Ian-T
05-27-2009, 10:32 AM
Hmmm...seems like he's saying he would choose it for it's light sensitivity, colors reproduction and overall clean image over the shallow DOF to me. I agree with him about the hyper DOF...I always and still hated that look (it's excellent for portraits though). I'm thinking of jumping ship myself to the Canon (not sure yet) but not for its DOF...no way. The GH-1 is plenty enough for me in that regards. I might just get both...who knows. But I do want the ability to obtain the best fidelity picture possible. it seems the codec in the 5D is super-badd (that's B, A, double D good).

Kholi
05-27-2009, 10:32 AM
here's my exact quote:


LoL Boz. Yeah. Cameras get out of hand.

If I hadn't bought one yet I'd get the MKii! Manual Controls, easy to convert to 24P, better 1080.

But that's not the case. Haha. So for anyone who hasn't purchase a camera yet, I'd say the MKii takes the trophy for image. Since then, though, I've learned that image isn't everything. So yeah, if I hadn't bought a GH-1 and I could only have one or the other at the time it would have been an MKii.

I recommend those on the fence go MKii as well, that way they're satisfied with a great 1080P that's easy to acquire.

Kholi
05-27-2009, 10:33 AM
The GH-1 is plenty enough for me in that regards. But I do want the ability to obtain the best fidelity picture possible. it seems the codec in the 5D is super-badd (that's B, A, double D good).

Exactly. I would recommend that those seeking the best image on a technical level go for the MKii.

Ian gets it.

Boz
05-27-2009, 10:49 AM
Thanks for clearing that up.

BTW, you guys seen this clip? http://www.vimeo.com/3793978 I think it's the most cinematic clip I've ever seen on from the 5Dii.

Sumfun
05-27-2009, 10:54 AM
I think if the D400 comes out with an articulating screen (that should be a yes), controlled audio, manual video controls, HDMI full res out and some of the sensor issues with the D90 worked out on the next chip set etc., then it will do well.

What a sweet time to be telling visual stories!

If Nikon can't do AT LEAST that much, then they might as well not release the D400. Or make it stills only and offer a lower price. They need to leapfrog Canon and Panasonic, or there won't be that much interest.

daveswan
05-27-2009, 10:59 AM
I'm not that fussed what Nikon do, I'm not a Canon fanboy by any means, but I still intend to go 5DII when finances permit.
Now I can keep my L glass, including my 135 f/2.0, wonderful lens!
Still going to buy me some Leica R primes though :)
Dave

Kholi
05-27-2009, 11:00 AM
Thanks for clearing that up.

BTW, you guys seen this clip? http://www.vimeo.com/3793978 I think it's the most cinematic clip I've ever seen on from the 5Dii.

Yeah I've seen it. Image itself looks great. Pretty cinematic on a fundamental level.

Ian-T
05-27-2009, 11:14 AM
I dunno. Not sure if i like the color correction though...but it does have a cinematic feel to it.

morgan_moore
05-27-2009, 11:15 AM
If you take the middle 720 out of a 5d do you not get exactly the same perspective as red/gh1/film and still a quality that probably plonks the GH1

pretty easy in FCP and allows some very smooth panning/headroom control in post

S

Kholi
05-27-2009, 11:24 AM
If you take the middle 720 out of a 5d do you not get exactly the same perspective as red/gh1/film and still a quality that probably plonks the GH1

pretty easy in FCP and allows some very smooth panning/headroom control in post

S

You try it and let us know how it turns out.

stoiqa
05-27-2009, 11:25 AM
addicts....nice job everyone :)

phoric
05-27-2009, 11:38 AM
Glad I sold all of my Letus gear before the market gets swamped!

morgan_moore
05-27-2009, 11:43 AM
You try it and let us know how it turns out.

I dont have time/gh1 but a small sensor is exactly the same as a part of a large sensor in terms of perspective and DOF

A further comment on the format and razor thin DOF

I think in my business 'representing life' being able to blur the un aethetic bits is a strong tool, if you are in a scouted location with a subsequntly dressed set the smaller look can be better

many films have sets that just dont have the clutter of life

S

Kholi
05-27-2009, 11:48 AM
I dont have time/gh1 but a small sensor is exactly the same as a part of a large sensor in terms of perspective and DOF

S


That's not what I would be concerned about.

The process would be dropping 1080 into a 720 frame first off. Cropping, to be exact.

You would have to mostly frame so that it turned out properly. Shooting without a guideline then scaling THEN cropping may introduce more aliasing than already present in the footage.

I don't think there would be any issues with artifacts because you're not blowing it up to 720, you're just cropping out of a 1080. Just dunno what else you could face with that method.

So theoretically valid. Only a test will tell. Ideally GH-1 @ 720 and MKii cropped to 720 in post, same subject, near-to-same settings.

morgan_moore
05-27-2009, 11:52 AM
I mean just sticking some tape over the screen and composing/shooting the middle - cropping

S

Kholi
05-27-2009, 11:57 AM
It's defiitely a good idea, one that I hadn't considered. THanks for sharing. GOnna have to try this out.

Funny, because you can also use glass that doesn't cover the fUll frame with this method.

Good one.

Nitsuj
05-27-2009, 12:01 PM
I have seen people do this method by putting rubber bands on the LCD

TimurCivan
05-27-2009, 12:05 PM
Good news indeed, though I'll still be ordering a GH1 for 24p and variable frame rates, without which I highly doubt we'd be seeing this firmware upgrade to begin with!

24p is coming. ;)

Kholi
05-27-2009, 12:09 PM
24p is coming. ;)

This man is right. Question is: how much is it gonna cost and what's the turn-around time after you send in your camera?

=X

morgan_moore
05-27-2009, 12:15 PM
24p ? is there a source for this info

S

TimurCivan
05-27-2009, 12:16 PM
1st hand account from a top end DP.

BradM
05-27-2009, 12:21 PM
24p is coming. ;)


yes this would be even greater news:thumbup:

ecking
05-27-2009, 12:23 PM
1st hand account from a top end DP.

Which DP?

TimurCivan
05-27-2009, 12:28 PM
hehe... he shoots a VERY VERY popular network adventure show.

Ian-T
05-27-2009, 12:44 PM
I mean just sticking some tape over the screen and composing/shooting the middle - cropping

S
I do that with my HV20.

JoeKavalier
05-27-2009, 01:00 PM
hehe... he shoots a VERY VERY popular network adventure show.
You know the DP to Xena: Warrior Princess!?!?!??!?!

Spread the good news man!

PappasArts
05-27-2009, 01:52 PM
hehe... he shoots a VERY VERY popular network adventure show.


What would be the reason Canon is delaying the announcement of the 24FPS update?

This does coincide with rumors in town ( LA ) of 5D MII's with enabled 24fps; just trying to understand the logic why it didn't come with the June 2nd release.



Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms


Anamorphic DSLR Lens Test Images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
Myspace:
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts

Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }




.

Coco Bermudez
05-27-2009, 01:54 PM
This man is right. Question is: how much is it gonna cost and what's the turn-around time after you send in your camera?

=X

If they can't do 24p via firmaware..i am not sending my camera anywhere!....
Last time I sent my XL1 for a minor upgrade it took almost two months to get it back...with the money i spent renting another one, I could have purchased a second one!

TimurCivan
05-27-2009, 02:29 PM
they are beta testing it... its not ready yet.

PappasArts
05-27-2009, 02:55 PM
If they can't do 24p via firmaware..i am not sending my camera anywhere!....
Last time I sent my XL1 for a minor upgrade it took almost two months to get it back...with the money i spent renting another one, I could have purchased a second one!

It's firmware, not hardware..

PappasArts
05-27-2009, 03:01 PM
they are beta testing it... its not ready yet.


Makes sense.

Like I said, heard about this in the LA community, so it's a matter of time.


Thanks Tim!

cinebuddy
05-27-2009, 03:42 PM
Impulse cinebuddy picked a winner for once!

squig
05-27-2009, 04:39 PM
Hmmm...seems like he's saying he would choose it for it's light sensitivity, colors reproduction and overall clean image over the shallow DOF to me. I agree with him about the hyper DOF...I always and still hated that look (it's excellent for portraits though). I'm thinking of jumping ship myself to the Canon (not sure yet) but not for its DOF...no way. The GH-1 is plenty enough for me in that regards. I might just get both...who knows. But I do want the ability to obtain the best fidelity picture possible. it seems the codec in the 5D is super-badd (that's B, A, double D good).

both lol your wife will murder you! It's a really tough decision and the question remains will nikon step in and make it an easier or harder one.

squig
05-27-2009, 04:47 PM
Exactly. I would recommend that those seeking the best image on a technical level go for the MKii.

Ian gets it.

Then you have to consider the advantages of the GH1

AF auto tracking
flip out LCD
smaller/lighter
cheaper
24/25p
more lens options
crop factor

I'd be more easily swayed if the MKII was 24p or the GH1 codec was more robust. both are still slightly crippled for my money which is not to say I won't buy one.

dcarstens
05-27-2009, 04:48 PM
hehe... he shoots a VERY VERY popular network adventure show.

I'm guessing Rodney Charters of "24"? I know he's been playing with more than a few 5Ds...

ydgmdlu
05-27-2009, 04:49 PM
both lol your wife will murder you! It's a really tough decision and the question remains will nikon step in and make it an easier or harder one.
Easier one, I bet. Just comparing the 5D and the D90, Canon was obviously more serious about the video capability than Nikon. And with this firmware, the proof is in the pudding. The rumored D400 will be better than the D90, but I think that some people are expecting everything from it, and that's just not realistic.

Alan Bradley
05-27-2009, 04:58 PM
LOL! I love all the wife references! My D90 magically morphed into a 5D Mark II a few months back. Now everytime I pull it out, I make an Ashton Kutcher crack right before I take the lens cap off. My wife giggles in glee/teenage fan girl hysteria.

Ahhh.....

Daniel L.
05-27-2009, 04:58 PM
Advantages of the 5D
* Full frame sensor
* Live HDMI out while recording
* No crop factor (or just crop it yourself)
* Fantastic codec
* Sharp as a tac
* Better low light performance
* High dynamic range
* Well saturated colors
* 21MP stills
* Powerful CPU

Thanks to Hudson..
* On screen audio levels
* Manual audio gain
* Zebra
* Crop lines for set aspect ratio
* More on the way...

Finally, looks like good sources say 24p is coming too...

Ian-T
05-27-2009, 05:04 PM
I'm guessing Rodney Charters of "24"? I know he's been playing with more than a few 5Ds...That's exacty who I was thinking about.

squig
05-27-2009, 05:05 PM
So is 24p a hardware update? I would think that it is otherwise it would have been added to the firmware update would it not. If that's the case I might get a GH1 to play with for a while until canon starts shipping a 24p MKII.

I've been thinking about the frame cropping option myself but instead of just cropping I'll be shooting anamorphic and squashing rather than stretching the frame so I'd end up with a 1720x720 2.39:1 frame.

Daniel L.
05-27-2009, 05:07 PM
they are beta testing it... its not ready yet.

At least, that's the word. No reason it can't be just a firmware update.

PappasArts
05-27-2009, 05:20 PM
That's exacty who I was thinking about.

Indeed Rodney is:

Rodney Charters, the DP for the tv series "24", used a total of FIVE, 5D mkII's on the set of the new CBS pilot, "Washington Field" (production wrapped April 7). They planned on using all five of them to run continuously during the takes and provide different POV's, in addition to what was being shot by the main unit. Rodney also said that the 5D would be used for creating a variety of "plates" (i.e. background footage in driving scenes in studio).

Complete interview at : http://www.fxguide.com/redcentre

Behind-scenes videos.

http://washingtonfield.wordpress.com/

NAB SHOW DAILY:

http://nabshowdaily.com/TuesdayEdition/79644




Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms


Anamorphic DSLR Lens Test Images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
Myspace:
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts

Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }

.

Ian-T
05-27-2009, 05:26 PM
Did not know that. I know he uses the Red camera personally due to an interview I read last year on him praising it. But wow. It seems I'm also starting to believe those rumors of the 5D on the set of the upcoming Iron Man movie. Supposedly those cams were tweaked...which now makes sense with this firmware update and all.

PappasArts
05-27-2009, 05:33 PM
So is 24p a hardware update? I would think that it is otherwise it would have been added to the firmware update would it not. If that's the case I might get a GH1 to play with for a while until canon starts shipping a 24p MKII.

I've been thinking about the frame cropping option myself but instead of just cropping I'll be shooting anamorphic and squashing rather than stretching the frame so I'd end up with a 1720x720 2.39:1 frame.

Cause they want it work with no flaws.... Second, if they call it 24P, which they should just call it 24fps, they will need to do an agreement on the 5D with FilmLook company who owns that 24P name use. Then the delay could just be a legal one to get the usage contract complete.

Anyhow, 24FPS is coming for the Mark II. Patience....

Phil Holland
05-27-2009, 05:40 PM
The reality of the situation is that last year the 5D Mark II did indeed have a manual control prior to release and was tested with different frame rates. If they decide to update the firmware to support a 24p encode on the 5D Mark II will be the real question. It is most certainly possible and has been done previously.

I imagine Canon who makes consumer through professional grade video cameras didn't want to compete with itself in selling such a device. Specifically in the prosumer market with their HD cameras that actually cost a bit more than a basic 5D Mark II package.

I believe that in this particular market due to the economy they can sell more cameras and profit by adding these features versus releases a specific new video body with EF lens support.

The more interesting concept to me will be the next 1 series body and how they will approach the feature set in a camera that will be 1.5x to 2x more expensive than the 5D Mark II.

I'd bet good money on some sort of over/under cranking ability as well perhaps XLR support for audio, or perhaps some sort of attachment to have a bit more control over audio.

Lee Wilson
05-27-2009, 06:12 PM
Advantages of the 5D
* Full frame sensor
* Live HDMI out while recording
* No crop factor (or just crop it yourself)
* Fantastic codec
* Sharp as a tac
* Better low light performance
* High dynamic range
* Well saturated colors
* 21MP stills
* Powerful CPU

Thanks to Hudson..
* On screen audio levels
* Manual audio gain
* Zebra
* Crop lines for set aspect ratio
* More on the way...

Finally, looks like good sources say 24p is coming too...

A couple of mistakes. . . . .

* Live HDMI out while recording = no
* Manual audio gain = no

squig
05-27-2009, 06:16 PM
no live out at all while recording? composite?

Daniel L.
05-27-2009, 06:45 PM
A couple of mistakes. . . . .

* Live HDMI out while recording = no
* Manual audio gain = no

Lee,
I have been using live HDMI while recording since December 08. Composite works too but the quality is considerably lower...

Hudson is implementing manual audio gain, should see the first release soon.

Ian-T
05-27-2009, 07:11 PM
It's not full 1080p HDMI right?

Daniel L.
05-27-2009, 07:25 PM
Unfortunately, no it's not. The resolution switches over to 480P. SDMI ;)

There is a chance Hudson can do something about that, we will have to wait and see.

Meanwhile, It's not terrible. Looks better than composite, incredibly useful for focus and framing. Far better than nothing. I use it most often on a should rig for an LCD monitor on an arm. Also allows for routine steadicam operation. Live HDMI is very valuable to me.

squig
05-27-2009, 07:53 PM
what LCD monitor are you using?

Dzip
05-27-2009, 08:15 PM
I'm on the edge of my seat as Hudson Indie Jones is in the temple, just about to figure out the combination to get in the master chamber, where he will find the Holy Grail (1080P24fps RAW!)... Of course, I'm daydreaming, this is not a rumour.

Daniel L.
05-27-2009, 08:47 PM
what LCD monitor are you using?
By recommendation, ikan v8000. Not sure if I'm very happy with it overall but it will do for now.

Also have a bit of a correction. On the upcoming release from Hudson, gain will be fixed. You will need a mixer, which is probably a good idea anyway. I don't expect the 5D to have a great audio circuit.

shiny4
05-28-2009, 12:24 AM
do you think that the manual control will works also with lenses differents from canon like nikon with lens adapter or only with canon lenses?i think that this firmware is for selling more canon lenses but i hope that we can still use the lense that we love.

morgan_moore
05-28-2009, 12:30 AM
this is indeed something I questioned a couple of pages back

could be a dirty trick : 'error no lens'

EDIT: that would be the corporate approach, but it wouldnt put off Hudson and the like - I think in these times of the net and the economy corporates have to bend to thier customers - so hope is there

S

Tony_Reyes
05-28-2009, 12:34 AM
That would be rough. I jumped on boat and bought a Nikon mount 50mm Zeiss lens (love it).

General question...
A friend of mine told me if I started buying wider lenses and using adapters my back focus would get worse. Is their any validity to this?

I've already been paranoid looking at my still images trying to find any issues and thinking I find one here and there relative to focus.

Kholi
05-28-2009, 12:36 AM
Backfocus will effect distance marks, close focus and infinite.

If you don't buy a proper adapter, your backfocus WILL be off. I can't stand getting an adapter that won't let me infinite focus.

Annoying as hell.

morgan_moore
05-28-2009, 12:42 AM
backfocus

is not the same issue as with GG adapters where the lens had to sit in the exact right spot focussed on the screen

poor adapter will make the distance marks wrong (are they ever right?)

a very poor adapter will lose infinity or close focus

I have a 14mm and $20 adapter - fine

S

Tony_Reyes
05-28-2009, 01:08 AM
I have the Kawa adapter and can definitely tell it's affecting the marks on the lens. Hmm...however yes I do agree when are the marks ever correct.

Christopher Barry
05-28-2009, 01:41 AM
Is a third party PL mount available for Canon? Thanks.

PappasArts
05-28-2009, 01:41 AM
however yes I do agree when are the marks ever correct.


Exactly correct..........Never!



.

daveswan
05-28-2009, 04:05 AM
You know what? I could care less about 24p. we want / need 25p and we want it now! Canon needs to wake up and realise there's more to the world than Japan / USA, and it uses 25 / 50 HZ, not 30 / 60 (Oh yes there's this funny drop frame kludge thing isn't there).

It should be a lot easier to process 25 fps than 30 fps, and assuming the same compression ratio there would be a lower data rate, hence a slightly longer recording time, or if the data rate was the same, a lower compression ratio, hence better quality.

And I don't want to hear specious arguments about it being harder than 30p, we had enough of those from Avid over the 720/25p debacle of hideous memory.
/rant
Dave

Lee Wilson
05-28-2009, 04:50 AM
And I don't want to hear specious arguments about it being harder than 30p

It might well be harder, the sensor may be hardwired to deal with 30fps, the LCD refresh rate may be hardwired for 30fps . . .

?

daveswan
05-28-2009, 05:00 AM
If it's hard wired it's hard wired and there's nothing we can do about it. BUT....part of my post was in response to Timur's assertion that 24p was do-able and coming. If 24p is do-able I don't see why 25p isn't either. The only reason I can see is a lazy parochialism that doesn't realise what most the the world needs.
Dave

booggerg2
05-28-2009, 07:27 AM
You know what? I could care less about 24p. we want / need 25p and we want it now! Canon needs to wake up and realise there's more to the world than Japan / USA, and it uses 25 / 50 HZ, not 30 / 60 (Oh yes there's this funny drop frame kludge thing isn't there).

You know wha? Canon could care less and frankly I could care less about PAL land. 24fps and it's all golden for me... :)

Daniel L.
05-28-2009, 07:28 AM
“The 5D MarkII will have 24p, it is already in a firmware running in testing. It was not released due to time but it was planned to be released with the manual control. This is not as easy as some people tend to believe. The codec data rate has 6 frames of spare bandwidth and the file size was still the same as the 30p in the cam I tested. They have to re-code the compression routine in order to run at full speed and not waste file size. This has introduced some problems in stability because the chip can only handle 30p natively and this is basically a hack. No Audio control planned or in the firmware as of yet. - canonrumors.com

Another rumor but they were right about the manual controls coming. Anyway, that's fantastic! That means that there is a good chance the codec and image quality will be enhanced with 24p. Sounds like we may be getting a higher data rate.

To clarify, it's the same data rate but since there are less frames, each one should contain more information.

daveswan
05-28-2009, 07:43 AM
You know wha? Canon could care less and frankly I could care less about PAL land. 24fps and it's all golden for me... :)

Typical.
You know what?
There are a damn sight more people in 25fps PAL / Secam than Never Twice the Same Colour
And we don't have to drop frames either.
/rant
Dave

Tracey Lee
05-28-2009, 08:11 AM
Typical.
You know what?
There are a damn sight more people in 25fps PAL / Secam than Never Twice the Same Colour
And we don't have to drop frames either.
/rant
Dave

I am not sure what you mean by what you wrote, but I don't know if you can fairly say that there are more indie film makers demanding 25p then there are those that want 24p. That's not something you can really weigh or judge.

puredrifting
05-28-2009, 08:14 AM
It seems that ignoring the 25p/50Hz market is not an intelligent marketing move considering it is almost the entire world except for NA and Japan.

Dan

Ian-T
05-28-2009, 08:25 AM
I understand folks in Pal land's issue with 25p but have some of you considered that there are many folks in Pal land who also prefer 24p over 25p for cinematic purposes. Maybe you don't give a hoot but to say that most of the world wants 25p is not really the case. Most of the world like who? Every day Joes? Sally's? Filmakers? Broadcasters?

squig
05-28-2009, 08:34 AM
I'll settle for either

morgan_moore
05-28-2009, 08:36 AM
In the UK there is the 'sales of goods act' which means a product can be 'rejected' if it is not 'fit for purpose'

The fact that the 5d may not work indoors makes it not 'fit for purpose' in the UK IMO

Trouble is even as is I have not felt the desire to 'reject' it even though I would have legal right to IMO

That is why 25 should come above 24

Obviously both would be nice

S

Coco Bermudez
05-28-2009, 08:58 AM
Everyone gets all up in arms saying that Canon needs to wake up and do this and that with the video capabilities of the camera.....

To be quite honest, we should feel lucky we get ANYTHING...I really don't think Canon ever thought that the 5D would be used the way it is being used. Maybe the video capability recording was aimed at photojournalist as a little gimmick and that's it.

Users like us have taken the camera to the next level by doing all sorts of tips and tricks. At the end of the day, Canon could just turn around and tell us..."you want the camera to have this and that and behave like a video camera?...then get a video camera!"

just my thoughts

by the way...can anyone tell me what are the bit rates the Canon 5d, Nikon d90 and Panasonic GH1 encode their data? I don't seem to find it anywhere...

Tracey Lee
05-28-2009, 09:04 AM
Everyone gets all up in arms saying that Canon needs to wake up and do this and that with the video capabilities of the camera.....

To be quite honest, we should feel lucky we get ANYTHING...I really don't think Canon ever thought that the 5D would be used the way it is being used. Maybe the video capability recording was aimed at photojournalist as a little gimmick and that's it.

Users like us have taken the camera to the next level by doing all sorts of tips and tricks. At the end of the day, Canon could just turn around and tell us..."you want the camera to have this and that and behave like a video camera?...then get a video camera!"

just my thoughts

by the way...can anyone tell me what are the bit rates the Canon 5d, Nikon d90 and Panasonic GH1 encode their data? I don't seem to find it anywhere...

I have to second that super8. This reminds me of my kids...you buy them a candy bar at the store and instead of being happy about it, they want a bigger one! :)

Coco Bermudez
05-28-2009, 09:13 AM
I have to second that super8. This reminds me of my kids...you buy them a candy bar at the store and instead of being happy about it, they want a bigger one! :)

LOL I was just going to modify my post to make that same analogy of my kids....as a society we seem to always have this knack for never being grateful or even satisfied.

I really get turned off by people who become so dejcted because their camera fails to have what in their opinion is the quintessential "it"

We have to be honest with ourselves and really analyze the products at hand and ask ourselves "Were these DSLR's REALLY designed to do what we want them to do ?"

booggerg2
05-28-2009, 09:27 AM
Typical.
You know what?
There are a damn sight more people in 25fps PAL / Secam than Never Twice the Same Colour
And we don't have to drop frames either.
/rant
Dave

Once again, I and many do not have empathy for you guys in PAL land. We simply do not care. We only care about 24p and NTSC land.

Digigenic
05-28-2009, 09:33 AM
I have to second that super8. This reminds me of my kids...you buy them a candy bar at the store and instead of being happy about it, they want a bigger one! :)
Now wait a second.
Nobody is asking for anything different than what was previously requested.
In fact, on many feature request lists, 24/25p was an equally high ranking demand with full manual exposure control. These are very reasonable requests, and to equate them to childish behavior is out of line.

1. Full Manual Exposure Control (provided in the firmware update)
2. 24/25p
3. Audio Control (will have to be distributed via Tramm's 5DMkFree hack)

I knew Canon's main priority was to stop the bleeding of people going out and buying Nikon's lenses with adapters. It still took them too long to be responsive to this one thing that hurt them the most though.
So as of right now, Canon addressed one of the 3 top requests (primarily for the sake of selling their lenses), but didn't bother with the other feature requests. Stu Maschwitz of ProLost helped to initiate the first round of firestorms against Canon, and even with the firmware update he isn't letting up because he knows how important 24p is. I believe that if Canon at least offers 25p, they'll have shaken a lot of people off their back.
Canon obviously knows now who these features appeal to (as their new promos for the firmware would mislead one into thinking they do), yet the absence of 24p really raises concerns about whether or not the indie filmmaker's interests have really been taken into account.

daveswan
05-28-2009, 09:35 AM
Morgan's right, we could legitimately reject the 5DII in the UK, and quite probably in the EU as well as not fit for purpose.
Trouble is the Brussels Sprouts are too busy creaming off their expenses to do something useful.

Lee Wilson
05-28-2009, 09:38 AM
I understand folks in Pal land's issue with 25p but have some of you considered that there are many folks in Pal land who also prefer 24p over 25p for cinematic purposes. Maybe you don't give a hoot but to say that most of the world wants 25p is not really the case. Most of the world like who? Every day Joes? Sally's? Filmakers? Broadcasters?



There are significantly more PAL (and SECAM) 50hz countries than there are NTSC 60hz countries.

The cinema (24p) market is likely a fractional proportion of 5D2 owners.

Conclusion, most of the world wants 25p.

booggerg2
05-28-2009, 09:38 AM
Morgan's right, we could legitimately reject the 5DII in the UK, and quite probably in the EU as well as not fit for purpose.
Trouble is the Brussels Sprouts are too busy creaming off their expenses to do something useful.

I bet you EU photogs love the 5D2 and will still buy them up in large numbers.

EU videographers who are looking to use the 5D2 as a video capture device is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the market.

daveswan
05-28-2009, 09:38 AM
And at least Panny have the good grace to provide PAL versions with 25p. Could almost push me towards the GH1. Stick that in your Can(n)on and smoke it!!!

Dzip
05-28-2009, 09:45 AM
Dear booggerg2, thanks for your effort in turining this thread into a NSTC vs PAL war. Because really, it's anoying that part of the world doesn't use the same frame rate as we do! What were they thinking? 25 fps is way too close to film! how can they tell if it's teevee or not. At least we can, right?.....:)

Lee Wilson
05-28-2009, 09:47 AM
Everyone gets all up in arms saying that Canon needs to wake up and do this and that with the video capabilities of the camera.....

And these people, with their endless complaining and campaigning and letter writing and petirion starting have likely promted Canon into addressing the issues with the 5D2's video functionality - delivering up full manual controls.


To be quite honest, we should feel lucky we get ANYTHING...

If everyone were to adopt this attitude, if everyone were to play around with the 5D2, discover it's various flaws and issues and simply think we should just consider ourselves lucky with what we have then I doubt we would have have got the firmware upgrade.


I really don't think Canon ever thought that the 5D would be used the way it is being used. Maybe the video capability recording was aimed at photojournalist as a little gimmick and that's it.

It was heavily marketed as a near revolution, the 5D2 promotional literature centred around the video functionally, they certainly didn't hide it at the back as just a little built in extra or gimmick.


Users like us have taken the camera to the next level by doing all sorts of tips and tricks. At the end of the day, Canon could just turn around and tell us..."you want the camera to have this and that and behave like a video camera?...then get a video camera!"

Yes, they could. Not sure what the point being made here is ?

Daniel L.
05-28-2009, 09:52 AM
by the way...can anyone tell me what are the bit rates the Canon 5d, Nikon d90 and Panasonic GH1 encode their data? I don't seem to find it anywhere...

Bit rates can be misleading. Just because a bit rate is higher on one source than the other does not necessarily mean it is better. That's because the implementation is not the same. Especially with completely different technologies.

For example, due to the processing limitations of the GH1 the codec is incomplete. It's missing B-frames, which means that the 17Mbit/s GH1 image will not look as good as an image from a more complete 17Mbit/s implementation. B-frames are important because they hold temporal information between frames, they are used to improve the video quality at a given data rate.

I'm not trying to attack the GH1. Only to meant to demonstrate how it's much more complicated than just bit rate.

I believe the D90 uses a MJPEG codec, which works differently from the H.264 used in the others. So you can't just compare bitrate.

The other two use H.264. The specifications for the standard makes them similar.

GH1 -> 17Mbit/s
5D Mark II -> 42Mbit/s

Ian-T
05-28-2009, 09:55 AM
In addition to the AVCHD used, the GH-1 also uses an MJPEG codec @ 30Mbps. FYI

Lee Wilson
05-28-2009, 10:06 AM
In the UK there is the 'sales of goods act' which means a product can be 'rejected' if it is not 'fit for purpose'

The fact that the 5d may not work indoors makes it not 'fit for purpose' in the UK IMO

I find more problems shooting outdoors ! Even in daylight street signs and shops can flicker.

The SOGA would not get you anywhere with the 5D2, the 5D's video mode is designed (and advertised) to shoot 30 frames per second, it meets this purpose.

daveswan
05-28-2009, 11:31 AM
Possibly debatable, since the design itself could be considered at fault.
However I'm not a lawyer so I'll leave the question to those who are.
Dave

Tracey Lee
05-28-2009, 11:34 AM
So define "rejected" for us. What does it mean you can do if you live in the UK and want to "reject" a product?

morgan_moore
05-28-2009, 12:04 PM
Basically you can buy something and have a legal right to take it back and get a refund if the device is not 'fit for purpose'

if you buy something like a hat and decide you do not like the colour the shop does not have a legal obligation to take it back just because you changed your mind

I think there would be good case to 'reject' the 5d

However I like my 5d it and wont be rejecting it, unless everyone else does on the same day :)

I was just arguing the point (probably pointlessly) that given one more feature request only it should be 25 not 24 because without 25 (or 50i) I dont think it is 'fit for purpose across a significant portion of the planet

Of course I would like both rates

S

killacam
05-28-2009, 12:15 PM
Bit rates can be misleading. Just because a bit rate is higher on one source than the other does not necessarily mean it is better. That's because the implementation is not the same. Especially with completely different technologies.

For example, due to the processing limitations of the GH1 the codec is incomplete. It's missing B-frames, which means that the 17Mbit/s GH1 image will not look as good as an image from a more complete 17Mbit/s implementation. B-frames are important because they hold temporal information between frames, they are used to improve the video quality at a given data rate.

I'm not trying to attack the GH1. Only to meant to demonstrate how it's much more complicated than just bit rate.

I believe the D90 uses a MJPEG codec, which works differently from the H.264 used in the others. So you can't just compare bitrate.

The other two use H.264. The specifications for the standard makes them similar.

GH1 -> 17Mbit/s
5D Mark II -> 42Mbit/s

I don't think the 5D Mark II uses B-frames either:
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080922/158348/

Daniel L.
05-28-2009, 12:23 PM
Killacam,

Very interesting! Thanks!


As the Digic 4 does not use such a powerful encoding tool as B-flame, its encoding speed (bit rate) is relatively high.

Looks like the reason the 5D has such a high data rate is to compensate for the lack of B-frames. Rather than using prediction and interpolation it crams as much data as possible into each frame. This is both a good and bad thing...

Kholi
05-28-2009, 12:27 PM
Probably not a bad thing if people didn't know it until now and it's been fine. They just did a better job than Panasonic compensating for the lack-of.

squig
05-28-2009, 01:21 PM
Everyone gets all up in arms saying that Canon needs to wake up and do this and that with the video capabilities of the camera.....

To be quite honest, we should feel lucky we get ANYTHING...I

You in 30p land can feel lucky punk, here in 25p land we just feel abandoned

The D90 has a variable bit-rate between 7 and 25Mbps. mjpeg is about 2-3 times less efficient than H.264 as it compresses each frame individually.

morgan_moore
05-28-2009, 01:26 PM
Rolling Shutter Films

And some flickering too

You you got everything you wanted :) :)

S

squig
05-28-2009, 01:29 PM
yeah joy

Kholi weren't you going away to get some work done?

squig
05-28-2009, 01:31 PM
flickering wasn't really a problem with the D90, I was always able to lock it onto the 50hz by waving it around until I got a 1/50 shutter so 24p was as good as 25p.

morgan_moore
05-28-2009, 01:43 PM
hello ?

what happens if you manually select 50th - problem solved ?

S

squig
05-28-2009, 01:44 PM
I find more problems shooting outdoors ! Even in daylight street signs and shops can flicker.



I'm interested to hear how you fair with shutter control

squig
05-28-2009, 01:50 PM
hello ?

what happens if you manually select 50th - problem solved ?

S

the only manual control you have is to wave it around until it locks on. I just assumed it was a 1/25 or 1/50 shutter because thats what it has in stills mode no 1/48. This was under CFLs and is quite visible.

Lee Wilson
05-28-2009, 02:11 PM
hello ?

what happens if you manually select 50th - problem solved ?

S

The frame rate is still 1/30th regardless where you set the shutter speed, you are still out of sync with a PAL power cycle, you will still get some flicker/pulsing.

caseyhayward
05-28-2009, 02:41 PM
Thanks to Hudson..
* On screen audio levels
* Manual audio gain
* Zebra
* Crop lines for set aspect ratio
* More on the way...


At the risk of being a nit-picker, I don't think hudson has achieved manual audio gain, he has just disabled AGC.

Pepster
05-28-2009, 03:29 PM
At the risk of being a nit-picker, I don't think hudson has achieved manual audio gain, he has just disabled AGC.
To also nit-pick, disabling the AGC, Hudson has effectively given manual audio level control, essential for manual audio gain control, whilst the actual gain adjustment is done in an external mike pre-amp.

So yes, Hudson has effectively enabled manual audio gain control.

Lee Wilson
05-28-2009, 04:52 PM
To also nit-pick, disabling the AGC, Hudson has effectively given manual audio level control, essential for manual audio gain control, whilst the actual gain adjustment is done in an external mike pre-amp.

So yes, Hudson has effectively enabled manual audio gain control.

To also nit-pick, the gain it currently fixed at +32dB, it is not controllable in camera, you must externally attenuate the incoming signal - this is not in camera gain control - which was the what Daniel L implied in his list of 'Advantages of the 5D/Thanks to Hudson'.


[ . . . waits for the next nit-pick]

Daniel L.
05-28-2009, 08:28 PM
At the risk of being a nit-picker, I don't think hudson has achieved manual audio gain, he has just disabled AGC.

Well, you are right I did make it sound a bit misleading. For now gain is hard coded. It's manual, but you have to recompile to change it. A little too manual ;)

A few posts back I pointed out that you will need a mixer to adjust levels on your own.

Sorry about any confusion, did not mean to mislead anybody.

Gordon Prince
05-29-2009, 01:14 AM
The frame rate is still 1/30th regardless where you set the shutter speed, you are still out of sync with a PAL power cycle, you will still get some flicker/pulsing.Here I am as the next nit-picker:

http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2661&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

klas
05-29-2009, 01:56 AM
The frame rate is still 1/30th regardless where you set the shutter speed, you are still out of sync with a PAL power cycle, you will still get some flicker/pulsing.
Have you tried it? I know I got rid of the flickering using PAL-standard shutter speeds when I did a couple of shorts with an ntsc XL1S some years ago. I got horrified when I tested the camera for the first time, and saw the effect of 50hz on it. But I got rid of that changing the shutterspeeds to PAL-standards.

caseyhayward
05-29-2009, 05:28 AM
To also nit-pick, disabling the AGC, Hudson has effectively given manual audio level control, essential for manual audio gain control, whilst the actual gain adjustment is done in an external mike pre-amp.

So yes, Hudson has effectively enabled manual audio gain control.

Daniel, Thanks for acknowledging the misstatement.

Pepster, the list was about what the camera itself is capable of, not what you can do with added do-dads. I'm sure it seems a small issue but this kind of stuff is important to make informed decisions about what kind of effort and cash it will take to get a camera working the way you want it to.

KREEDMAN
05-29-2009, 09:50 AM
I asked philip bloom on his blog and he seems to be happy with 30p and just shutter control.

At least that's what I understood from his answer.

Buck Forester
05-29-2009, 01:57 PM
As soon as the "new" ones come from the factory with the new firmware, I'm all over this 5D II. I've been holding off for a Scarlet for too long. Plus having the original 5D and an array of Canon L glass and all the GND filters, I think this camera will fit my "style" of shooting perfectly since it's what I'm used to doing with stills. I still love my EX1 (and will keep it for sure), the 5D II will be the one I take with me in the remote backcountry.

puredrifting
05-29-2009, 03:03 PM
Seems like the 5D MKII would be ideal for your needs. I will be dragging mine all over Europe this Summer, I was going to bring my Nikon D300 for stills and was going to grab an HFS100 to shoot video but the 5D seemed to be a better solution.

But you realize that you are just just jumping on the bandwagon now that its going to easy to use professionally, right? ;-) All of the cool people have already been wrestling with the automatic exposure for months, cursing Canon and filling their idle hours with petitions and hacks. You're just riding the coattails man!

Dan

Emanuel
05-29-2009, 04:55 PM
Have you tried it? I know I got rid of the flickering using PAL-standard shutter speeds when I did a couple of shorts with an ntsc XL1S some years ago. I got horrified when I tested the camera for the first time, and saw the effect of 50hz on it. But I got rid of that changing the shutterspeeds to PAL-standards.
I asked philip bloom on his blog and he seems to be happy with 30p and just shutter control.

At least that's what I understood from his answer.As I had already said in the past, the key is just shutter control. My use of the word 'fallacy' had produced a series of ridges. OK, maybe not exactly 'a serial'. :-)

iancarleton
06-01-2009, 12:14 PM
I know this is getting a little over anxious, but does anyone know what time of day the firmware will be released?

morgan_moore
06-01-2009, 12:23 PM
If you get it can you post results

My concern is that it may cripple third party lenses and will therefore not installing straight away until I see a detailed discription

Do you have nikons ?

S

sunburst
06-01-2009, 10:13 PM
My concern is that it may cripple third party lenses and will therefore not installing straight away until I see a detailed discription

Do you have nikons ?

S

yes, my concern too. anybody know? I have Nikon glass already.

I'm also waiting to buy the body, till it is confirmed that 24p can be FIRMWARE,

and NOT hardware modification. and is a DEFINATE update, not vaporware.

thanks

ESTEBEVERDE
06-02-2009, 01:01 AM
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/firm-e/eos5dmk2/firmware.html

Lee Wilson
06-02-2009, 04:24 AM
My concern is that it may cripple third party lenses and will therefore not installing straight away until I see a detailed discription

Do you have nikons ?


yes, my concern too. anybody know? I have Nikon glass already.

Nikons work fine - no evil crippling from Canon this time.

Jokerswild
06-02-2009, 08:02 AM
Anybody wanna buy a Canon 1DSMKII? .....I want another 5DMKII....Hoorah!

sunburst
06-02-2009, 09:58 AM
Nikons work fine - no evil crippling from Canon this time.

cool. thanks bro.

I wonder if I wait for a body with the updated firmware, { + a future 24 p release}, if they could do this?

am I just paranoid-lol?