PC vs. MAC

[tonydvcoste]

Ok I'm hoping this stirs up some discussion, because I'm facing a very big decision:

I love Mac's, they're just so much more reliable, but it seems that the work flow is just so much easier with a PC for the AVCHD files (I've got a consumer Sony that shoots in AVCHD and have been editing that footage with Vegas for the last few years).

I've asked previously if anybody was using a mac for editing AVCHD 1080p, because I've had my eyes on a 2.4ghz duo-core macbook, but for the same price (cheaper actually) I can get a 2.5 quad "Gaming PC" from tigerdirect.ca

If I can get away with using macbook, I'm definitely going macbook, but I don't want to shell out two grand and end up regretting my choice, I'm sure anybody out there with a tight budget will understand.

Thanks in advance to any advice you can share!

[LoganMackay]

I will be building a new i7 PC myself.

[ChipG]

I know studios who reboot thier Avids (PC) once a year, I have been on many sets where Macbooks have to be rebooted several times a day. PC's have come a long way for reliablity, I don't really know which ones are going to be more stable anymore. They are both pretty good now.

If your on a budget get a quad or i7 core PC computer for under $1k, it'll be great for avchd footage and vegas.

I understand what all the hoopla was about for macs a few years ago reliability wise but today I'd take a PC over a Mac.

Thats just me, I'm sure plenty of people will dissagree.

[ChipG]

FYI since you want a laptop to edit avchd I'd buy the new quad core HP laptop for the same price as the duo core mac.

[dmoreno]

I currently edit on a Toshiba Laptop (PC obviously) using Vegas Pro 8. It cost me $900 and is a Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz with 4 GB of RAM. It can edit AVCHD natively with out any transcoding but its kind of slow. I have tried Cineform Neo Scene and I have decided to buy it because transcoding is really fast and Vegas surely works better with the resulting cineform avis. Also the 3:2 pulldown removal for 24p footage works perfectly and fast, something I will really appreciate once I buy my new GH1!
I know all the Mac lovers will tell you nothing can beat Mac OS and Final Cut, but Vegas works like a charm for me!

[kwoff]

Would it be possible to edit in Vegas under Bootcamp on a Macbook? I recall that a while ago PC magazine found that the fastest Windows laptop at that time was a MacBook Pro running Windows under Bootcamp. That might allow you to indulge your fondness for Macs and also work in Vegas if the support for AVCHD is better (I have never worked with that format, so I can't address that question.

Kevin

[ChipG]

Would it be possible to edit in Vegas under Bootcamp on a Macbook? I recall that a while ago PC magazine found that the fastest Windows laptop at that time was a MacBook Pro running Windows under Bootcamp. That might allow you to indulge your fondness for Macs and also work in Vegas if the support for AVCHD is better (I have never worked with that format, so I can't address that question.

Kevin

Times have changed, they now have quad core PC laptops that will smoke a duo core macbook pro (no quad core macbook pro that I know about). I think for avchd footage and the same price as the duo core macbook pro it would be stupid not to get the quadcore HP laptop unless your a FCP editor or there is some specific apple software application that you HAVE to use for work. Also you can get a blu ray burner in the HP laptop, a must IMO for HD projects.

[Selvedge]

I've owned a couple Macbook Pros and I greatly favor OS X, but if I was crunching video all day, I would heavily lean towards a PC for more powerful CPU/GPU options.

If you do choose the MBP, you can always dual boot into Windows or run Windows in VMware. I can't really live without XP, so this is what I do currently.

The MBP will be the better choice for daily computing - but what you seem to need is raw horsepower!

Also, why are you shopping for a laptop (instead of a desktop)?

[Barry_Green]

Guys, we greatly appreciate the civil tone and the experience-based way the thread is going so far. Thanks for keeping it about the original poster's intended usage rather than the kind of flaming and posturing that "pc vs. mac" threads are famous for.

[ChipG]

Guys, we greatly appreciate the civil tone and the experience-based way the thread is going so far. Thanks for keeping it about the original poster's intended usage rather than the kind of flaming and posturing that "pc vs. mac" threads are famous for.

Far from the old threads where the PC guys would call the Apple guys Mom's names and vice versa. :) The old days :beer:

I almost said do a search but I realize how much computer technology changes in 3 -6 months.

[Car3o]

I work with both Mac and Pc's...I'd choose PC over Mac due to having more experience with it. I can say from years and years behind the driver seat of a PC I can't complain. Also, seeing how Macs are feeding off of 1's and 0's now, you can easily buy a PC and boot a Mac OS now with no trouble. Just buy the licesne to Leopard and install it on your PC.

On xbench...(I think that's what it's called) I out scored a Mac using my PC running Leopard.
3ghz duo core 2gig ram(at the time) Geforce 8600gt.

[tonydvcoste]

"Also, why are you shopping for a laptop (instead of a desktop)?"

I'll be traveling over the summer to festivals where I'll need to upload/edit/dump footage (quicker the better), on site, over the 3 or 4 day events. I don't really need this feature but I found last year it worked great while using a Macbook pro 2.2ghz duo-core, along with a dvx100b, but that isn't my gear, and I was quoted $4,100 Canadian for the dvx, the GH1 seems like a sensible alternative for what I'm doing, if I get a GH1 and a PC then I can afford a Zoom H4n and a few mics. I'm very glad to hear that a quad laptop is not only available, but less expensive then the mac duocore, I'm definitely heavily leaning towards the HP, I'll need to find a Canadian source here in Nova Scotia.

thanks all!

[ChipG]

The quad core HP laptop can display on two 30 inch monitors, great for a mobile / home editing setup.

[Richard J. Johnson]

After many years using Mac's for everything (currently have 4) I am really thinking of going with Mega-fast PC for Editing next time around. My powermac G5 Dual is okay for editing HD footage but it's getting long-in-the-tooth and is starting to act up. Since the economy has gotten so bad I just can't see dropping 3 grand on a new Macpro right now. And I am starting to believe that I don't need to. Learning Vegas won't be difficult and you just get more bang for your buck with custom built PC's nowadays.

[ChipG]

After many years using Mac's for everything (currently have 4) I am really thinking of going with Mega-fast PC for Editing next time around. My powermac G5 Dual is okay for editing HD footage but it's getting long-in-the-tooth and is starting to act up. Since the economy has gotten so bad I just can't see dropping 3 grand on a new Macpro right now. And I am starting to believe that I don't need to. Learning Vegas won't be difficult and you just get more bang for your buck with custom built PC's nowadays.

You can always make a hackintosh where you put the Apple OS on the i7 PC so you can still use FCP f you want. The hackintoshes got bad reps in the beginng but are now just as stable as a Mac.

I'd say best of both worlds but it's more like better than both worlds :)

[Richard J. Johnson]

You can always make a hackintosh where you put the Apple OS on the i7 PC so you can still use FCP f you want. The hackintoshes got bad reps in the beginng but are now just as stable as a Mac.

I'd say best of both worlds but it's more like better than both worlds :)

I did not know you could do that. I am looking into that today. thanks

[ChipG]

google hackintosh

[ChipG]

Here:

http://lifehacker.com/348653/install-os-x-on-your-hackintosh-pc-no-hacking-required

[anthonybsd]

I am in the same boat as you: I use Macbook for my day job, and I used FCE and Imovie on it in the past and loved the experience. However, even playing HD files on it is quite taxing, not to mention editing. I have a relatively speedy PC box at home that I use as my media center/bluray-hddvd player/HD tuner/occasional game. Since it's always on in its DVR capacity it's kept fairly stable - I am very careful with registry pollution, HD codecs, 5.1 sound configuration, etc. I'd prefer to use a Mac for editing (simply because of the shortcuts that come naturally), but I simply cannot afford Mac Pro because of both financial and space-saving considerations (have you seen NYC apartments?). So I've decided that I'll try both Vegas and Premiere on my PC box and unless I absolutely hate it (which I'm sure I won't) I'll stick with it.

[Nighthawk]

I am in the same boat as you: I use Macbook for my day job, and I used FCE and Imovie on it in the past and loved the experience. However, even playing HD files on it is quite taxing, not to mention editing. I have a relatively speedy PC box at home that I use as my media center/bluray-hddvd player/HD tuner/occasional game. Since it's always on in its DVR capacity it's kept fairly stable - I am very careful with registry pollution, HD codecs, 5.1 sound configuration, etc. I'd prefer to use a Mac for editing (simply because of the shortcuts that come naturally), but I simply cannot afford Mac Pro because of both financial and space-saving considerations (have you seen NYC apartments?). So I've decided that I'll try both Vegas and Premiere on my PC box and unless I absolutely hate it (which I'm sure I won't) I'll stick with it.

Same here as well. Love the Mac but what I've got now just can't handle it anymore. Financially the PC seems to be a better option at the moment. Just seems to be more bang for the buck. I'm a little worried about the learning curve for PC NLEs. I'm not the brightest bulb in the turnip patch. Any advice as to which NLE would be the right choice and give me the best options; Vegas, Premiere or Edius?

Thanks

[Barry_Green]

If you're an FCP user, look at Premiere -- it's very similar.

If you want the best bang for the buck, nothing beats EDIUS Neo for AVC-HD editing. But if you want something that supports bigger formats like AVC-Intra or DVCPRO-HD, Neo isn't what you'd want, you'd need the full-fledged EDIUS 5, or Premiere Pro CS4.1.

[anthonybsd]

Also, seeing how Macs are feeding off of 1's and 0's now
:)

I'll have to use that quote sometime.

[tonydvcoste]

used premiere once, at the time the ram broke on the computer i was using only a day or two before i installed it, so the computer kept restarting randomly, so the boss bought a macbook pro, which i was very happy using (to get back on final cut). I've used vegas a lot also, but if EDIUS Neo is what will be good to edit the GH1 footage then that will be what I learn and use (assuming it doesn't cost as much as the computer that runs it!)

[Joe Shaw]

I use Edius 5 regularly and love it. My brother needed something to edit together his family videos etc. and I suggested he tried the demo of Edius Neo. He picked it up pretty quickly and is using it with no problems. It is very similar to the full blown Edius. So I do suggest anyone who is thinking about it tries the demo and see what you think.

[puredrifting]

:)

I'll have to use that quote sometime.

I must be a bit thick this morning, I don't get it. Does the OP mean that Macs are finally using binary code or ?? I usually get metaphor and subtle digs but did not get this one.

It seems that with the editing crowd, the bad economy is resulting in a uptick of public opinion swaying toward low cost PCs. I have to say, even as a die hard Mac head, I understand the sentiment. Everytime I go to configure a new Mac Pro to replace my aging G5, even with the educational discount (wife is a teacher), the new Mac Pros seem a lot more expensive than when I bought my G5. It is a LOT of money for a well equipped new Mac Pro. If I could actually reliably run OSX and FCP on a good PC, I would consider it. As long as I didn't have to deal with Windows.

D

[Nitsuj]

There are actually a lot of good comparison articles out there and from what I can tell they have all destroyed the myth about Mac's being overpriced. With a comparable PC the price is around the same yet sometimes even more expensive strictly on a hardware basis. I spent several weeks researching what will be the best to work with and after the dust settled I am going for Mac. It's got a quality factor that keeps me interested. You can resell a macbook pro for a considerable amount compared to trying to resell something like an HP laptop. My first computer was an Apple IIGS - after that I have always been a PC user... until now.

[anthonybsd]

I must be a bit thick this morning, I don't get it. Does the OP mean that Macs are finally using binary code or ?? I usually get metaphor and subtle digs but did not get this one.
D
It's a pun on the switch to Intel platform. Of course they used 1s and 0s before (everything that has a concept of 'binary executable' does, no?, hehe). It's just that somehow with that statement there's an implication or a sentiment if you will that before they were alien PowerPC 1s and 0s and hence weird alien-voodo kind. Whereas, now it uses standard PC hardware. Anyhow I liked it :)




If I could actually reliably run OSX and FCP on a good PC, I would consider it. As long as I didn't have to deal with Windows.
D
Even though I use OS X for 90% of my day to day interaction with computers I wouldn't dream of running an HD media center DVR on it. Someday, maybe, but not there yet. Hence I have no hating for Windows or PCs as such. After some tuning and not much OC-ing Vista is very stable (my macbook crashes at least once every 2 weeks for that matter, but it's an insane workhorse!). Not sure about Vista 64 though - I could never get CoreAVC codec to work right on it, so I'm only seeing 3.5 Gigs of RAM on Vista 32 :(

Anyhow to the topic at hand: if you are within the realm of one program (like aforementioned Premiere) I don't see how even a diehard Machead like me wouldn't have a pleasurable experience on Windows(or any other platform for that matter).

[postvfx]

I'm using new Vegas 9.0 - is truly far superior then 8.0 version (speed wise and BEST QUALITY playback is amazing). Edius 5 is awesome too, but crashes too much on my machine, maybe need re-install clean Windows XP again & tweak it.
So I will be looking at full feature cut. I don't work with full 1080, to save hard drives life I edit proxy 700x500 etc.
I have Quad E6600 2.4 GHZ, 3 GB RAM, 6 TB space, converting GH-1 footage to Quicktime Animation later for post & vfx.
I wonder how much speed gain I would get with I7 processor.

[ryansheffer]

If you don't mind transcoding. I've edited 1080p24 Prores HQ on a 2.4 white macbook without a problem. Even done it on a 5400rpm bus powered firewire drive. I have a macbook pro unibody 2.53 now but miss the form factor of the 13" macbook.

FWIW if I didn't need the express card port for esata and my matrox MXO2, I would sell my macbook pro and buy one of the new unibody macbooks with firewire. The $1500 one is an amazing tool for FCP users - especially with the SD card for your GH1

Also - it's a myth that integrated graphics hurts final cut performance. Certainly affects other programs, but if all you want to do is edit, no problem whatsoever even on a white macbook.

[anthonybsd]

Also - it's a myth that integrated graphics hurts final cut performance. Certainly affects other programs, but if all you want to do is edit, no problem whatsoever even on a white macbook.

I presume you are talking about "new new" white macbook with Nvidia 9400M card? FCP won't even install on older Intel integrated macbooks.

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/specs/
"An AGP or PCI Express Quartz Extreme graphics card (Final Cut Studio is not compatible with integrated Intel graphics processors)"

[Jackson Miller]

So can someone link me to this quad core HP laptop? Has it not come out yet? Honestly, I just can't go back to pc's. I might consider running OSX on one though, but it doesn't sound reliable yet... is it?

[SteveCharles]

The HP laptop I saw was their HDX 18t model that can be customized with a Core 2 Quad.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/series/category/notebooks/HDX18t_series/3/computer_store

BestBuy.com had a quad core configuration of this model for around $1800.

[Car3o]

So can someone link me to this quad core HP laptop? Has it not come out yet? Honestly, I just can't go back to pc's. I might consider running OSX on one though, but it doesn't sound reliable yet... is it?

I run leopard and it's just as reliable as the real thing. Drivers can be an issue, but it's because the device I was using never released drivers for mac.

Also, if you're dual booting between Windows and OS? the time on your Windows will be off.

[Ben_B]

AVCHD workflow in FCP 6 (transcoding to Pro Res) has been working just fine on my several year old White Macbook...if you want a Mac get a mac you won't have any problems. Also when Final Cut Studio 3 comes out they're increasing AVCHD support (rumor but my boss tells me it's confirmed at apple, he talked to some engineers on the phone about forward compatability of FC Server.) Anyway, I have always had better luck doing editing on a mac than a PC, and I think the workflows are much easier and more manageable, and I like FCP better than Premiere or Vegas....and if my White Macbook can edit GH1 footage then I'm sure whatever you buy from apple today can.

I really think this idea that you need a top of the line machine to edit footage from these cameras is a misconception. Old hardware handles huge Pro Res files fine, and if it doesn't, turn down the preview quality slightly, the footage being slightly blockier won't effect your editing, and if you're in a standard layout editing program on a laptop sized screen you probably won't notice anyway. Editing natively in AVCHD seems kind of buggy and weird to me even on windows right now, I'd prefer transcoding it.

[tonydvcoste]

it isn't a matter of "can this pc/mac edit the footage" it's a question of "will it take 10 minutes to export, or five hours to export"

i bought a duo core HP HDX Premium series laptop, it was a money issue, this way i can afford to get an H4n where if i went with a mac with similar specs (same processor speed, but only 2gb of ram compared to my HP's 6) and i'm fairly happy with my decision, although i will admit one thing: editing on a pc is frustrating. i used premiere when i was working for a bars website, hated it, so i took the footage to home to use on my pc (vegas) and it was just too old and took forever to export (render) the footage, so my boss at the time bought a macbook pro and holy crap, i fell in love (wasn't my first time on mac, but was my first time on a fast one). if i could have afforded it, it wouldn't have been a question, 110% Mac