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View Full Version : Hacking the GH1 to record RAW???



dan_aka_jack
05-26-2009, 09:28 AM
Does anyone know if any groups or individuals are planning to hack the GH1 to output RAW directly from the sensor (kind of like the Andromeda project for the DVX100)? I heard a rumour that a group in Ireland are planning to hack the GH1; any details?

And/or does anyone know who makes the GH1's sensor? Is it a Sony sensor? Or did Panasonic design and fabricate it? (I have no idea if Panasonic have fabrication facilities).

It seems to me that a GH1 recording compressed RAW (like Cineform RAW) would absolutely rock!

Ian-T
05-26-2009, 09:35 AM
I'm wondering the same thing. I would love some sort of hack on this puppy.

John Caballero
05-26-2009, 09:46 AM
Connected to a Nano Flash recorder would be awesome.

henryolonga
05-26-2009, 09:48 AM
Jack - you keep popping up everywhere - we aren't the only ones thinking this surely - so how hard can it be to gain some momentum on this.This rumour you heard.................any idea who it is referrring to?The GH1 is a perfect candidate - less rolling shutter,24p,interchangeable lenses,large sensor - I mean,RAW out of this thing would be amazing.The guy who is hacking the 5D,
Hudson I think, really ought to have a look at the GH1 and see if he can output live HDMI.That would do for me and I would gladly pay for the privilige.Anyone who can do this will be classed a legend in my eyes..Live sensor readout would be a ton of data but if that can be done then count me in again - this would turn this sucker into a mini RED.

Here is my contribution to this dilemma.I believe that the power of observation is our friend.I will use information From Panasonic themselves.

Check this video of the little non-video G1 cam out guys.....the little brother of the GH1..

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/LUMIX+Digital+Cameras/G+Micro+System/DMC-G1/Multimedia/1564821/index.html?trackInfo=true&mmView=video&number=1&size=l


1 minute 24 seconds.Did you see that????It is connected to an HDTV and I believe it may be via HDMI ( 3 minutes 21 seconds ).It may be composite but I don't know.Either way - I went to my local Jessops ( a camera shop here in the UK ) to see if I could get it to output a live signal and guess what - nothing.Twice I have tried to do so but failed.This means that the camera is capable of doing this as shown in this video but we know not how.There is no hiding it now is there?The G1 outputs live video.....but Pana have disabled it for the rest of us.


Perhaps a service manual from a disgruntled,laid off former Pana employee .(Tongue in cheek so no offence intended).Perhaps it is a simple button combination at start up.This would be amazing.Any other ideas....think i am on track here or imagining things.

H

My vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/henryolonga/videos
My website: www.henryolonga.net (http://www.henryolonga.net/)

Jaime Valles
05-26-2009, 09:54 AM
I'd be happy with the unprocessed 4:2:2 HD signal from the HDMI port. Hook it up to a Nano Flash recorder, and you're set.

dan_aka_jack
05-26-2009, 10:14 AM
This rumour you heard.................any idea who it is referrring to?

'Fraid not! To be honest, I could have dreamt it! I'm 90% certain I read a very brief post here on DVXuser about a group in Ireland who were thinking of hacking the GH1. I've done a number of searches for "Ireland" and "Belfast" here on the board but no joy.

I agree - HDMI out would be a big step up (as long as it was possible to output a "flat" image from the camera with the sensor's full dynamic range represented in the signal). Compressed RAW would just make me jump for joy.

I'm day-dreaming about a little box the size of a Beechbox which you bolt onto the bottom of the camera after hacking the camera to output the sensor's RAW data to a little port on the side of the cam. The box records compressed RAW to SD or SSD and also has an S/PDIF input and dual XLR inputs. (That's a Scarlet competitor right there). Heck, even if a backpack full of hardware were required to record compressed RAW I'd still go for it.

henryolonga
05-26-2009, 10:22 AM
Where are you based Jack.London?We share similiar ideas.I am in west London....just checking.You do alot of arty things.Great stuff

My vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/henryolonga/videos
My website: www.henryolonga.net (http://www.henryolonga.net/)

dan_aka_jack
05-26-2009, 10:49 AM
@Henry - I've PMed you!

AdrianF
05-26-2009, 11:10 AM
1 minute 24 seconds.Did you see that????It is connected to an HDTV and I believe it may be via HDMI ( 3 minutes 21 seconds ).It may be composite but I don't know.Either way - I went to my local Jessops ( a camera shop here in the UK ) to see if I could get it to output a live signal and guess what - nothing.Twice I have tried to do so but failed.This means that the camera is capable of doing this as shown in this video but we know not how.There is no hiding it now is there?The G1 outputs live video.....but Pana have disabled it for the rest of us.

I remember watching this a while back and thinking, great the GH1's going to have a live output. Somebody has got to figure this out sooner or later. If it's accessible for demo purposes then hopefully there will be a button combo golden key of joy somewhere.

Joe Shaw
05-26-2009, 11:25 AM
There is a video on Vimeo that was captured from a G1 - yes a G1. He explains that he holds down the trash button for a few seconds and it switches from the display on the back to outputting to a TV (not HD) Details here: http://vimeo.com/4206790 Could be that is what is happening in the Panasonic video?

Kholi
05-26-2009, 12:22 PM
Yeah, I've never seen that video before but he could be outputting the SD signal to the LCD which you CAN do until you hit the record button.

However, he's snapping photos as well, and I don't think the video on my GH-1 stays on when you snap photos.

The good news: if that Firmware update that's been spat out by Panasonic already will work, then we already have a place to start with the Hack.

John Caballero
05-26-2009, 12:55 PM
The people at Convergent would be a huge beneficiary of HDMI direct output from the GH1. They would make a ton of extra sales.

Ian-T
05-26-2009, 01:10 PM
The people at Convergent would be a huge beneficiary of HDMI direct output from the GH1. They would make a ton of extra sales.Well...I've always complained that the nano flash is way too expensive. But if (or I should say WHEN) there is a hack on this GH-1 then the nano flash will be my good friend. At that point it will probably be....Red who???

John Caballero
05-26-2009, 01:14 PM
Is a bit expensive but for what it would do with a full HDMI out in the GH1 it would be awesome. It would surpass cameras costing many many thousands more. If you are making money with filmmaking the quality of the output would give you a big edge. Making the investment back would be no problem. And it would fit perfectly on top of the camera too!

henryolonga
05-26-2009, 01:24 PM
Kholi,
you have one of these baby's.How about connecting to an LCD via HDMI and pushing the trashcan for a few seconds.Can only try dude...........obviously if one wished to record using an intensity pro or related product then one would not need to push record.

Kholi
05-26-2009, 03:04 PM
Oh I tried, profusely. LoL. Trust me, it's not workin'.

And my GH-1 is gone now for a week or so. =( So sad.

But it's going to good hands. =D

Orchidthief
05-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Oh I tried, profusely. LoL. Trust me, it's not workin'.

And my GH-1 is gone now for a week or so. =( So sad.

But it's going to good hands. =D


At least you can say you have one! Seriously can't wait for it. Hoping that it comes in June like the Panasonic site states.

ryansheffer
05-26-2009, 05:04 PM
I don't understand all of the hype around the nanoFlash. The Ki-Pro, though more expensive is ten times more useful for production.

Ian-T
05-26-2009, 06:21 PM
I don't understand all of the hype around the nanoFlash. The Ki-Pro, though more expensive is ten times more useful for production.
Price baby....Price. But still a little rich for my blood.

Saddler
05-27-2009, 02:40 PM
Question regarding the KiPro; do the external harddrives that plug into it have any sort of motion compensation like the Panasonic P2 offloader? Basically I want to know if you can throw it in a backpack while you're filming.

I haven't been following the GH1 forums the past couple of weeks since I picked up a T1i. How is the shutter roll? It's horrid on the T1i at 1080 (I know, 20fps is useless anyways). It's also unfortunately very noticeable on in 720 30p in any closeups with motion; that's either at a narrow FOV with the object filling most of the frame, or with an ultra-wide really close so the object also fills most of the frame.

Nitsuj
05-27-2009, 02:54 PM
Ki-Pro looks a little bulky for a GH1 compared to the nanoFlash. The nanoFlash would be perfect for run-n-gun

pix2pixels
05-27-2009, 04:12 PM
I am afraid that while activating the HDMI output during recording, the EVF or the LCD display will go, as it happens with other combocams.

I'd love to see a better NLE friendly codec with less artifacts and decent transcoding time.

Ideally, RAW recording with good wavelet compression like RED or Cineform.

obin
06-05-2009, 10:07 PM
So i have a gh1 in my hands for a little while.....am I correct in thinking that it will NOT output HDMI before compression? this thing ROCKS but the compression SUCKS badly!

anyone getting more then the compressed footage out of it?

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
06-05-2009, 10:27 PM
So i have a gh1 in my hands for a little while.....am I correct in thinking that it will NOT output HDMI before compression? this thing ROCKS but the compression SUCKS badly! anyone getting more then the compressed footage out of it?

It's been discussed here & elsewhere for weeks that the GH1 only outputs HDMI during playback, and composite video only during preview & playback. No video is output from a GH1 when it's in record mode.

See also:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=173291

reem12
06-21-2010, 07:10 PM
the power of the people. keep it coming.

Exact
06-22-2010, 10:26 AM
The biggest problem is how are you going to develop the raw footage? No one is going to spend time supporting 'hack' firmware in their commercial products unless there is a proven market for it.

hecti
11-08-2011, 11:50 AM
The biggest problem is how are you going to develop the raw footage? No one is going to spend time supporting 'hack' firmware in their commercial products unless there is a proven market for it.

http://atomos.com/ninja/

Dan Hudgins
02-12-2012, 03:05 PM
With regard to the RAW development issue, I have a free solution to developing RAW footage, both Bayer data and non-white balanced image data at sensor native saturation and white balance on my Web site now in file DANCINEC.ZIP (tm).

DANCINEC.EXE (tm) can be run on MAC if you have windows installed and runs up to Windows 7 64bit Pro (tm) as far as I know on PC, and down to Windows ME (tm).

If you record the RAW sensor data there are some problems if it is only 8bit H.264 like compression. The native sensor balance is very low color saturation and if you convert the linear 12bit or 14bit sensor data to 8bit format the contrast would be very low. When the footage is graded up in contrast and saturation the histogram gaps will enlarge quite a bit and the block artifacts will increase in prominence.

When you increase the color saturation with the needed chroma matrix to compensate for the low color saturation of the native sensor saturation you will increase color fringe artifacts that may look a bit like chroma moire due to the compression making small un-evenness in the red-green-blue color planes.

If the camera could be hacked to save the image at a higher bit depth with a lower level of compression you could get closer to the results of a wavelet compressed RAW camera, but the only way to eliminate the color artifacts is to do one of two things,

1) Record uncompressed using bypass of the internal image processing to save the sensor ADC values through the HDMI or a hardware hack direct to the sensor pins.

2) Do all the color correction and grading in the camera's circuits BEFORE compression as the GH2 was intended to be used.

Even just making the 8 bit data low contrast for Cineon (tm) Log-C while still being white balanced is not such a great idea since when you grade the contrast and saturation higher you are still going to get histogram gaps and color artifacts along with more prominent block artifacts.

You can see some examples of 12bit linear RAW recording converted through my de-Bayer program on my Vimeo page now, shot with the KineRAW-S8p (tm) camera. If you have any questions about processing RAW footage from any camera, Bayer or 3-Chip, or anything else feel free to contact me by email with 'RAW camera support' in the subject line, my programs may already do what is needed, or I can look into what additional code could be added to get things working well.