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Rabot
05-18-2009, 02:58 PM
I have a question about the workflow and the codec. They might have been answered somewhere else but I haven't got the answer myself.

First,

I have worked with my DVX for quite a long time, the cam had few dropped frames and such, never really stopped working for no reason. The camera is still in great shape and I'm pretty happy with it.

I was wondering if all those artifact thing i've reading about in the GH1 is worst than working with mini dv in general. (drop trame, aquisition and such)

I'd like to have people imput on that (and people that worked with avchd or P2 stuff).

sidereal
05-18-2009, 04:04 PM
I have a question about the workflow and the codec. I was wondering if all those artifact thing i've reading about in the GH1 is worst than working with mini dv in general. (drop trame, aquisition and such)?

it'd be worst if your computer is not up to the speed and power required to decode AVCHD which is a relative new video format that is very demanding on the hardware side of things, that's why much of NLE software is just starting to catch up with it.

Based on my experience, you need the following to be able to successfully run, produce and play .MTS files on your computer:

1. A powerful computer: Mac or PC with at least 2.2 Ghz Dual or Quad Core CPU, 2-4 Gbs Ram, an ATI or Nvidia 256-500M HD Graphics Accelerator, etc.

2. A good hardware or software encoder and decoder. And this is very important. In the playback side, there are several AVCHD decoders out there, neither of them will render a quality video signal (bluriness), except for a very few like cyberlink and my favorite: the one that comes natively installed with Windows 7 rc or

3. If you have a Blu-ray player like the Sony PS3, try it out. It will play your AVCHD aka .MTS files flawlessly on an Plasma, LCD or OLED HDTV.

Hope this helps!

BrianMurphy
05-18-2009, 05:21 PM
To screen your footage you can also use one of these and they are quite inexpensive:
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572
As for AVCHD it is not easy to work with right now. I use a Mac platform and it is a pain in the ....well you get the point and others can tell you about working with NLE systems based on Microsoft's OS but I don't think it is great there either maybe just better than Apple's band-aid remedy of log and transfer for Intel based systems only. The pre Intel folks with working edit systems have to "order out" or re-tool.
I am hoping the workflow is a "work in progress" and will improve soon. It is hardly as consistent and reliable as DVCam. My opinion based on my experience with my HMC150.

Rabot
05-18-2009, 09:06 PM
Ok, so I have an Imac G5, will this work?

I downlaoded few mts files and watched them with , huh, valtactis? and it was working right.

Would it be possible to capture the video with some capture card out of the USB to composite? I guess it would be the easiest way right?

ydgmdlu
05-19-2009, 03:53 AM
Would it be possible to capture the video with some capture card out of the USB to composite? I guess it would be the easiest way right?
That makes no sense on multiple levels.

caseyhayward
05-19-2009, 04:50 AM
Apple's band-aid remedy of log and transfer for Intel based systems only. The pre Intel folks with working edit systems have to "order out" or re-tool.

This is not really true. it is quite possible to work with avchd on a pre-intel mac with "Voltaic" which isn't all that different from the extra step of using FCP's log and transfer.


I am hoping the workflow is a "work in progress" and will improve soon. It is hardly as consistent and reliable as DVCam. My opinion based on my experience with my HMC150.

Couldn't agree more. What a pain. Even Panasonic's P2 workflow on FCP leaves something to be desired. I'm intrigued by the JVC camera that shoots native prores but not enough to sink $3K into it. I wish other companies would try that out.

ydgmdlu
05-19-2009, 07:57 AM
I'm intrigued by the JVC camera that shoots native prores but not enough to sink $3K into it. I wish other companies would try that out.
AFAIK, the new JVC doesn't record "native ProRes." That would be ridiculous, considering the storage requirements. Instead, the camera records QuickTime files. If I'm not mistaken, the actual codec is based on XDCAM EX, which is based on HDV.

Nitsuj
05-19-2009, 09:35 AM
Has anybody tried this on a new Macbook Pro with FCS 2 yet? I am picking up a new Mackbook Pro 2.9Ghz soon and was wondering how that is working for people.

BrianMurphy
05-19-2009, 09:58 AM
I log and transfer with my 3 year old MacBook Pro 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo with 2 gigs of ram. I use it to back etc. I am waiting to buy another Mac, a tower, but will wait until the new FCS comes oout and see what remedy Apple has for AVCHD then make a decision. I am going to try to work with my G5 2.7 Dual while waiting combined with the MacBook. But who know .. As for Voltaic I have read mixed reports on it and admit have not tried it.

Rabot
05-19-2009, 02:39 PM
But isn't that the format that the HMC and HPX170 uses?
Otherwise could you use a video signal to record on a firestore and take the footage out of it?

I'm just bringing out idead, I have no clue about every format and codec out there?

Basicly I have the choice of getting a used HMC150, the GH1 or keeping my DVX. I'll tell you about the my pro's and con about those cam.

GH1 advantage (imo) over HMC/DVX
Size : since I'm the kind of guy that film about everywhere and having that thing would be easier to bring out and such.
Sensor Size
Iso setting (defenitly better in low light, afaik, but please correct me)
Good glass (but pricey over getting lenses for a prosumer cam)

HMC DVX over GH1
Pro audio: XLR and such
I where my setting on those, and they're easy to use, no menu and such.
More Stable (??????????????)

Those are the point that are important to me. I'm still just wandering what should I do. I know that even getting a HMC would prolly be more expensive (maybe not if I plan on getting a firestore or a XLR adapter box thing for the GH1).

Maybe knowing I have a Imac g5 could help you out to help me decide what would I need the most.

ydgmdlu
05-19-2009, 03:04 PM
Rabot, please do your homework. I'm talking about the most basic stuff, the stuff that could be found with just a few seconds of Googling or browsing the forums here.

The GH1 records video to SD flash cards. You can get an inexpensive USB card reader anywhere (including Wal-Mart), for around $10 or less. There is no easier way to download clips to your computer. Many laptops even have SD card readers built into them. My $300 MSI netbook has one.

By definition, a composite signal is analog and standard definition. There's no point in trying to capture the composite signal.

For advice on the workflow, there's plenty of it in the Workflow forum.

Nitsuj
05-19-2009, 03:06 PM
As a filmmaker I see the benefits like this.

DVX / HVX Videocam
Pro - detailed manual controls
more widely accepted formats
audio capabilities in one unit
When people see it they know it is a video camera and react accordingly
Cons - bulky and heavy
Need a pricey adapter for a lens which leads to
Pricey
When people see it they know it is a video camera and react accordingly

GH1
Pros - manual controls over other DSLR's
chip size and HD quality
Lens selection galore
Light weight
Price
When people see it they know it is a still camera and react accordingly
Cons - limited support for the format at this time
light weight means jerky movements unless secured
audio on body limited
When people see it they know it is a still camera and react accordingly

So the way I see it is it has some down sides and upsides but the bottom line is great for the price. As a new filmmaker you could limit the nervous reactions you get from actors in front of the camera because it's not as intimidating to be in front of a "still" camera as it is a big scary looking video camera. At the same time you could show up to a shoot with it and people snicker believing you to be the silly guy that brings a still camera to a video shoot. However the image quality out of this thing is proving to be right up there with the rest and that makes it exciting and fresh. This for sure is the camera I am going with for it's capabilities and downsides. The audio capability is not much different than having a good film camera. You still have to use an external audio system. I think that just opens up more opportunities for creativity with audio if you ask me. DVX was what I used to dream about owning years ago in school but now it's the little GH1 making all the fuss that I dream of today. This time it won't be a dream because it is drastically more achievable than the DVX was when it first made it's rounds. It's the perfect tool to tell a story in an artistic way but doesn't come at a price that can hold you back.

Rabot
05-19-2009, 03:43 PM
Rabot, please do your homework. I'm talking about the most basic stuff, the stuff that could be found with just a few seconds of Googling or browsing the forums here.

The GH1 records video to SD flash cards. You can get an inexpensive USB card reader anywhere (including Wal-Mart), for around $10 or less. There is no easier way to download clips to your computer. Many laptops even have SD card readers built into them. My $300 MSI netbook has one.



I'm just wondering then why there's a whole forum about the workflow if it's has simple as draging the clip out of a SD card?

ydgmdlu
05-19-2009, 03:58 PM
I think that you're misunderstanding the workflow issue. And I can imagine why. The workflow is very simple and straightforward with DV. It's been well-established for many years.

The AVCHD workflow is complicated because there are two aspects of it. The first one is getting the clips onto your computer. The second is working with those clips. AVCHD was designed for tapeless acquisition. So no matter if a camcorder is recording to an internal hard drive, internal flash memory, or a flash card, the footage will ways be downloaded simply by copying files.

Once the files are on your computer, you have to figure out a way to work with them. Not all editors fully support AVCHD. The only major NLE that doesn't offer native AVCHD editing is Final Cut. To use FCP, you have to go through a small workaround (the Log and Transfer). Another issue is the editing timebase. Do you want 24p, 30p, or 60? There's no straightforward way of working with 24p, since the signal is recorded as 60i, just like with the DVX. Most of the discussion in the Workflow forum is about how to get 24p from 60i, 60p, or 30p.

Despite all of that, I still prefer the AVCHD workflow to DV, for no other reason than I hate capturing from tape.

Nitsuj
05-19-2009, 03:59 PM
I'm just wondering then why there's a whole forum about the workflow if it's has simple as draging the clip out of a SD card?

It's not about simplicity but about understanding the difference in analogue and digital media. Understanding the difference between the two will answer the question.

ydgmdlu
05-19-2009, 04:06 PM
It's not about simplicity but about understanding the difference in analogue and digital media. Understanding the difference between the two will answer the question.
???

The DVX shoots digital... Don't confuse him. He's already confused enough as it is.

Rabot
05-19-2009, 05:16 PM
Oh another is that english is not my first language, I do know most of the stuff you're telling me, I just have a hard time speaking on my own.

AVCHD is the codec right?
Then sending the footage to (let say) a Firestore (that, I think use it's own codec?) would probably skip the whole AVCHD problem? But them correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh and I know paying a Firestore for that issue is quite alot but I'm just wondering if it would skip that AVCHD codec /framerate problem.

(and again, I don't know all the spec of the firestore product, i just know what they do)

ydgmdlu
05-19-2009, 05:53 PM
Using an external video recording device is not possible. The camera does not output a live video signal while recording. This was established on page #1 of Kholi's big thread. The HDMI-out is only useful for playing back recorded clips. There is no way of bypassing the AVCHD encoding.

Again, this is extremely basic information that takes only a few minutes to find and read yourself. It's not just a matter of wasting our time, but your own. If you can find the information yourself, why wait for other people to try to understand and answer your questions?

Rabot
05-19-2009, 08:30 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and post up some answers to questions before I do a full write-up:

1. LIVE HDMI = No. Doesn't Look like so, folks.

2. USB to Composite Video Cable Included = Thanks Panasonic!


That's what I was wondering about, what does it do then? playback too? if it was crystal clear I wouldn't ask, thanks again for thinking i'm some kind of retard.

Oh, and yeah, I didn't red the whole thread, I admit.


(but yeah, I doubted it would send the information while recodring, I just didn,t find the answer anywhere)

Nighthawk
05-19-2009, 09:43 PM
That's what I was wondering about, what does it do then? playback too? if it was crystal clear I wouldn't ask, thanks again for thinking i'm some kind of retard.

Oh, and yeah, I didn't red the whole thread, I admit.



Understandable if English isn't your first language and I assure you that nobody is regarding you as a retard though that did make me chuckle a bit. The problem is that so much info has been discussed over the last while it seems your questions take us all a step back when we've been following the threads so long. Your questions are valid but like the rest of us you have to wait until firm info becomes available. if it wasn't stated in past posts it certainly will be announced in future ones. It's awkward, I know, but much is yet to be determined.

Rabot
05-19-2009, 09:59 PM
Alright, I know everyone is asking question, it just seem to good to br true.