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View Full Version : Gh1 and other competing products European pricing policies.



Solare
05-04-2009, 04:24 AM
Germany recommended retail price. 1550 €

http://www.panasonic.de/html/de_DE/Produkte/Lumix+Digitalkameras/G+Micro+Systems/DMC-GH1K/%C3%9Cbersicht/2145581/index.html
http://imgur.com/2X46.png




The price in the UK so far in Euro is aprox. 1344.

http://www.ukdigital.co.uk/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh1-14-140mm-lens.htm
http://imgur.com/2X4qw.png

The French would storm the Bastille again if it's sold for more than 1200 Euro here, nah, they would just buy Nikon or Canon.
Remember France is the country where the G1 and other Panasonic products had their record sales in Europe and it even prompted having the first non-Japanese CEO (a Frenchman is the CEO for Europe now).

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/News/Latest+news/Laurent+Abadie+appointed+Chairman+and+CEO+of+Panas onic+Europe/2190130/index.html
http://imgur.com/2X5a.png




I know it has to do with some laws but still...

Panasonic is facing fierce competition from Nikon-Canon in the DSLR+video market and I honestly don't think most of the current G1 users would care that much about the video features, hard to believe (because this is a forum for video-crazed people :happy:) but they will go:

"What? :Drogar-Thinking(DBG1500 just for a stupid video feature? I'll go Nikon D5000, for 829 € I'll get the same deal or even better for 1029 € I'll get 2 kick-ass lenses..."

http://www.darty.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/DartySearchEngineView?storeId=10001&crit%40=nikon+d5000
http://imgur.com/2X5AQ.png

And on the Canon side:
http://photo.fnac.com/a2658251/Appareil-photo-numerique-Appareil-photo-numerique-reflex-Canon-EOS-500D-Canon-Obj-Canon-EF-S-IS-18-55-mm-f-3-5-5-6?Mn=-1&Mu=-13&Ra=-5000&To=0&Nu=1&Fr=0
http://imgur.com/2X8Ek.png


Most people mainly look at the price first, then at the specs.

Companies would love if if everyone would be hard-core enthusiasts or semi-pros but no, there's a big number difference between the average Joe, who is abundant and the average DVXuser Joe, who is a rare species.

Whatchathink the final retail price will come to? As I've said 1344 Eur in the UK so far!

divide
05-04-2009, 05:10 AM
hehe Solare I hope we can find interesting prices in France but I don't count on this, it's a shame dollars doesn't convert properly to euro for hardware ! To them, 1500$=1500€ ... :/
However I noticed prices drop quickly, so maybe after 3 months we can hope for a drop to 1200€ ?

Mais mon avis il y a sans doute moins cher que la Fnac ;)

GregGory
05-04-2009, 05:20 AM
! To them, 1500$=1500 ... :/


Factor in the V.A.T. , the customs (I think it's around 5% for the GH1), the extended warranty in the EU, and suddenly the difference isn't that bad.

Solare
05-04-2009, 05:21 AM
D'accord... mais...

You know how this is a difficult and "malin" market. They know that already.

Martti Ekstrand
05-04-2009, 05:35 AM
You are to a extent comparing apples and oranges here. The UK recommended price (SRP) in your screenshot is 1399 which equals 1569 € so it's a few euro higher than the german recommended price of 1550 €.

Solare
05-04-2009, 05:41 AM
Hi Martti, I am not comparing them, I'm stating them and indicating

1. A German suggested retail price
2. A UK store retail price, you might check it again because it says 1199 final price.
3. The UK suggested retail price and the German are slightly off but not to say they are not similar.

Also remember if Panasonic have decided to give a SRP of 1550 € VAT changes from country to country.

VAT for UK = 15% (temporary cut from 17.5%)
VAT for GE = 19%

GregGory
05-04-2009, 05:44 AM
"What? :Drogar-Thinking(DBG1500 just for a stupid video feature? I'll go Nikon D5000, for 829 I'll get the same deal or even better for 1029 I'll get 2 kick-ass lenses..."

http://www.darty.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/DartySearchEngineView?storeId=10001&crit%40=nikon+d5000
http://imgur.com/2X5AQ.png



Double kits are always much cheaper than one superzoom lens. Eg. the Nikon 18-200 VR is 600, add to that a D5000 or D90 body for 700 - 800, and suddenly the gap is gone.

If Panasonic offered the 14-45 + 45-200 double kit for the GH1, the price would probably be the same as the D5000 - d-kit your are referring to. But I don't think Panasonic will bundle non-HD lenses with the GH1, which I sort of understand.

Solare
05-04-2009, 06:16 AM
Double kits are always much cheaper than one superzoom lens. Eg. the Nikon 18-200 VR is 600, add to that a D5000 or D90 body for 700 - 800, and suddenly the gap is gone.

If Panasonic offered the 14-45 + 45-200 double kit for the GH1, the price would probably be the same as the D5000 - d-kit your are referring to. But I don't think Panasonic will bundle non-HD lenses with the GH1, which I sort of understand.

You and I know this, but would first-time buyers ?
That is the question, of course we can say "who cares" but remember the great bulk of G1 buyers were first-timers, not Nikonistas and Canonistas willing to "try something new" :D

GregGory
05-04-2009, 08:29 AM
You and I know this, but would first-time buyers ?
That is the question, of course we can say "who cares" but remember the great bulk of G1 buyers were first-timers, not Nikonistas and Canonistas willing to "try something new" :D

Panasonic has said the G2 will probably have some kind of video functionality. Suppose just 'bad' enough to make serious DV users buy the GH1/GH2. I would not be surprised if the G2 is just around the corner (say August), basically a GH1 restricted to AVCHD-lite or WVGA.

So, I don't think the GH1 has to appeal to the masses who look for good value on the still camera market, the Gx line will take care of that. The GHx line will probably be aimed at the serious DV users who need good still (and vice versa) and indie film makers on a budget. Mabye Panasonic will raise the price of the GH2 and open up for its market cannibalizing potential by unlocking the bitrate, the HDMI-out, monitoring etc. But I don't believe we'll get more 'pro' goodies for 1500 USD, no matter how many petitions there might be...

LizaWitz
05-04-2009, 03:13 PM
Those who don't care about the GH1 video and think its too expensive will buy the G1, not a canon or nikon.

The reason for this is very simple: Canon and Nikon are not competing in this category. They have no competitive cameras, at all.

This category is not hulking DSLRs, nor is it point & shoots.... this is a new category. And the G1 is the only camera in the category and makes it really competitive with cameras in the other categories.... but those for whom this category is appropriate will decide whether they want video or not, and choose the G1 or GH1.

Solare
05-04-2009, 05:43 PM
Those who don't care about the GH1 video and think its too expensive will buy the G1, not a canon or nikon.

The reason for this is very simple: Canon and Nikon are not competing in this category. They have no competitive cameras, at all.

This category is not hulking DSLRs, nor is it point & shoots.... this is a new category. And the G1 is the only camera in the category and makes it really competitive with cameras in the other categories.... but those for whom this category is appropriate will decide whether they want video or not, and choose the G1 or GH1.

Hello Liza,

-Edit- Now, I know you say the G1 has no comparison because it has no pentaprism or mirror, but do people really care? Some might, some might not, it's not really that a deciding factor seeing that in this market the bigger the camera the more bad-ass you look.

Quoting you on
"Those who don't care about the GH1 video and think its too expensive will buy the G1, not a canon or nikon" what makes you say people will prefer the G1 over Canon or Nikon if they find the Gh1 expensive? Are you referring to "Panasonic fans" remember the still camera market is dominated by Canon and Nikon big time, how would the price of the GH1 (which is one thing) affect the decision of people when buying a camera and say "Gee, the Gh1 is expensive, hence I will buy the G1 instead, I will completely ignore Canon and Nikon"

Isn't it logical most people would think "I could buy a Nikon or a Canon with similar specs since they're less expensive, including video, I would consider the G1 but it has no video capabilities"?

Is it too much to think MOST people will think it is quite convenient that your still camera has video, and therefore, you don't have to lug around a still and a video camera to record the wife and kids on a picnic?

and then you say:

The reason for this is very simple: Canon and Nikon are not competing in this category. They have no competitive cameras, at all. Isn't it a little far-fetched?

We can compare the Gh1 to other competing products, we've been comparing it on these forums with the D90 ad nauseam. Just because of the Micro 4/3 it does not mean they do not share similar or comparable specifications.

I'd love to buy a GH1 over the other mentioned products however, me ponders.

The GH1 is a camera that is not really destined to the broadcast or pro market, it has features that might appeal to semipros or pros (what's a pro anyway) who would want a side-camera -and who is to say that it will not make a great product!-, but for the time being, it will adhere to the rules of the consumer electronics market.

It's hard to refute that the GH1 is Panasonic's answer to other companies DSLR cameras with video capabilities. I know that you would not like it to be compared to say a Nikon D5000 or a D90 or a Canon 500D but let's be realistic;
The majority of people who are buying their first "reflex" or interchangeable lens digital camera will go for the newest. A G1? for our times it's become 'old specs', it's become the camera from last year (yeah, I know it's not old at all)

People want the best the newest and the cheapest at the same time, it's always been like that in consumer electronics.

LizaWitz
05-04-2009, 10:35 PM
I know that you would not like it to be compared to say a Nikon D5000 or a D90 or a Canon 500D

I don't mind having the camera compared to other cameras. But I think you missed my point entirely. This is a new category of camera, its a new formfactor. The G1 and the GH1 fill out the line with a video camera and a stills camera-- and the people for whom this formfactor are targetted are buying the G1 in quantity. I'm not saying its taken over the whole market, but I'm saying that its a new categor and thus a new part of the market, in which the other companies don't compete.

Worse for them, I think that by the time Canon or Nikon get around to making an EVIL camera, they will have lost the race.

daveswan
05-05-2009, 01:22 AM
Most 'togs I know and post with HATE EVFs, usually with a deep and lasting hatred. If they want a small-form DSLR they'll go for the Olly 4xx or 5xx series or the smaller Canon or Nikon offerings.

Solare
05-05-2009, 01:45 AM
I don't mind having the camera compared to other cameras. But I think you missed my point entirely. This is a new category of camera, its a new formfactor. The G1 and the GH1 fill out the line with a video camera and a stills camera-- and the people for whom this formfactor are targetted are buying the G1 in quantity. I'm not saying its taken over the whole market, but I'm saying that its a new categor and thus a new part of the market, in which the other companies don't compete.

Worse for them, I think that by the time Canon or Nikon get around to making an EVIL camera, they will have lost the race.

I know it's a whole new world of a camera I agree with you totally on that and I'm excited by its possibilities. And the idea of having the pentaprism/mirror out of the picture (pun intended) was genius.

Now, your point about the others not having it is correct. They don't.
You are completely right.

Solare
05-05-2009, 02:05 AM
Most 'togs I know and post with HATE EVFs, usually with a deep and lasting hatred. If they want a small-form DSLR they'll go for the Olly 4xx or 5xx series or the smaller Canon or Nikon offerings.


I've never used one, but I can start seeing why, sourcing Wikipedia:



Electronic viewfinders in still photography

Electronic viewfinders have the following advantages over optical viewfinders:


Lack of parallax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax) and ability to cope with high zoom-ratio lenses, without the need for a bulky reflex mirror (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-lens_reflex_camera). Cameras with a separate optical viewfinder show the scene from a different viewpoint than that of the camera lens.
Information about the scene, such as a histogram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_histogram), can be overlaid with the scene.
EVFs can show an approximation of the final exposure when they are exposure-priority.
EVFs can show a low-light scene brighter than it is when they are display-priority.
Most EVFs show 100% coverage of the final image.
EVFs provide a more accurate depiction of the contrast and tonal qualities that will appear in the final image.

Electronic viewfinders have the following limitations (2007):


There may be a noticeable lag between the changes in the scene and the electronic viewfinder display.
The resolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution) of the display may be too low to allow for accurate manual focusing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focusing). Some cameras assist in this by magnifying the center of the image or by outlining the edges of in-focus objects; even with this adaptation, manual focus using an EVF is more difficult than using a DSLR optical viewfinder.
In low-light conditions, an EVF display that does not auto-gain can be virtually blank, making it difficult to use. In practice, very few EVF displays do not auto-gain.
An EVF has high power consumption, usually comparable to the main LCD screen.

LizaWitz
05-05-2009, 06:54 AM
Most 'togs I know and post with HATE EVFs, usually with a deep and lasting hatred.

Yes, there's a lot of people in the video world too that will have to be drug, kicking and screaming, into the future. Fortunately, this is not going to be a problem for the G1/GH1.

I suspect a lot of these same people are the ones who think "oh, its big and heavy, it must be *professional*".

Whenever you do something innovative, it will be rejected by people for being.... innovative. They get stuck in their habits, I guess.

But that's fine. They are a small part of the market. People who have been buying point and shoots, but would really like to have DSLR quality images, but in a small camera--- that's a massive market. That right there is a market larger than canon and nikons DSLR sales, many times over.

People who have camcorders, but would really like to have high quality video, but in a formfactor not too big, while still giving them great stills capability--- that's a huge market as well.

And they're going to shoot pictures of their dog or cat, kids, niagra falls, and a whole bunch of junk we may turn our noses up at..... but they are the market for the G1 and GH1 and that target market is probably quite massive compared to the target market of the 5D.

This is actually a good thing, because these mainstreams sales will fund future versions of the product which will likely offer more of the features we want.

In fact, if we get really lucky, that market will start demanding more film features and become more like us.

AdrianF
05-05-2009, 07:06 AM
When Olympus introduced dust reduction and live view, they were generally treated by a lot of people as a novelty feature. They've quickly been adopted by the other manufacturers though.

Anyway, Panasonic in Switzerland are saying May, but not giving a price as yet:

http://www.panasonic.ch/fr/Presse/Vid%E9os+Full+HD+et+qualit%E9+de+photos+du+reflex+ viennent/197/communique.html