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View Full Version : Firmware update is on the way for the 5D



yoclay
05-10-2009, 03:41 PM
New arrivals at the Cinema 5D forum (possibly working for Canon) just announced that they are testing the new firmware and it may be here by June.

kingsta
05-10-2009, 07:43 PM
wow you have a link??

dadoboy
05-10-2009, 08:00 PM
Check out the forums at cinema5d,com. The technical forum.
I have my doubts that manual control will be as simple as downloading a firmware update. Possibly will need to send the camera in for something more done under the hood. I'm just speculating though. It's all up in the air.

Emanuel
05-10-2009, 08:16 PM
Anyone could go there and post silly things only for entertainment. I recommend the traditional 'wait and see'. Any information on the poster's background?

TimurCivan
05-10-2009, 08:52 PM
Nono... this is real.....

:) seriously..... at least 24p is....

im getting a 5D VERY soon because of this...

Kholi
05-10-2009, 08:56 PM
I know manual controls exist for sure. But 24P wasn't part of it. If that's a new for sure then I guess I'll be buyin' me'an MKii body as well.

Zack Birlew
05-10-2009, 10:43 PM
Could have used it a while back when I needed it, oh well. It may be arriving too late for Scarlet though. Still, even though I say this, the thing to remember is that normal people out on the streets, in malls, etc. may not buy the Scarlet as a stills camera even in a barebones configuration. However, they see Canon or Nikon then you're just some guy taking a photo. So, even though the 5D Mark II has, no pun intended, missed the mark for many, it may still serve a useful purpose in certain situations.

Although, let's not forget, this is a rumor right now until there's an official announcement. 24p, manual controls, none of that can be confirmed or denied as part of the firmware update. So far, all we've got hitting the rumor mill over and over again is manual controls. 24p is still being tossed up in the air in terms of rumor frequency.

TimurCivan
05-10-2009, 11:43 PM
but this is the flaw in that thinking.... "they missed the mark"

no they didint. They nailed the mark in the face with a sledgehammer, then set the coprse on fire and drove a monster truck over it.

The mark is a sub 3K body that delivers 21.1 MP and has some of the cleanest noise signature ive ever seen.... The video thing is an after thought. As a STill photgrapher the 5D mII is AMAZING.

thekreative
05-11-2009, 12:10 AM
hey Timur, that's my thoughts as well but I still can't believe how good the video is with no real control. I shoot with it everyday (still and motion). The work around is no more hard for me than all the stuff I do with my 35mm adapter rig and any f-stop and crazy low light ability.

TimurCivan
05-11-2009, 12:37 AM
but thats my point.... the video mode is a blessing! dont look the gift horse....

but guess what... that horse is soon going to turn into a thorough bred....

TheRealMe
05-11-2009, 06:29 AM
If they add manual control AND 24fps, then it's a done deal for me. This combo would make it my perfect video cam! Not to mention I would now have a killer DSRL. For me, the 5DMKII gain a lot of points for it's stealth nature.

daveswan
05-11-2009, 08:14 AM
If they add manual control I will most probably buy (Finances permitting) even without 24P (Would rather have 25P). Still looking at manual glass, and at a rapidly depleting bank balance

reem12
05-11-2009, 08:23 AM
I was on shooting some night time footage on beal st. in memphis in may, and all I can say is this 5d shoots footage that looks on par as $100,000 cams. utterly ridiculas low light capability. and noise was not an issue.

If canon gives me the 24p, i'm looking to get another one. Oh and as timur has said the stills alone warrants the price. It leaves the pani in the dust when it comes to still shooting.

filmmaker's gang
05-11-2009, 08:28 AM
Nono... this is real.....

:) seriously..... at least 24p is....

im getting a 5D VERY soon because of this...how do you know?

filmmaker's gang
05-11-2009, 08:28 AM
I know manual controls exist for sure.how do you know?

Finster
05-11-2009, 09:28 AM
All these firmware rumors are driving me insane.

Still, I decided I'd be content if Canon never releases this supposed firmware update. Disappointment, yes. But still content. I have some older Nikon AIS glass, so I'll make do.

Sooooooooo, I purchased the 5DM2 yesterday from Adorama!!!!!!! I'm super excited.

TimurCivan
05-11-2009, 09:52 AM
how do you know?

i know these things....

a famous DP is currently testing 5 of them out on a very popular network adventure show....

acoelho1
05-11-2009, 10:54 AM
i know these things....

a famous DP is currently testing 5 of them out on a very popular network adventure show....


Do you know if this testing include manual control over aperture, shutter and iso as well.

TimurCivan
05-11-2009, 11:05 AM
no idea i just know it does 24p...



however, it seems to me that manual control is an electronic function. so presumably its a strong possibilty.

booggerg2
05-11-2009, 11:39 AM
I know manual controls exist for sure. But 24P wasn't part of it. If that's a new for sure then I guess I'll be buyin' me'an MKii body as well.

Kholi: based on what you know, is it full manual? (aperture,shutter,ISO) ?


i know these things....

a famous DP is currently testing 5 of them out on a very popular network adventure show....

That would make sense if they are introducing 24P also in the upgrade.. I would think if it's only a manual control update, then there is less need to do all of that testing.. 24P is trickier and would require more real-world beta testing.

alexandroff
05-11-2009, 11:47 AM
I know manual controls exist for sure. But 24P wasn't part of it.



no idea i just know it does 24p...


interesting...

voltes
05-11-2009, 11:48 AM
I can see a 5dmk2 in my future. :)

Kholi
05-11-2009, 12:15 PM
Best Buy has a stock of 'em.

I'll grab one purely to have around for lil' rentals. Let it pay itself off. =D

Finster
05-12-2009, 10:37 AM
This was posted today on Cinema5D ...

---------

I have it from an absolutely reputable source, the 5DM2's were tested for use on 'Ironman II" with " Upgraded Firmware". The cameras were not chosen for use due to sound issues and in this application focus was going to have to be done through the monitor and not the lense. They went with the Silicon Graphics SK1 used on Slumdog.
Point being the Firmware Upgrade does exist, how or when the rest of us are going to get it is the question.

---------

Gotta love the rumor mill! :beer:

Tracey Lee
05-12-2009, 12:54 PM
This was posted today on Cinema5D ...

---------

I have it from an absolutely reputable source, the 5DM2's were tested for use on 'Ironman II" with " Upgraded Firmware". The cameras were not chosen for use due to sound issues and in this application focus was going to have to be done through the monitor and not the lense. They went with the Silicon Graphics SK1 used on Slumdog.
Point being the Firmware Upgrade does exist, how or when the rest of us are going to get it is the question.

---------

Gotta love the rumor mill! :beer:

Sounds like a rumor within a rumor.

I just have one question, why would a Hollywood film maker not use a camera based on its "sound issues"? External sound capturing equipment is always used on any set where they will require decent sound.

puredrifting
05-12-2009, 02:30 PM
My 5D MKII arrived Friday. Have been to busy camping and editing to actually shoot anything yet but just in playing with it in the office, pretty sweet with my Nikon AIs. Also bought the Z-Finder and the Singh-Ray VariND for it. Will be shooting a lot of cool stuff with it next week. I hope that all of these manual control rumors are true. The hacks are a pain but it is a workable camera for a lot of different situations.

Also received the Zoom H4N. Nice sounding unit!

Dan

Finster
05-12-2009, 02:30 PM
Lifted from canonrumors.com ...

-------------------------------

From Planet5D

“the crew working on the next Harry Potter movie has 2 Canon EOS 5D Mark II cameras on set for filming. And, they’re using Panavision lenses on the 5D2s.”

TimurCivan
05-12-2009, 03:05 PM
that sounds like a tall tale....

HP franchise is not goingto use a 5d MKII... MAYBE for a bit of extra coverage or an insert shot...

Isaac_Brody
05-12-2009, 06:32 PM
Ha, so the rumor went from this camera is being used on Iron Man II to they chose not to use it because of the hassle. Harry Potter, really? It must be a REALLY slow week on canonrumors. :)

alexandroff
05-12-2009, 06:44 PM
the whole Iron Man theme is amazing... sounds almost like someone wanted to see how far one can really push the rumor line...

why would a well planned production say, hmm... lets hold on for a moment and test this camera new firmware here so we can save a bit on a using expensive one...

funds are the least of worries on such productions as well as monkeying around 'testing' smth as well...maybe the security guard on the set is testing it...

i do believe firmware is coming, the hack effort is also showing some progress, so we'll definitely get something...

Daniel L.
05-12-2009, 07:45 PM
Well if it was just one case I would never buy it.

There have been multiple sources that have confirmed the use of the 5D2 on Iron Man II, some of which carry some weight (for example TV Guide). So this is not something I can just shake off. It's really not our place to say who and how the camera can be used.

It has been used on theatrical feature films already, this is no rumor. It has been used on very big productions for a fact. On iron man? Who knows!

puredrifting
05-12-2009, 07:45 PM
The obvious direction someone should investigate would be what the DVD Bonus crew was shooting with. I could totally see shooting BTS with the 5D MKII. Typically short takes, repeatable actions as the crew shoots multiple takes. That way, rumor gets out that the 5D MKII is "being used" on Ironman II.

Not sure who is shooting BTS on Ironman II but I know that New Wave Entertainment usually handles the Harry Potters. Zak F, any ideas on all of this?

Dan

Daniel L.
05-12-2009, 07:57 PM
It makes no sense to me for someone to use it for BTS work instead of a camcorder, there is just no need for it. Maybe for a sit down interview..

I think it will be best to wait until the film is released. Our speculation of how, why, and where it was used is no better than the original rumor.

Unless of course someone here has inside information...

ChipG
05-12-2009, 08:34 PM
Unless of course someone here has inside information...

I can find out, really doubt it will be used in the movie unless they want a POV driver jello shot from a fast moving military vehicle in the desert or something like that. Probably for BTS stuff and stills.

ChipG
05-12-2009, 08:49 PM
This was posted today on Cinema5D ...

---------

I have it from an absolutely reputable source, the 5DM2's were tested for use on 'Ironman II" with " Upgraded Firmware". The cameras were not chosen for use due to sound issues and in this application focus was going to have to be done through the monitor and not the lense. They went with the Silicon Graphics SK1 used on Slumdog.
Point being the Firmware Upgrade does exist, how or when the rest of us are going to get it is the question.

---------

Gotta love the rumor mill! :beer:

I call bullshi* on this rumor, I didn't read this post before I made the one above. No way they would turn down the 5DII for sound issues, sound would never even be considered from anything less than a $250k field recorder, they use it for film and they can't use it for a 5DII? BULLshi* and the cam used in Slumdog was a SI2k Mini (THE MINI not the big SI Cam) and agian it's probably for a driver shot inside a fast moving mlitary vehicle or Hum Vee.

Good way to promote the cam until people figure out it's not true then it gets the rap for not being good enough to be used in Iron Man II.

I'll look into it but I'd almost be willing to bet you a 5DII that it is being used for BTS video stuff and stills, after all it is a great way to shoot a director or set without bothering him with a big shoulder mount cam on his set.

Daniel L.
05-12-2009, 08:52 PM
ChipG,

I look forward to hear what you discover.

dadoboy
05-12-2009, 09:02 PM
It also might be used as a stills camera on set OMG! 21MP would be great for shooting static plates.

Finster
05-13-2009, 05:33 AM
This guy over on Cinema5D (http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2396) is working on his own 5DM2 firmware hack. :huh:

Canon, stop the madness! Give us a firmware update!

puredrifting
05-13-2009, 07:00 AM
If there is a new firmware, Canon will release it in their own sweet time. With the 5D MKII production still not keeping up with demand worldwide, why rush it? None of the Japanese manufacturers do things for the users, they do them to make money and enhance sales.

The people who really care about this update are statistically very small in number in relation to the worldwide 5D MKII sales. It is a still camera that shoots video after all.

Dan

Daniel L.
05-13-2009, 07:41 AM
No reason it can't appeal to both the stills and video market at the same time. Keep in mind that no other video camera can do what the 5D Mark II can in this price range.

When I decided to get the 5D Mark II, I already needed a video camera. I was ready to grab a new Panasonic camcorder, got the Canon 5D Mark II instead. So instead of Panasonic getting my sale it was Canon and I seriously doubt I'm the only one!
Since then I have purchased 4 Canon batteries, 3 Canon lenses, and an AC adapter.

They came so close! If it only had manual control to begin with... Canon really lost an opportunity I doubt they will get again. It's still in their best interest to release firmware asap...

puredrifting
05-13-2009, 09:27 AM
It makes no sense to me for someone to use it for BTS work instead of a camcorder, there is just no need for it. Maybe for a sit down interview.

I shoot BTS and DVD bonus material for a living. It would totally make sense to use a 5D MKII for BTS footage because of the reasons I outlined, if someone wanted to try it in order to obtain the look. Often, you are shooting under low light and often, it would be nice to have shallow depth of field, the two things that the 5D MKII are great at.

When shooting on set, you have highly repeatable action in a controlled environment and as a shooter, you can kind of shoot whatever you want. You shoot so much footage that it really isn't usually crucial to catch every bit of what is happening, it is crucial to catch the best moments that can be woven into a story or a featurette. Sitting there as the crew readies to take 17 of the same shot, same angle, it gets boring if you have already covered the scene from multiple angles and takes. Having something like the 5D to play with could actually be quite a kick.

Dan

Daniel L.
05-13-2009, 09:52 AM
Well the reason I said that is that I have never seen a BTS video aiming for a cinematic look. It should have production value, but you're not shooting a movie. The idea is to be able to show whats going on, shallow DoF is a disadvantage. Whats the point of that?

Shooting with the 5D Mark II makes sense to me in a controlled environment, but BTS is not a controlled environment. You can't stop the production and ask them to do it again because you accidentally missed focus. Furthermore, with the lens wide open under low light conditions your DoF is hair pin. With the full frame sensor you have to really pick and choose what can be in view. Unlike a EX1 for example where you have auto focus and it's a lot more forgiving. Just point and shoot, much simpler.

I suppose you are the expert in this area, I have never been involved in BTS production myself. If you think it works, I guess it does :)

puredrifting
05-13-2009, 10:09 AM
Well, I have about 500 DVD featurettes, EPK and BTS shoots and every single one of them have been shot 24P, many have been shot with the Varicam and F900 tweaked to look as filmic as possible.

Most of my clients HATE the interlaced look. Contrary to your thought, most of the studios want the EPK and BTS to look as cinematic as the film, within reason. The exceptions might be HBO First Look or shooting an assignment specifically for Access Hollywood types of shows but most of the stuff I shoot goes straight to the studios, who then distribute it via services like www.epk.tv

The studios, for the most part, definitely want 24p, shallow depth of field, killer lighting, great looking high end interviews. The days of a guy with a Betacam and an on-camera light blasting away on set are way done, a lot of BTS and EPK stuff now is shot with the same gear as the film or television show is using (when they are shooting on digital).

Dan

ChipG
05-13-2009, 03:58 PM
I was just watching an interview of J.J Abrams talking about Star Trek, guess what cam it was filmed on?

Yep, the 5DII.

J.J. said he has one and asked the guy shootng it several questions about his matte box and rail setup.

ChipG
05-13-2009, 04:02 PM
Here is a link to the J.J. 5DII interview.

http://www.littlewhitelies.co.uk/tv/jj-abrams-exclusive-star-trek-interview/

Daniel L.
05-13-2009, 04:05 PM
Here is a post by the guy that shot that interview:

http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2360

puredrifting
05-13-2009, 06:20 PM
Oh yeah, I saw that clip. EX1 for side angle, 5D MKII for main shot. The 5D MKII looks better.

Dan

tfg
05-14-2009, 08:25 AM
Just to get back on topic here -- I do not own a 5DM2, and I would not buy it unless/until this firmware update comes out. My fingers are crossed and I'm greatly anticipating...as I'm sure all of you are.

puredrifting
05-14-2009, 08:48 AM
I just bought the 5D MKII. I must say that with Nikon lenses, so far, the hacks to control the shutter speed and ISO are not too bad. Manual would be a lot better but the camera does at least seem predictable in the algorithm it uses to determine ISO and shutter speed. I can't understand how anyone could shoot video very easily using the Canon lenses, that would be too much. At least with the Nikons, I can easily control DOF.

Dan

TheRealMe
05-14-2009, 09:59 AM
Is it possible to trick shutter speed? If so, how do you do it?

puredrifting
05-14-2009, 10:30 AM
The shutter speed and ISO are tied together unfortunately. You cannot individually adjust either. You begin to notice how the algorithm works after using it for a few hours.

Dan

Finster
05-14-2009, 01:50 PM
Dan - perhaps this should be in another thread, but you wrote, "the hacks to control the shutter speed and ISO are not too bad."

What hacks are you using? Are you doing the gray card thing?

My 5DM2 us supposed to arrive tomorrow.

puredrifting
05-14-2009, 02:55 PM
Yup, gray card on iPod Touch. It takes a lot of experimentation and I am still working on getting the combinations that I want but at least you can get some consistency.

There is a music video over on the Cinema 5D website that the user Antiplastik created with the 5D where he used this same hack and consistently obtained 1/60th shutter and 100 ISO for his entire music video shoot. It just takes work to do it and a sh***oad of light and grip gear. This isn't going to be a practical approach for run and gun but for a real shoot with lights and crew, it can be done and look amazing. http://vimeo.com/4434571

It is a great camera, I am really enjoying it. Firmware update would be nice but even without it, it is a fun toy, this totally reminds me of shooting 16mm with my K3, PITA but the images are great if you know what you are doing. Still keeping my HPX170 for paying clients though.

Dan

Daniel L.
05-14-2009, 03:45 PM
From personal experience, and what other users have shared its really not difficult to get the setting you want. Sure it's inconvenient but still practical. It takes maybe 10 seconds to lock what I need. That's not bad at all.

You have SOME control thanks to exposure compensation, up to 4 stops of adjustment and that's plenty. Just get it roughly in the ballpark and dial it the rest of the way. By now I don't mind doing it at all, just became routine.

Under different circumstances I would say this is silly. But the quality of video I get out of this thing makes it all worth it.

Buck Forester
05-15-2009, 12:36 PM
I heard they had the 5D Mark II on set of the new Batman 3D movie and were ready to use it until they realized the Mark II doesn't do 3D. Plus the on-camera sound needs more horsepower, it just wasn't handling the sound effects very well. Just a rumor.

kprince
05-15-2009, 03:14 PM
I heard they had the 5D Mark II on set of the new Batman 3D movie and were ready to use it until they realized the Mark II doesn't do 3D. Plus the on-camera sound needs more horsepower, it just wasn't handling the sound effects very well. Just a rumor.

I highly doubt the legitimacy of this post. More so, I doubt they would even begin to try to "handle" the "sound effects" at ALL. Batman 3, 5D, why ? Maybe for interviews or making of, but not the actual film, no way. Maybe the making of will have some awesome sound effects !

Alan Bradley
05-15-2009, 03:21 PM
He He. I'm almost positive that he was kidding about the Batman thing.

Daniel L.
05-15-2009, 03:37 PM
There are a lot of reasons for why a 5D may be useful on a feature, especially if they have manual control.

1) 5D Mark II is relatively dirt cheap.
2) You can easily have 5, 7, 10 of them rolling on set at any one time. You can get as much coverage as you want. You just have one $250,000 cinema camera.
3) The director can operate one by hand, without needing any kind of extra support.
4) The video quality is very good and will cut with 35mm better than most other alternatives.
5) They can use the same type of lenses and get a very similar look.
6) It's small and does not attract any attention. Often the problem is when people are looking at the camera, often they are tricked by having a fake production unit and another hidden. The 5D is perfect for this.
7) You don't need a lot of production support. It's a lot cheaper to shoot with, much easier to transport, much easier to setup. Directors/producers love things like that.

There have already been big feature films, music videos, commercials, etc done with video shot by the 5D Mark II for the reasons listed above. Just do a google search and you can read about them. Start with Fox Searchlight's Notorious.

I don't doubt people are in fact using them on big productions because the fact is that it already has been. The rumors are stacking up with Iron Man II, Harry Potter, now batman? Who knows! Maybe it's all BS.. Maybe not :)

yoclay
05-15-2009, 04:16 PM
The output of the 5D is nowhere near the level of that kind of production. No way Jose. A little reality please.

PappasArts
05-15-2009, 06:41 PM
The batman thing was a joke people...... Stupid joke, however a joke nevertheless.

The guys a " Joker"...........


.
Michael Pappas
Main Web Site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms

Anamorphic Lens test images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }

Humanoid Typhoon
05-15-2009, 06:42 PM
It's not so far fetched (as far as a non-3d movie I mean). Crank 2 used XH-A1's and some lowly consumer HDV canon camcorders. Doesn't it have a sensor BIGGER than the Red's?

PappasArts
05-15-2009, 07:07 PM
It's not so far fetched (as far as a non-3d movie I mean). Crank 2 used XH-A1's and some lowly consumer HDV canon camcorders. Doesn't it have a sensor BIGGER than the Red's?

I agree, and the 5D MII is a phenomenal camera, however he was just joking though.


.
Michael Pappas
Main Web Site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms

Anamorphic DSLR Lens Test Images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }

ChipG
05-16-2009, 02:46 AM
The batman thing was a joke people...... Stupid joke, however a joke nevertheless.

The guys a " Joker"...........


.
Michael Pappas
Main Web Site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms

Anamorphic Lens test images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }

Heh? the upcoming 5DIII s not a 3D camera?

Buck Forester
05-16-2009, 06:06 AM
I was obviously goofin' about the Batman 3D thing. I was just playin' off the other silly "rumor" that they were contemplating the 5D Mark II for Iron Man II but the sound capabilities of the camera were lacking. Ya, as if they're gonna make a $100 meeeellion dollar movie and record sound by plugging a mic directly into a DSLR camera, ha! Am I really having to explain this? :)

daveswan
05-16-2009, 10:20 AM
Too many really intense guys with a low sense-of-humour quotient. I got it at once :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

puredrifting
05-16-2009, 01:24 PM
Too many really intense guys with a low sense-of-humour quotient. (DBG)

That's a great description of many of the boards in this industry. Good one! ;-)

Dan