Got the Zacutos Z-Finder

[benn]

Yesterday I got the Z-Finder for my 5 D MK II. My first Impression: A very helpful tool what could save in many situations an external monitor.
The Z-Finder Is made from plastic, but in this case it makes sense because of the wight.
There are two weak points for me:
The Diopter Compensation could be have a larger range
and, more important, the velcro.
I dont trust in the stability. Its a little bit floppy and the "grip" of the velcro is not equal on every side.
To fix the velcro stripe on the camera monitor is easy, but if you press the finder to strong to the stripes, I am afraid that you can peel away the stripes if you remove the Finder and that could happen very often on a production day.
How many removes will that velcro survive?
I know, its very difficult to find an other way of fixing the Finder and keep it removable.
This product is not really cheap, but it comes in a simple 2cent plastic bag without any protection cap. And I wished, zacuto put an additional velcro for reseve in the box.
But nevertheless its a useful tool for this camera and will help in many difficult situation to focus.
Benn

[yoclay]

I figured the Velcro system wasn't sufficient, but what I wonder is does the distance from eyepiece to lcd justify the cost ? Yes I have heard the speech from Steve Weiss, blah, blah, blah but have been thinking of adapting this Iston loupe with a Panasonic eyecup:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/134541-REG/Iston_GST167_3_5x_APO_Loupe.html

It is a 3.5X magnification and I don't know if that would be an issue or not. I do like that the opaque base fits more or less exactly to the LCD screen (unlike the Schneider)...

Any thoughts on this?

[3hats]

I also have the Z-Finder and experienced the same floppy issue. Let me suggest the hoodman strap
designed for their loop, http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HSLRM. I am using it with the Z-Finder and it works great, very stable, no slipping. I originally was using the 5D with the hoodman loupe but the Z-Finder is a million times better and, now, with the combo of the Hoodman strap it's great. Zacuto should take notice.
Bill

[benn]

Thanks for this tip. I just ordered that hoodman strap. Doesnt look good, but seems to be efficient.
Benn

[3hats]

Benn-
You're right, it's not elegant but it does the job nicely

[Tata Steva]

http://sisoje.zenfolio.com/img/v7/p658399552-3.jpg




http://sisoje.zenfolio.com/img/v8/p589705144-3.jpg




http://sisoje.zenfolio.com/img/v7/p752858843-3.jpg




Full story: http://sisoje.zenfolio.com/p706557289


Much less $$, does the same job and it's not that much more ugly than overpriced Zacuto...

[booggerg2]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Z Finder just a Schneider viewer with a panasonic rubber eyecup and an custom extruded plastic tube that velcros to the 5D? What is the markup? $200+ ?

[puredrifting]

I did some math over on the Cinema 5D website and you are closer to $280.00 to do everything yourself, not including your time to design and 3D printout the custom front piece. Who has time to hunt down, order and assemble all of this stuff anyway, my time is way too expensive.

Schneider 6X7 Loupe - $150.00 plus shipping
Panasonic Rubber Eyecup - $60.00 plus shipping
Custom front piece - $50.00 to 3D print, not including CAD/CAM time and access to CAD/CAM design program and skills to use it
Velcro - $5.00

Yes, with shipping and taxes, you are easily at $280.00 to $300.00 plus your time.

So Zacuto is making $100.00 to 120.00 on this product? Seems about average in this business. I see no rip off here.

Dan

[Kholi]

Are you guys just using these on sticks or at eyelevel? How are you getting low shots, etc?

[Daniel L.]

I'm using an external monitor on an arm.

I'm sure they are great and it may be a fair price but I have a hard time justifying the expense for a Zacuto Z-Finder.

I may be more interested if the live view would output to both the camera LCD and HDMI at once...

[zacuto]

The Z-finder has been in production for about 3 months, while in production, we were talking about it with select users and they were begging us to come out with a quicker version to market. They and I believe that there is really no units out there that will let you see the full frame in one view and that have high resolution optics. So I agreed to come out with a Version 1 as quick as I could, we produced a set amount for peoples immediate needs. Version 2, which is really my original version with some modifications per users is coming out in 10 weeks. Price will hopefully be the same. Although it has many features over version 1 like; much more diopter range, new and improved eyecup that doesn’t spin when adjusting the diopter, lighter weight as well as several innovative mounting solutions that will work with DSLR screens that flip out. Here you can see a concept picture of how it will look. Best feature of all, what makes the Z-finder work, are the Schneider optics and the 50mm super wide diameter lens which lets you use it with your glasses on or off. I don’t normally rush a product to market, and I still have a ton of people who are still pleading for version 1 units who have shoot in the next month. But version 2 will be much better and there will be a generous upgrade path to get it from version 1. One thing will not change from Version 1 to Version 2, resolution of image will be identical.
Steve Weiss

http://www.zacutoimages.com/img/v0/p71165610-3.jpg

[puredrifting]

This sounds great Steve. I just received version one and I like everything about it except the mounting system is not great. For reason, no matter how hard I press it down, the Z-Finder always feels as if it is barely making the connection at the top, it sort of moves around a lot.

The other issue is that the with the extreme clarity and magnification of the Z-Finder, you tend to see all of the fine hairs from the female Velcro creeping in on the edges of the frame or the little fibers actually come off and stick to the 5D screen because of static. Not sure if there is another practical mthod to mount it to the 5D MKII? Velcro seems like a stop gap solution.

Other than these issues, the Z-Finder is superb, the magnification is outstanding as is the field of view.

Thanks,

Dan

[zacuto]

Dan,
Couple of tricks to installing and working with the Velcro.
1. You need to separate the two plastic parts to the Z-finder, Keep the Velcro (the furry part) on the Z-Finder hood, remove the backing, align and stick onto the camera. So you should have the hood only attached to your camera. Now take a 4 lbs. weight and stick it on the hood for 24 hours. If you don’t do this then the Velcro will peal up and be annoying. I have my initial on still working great from before NAB.
2. When you attach the Z-finder to the camera, push hard and wiggle back and forth so all of the hooks in the Velcro get engaged. Really wiggle and mash that around.
3. Take canned air and blow directly into the Velcro seam, it should blow the Velcro hairs completely out. When I hit it with the shop air it blows everything out of there. One good blast should do it.
4. Then shoot.

If anyone needs more Velcro, just ask and I’ll ship it out to you.

I should have sent instructions out with the Z-Finders, sorry, my bad, we are just moving a little too fast for my taste.

I’m just like you, I needed this Z-Finder to shoot video (in focus), and photos too, for that matter. I use it a lot now on my photo shoots to see if I’m really in focus. Those DSLR screens are terribly unreliable, everything looks in focus. I did a family portrait and forgot to turn the auto focus back on after shooting video. I didn’t have the Z-finder and thought the portrait was focused. Everyone looked at it and was loving it. Now my family is like, I thought you were a photographer for 33 years and you can’t get a picture in focus, how embarrassing. Here is the family portrait after sharpening it a ton. Still crap. I can’t believe I screwed this up. L

I’m not quite ready to show the new mounting techniques with the Z-finder 2 but you will be able to position the Z-finder at any angle and have it work with all of these new screens that are adjustable. The difficult part is doing this in a very under engineered way, that’s the struggle.
Happy shooting.

Steve

http://www.isabelweiss.com/img/v7/p506831033-4.jpg

[puredrifting]

Thanks for the advice Steve. My 5lb lead weight from my Jib arm is sitting on the Z-Finder as I type this. Optically, this thing is just amazing, it is just keeping it from drooping that has been the challenge. I have ordered the Hoodman Cinema Strap as a stopgap until this upgrade is available. The Cinema Strap looks rather hokey but I am doing a run and gun doc for three weeks of shooting and need to keep the Z-Finder in place.

Looking forward to the upgrade, I hope you will have Mandy give us early adopters a heads up as soon as we can trade up.

Thanks,

Dan

[yoclay]

Redrock will be coming out with a new and inexpensive universal support for viewfinders in less than a months time. Dispense with the velcro, when it does.

[zacuto]

Actually, I got a Hoodman rubberband in today, it by itself has more movement then the Velcro. But, the rubberband with the Velcro is pretty unmovable. Agreed, it' not a real pro or elegant solution. But it will get the job done.

I really don't want to post images quite yet of the viewfinder mounts we have in process, I would at least like to produce one before my concepts become public, but I will say this, here are two of the 4 options we will will have.
1. mounting off of the hotshoe
2. mounting off of a rod, and has swing-away/quick-release features

steve

[puredrifting]

Those both sound like viable solutions to me although the rod precludes any pretense of keeping the 5D from looking like a tourist camera and not a filmmaking tool. Hot shoe might be better for those who aren't making features and want to stay low key (like me).

I already have an HPX170 with a Letus and the whole FF/rods/matte box deal and it attracts too much attention if you are making docs.

Thanks,

Dan

[zacuto]

I figured the Velcro system wasn't sufficient, but what I wonder is does the distance from eyepiece to lcd justify the cost ? Yes I have heard the speech from Steve Weiss, blah, blah, blah but have been thinking of adapting this Iston loupe with a Panasonic eyecup:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/134541-REG/Iston_GST167_3_5x_APO_Loupe.html

It is a 3.5X magnification and I don't know if that would be an issue or not. I do like that the opaque base fits more or less exactly to the LCD screen (unlike the Schneider)...

Any thoughts on this?

Too much magnification, you won't be able to see everything in one view. Another issue that we haven't talked about is that the screen itself is actually 5mm below the outer surface so in order to use any magnifying device you will need to reform the skirt 5mm shorter. And when you shorten the skirt that increases the magnification even more. 3x is the max and 2.8 is best if you really want to be able to see everything including the corners without moving your eyeball. We have gotten the Schneider factory to reformuate our lenses to 2.8 to accomodate for this and it will be in our Ver. 2 Z-finder.

[yoclay]

Steve,
You seem to have taken my criticism fairly well and I have been a little out of line, so my apologies.

[yoclay]

Steve,
Further, I have not only arrived at the conclusion that yours is not only the best solution out there for a viewfinder, but for the time being really the only one. The hoodman doesn't cut it at all. I think Puredrifting's point of view has been closer to the reality of the situation than mine. I have even gone so far as to purchase one! However, if I may, I purchased one this week, only to learn that a new one is coming out in a very short time!:Drogar-Dum(DBG):

[benn]

I just feel bad about Zacutos announcement, the much better Z-finder comes out soon and I think they are kidding me. The actuell part isnt really cheap and it comes in a plastic bag without any instructions, it fits bad and I need a rubberband to fix it. OK it does its work now, but its looking like bricolage and is still to floppy.

"But version 2 will be much better and there will be a generous upgrade path to get it from version 1"

This sentence is smacking in my face, I am very excited how "generous" this upgrade will be.

Until now its more frustrating than a pleasure
Benn

[puredrifting]

Hi Benn:

I can see your point of view because I am in the same boat exactly. But if you want to be on the cutting edge with this new stuff, you are going to bleed. I am glad that Steve is continuing to evolve and improve the product and knowing their reputation with past situations like this, I think that the upgrade path will be reasonable, at least I hope it will be.

The V1 will get me through my current production for a month or two, then I will upgrade to the newer version, if I keep the 5D MKII. So far, I am really digging it, but I have just been playing around with it, have not began real production with it yet.

Dan

[benn]

Hi Dan,
thats right - in a case like this, its not the best idea to be the first, but I must can trust in a company, that they develop their stuff not in a hurry and carefully enough, to save my money. I would never had buy this version 1 with the knowledge, that there will be a better one in a few weeks. If they would come out in 8 - 10 months with version 2, I have to swallow that. Thats life.
But this is not the user friendly way. The more I am excisting about their upgrade ideas
Benn

[zacuto]

I though you guys knew me & Zacuto’s customer service better than that, generous at Zacuto is code for free.
You will send me back you Z-Finder, I’ll remove the optics and place it in the version 2 housing and send it back to you.
Here is the only caveat, we have substantially shortened the skirt on the V2 unit, but we have increased the lens tube as well.
The reason was to make the unit work better for people with extreme nearsightedness.
If you have a serious correction in your glasses, you may need the V2 optics, if not you are fine.
So for you guys who have a huge nearsightedness, let me know, and I’ll have to give you the new optics; otherwise, the shortened skirt and longer lens tube will be fine.
I haven’t figured out what mounting option we will give for free with the V2 unit yet. Maybe some sort rubber band system, which you seem to like. It should probably work with or without rods. Any ideas here?
Many of the mounting options I’ve been talking about will be separate kits, just to let you know.
Steve

[benn]

Steve, thats a word!
It sounds peaceable!
When I got the viewfinder in my hands I thought immediately to combine it with the Canon viewfinder. Its removable and gives two notches at the camera free.
If you can link a frame in the size of the Z-finders output side with the canon viewfinder it should work really good.
I hope I could explain it understandably
Benn

[yoclay]

The eyefinder of the 5D M 2 has a detachable piece which slides in and off of it's mount, in my the opinion this mounting point and the mounting screw hole on the underside of the camera are the only possible means to create a support for the new video finder which is entirely independent and truly stable.

Imagine being able to slide the viewfinder on and off of this eyefinder mounting point.

If not at least creating a kind of hinge or hook at the bottom of this modified eyefinder piece which could be used in unison with a THIN metal plate from the mounting screw on the underside of the camera. Of course the skirt of the viewfinder would need to be modified with some kind of lip or hinge mate for one or both of these contact points.

An underside plate either as a secondary or primary source of support would also provide the opportunity to create anti-twist device, which the camera sorely needs in combination with a follow focus.

[yoclay]

It looks like Benn and I are on the same track!

[puredrifting]

I like that mounting idea Yoclay!

Dan

[benn]

Voclay! You expressed it better than me! But thats what I mean
Benn

[zacuto]

We've considered that in the past but here is my problem with it. If you wack the side of the Z-finder which will happen, you will crack that plastic dovetail on the cameras eyecup track. That could be a serious repair to your camera.

We have also entertained the idea of using the 1/4 20 on the bottom of the camera but then you can't really go to the tripod easy. I like the idea of coming off of the hotshoe for mounting without a baseplate or if using a baseplate coming off of a rod.

The hard part is that you really need some back pressure to hold it on and it's hard to do. The key is being able to do this for both handheld and tripod use, and hopefully to be universal between cameras. Believe me this is not easy, we have been literely noodling this for almost 4 months. I'm still listening, more ideas?
Steve

[marco0782]

What about two vertical rails that glue to the left and right of the LCD. Then the Z-finder slides down into the rails and locks into place.


Marco

[yoclay]

How about two lovely assistants, which each hold one side of the viewfinder to the camera.

[Tata Steva]

How about two lovely assistants, which each hold one side of the viewfinder to the camera.


Only if I can choose: one dark hair Southern European, other one Asian...:beer:

[morgan_moore]

We've considered that in the past but here is my problem with it. If you wack the side of the Z-finder which will happen, you will crack that plastic dovetail on the cameras eyecup track.

Err.. there is something called either fail-soft or fail safe design (I cant remember the difference)

You need to make the finder (or an insert into it) weaker than the camera eyepiece bit so in an accident it pops off not breaking the camera should you mount on the eye piece

(which is where my DIY one sits)

I think you will find flashguns are designed to break from a hotshoe before damaging the camera (I had heaps of snapped flashguns until I sourced a pile of parts)

IMO Your mount point is the hotshoe which is deigned for load

you need another hotshoe on the device to carry Rode VM or lav receiver etc

The other option is to have an L shaped cross section where the foot of the L goes under the camera between the tripod plate and camera

When you do it like this send me a free one

SMM

[puredrifting]

Used the Z-Finder on the 5D MKII for an all day run and gun shoot at a music festival on Sunday. Worked really well except that every damn photpgrapher in the place had to come up and grill me about what was the Z-Finder and why was I using it.

After this shoot, I am thinking a monopod with a head on it will be better than a tripod for running and gunning. I ended up using the tripod as a monopod for most of it as room was too tight, it was crowded with people who kept stepping and bumping my tripod legs.

Dan

[yoclay]

Still think this is the most practical kind of solution:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LCD-Pop-Up-Screen-Hood-Shade-Cover-for-CANON-5D-Mark-II_W0QQitemZ250422526465QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital _Camera_Accessories?hash=item3a4e588201&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

but certainly it means a camera specific set of outcomes and also think that it could have a better level of build quality as well as compensating for the additional thickness of the interior frame of this add-on...

Ordered one today to play with, worked out to be like 10 euros. Will look at ways to modify it that might keep the finder secure. Also wondering if the Z's skirt will fit in there, in place of the pop up part. Of course will have to sand down the attaching area of the pop up part after it's removal as well... My guess is that velcro could be attached to the sides of the skirt on the Z-Finder as opposed to just the underside and be mated with the sides of this attachment. The raised lip around the bottom of the skirt then creates a much more solid reinforcement..

[morgan_moore]

im not sure its big enough - my homebuilt version is much deeper

S

[Finster]

Used the Z-Finder on the 5D MKII for an all day run and gun shoot at a music festival on Sunday. Worked really well except that every damn photpgrapher in the place had to come up and grill me about what was the Z-Finder and why was I using it.

After this shoot, I am thinking a monopod with a head on it will be better than a tripod for running and gunning. I ended up using the tripod as a monopod for most of it as room was too tight, it was crowded with people who kept stepping and bumping my tripod legs.

Dan

You used your Singh Ray Vari ND filter, I assume? This is the workaround you're most satisfied with at this point in time? And for indoors you use you iTouch?

[puredrifting]

Hi:

Yes, I was using the Singh Ray. I have not been using the iPod Touch very often lately as with the Singh Ray, I am having pretty good luck at obtaining ISO 100 and shutter speed of 1/60th. I would use the iPod Touch when shooting narrative or music video type footage where you need consistency for multiple takes. Not sure if you have read but the readout on the 5D MKII is a bit vague anyway, comparing the displayed shutter speed with the actual shutter speed.

Dan

[Finster]

Dan - you were going to post some footage on Vimeo showing the Singh Ray in action, weren't you? I thought I read that somewhere?

[puredrifting]

Someday. Sorry, I am on an editing deadline. Gotta make money before I can cut experimental stuff. I will let you know when I can convert it, edit it and compress it.

Dan