Latest SonicStates GH1 footage - BIIIIG Size

[SonicStates]

It's ready and small it is not...610MB...
As mentioned 12 shots, you can get the info in a text doc. here:
http://gh1.dark-stone.com/sam/Intact...ettingsSam.txt (http://gh1.dark-stone.com/sam/Intact/CameraSettingsSam.txt)

Here is the latest footage:
http://gh1.dark-stone.com/sam/Intact/PRIVATE.rar

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a pro so bear with any F-ups on my journey to become better.

The first four shots were done in my studio (audio) so forgive the monotony...at least you can have some music to listen to while seeing my space...4 different settings (see link)

The next lot were done at Nagoya station (got some blue sky for GreGory) with a combination of static shots (hand held), soft, medium and nauseatingly fast, hello-jello pans (although I don't really know how they turned out because I haven't seen any of this stuff yet). All done in 1080

As per usual, a big hats off to Daniel...my welcome must surely be running out after this upload ;)

Enjoy...and next stop is the LIST chicago kindly put together to make sure I wasn't bored on Saturday afternoon...at work. Nah, seriously I really enjoy getting more intimate with this cam...it's been a pleasure so far except for the lens cap which drives me crazy.

Cheers,
Sam.

[Apefos Adapter]

thank you very much for the footage. i am downloading it now.

just a question: what is IC:minimum and IC: maximum in the text file information?

thanks a lot...

[SonicStates]

Sorry that was my bad it should have been IE, Intelligent exposure. Will get onto the FOV test as soon as I can...probably tomorrow afternoon along with the other requests.
Thanks

[mico]

ProRes'ing the files now. The private folder works perfectly in fcp. Recognized it without being told where to go. Perfect, Thanks Sonic. and thanks for writing a seperate doc for settings info.

[Oedipax]

Ooh, I really love the daytime exteriors in this one. Playing around a bit now with some color correction and other stuff. Thanks!

[SonicStates]

My advice is to follow this thread also for anyone who is interested: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=170652
Very important info about shutter

[Isaac_Brody]

Finally, FCP works. :) Not only that but I removed the pulldown with JES and I'm watching this with no interlaced ghosting or artifacts. Your 24P handheld studio footage looks very good to me and I think it's pretty useable.

Boy, still can't believe this is shot at 800 and 1600 iso. Blows my mind...

[Oedipax]

Small CC test on one of the shots: http://www.mediafire.com/?tnmzz4h50jd

[mico]

Gotta say thanks for the this Sonic. Proresed the files from private folder took about 18min for the 12 files. Then removed pulldown and conformed to proresHQ took 15 min 10 sec for clips 3,4,8,9,10, 11, and 12 on my core 2 duo macbookpro.

My feelings are the 1080 24p looks just great, its not just wishful thinking. You have to remove pulldown to see these clips in all their glory because viewing the 1080 24p in the 60i stream you will see alot of aliasing. This disappears when you conform to 23.976 in compressor

Moire seems to crop up from time to time. Rolling shutter on those quick pans, and I thank you again Sonic for doing that, is there but minor and acceptable to me. Be aware that only two 1080 clips were shot at shutter 1/50 ( the closest standard filmlike shutter setting) and only one of those an exterior with pan.

Other than fcp making me go through hoops to get there I love this in 1080 24p. Hopefully updated FCp makes this easier. And Sonic , big props to you for doing this and Daniel for the upload.

If as I read you are willingly doing more uploads, if you can give more 1/50 shutter at 1080 24p it would be great.

[SonicStates]

Finally, FCP works. :) Not only that but I removed the pulldown with JES and I'm watching this with no interlaced ghosting or artifacts. Your 24P handheld studio footage looks very good to me and I think it's pretty useable.

Boy, still can't believe this is shot at 800 and 1600 iso. Blows my mind...

Sounding good!
Yeah I was a little leery about winding the ISO up like that but so far the comments proved to warrant doing it for less light shots.
Glad to hear FCP is cooperating.

[SonicStates]

If as I read you are willingly doing more uploads, if you can give more 1/50 shutter at 1080 24p it would be great.

I just read the thread on the shutter so you can expect the arbitrary winding to stop...at least for the most part :) ...1/50 on 1080... right on. At least that part is clear...
The 720 stuff I guess will have to be shot at a 1/60 or higher to avoid the frame doubling which happens if you drop it under 1/60. If that's the case, no big deal...I'll be looking for faster glass though for less light shots.

[mico]

Sonic I think there was only one shot exterior that was 1080 24p at 1/50 and if I'm correct it was a slow pan on the corner to someone handing out leaflets. The gray stone wall in slight shadow is showing some compression issues.

According to your settings OIS was on and film mode was vibrant. Can you turn OIS off for some of your tests and set film mode to a middle setting. The codec may be being pushed to hard.

Trying to figure out if its me or the shot creating it but anything making the codec work harder should be considered.

[Ian-T]

What I am starting to notice is on tilts (up and down) the footage stays relatively sharp...and even with people walking back and forth moderately. It's only when panning you start to get some issues with breakage. But so far nothing like what I seen with the train footage. I wonder if this has anything to do with the type of shutter this camera uses (rolling from top to bottom)?

[divide]

Is noise reduction ON or OFF in the footage ? That could explain lot of fine detail removal (like 00007.MTS, ground details in the street), it seem to be blurred as if NR was ON. Can you confirm ?
However, 00004/00005/0006.MTS looks razor sharp, which makes me think 1080p24 could produce nice things with proper settings ?

[mico]

What I am starting to notice is on tilts (up and down) the footage stays relatively sharp...and even with people walking back and forth moderately. It's only when panning you start to get some issues with breakage. But so far nothing like what I seen with the train footage. I wonder if this has anything to do with the type of shutter this camera uses (rolling from top to bottom)?

Don't know if its breakage but if theres a detail setting setting and its set too high it will cause a SNAP to sharpness when you pan which doesn't look normal. The occurs with the Sony EX1 when setting the detail level too high.

[Ian-T]

...occurs with the Sony EX1 when setting the detail level too high.Ahhh...I heard of that. Matter of fact seen some tests.

[mico]

Sonic is there a detail setting and what have you set it too if it does.

A high detail level would also cause the moire issues and any aliasing that remains, so reducing it might be very helpful if its possible to reduce.

[akaloith]

please tell me a way to get rid of this pulldown thing
this alising is very annoying
as easily as possible
please
I have windows xp

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Finally, FCP works. :) Not only that but I removed the pulldown with JES and I'm watching this with no interlaced ghosting or artifacts. Your 24P handheld studio footage looks very good to me and I think it's pretty useable.

Boy, still can't believe this is shot at 800 and 1600 iso. Blows my mind...
Isaac, can you post JES Settings here or in the WorkFlow area?
(or link me please if posted, JES = too short to search on User)

It would be great if all this "aliasing" talk was just not removing pulldown properly - and FCP does not do it on transfer. I have my settings at AVCHD to ProRes with remove advanced pulldown checked and I get 29.97 interlaced files.

If JES is identifying the pulldown properly that may be the missing link. Wary of doing Comperessor to 23.98 as I'm concerned it's going to randomly drop frames.

Anyway, need your JES settings if you can please. My head nearly 'sploded when I openned the app and saw all the options.

[Oedipax]

In my experience JES is usually more intelligent about finding the cadence and removing pulldown. When I first got my HV20, I was discovering occasional interlace combing in my footage after processing it with Compressor (the 'recommended' workflow), but JES handled it fine. That having been said, the only GH1 footage I've tried processing the same way with JES did have artifacts remaining. I'm not sure why that is, it could easily be something I'm doing wrong I'm sure. The Cineform NeoScene demo seems to do a good job of it without additional fussing, for what it's worth.

[ryan brown]

Anyone care to post these clips on vimeo???

I won't be back at my office for a couple of days, and I don't have the software on my laptop to check these out...

[mico]

I did the pulldown with JES and compressor. Looking at them side by side motion is the same but JES is showing a more contrasty conversion. Shadows are darker. Maybe a gamma setting in JES .

Still seeing blockiness in gray wall in clip 00008 in both JES and compressor.

Also you can create droplet in compressor making the dealing with many files in FCp much easier I can't seem to find a batch option in JES.

[Isaac_Brody]

Here's my directions:

Here's JES, it runs on mac and is free:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html#DEI (http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ejeschot/home.html#DEI)

Take your footage that you log and transferred in Final Cut and open it in JES.

1. Under Input make sure Topfield is checked.
2. Under Project select inverse telecine, select detect cadence breaks (I sometimes will select suppress interlaced scene changes, but am not sure if it makes a difference) and set output framerate to 23.976.
3. Don't mess with color, just leave it on default.
4. Under output put it in a different folder than original materal.
5. Under video output select export and choose quicktime movie. Choose prores.
Under your Prores settings make sure framerate is at 23.976, set to progressive, dimensions 1920X1080
Sound setting is Integer(Big Endian) Sample rate 48.000kHz, 16bit, Stereo
and hit OK.
6. And hit OK to have it run. It should strip the pulldown and get you back to native 23.976.

Also, you can setup JES to run as a droplet, meaning that I'll select all my footage in the finder, drop it on JES and it will automatically do the pulldown and set it to a folder. You can select the droplet option under Preferences ==> File. You can also setup a folder to process to under Preferences ==> File as well.

In my experience JES runs MUCH faster than Compressor.

[holyzoo]

In my experience JES is usually more intelligent about finding the cadence and removing pulldown. When I first got my HV20, I was discovering occasional interlace combing in my footage after processing it with Compressor (the 'recommended' workflow), but JES handled it fine. That having been said, the only GH1 footage I've tried processing the same way with JES did have artifacts remaining. I'm not sure why that is, it could easily be something I'm doing wrong I'm sure. The Cineform NeoScene demo seems to do a good job of it without additional fussing, for what it's worth.

I agree with JES being pretty solid. It's worked with most footage I've ran through it from the Canon HF S100 and the GH1.

Regarding seeing any remaining interlacing in the footage, my theory is this:

We have all seen the instances where the compression falls apart in 1080. When this happens, the interlacing is no longer accurately recorded, so when you deinterlace, you'll see residual interlace line artifacts. It's not pretty.

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/GH1_CodecBlowup2.jpg

[mico]

Here's my directions:

Here's JES, it runs on mac and is free:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html#DEI (http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ejeschot/home.html#DEI)



Also, you can setup JES to run as a droplet, meaning that I'll select all my footage in the finder, drop it on JES and it will automatically do the pulldown and set it to a folder. You can select the droplet option under Preferences ==> File. You can also setup a folder to process to under Preferences ==> File as well.

In my experience JES runs MUCH faster than Compressor.

Awesome thanks for that. So many options. I'm gonna do a time test.

[chaos]

Some uploaded clips of what I got out of the footage.

http://www.vimeo.com/4548896 00010.mts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2XAafFQf5s&fmt=22 0008.mts

and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMigZMn3yc0&fmt=22 0009.mts

Thanks sonic!

[xbourque]

SonicStates,

Thank you so much for doing these tests! At last, some footage straight from the camera that I can open in FCP.

These are by far the most "sensible" test shots I've seen. We all know by now that the GH1 is capable of shallow depth of field... now the big question is: what else can it do?

Also, big bonus points for not having flowers or cats in your shots. :-)

As mentionned multiple times elsewhere, future tests should try to stick to:

1/50th for 24p
1/60th for 60p (for 24p retime)
1/120th for 60p (for slowmotion @ 24p)

However, another major parameter that doesn't seem to be discussed a lot around the forums is sharpening. This is a major setting. Most cameras usually have sharpening set way too high by default, which makes aliasing worse, creates a "video" look and makes the compressor work harder than it should.



I did the pulldown with JES and compressor. Looking at them side by side motion is the same but JES is showing a more contrasty conversion. Shadows are darker. Maybe a gamma setting in JES .


JES messes the gamma information in the header of .mov file. The actual pixels are the same under the hood. It's just QuickTime player showing it "wrong".

Looking at both JES and Compressor footage in FCP, Shake or Nuke shows that they are the same.

Gamma/colorspace handling in QuickTime player vs. FCP vs. AE vs. Others is a real MAJOR clusterf**k. I dream of the day Apple will get it's act together on that one...

-- Xavier

[upshot]

I'm converting these in neoScene to CineForm and they are showing up as 29.97fps in AE3... Are they actually 24?

[Isaac_Brody]

I'm converting these in neoScene to CineForm and they are showing up as 29.97fps in AE3... Are they actually 24?

Yes.

[DrBlaz]

thanks for the files! I'm testing now...


sorry, but if you remove the pulldown, it should appear as 23.996 not as 29.97 , I mean the 1080 24p files

[GregGory]

Fantastic stuff Sonic! Thanks a lot, especially for the blue sky! :love4:

The DR looks good, even when the sky stays blue, only the black suits are crushed. I'm pretty sure there's even more DR to squeeze out of this machine with either "nostalgic" film mode, or setting the contrast to low. A polarizer can also add a stop or so if the iffy part is the blue sky.

[Apefos Adapter]

I think now we need to see shallow dof footage, a people face against a blur backgorund, in the streets with tress and buildings behind and cars moving...

some tips for shallow dof footage (if sonicstates can do and upload the mts raw files)

use lens in 35mm / 50mm / 70mm and 100mm
use f4 (diafragm open)
use any shutter speed
use iso 100

shot a people face and also the chest and face in streets with tress , buildings and cars behind (to see the city blurred in the background)

if you can do this will be very usefull

thanks

[mrmoe]

Message: "AVCHD media is unsupported on PowerPC based hardware"

Bah !!!

Any recommendations other that getting an INTEL box?

[mrmoe]

I guess this... for anyone on PPC Mac OS X

http://www.shedworx.com/voltaichd (http://www.shedworx.com/voltaichd)

[Justyn]

Incredibly slow though. best to partner up with someone with a really fast mac pro. You can also use toast.

[Brett A. Noe]

Incredibly slow though. best to partner up with someone with a really fast mac pro. You can also use toast.

Works great though. Setup before bed, done in the morning. Might as well put the machine to work while you sleep! :)

[LizaWitz]

Incredibly slow though. best to partner up with someone with a really fast mac pro. You can also use toast.

Has anyone actually tested Toast? It seems like, if this works, its the perfect solution-- it pulls out the video without reconverting it (as I understand it.)

[Douglas Villalba]

Anyone knows a work around for G5s to show AVCHD?