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View Full Version : Will the 300 actually record anything other than proxies to the SD card?



Douglas Thigpen
05-04-2009, 10:51 AM
Trying to decide whether to switch to a tapeless workflow for run & gun stuff and switch from a XL-H1/XH-A1 (depending on how dangerous the area is) combo to an HPX 300. The ability to keep a 500g 2.5" self powered external USB drive in my pocket and offload to it on the fly is a huge boon.

I understand the reasoning and advantages behind using P2, just want to know if it recorded AVC50 or 100 as well as either SD format to the SD card directly.

Thanks,

Big Brother
05-04-2009, 11:00 AM
I understand the reasoning and advantages behind using P2, just want to know if it recorded AVC50 or 100 as well as either SD format to the SD card directly.

Thanks,

SD card wont record anything except for PROXIES be it in SD/HD mode :( P2 are the ones to used for Actual footage .. Thats where Panny rules :violin: !

Douglas Thigpen
05-04-2009, 11:04 AM
Ah, ok, well, at least the E series of P2 cards are coming out so the 300 is still a contender for making me go tapeless for my primary rig.

Big Brother
05-04-2009, 11:26 PM
E series is good for EXCAT 1825 Repetitions (5x365=1825 cycles of full recording) as per PANASONIC's claim. Consult before you plung with your panny rep.

Jarek Zabczynski
05-04-2009, 11:55 PM
E series is good for EXCAT 1825 Repetitions (5x365=1825 cycles of full recording) as per PANASONIC's claim. Consult before you plung with your panny rep.

A non-issue for most people. Perhaps news crews and doc shooters might fill a card multiple times a day EVERYDAY, but these cards will last a good ten years for most of us. Even with that, many will upgrade to larger cards or whaterver "new" stuff comes out over the next 5 years.

I'm keeping one 32gig R-series for the bulk of my work, the rest will be E-series from now on. I would use those once or twice a week at most.

Douglas Thigpen
05-05-2009, 07:59 AM
It'll be used for going out mid-day, doing man-on-the-street interviews, interviews and stories in bars and clubs, interviews in random alleyways with shady characters, etc and then coming home at 3am, offloading content, charging batteries, and doing it again the next day. (I have an assistant cameraman / host with me this whole time, so they can carry a backpack of extra gear if needed) Some urban excursions out I'll shoot 7-8 hours of primary footage.

All on a shoestring (relative) budget. It's the EX1/3 or the HPX300 that I've decided between. I know they're different classes of cameras, but the overall features and designs have led me to the decision. In addition to what I described above, I'll also be using the camera to make money (wedding & other event videography) as well as the occasional crappy short film. I should prioritize the money making bit as it's what is actually paying for this upgrade, but I'm stupid like that and prioritize whatever project I'm passionate about instead. Oh, I'll also be using the new camera as my primary on a documentary concerning the rock climbing community (which will involve shooting a lot of climbing) that I'm starting production on as soon as I get back to North Carolina in two weeks.

With that said, would you recommend I stay with the 300 in sights and go for two of the largest capacity E series cards, backing them up to a pocket USB drive in my pocket when full during the day's hustle and bustle, or avoid the camera? I know many will say go with the HVX200, and I already have one that I use as a secondary camera for events and honestly it has not made me the biggest Panasonic fan (I'll take my XL-H1/XH-A1 over it any day, but I do realize the 'a' rev made the low light performance much better), but I like what I see with the HPX 300. The main factors I need are good natural light (low light) shooting abilities, good quality 1080i/60 imaging (the ability to shoot 1080p for weddings and narrative and overcrank when neccesary would be a huge plus), and interchangable lens capability would also be a nice plus (I'm a traditional photographer, so that one would be more of a warm and fuzzy for me whether or not I bought additional lenses for it, just the ability to have the option to if the shooting situation arise that needed it).

As you can see, by what I describe up top, the tape workflow is a good one for me logistically; I have literally thousands of tapes in a safe collecting dust as backups of content for the current long term pet project I'm working on (which is also resulting in various "features"/documentaries along the way all contained within said project, one to be released next month). However, I'm really hankering to go tapeless as some of my secondary cameras are, and well, they're just easier to work with during production and I like the post workflow better. And to be honest, I'm just getting tired of the smell of tape heated tape.

Finally, I have to own my equipment as the projects I work on are self-financed for the most part and tend to have very flexible shooting schedules, with some going on for over a year of primary photography, with another couple planned on it.

So, now that you see that I'm a bit out of the norm and hopefully understand my needs a bit... Any suggestions welcomed.

Barry_Green
05-05-2009, 09:15 AM
People seem to be clinging to the idea that there's 1825 rewrite cycles possible and then the card just "shuts off" or something. I don't think that's accurate at all. The card will work until it wears out. It's just that MLC memory wears out sooner. Panasonic has estimated that you should get around 2,000 rewrite cycles out of it, but I still think they'll probably go quite a bit longer.

Big Brother
05-05-2009, 09:35 AM
People seem to be clinging to the idea that there's 1825 rewrite cycles possible and then the card just "shuts off" or something. I don't think that's accurate at all. The card will work until it wears out. It's just that MLC memory wears out sooner. Panasonic has estimated that you should get around 2,000 rewrite cycles out of it, but I still think they'll probably go quite a bit longer.

What you THINK is not what Panasonic States. So PEOPLE will have to go what the card manufacturer states. I wish what you think goes a long way cox its in our favor but what do we do unless any ones does a check on 1825 checks & reports more than that cycles.

Jan in her earlier post had told that the card will automatically stop recording after it reachs its LIFE say about 1825 reciord cycles.

I wish i am wrong here ... :P


Once the card has been filled daily and emptied every day for 5 years, it will no longer record. However since I know that this is in general not how many people work, most will fill the card three or four times a day, empty it each time and then when the shoot is over it goes on the shelf for a week or two. This card will last longer.

The card will give plenty of notice to let you know that you are getting close to its life end with a message in your viewfinder and you can track its usability with the P2 Formatter software on your laptop.

Hopes this helps,

Jan

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=167754&page=7

So the new E series wont got beyond its intended approx 1825 cycles.

Big Brother
05-05-2009, 10:54 AM
hope i get some clarifications here.

Douglas Thigpen
05-05-2009, 11:45 AM
I also just added the JVC HM700L17 to the potential mix to go tapeless, in case anyone has some valid comparisons between it and the HPX 300 for what I shoot based on what I wrote above.

Big Brother
05-05-2009, 08:44 PM
i am really surprised by not seeing much furor on JVC700 no to many reviews & write-ups & much words from the Just Video Company (jvc :D) it self @

Big Brother
05-06-2009, 07:09 AM
also wonder on what barry was thinking that P2 E series will last longer than just 2000cycles !will they or wont ....

Barry_Green
05-06-2009, 08:57 AM
I can't see why it'd be limited to 2,000 cycles. MLC memory is normally stated to be good for around 10,000 cycles. SLC memory is good for 100,000 cycles. When the P2 cards were first introduced, Panasonic said "good for 100,000 rewrites." So -- why would the new ones not be good for around 10,000?

Maybe they are, but Panasonic is being highly conservative.

Somebody send me an "E" series card and I'll test it... I figured out a way that shouldn't take too long, nor result in the complete destruction of a card... :evil:

Big Brother
05-06-2009, 11:07 AM
but why did JAN said it will stop recording after 2000 cycles approx. MAY be Jan will oblige us with a FREE card P2 e series for test for barry :D

Douglas Thigpen
05-08-2009, 07:13 AM
Need to make the decision and start acquiring the equipment in the next week to get acquanted with it in time. The budget went up a bit (got actual financial backing for the Rock Climbing doc so it won't all be coming out of my pocket), so regular R series P2 cards would be an option if I went with the 300 and e series wasn't available yet. Any thoughts or recommendations based on what I've stated as my rough requirements with the HPX 300 compared to the other two I listed (EX1/EX3 or the JVC HM-700)?

Thanks in advance for your time, I value it greatly as well as all of your opinions on the matter from people with much more diverse real world 'gear' experience than I,

Barry_Green
05-08-2009, 06:38 PM
If you're buying a 300 in the next few weeks, and have to get "R" or "A" cards because there aren't any "E" series out yet, then you might be eligible for a rebate from panasonic. Basically, if you would have bought "E" cards and you can't because they're not out yet, then Panasonic will rebate you half the cost between the "A" and the "E" card for buying now. But you have to buy an HPX300 to qualify for this offer.

Check with Panasonic for actual details; this is how I remember it being discussed at the NAB booth but don't rely on my recollection before making a purchase decision. :thumbsup:

Douglas Thigpen
05-09-2009, 09:15 AM
Thanks for your input regarding the P2 aspects. I think I'm going to try and put off purchase for a couple weeks and use the XL-H1 to do the initial weekend shoot for the rock climbing doc that I have coming up. If anyone has any real world experience with the HPX 300 in the types of situations I've described, especially if they have first hand experiences comparing it to the EX1/EX3 or JVC HM700 in such situations, your feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Ben Digedig
05-10-2009, 02:06 AM
Douglas, the 300 is NOT a low light camera in my opinion. I'm testing it hard this weekend and have seen abysmal results and have seen stunning results - all light level dependent... Just forget putting in gain though - its not just usual noise you get its black dots crawling. BD