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View Full Version : GH1 Pulldown Removal using FCP / JES Deinterlacer / Compressor



Isaac_Brody
05-08-2009, 10:13 AM
NOTE: I have found that to properly reduce the pulldown I've only been successful from importing the original "Private" file into final cut with prores, and then removing pulldown with either Compressor or JES Deinterlacer. I've actually found that JES looks a little better than compressor. Removing pulldown from just the MTS clip with no metadata from the original folder has been damn near impossible, but with the original folders intact it works as it should. You wouldn't import P2 by stripping the folders apart, and you need to take the same approach to AVC-HD. You remove that original file from the folder structure and you lose all the metadata for it.

My method is what I used when I had an HF10, it worked perfectly for removing pulldown and avoiding any interlaced ghosting or artifacts. This method picks up after you've ingested into final cut with log and transfer.

You can download JES deinterlacer here for free:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html#DEI (http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ejeschot/home.html#DEI)

Take your footage that you log and transferred in Final Cut and open it in JES.

1. Under Input make sure Topfield is checked.
2. Under Project select inverse telecine, select detect cadence breaks (I sometimes will select suppress interlaced scene changes, but am not sure if it makes a difference) and set output framerate to 23.976.
3. Don't mess with color, just leave it on default.
4. Under output put it in a different folder than original material.
5. Under video output select export and choose quicktime movie. Choose prores.
Under your Prores settings make sure framerate is at 23.976, set to progressive, dimensions 1920X1080
Sound setting is Integer(Big Endian) Sample rate 48.000kHz, 16bit, Stereo
and hit OK.
6. And hit OK to have it run. It should strip the pulldown and get you back to native 23.976.

Also, you can setup JES to run as a droplet, meaning that I'll select all my footage in the finder, drop it on JES and it will automatically do the pulldown and set it to a folder. You can select the droplet option under Preferences ==> File. You can also setup a folder to process to under Preferences ==> File as well.

In my experience JES runs MUCH faster than Compressor.

Isaac_Brody
05-10-2009, 05:45 PM
Compressor Pulldown Removal:

24p FCP AVCHD workflow:

1. In FCP, Log and Transfer
(AVCHD-> ProRes 422)

2. In the Clip window in FCP:
Highlight all clips and go to Export-> Using Compressor

3. In Compressor:

Pick Format as Prores 422 HQ

Go to Video-> Frame rate-> Custom, Enter 23.976

Turn on frame controls-> Deinterlace settings-> Reverse Telecine

Set your output folder and click submit (this renders pretty fast and Compressor automatically finds the pulldown cadence and removes it)

4.Now import the new folder with new clips into FCP and you have 1080/24p

John Caballero
05-10-2009, 05:54 PM
Anybody work with Edius 5 and care to share tthe best way to work with this 1080p24 pulldown removal? Thanks.

commanderspike
05-31-2009, 09:45 AM
Fantastic info, very handy and works great.

txcrew
06-09-2009, 10:16 PM
There is probably an obvious answer to this question but, do you have to conform to 24p prior to editing or can you conform your timeline after you have locked your picture?

ydgmdlu
06-09-2009, 11:40 PM
Pulldown needs to be removed before editing. This is different from retiming.

Mike@AF
06-12-2009, 01:20 AM
Does JES give you 4:2:2?

For the Compressor method... Why Prores 422 HQ and not normal Prores? You still get 4:2:2 and the AVCHD footage is not 10 bit right? So going to HQ would just use up more drive space and tax the computer more. Or am I missing something here?

Also, is there any way at all to go straight from the AVCHD to Compressor to do the pulldown? Rather than having an extra generation of recompression from going AVCHD -> FCP -> Compressor?

Martti Ekstrand
06-12-2009, 02:31 AM
4:2:2 is a chroma subsampling used in interlaced video. Look at the illustration in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4:2:2#Sampling_systems_and_ratios

Going to 10 bit can give benefits when applying course colour correcting and/or in secondary post treatments like blurring, graining, other 'styles' and colour correcting the result of that.

I suspect/hope that the workflow you ask for will come after the release of Snow Leopard and QuickTime X in September.

Mike@AF
06-12-2009, 03:10 AM
4:2:2 is a chroma subsampling used in interlaced video. Look at the illustration in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4:2:2#Sampling_systems_and_ratios

I understand that, but I read in the other threads that other methods (Neoscene for example) are upsampling chroma to 4:2:2 . I would be color correcting in Color and the 4:2:2 would help.



Going to 10 bit can give benefits when applying course colour correcting and/or in secondary post treatments like blurring, graining, other 'styles' and colour correcting the result of that.

Okay, here my understanding has been that you can't take advantage of the 10 bit if it wasn't shot in 10 bit. That's pretty much what I read and hear all over the place. Has the consensus thought about this changed?

Jack Daniel Stanley
06-14-2009, 09:30 AM
So take your non 10 bit footage. Add heavy grading - you've made a NEW image. Not that you've added any original information to the original, but you're adding new stuff on top of it. Vignettes maybe provide the best example. Say you add a vignette in your color grading. 8 bit has a tough time rendering some vignettes without banding. Same goes for any other heavy grading. Whatever your software is adding to the image or significantly altering may be better rendered in 10 bit.

Mike@AF
06-14-2009, 01:16 PM
That makes sense. So would it potentially be better to have Compressor just do the frame controls/reverse telecine and output as 8-bit, then have Color output as 10-bit when color grading? Would Compressor actually be re-compressing the media again, or just doing the reverse telecine process and repackaging the frames in the MOV file? Is there a way to do this easily in Cinema Tools which won't recompress and then go to 10-bit in Color? I'm just trying to think of a way to save a generation of compression.

tackleqb
06-17-2009, 11:08 AM
hey just curious, do you need to do anything when you export AVCHD footage?

J Davis
06-24-2009, 06:24 PM
I noticed JES has a setting to change gamma (default on mine after download is 2.22)
Any comments on adjusting away from quicktime gamma?

Jack Daniel Stanley
06-24-2009, 07:54 PM
Don't do it. It's annoying that FCP and QT try to guess what you want, but all of the monitoring in FCP is done assuming that all you monitors and everything else is in Mac Gamma. It compensates to 2.2 so if you also change your material to 2.2 you exacerbate the problem.

J Davis
06-24-2009, 07:56 PM
Don't do it. It's annoying that FCP and QT try to guess what you want, but all of the monitoring in FCP is done assuming that all you monitors and everything else is in Mac Gamma. It compensates to 2.2 so if you also change your material to 2.2 you exacerbate the problem.


Tx!

justin_j_nyc
08-19-2009, 11:21 AM
If I use Neoscene or VoltaicHD will it preserve the original time-stamp of the original clip? This is important due to the fact that most people in professional situations will be shooting double system sound. We need the original time-stamp of the clip so we can easily sync it up to our audio files.

Ben_B
08-27-2009, 10:51 AM
Aren't all version of ProRes, HQ, LT, even proxy, 10-bit? Also don't they all convert to 4:2:2 unless you're using ProRes 4444?

Mike@AF
08-29-2009, 03:38 PM
Aren't all version of ProRes, HQ, LT, even proxy, 10-bit? Also don't they all convert to 4:2:2 unless you're using ProRes 4444?

Yes and yes.

Chris_Marrs_Piliero
09-14-2009, 06:15 PM
so do you guys have the REMOVE ADVANCED PULLDOWN AND DUPLICATE FRAMES box checked or unchecked when you log and transfer in FCP?

Ben_B
09-14-2009, 11:58 PM
"The Remove Advanced Pulldown and Duplicate Frames option in the Log and Transfer window preferences allows you to remove redundant (duplicate) frames recorded in variable frame rate DVCPRO HD 720p footage. You can also select this option to remove advanced (2:3:3:2) pull-down from 29.97 fps footage such as 1080i and 480i, resulting in 23.98 fps (24p) footage on disk after ingest.

The Panasonic AG-HVX200 camcorder can record 24p footage on P2 cards using three methods:

Native 23.98 fps (no pull-down or extra frames)

23.98 fps with standard 3:2 (2:3:2:3) pull-down

23.98 fps with advanced (2:3:3:2) pull-down

Important: The Log and Transfer window cannot remove standard 3:2 pull-down. To convert footage with 3:2 pull-down, you can ingest the media at 29.97 fps and then use Cinema Tools to remove the pull-down."

Isn't GH1 some flavor of 3:2 pulldown? So this wouldn't apply. I believe this feature is for removing pulldown on stuff in a 29.97 fps stream? Hmm wish apple would support us. Right now I am using the compressor method for when I am shooting 1080p but haven't done much 1080p work...will probably be using JES if I do more but I've had a few stability problems with it (probably solved by making a bottle)

Kellar42
09-21-2009, 03:38 PM
I am testing both and having big trouble with JES staying open and working on all the clips, so giving compressor a whirl. Seems to think it'll take about 8 minutes for 30 short clips.

Ivan Lee
11-02-2009, 08:39 AM
I tried EVERYTHING you described on the compressor tutorial, but all I get is a very, very HUGE file with 29.97fps

What am I doing wrong? :undecided

Ivan Lee
11-02-2009, 08:52 AM
I found a option in FCP "Tools" Reverse Telecine, I just clicked there and it gave me a exact 24fps vid! too easy to be true?

Ben_B
11-02-2009, 09:33 AM
I tried EVERYTHING you described on the compressor tutorial, but all I get is a very, very HUGE file with 29.97fps

What am I doing wrong? :undecided

You probably set the FPS to 29.97...you need to set it to 23.97 and do so manually as it is not one of the listed options.

Ivan Lee
11-02-2009, 06:21 PM
You probably set the FPS to 29.97...you need to set it to 23.97 and do so manually as it is not one of the listed options.

I am 100% sure that I set the FPS manually to 23.97

I'll try to post some print screens, this is very weird... :undecided

rundavids
11-14-2009, 02:56 PM
How long does it take to remove pulldown in Compressor or JES for 2 minute clips that are 1080p?

I have a Macbook Pro 2.4 Intel Core 2 Duo with 7200rpm harddrive.

Ben_B
11-14-2009, 04:45 PM
I like using compressor more because it seems more reliable to me...best way to find out how long it will take for you is to try it!

rundavids
11-14-2009, 07:15 PM
Thanks for replying Ben. I'm thinking of buying the Panasonic GH1 for it's video. The quality I've seen on Vimeo is awesome. I wanted to ask if editing the GH1 footage is easy in FCP. I keep hearing things about how difficult it is to work with AVCHD codec.

Ben_B
11-15-2009, 03:06 AM
You have to transcode it to use it in FCP, which takes a fair amount of time and a whole lot of hard drive space (about a gig a minute) but once that's done it works with the transcoded footage just fine...for 1080p footage you'll need to remove the pulldown with compressor...this is also pretty time consuming, but it all depends on how fast a computer you have. Once that's all done though it should all edit really nicely on a variety of hardware.

max99
12-18-2009, 07:45 AM
Thanks for posting the pulldown removal workflow that FINALLY worked for me!

I was given QT movies that were already captured in FCP after having been shot on an HVX200 in 24p (not 24pA). I needed to edit them in a 24p timeline. I received some helpful suggestions as to removing pulldown using Cinema Tools and Compressor. However, while both workflows exported a 23.976 clip and seemed to remove pulldown, the video had nasty artifacts no matter what cadence I tried in Cinema Tools. (I believe Compressor detected cadence automatically).

The clips exported using JES Deinterlacer were smooth, with no artifacts.

Thanks!

asteele10
12-18-2009, 12:47 PM
Can you do the pulldown after you've edited all your clips in final cut? I followed the instructions for the pulldown using compressor settings. Will this work? My film is due tomorrow! Thanks!

asteele10
12-18-2009, 01:23 PM
I read that the answer is no. but is there any easy way to do this? I've edited my entire 8minute film already. Thanks

Psynema
12-21-2009, 10:32 PM
I read that the answer is no. but is there any easy way to do this? I've edited my entire 8minute film already. Thanks

You'd have to set your timeline to 24p, convert the files to 24p then reconnect. You'll have 1-2 frame gaps located througout yourtimline, so you'll need to cover those up.

Don't go the cheap route by exporting your film from the 30fps timeline then converting - you'll just mess it up since the cadence won't be right.

Honestly, just turn it in as 30fps and have a merry xmas

Nitsuj
12-26-2009, 08:57 PM
What is the news with the latest FCP 7 and compressor 3.5? Anybody have it yet and does it remove pulldown properly now?

dbriansmith
01-26-2010, 08:02 PM
Does anyone know why you couldn't do the same thing in cinema tools to avoid the extra file and all the time it takes to run through compressor?

adamsterner
02-24-2010, 10:30 PM
From http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=195677

Here are my results using JES Deinterlacer Reinterlace Chroma:

OFF: the color red is jagged
ON - Input setting only: the jagged edges disappear, but every other frame has chroma interlacing issues.
ON - Both Input and Project settings: The jagged edges are gone, and no chroma interlacing issues appear.

For best results: turn ON Reinterlace Chroma in both the Input and Project settings.

Psynema
09-09-2010, 10:29 AM
JES has not been reliable for me especially since the Hack. Importing and Pulldown take forever now with the higher bitrates. Switching to Premiere for sure I think unless apple pulls native support out of it's but for FCP8

mr_goodbomb
10-22-2010, 01:31 PM
I'm having a pulldown issue with FCP. Of course, I shot everything on a DVX100A in 24p, but i founf this thread and thought I might get straighter answers than the condescending folk at CreativeCow. I've already imported an edited the entire project... a whole feature film. I didn't even notice the issue until watching a DVD of footage we shot as dailies. If I use JES Deinterlacer to remove the pulldown, do I have to do it a shot at a time, or can I put a whole scene or larger of various cuts and have it process it? I know I CAN, but will that work?

squarerootofnine
11-04-2010, 08:47 AM
Compressor Pulldown Removal:

...set your output folder and click submit (this renders pretty fast and Compressor automatically finds the pulldown cadence and removes it).

I'm having a speed issue. And it's inconsistent at that.

I had 316 clips that needed to have the 3:2 pulldown. Only 260 of them completed, initially, and it took about 36 hours; the average clip length is about a minute. If my math is right (always questionable) that's just over 8 minutes per clip. Sound about right?

I've gone through and located the missing clips & doing pulldown removal on those now. The first clip (about 1 min. in length) took 7 minutes to complete, but the next clip, which was only 36 seconds, took over an hour and seemed to be hung at about 80% complete.

Has anyone had similar issues with Compressor being inconsistent & slightly unreliable?

I shot everything 1080\24 on the GH1 in AVCHD.

emergencydpt
01-12-2011, 08:27 PM
It seems to work fine but I'm fresh off the boat with this stuff.

kl19929472
04-17-2011, 04:38 AM
I am a beginner, I have a stupid question wanna ask... how can I import my footage to log and transfer in final cut pro? Coz it says my video (AVCHD) is not compatible when I try to drag my video across to the log and transfer window.

DailyFilmFix
11-17-2011, 09:07 AM
You need the AVCHD plug-in but it should have come to you in an update. There's a new one from Panasonic but it is not Lion compatible yet. It is supposed to do away with the transcoding. I'd be surprised by that, to be honest.

If you have the plug-in the procedure is pretty simple.

Plug your card in and then start FCP. Open a new project and I save it before starting the transcode. I also set up the System Prefs ahead of time as well--capture scratch and auto save and so forth. Then open log and transfer, which is under the "file" menu. It ought to automatically find the files on your SD card.

Then you can select the whole folder or individual clips for transcode. You can watch them and set ins and out and name the clips and other notes like angles and so forth.

For transcoding, you have two preference choices from what I remember--AIC or ProRes. I don't think that there is a ProRes HQ option or a 444 option from what I remember.

I use ProRes for higher end productions, but day to day we are cutting TV in AIC. It is just a much smaller file although not as good quality from what I've read. The process is pretty simple. One hiccup is that sometimes the Log and Transfer doesn't find you card or the files. It can be a little tricky, but I've found if you're coming right from the card from the camera it has no trouble.

The transcoded files are put into the "Capture Scratch" folder you created in System Prefs.

By the way, I finished cutting a feature last week on my iMac and MacBook Pro that was shot on the Red and the procedure for our purposes was really the same as long as you have the RedCode plug-in. I got half the footage already in ProRes, but the other half wasn't ready. My partner and I took three days, 24 hours a day with three to four Macs transcoding. It was just crazy.