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View Full Version : Problems With Pulldown In After Effects.



Polanski
05-19-2009, 08:23 PM
I applied pulldown to a footage and after checking frame by frame, I discovered that some frames still remain with field and some frames repeat.
Any comment about this?

Thanks


http://www.briancommunications.com/PULL00107.jpg


http://www.briancommunications.com/PULL00106.jpg

Uwe Lansing
05-20-2009, 02:19 AM
It isnīt actually nothing terrible. Itīs a flaw inside of ae but only concerns the preview. After exporting the file everything should be ok.

Polanski
05-20-2009, 07:38 AM
Capice, I exported the project as a TIF sequence and as MOV. Both resulted with the same issue. The frame above is a frame from the TIF sequence.

Uwe Lansing
05-20-2009, 08:08 AM
Weird - I exported it as mov too (photo-jpeg + animation). And after that I couldnīt recognize any interlaced frame. Same mentioned Chris Meyer in his tutorials:
http://www.lynda.com/home/DisplayCourse.aspx?lpk2=487
Hmm, whatīs going on here... :-)

Jordan_S
05-20-2009, 08:16 AM
I would try to remove pulldown using the different options til it was right. AE is a good guesser but it ain't always right.

Isaac_Brody
05-20-2009, 09:36 AM
I think it's a bug on the mac side. Pulldown didn't work for me either but PC side people seem to be having better luck.

Park Edwards
05-20-2009, 12:09 PM
you can't de-interlace in AE, you have to use Premiere for that. AE can properly remove pulldown, but not de-interlace.

Jordan_S
05-20-2009, 12:21 PM
you can't de-interlace in AE

Yes, you can. Right-click footage/Interpret Footage/Main/Separate Fields (lower or upper first).

Isaac: how did you know she's on a Mac?

Uwe Lansing
05-20-2009, 12:41 PM
... AE can properly remove pulldown..

And after that the footage is deinterlaced, in the majority of cases ;-). Maybe the pc<=>mac thing plays a prominent role.

Isaac_Brody
05-20-2009, 12:44 PM
Yes, you can. Right-click footage/Interpret Footage/Main/Separate Fields (lower or upper first).

Isaac: how did you know she's on a Mac?

I'm not certain, but I'm on a mac and having similar issues in After Effects with interpreting footage to remove pulldown.

Polanski
05-20-2009, 01:36 PM
I've just downloaded the trial version of Cineform NeoScene and this works really great...
Give it a try, it's worth.

Isaac_Brody
05-20-2009, 02:36 PM
Neoscene works perfectly on PC, and should be working correctly on the Mac very soon.

Nighthawk
05-20-2009, 03:34 PM
Neoscene works perfectly on PC, and should be working correctly on the Mac very soon.

If that's the case for Mac then that seems like the way I'm heading. Nice that you got David from Cineform involved to work on this. Maybe you should be the one dropping a dime to Panasonic about the other issues.

Isaac_Brody
05-20-2009, 04:19 PM
If I knew who to get in touch with I would. I have an idea for an approach but won't get to it till next week.

Park Edwards
05-20-2009, 10:36 PM
Yes, you can. Right-click footage/Interpret Footage/Main/Separate Fields (lower or upper first).

Isaac: how did you know she's on a Mac?

that's not de-interlacing. the only way to properly de-interlacing in AE is:

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/kramer_andrew/deinterlace.php

and if it is, by no means is it de-interlacing the footage from a 60i stream. when you import your gh1 footage into AE, you right click interpret footage and apply 3:2 pulldown it does not de-interlace it. chime in when you have sucessfully imported a gh1 clip applied pulldown and de-interlaced in AE. i have a high five waiting.

Uwe Lansing
05-21-2009, 03:01 AM
...when you import your gh1 footage into AE, you right click interpret footage and apply 3:2 pulldown it does not de-interlace it...

Thatīs splitting hairs. After a pulldown removal was made in ae you export the footage as 24p-progressiv. And thatīs it. There is no need for further de-interlacing in pp or so.
Here a short description by Chris Meyer:
http://www.artbeats.com/assets/articles/pdf/pulldown.pdf

Jordan_S
05-21-2009, 04:10 AM
that's not de-interlacing. the only way to properly de-interlacing in AE is:

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/kramer_andrew/deinterlace.php

and if it is, by no means is it de-interlacing the footage from a 60i stream. when you import your gh1 footage into AE, you right click interpret footage and apply 3:2 pulldown it does not de-interlace it. chime in when you have sucessfully imported a gh1 clip applied pulldown and de-interlaced in AE. i have a high five waiting.

You're confusing deinterlacing with removing pulldown. Progressive high-five.

Jordan_S
05-21-2009, 04:43 AM
that's not de-interlacing. the only way to properly de-interlacing in AE is:

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/kramer_andrew/deinterlace.php


No. It is a method.

Park Edwards
05-21-2009, 08:26 AM
You're confusing deinterlacing with removing pulldown. Progressive high-five.

no, i'm not. after the footage is in AE and you guess 3:2 pulldown, it does not de-interlace footage. upper fields first is selected and it's still interlaced...where to now? no high five because unless you have pulled the footage from the gh1 one and rendered out a clip with no interlacing, can't give it to you.

Park Edwards
05-21-2009, 08:27 AM
Thatīs splitting hairs. After a pulldown removal was made in ae you export the footage as 24p-progressiv. And thatīs it. There is no need for further de-interlacing in pp or so.
Here a short description by Chris Meyer:
http://www.artbeats.com/assets/articles/pdf/pulldown.pdf

right you would think so right? but it wasn't the case for me. i rendered out footage to video for windows and it was still interlaced, just as what polanski is getting.

Park Edwards
05-21-2009, 08:28 AM
No. It is a method.

so far only method available.

Park Edwards
05-21-2009, 08:46 AM
heres the settings in AE

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/AEsnap.jpg

here is a clip exported with progressive frames only. Gee, I wonder why it's still interlaced?

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Car3o/VlSnap2.jpg

Uwe Lansing
05-21-2009, 09:06 AM
Ok - letīs figure out where the problem is. Maybe Iīm dense. The pulldown removal looks OK, but what about your export settings? Here a pic mov/photo-jpeg (sorry, only the german version):

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6797/aetut2.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aetut2.jpg)

Field Render: off?

Uwe Lansing
05-21-2009, 10:04 PM
So, there are 2 ways in ae to export your footage.

1. File => Export. - Thatīs only "quick + dirty". Youīre losing a lot of options.
2. Composition => Add to Render Queue. Normally that`s the only way to get the best results out of ae. If you make the proper settings right here youīre gonna get the optimal output.
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/AfterEffects/9.0/WS3878526689cb91655866c1103a4f2dff7-79f0a.html

Polanski
05-23-2009, 09:36 AM
Till now, the only way that works with pulldown is NeoScene. It's quick and cheap. All other methods that I've tried repeat frames and/or leave interlacing in some frames.

Martti Ekstrand
05-23-2009, 09:55 AM
that's not de-interlacing. the only way to properly de-interlacing in AE is:

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/kramer_andrew/deinterlace.php



so far only method available.

Unless you get RE:Visions FieldsKit to do really proper deinterlacing, the method you posted reduces vertical resolution by half.

http://www.revisionfx.com/products/fieldskit/

Which may help with the 1080/24p pulldown problem as well. And it's available for AE, Premiere, FCP, Combustion and Fusion.

Uwe Lansing
05-23-2009, 10:43 AM
Till now, the only way that works with pulldown is NeoScene. All other methods that I've tried repeat frames and/or leave interlacing in some frames.

Iīve done several "inverse telecine" workings with gh1-material until now. Everything is fine - no repeat frames not to mention interlacing frames. AE has the "remove pulldown" feature since a lot of years now (in various versions) and it works correct in the majority of cases. Make a google search run. Sometines, the pulldown-guess isnīt right. Than you can step through the several options manually. But the gh1-pulldown recognizes ae accurate. Itīs a mystery to me, whatīs wrong in your workflow. My crystal ball is really fuzzy at the moment...

Polanski
05-23-2009, 10:45 AM
Martti, do you mean that NeoScene reduces vertical resolution by half or is it about Car3o method?

Polanski
05-23-2009, 10:49 AM
capice, I made a test using all method of pulldown in AE, not leaving it to guess and all of them came out with the same problem. Did you check frame by frame? Maybe the German version doesn't have the problem, only the English one

Uwe Lansing
05-23-2009, 11:09 AM
... Did you check frame by frame?

Sure :-). But tell me:

- after importing the footage in the project panel, did you make the "remove pulldown" first? Donīt drag it down to the tl (new composition icon) before it has been done.
- pc or mac?
- where do you check your footage after exporting?
- do you use the "render queue" with the correct settings?

Martti Ekstrand
05-23-2009, 01:45 PM
Martti, do you mean that NeoScene reduces vertical resolution by half or is it about Car3o method?
I meant the method in the Creative Cow tutorial Car3o pointed to.

Polanski
05-23-2009, 03:44 PM
capice, I did exactly this:

1-import footage
2-right click->interpret footage->main
3-guess pulldow (also tried manual with all options)
4-drag and drop into "create new composition" icon.
5-click in menu composition->add to render cue
6-render the comp as TIFF sec

I check every rendered tiff in photoshop and in any other tiff viewer.

I'm on PC

There's a problem with the English version...IT DOES NOT WORK...

Uwe Lansing
05-24-2009, 02:10 AM
capice, I did exactly this:
.............
6-render the comp as TIFF sec

I check every rendered tiff in photoshop ...

Odd things are going on here. Ok - I went the same way and guess what - I got the same result => around 20 interlaced frames. I took the 00004.mts-clip. Pretty much the same with avi-uncompressed. Than I took my QT/Photo-Jpeg and `wonder of wonders`everything is fine.

Afterwards I checked all that stuff in AE, frame by frame, and `surprise, surprise`everything worked a treat => no repeat frames, no interlaced frames. So, whatīs the game here? I donīt know. Maybe PS has some problems with this kind of footage? I would assume, that normally it should be ok when the playback in nleīs, ae and players works without problems. But, who knows?

Park Edwards
05-24-2009, 10:16 AM
is your 3:2 pulldown wwssw?

Uwe Lansing
05-24-2009, 11:09 AM
is your 3:2 pulldown wwssw?

Yes, thatīs what ae guesses.

Park Edwards
05-24-2009, 04:39 PM
well, the trick to de-interlacing the clip is to actually make a new composition.
but it still has skipped or repeating frames using wwssww for 3:2 pulldown in AE. i'm not even going to waste any more time trying to figure out the proper pulldown. i'm going to just use cineform

Uwe Lansing
05-24-2009, 10:04 PM
You must do whatever makes you happy, thatīs fine. - But once again, in my case there are no repeated and no skipped frames. Iīd recommend to everyone who is interested in buying the gh1 => give it a try, compare it with the neoscene trial... and make your own decision. For me personally, itīs not so important cos iīm in a pal-land. I was just interested in doing it in order to understand the problems with this kind of stuff, apparently los americanos will have.

Park Edwards
05-25-2009, 10:47 AM
capice are you working with pal or ntsc footage? and how are you testing whether not not there are any skipped or repeated frames?

Uwe Lansing
05-25-2009, 12:27 PM
Of course ntsc-material. I take the exported clip and scrub through it. In scenes with motion skipped or repeated frames would be pretty obvious. Donīt evaluate the original footage in the tl after pulldown removal was made ;-)

Park Edwards
05-25-2009, 04:56 PM
i think it comes down to your AE having magical powers

Polanski
05-25-2009, 10:00 PM
Hey, I haven't done much with more than one clip, but I think there's solution.
If you use the AVCHD to DVCPRO Transcoder and then bring the MXF to after effects, it works ok... no repeated frames, no interlace after doing the pulldown removal.
Check it out... It works...

Uwe Lansing
05-25-2009, 11:00 PM
i think it comes down to your AE having magical powers

Yep, and i just came back from a comfortable broomstick ride. - Seriously, if both of us do the same and we end up in different results - mine are fine, yours kinda quirky - what could be the reason? Perhaps there is something wrong with your decoder? Iīm stumped. But download "GraphStudio" and take a look which decoder is high up on your system:
http://www.digital-digest.com/software/GraphStudio1.html

@ polanski
Glad to hear, iīll give it a try. But this could really mean, that there are codec problems at work. Has anyone of you installed a codec pack? Sometimes it causes issues.