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jamesmallonuk
05-01-2009, 08:05 AM
Some big question so far unanswered. firstly I haven't any mention fo the audio controls on the GH1, if its auto gain if not how a decent small form mic sounds like maybe an MKE400 or the acceosory mic for the camera.

Secondly i have yet to see any footage with a reasonably wide 14mm? fast lens attached to this thing. Everything so far is so claustophobic like an episode of CSI.

A personal question is why does the zoom lens its sold with so slow, isn't there an alternative faster all purpose3/4 lens for this camera? They have targeted this so clearly at average consumers that I wonder if this thing can be adapted for our purposes?

Nektonic
05-01-2009, 08:17 AM
There are not a ton of answers on everything yet because the camera is only available in Japan so far. Kholi, Hunter Richards, and Philip Bloom are the only dudes from here that have one, and two of them currently can only use the kit lens until their adapters arrive.

You can use practically any lens on the planet with various adapters. The reason the kit lens is on the slow side is that they went for a larger wide to telephoto range, thus making it harder to make an affordable and lightweight lens that is also fast. I agree, though, as I too would also rather have a lens that balances speed and focal range instead of neglecting one for an extreme version of the other. Also, the kit lens has the auto focus during video recording features which could be handy at times. I'm not sure, but it could be that the AF features are a secondary cause of the slowness of the lens. Still though, you can always sell the kit zoom lens and use whatever primes or zooms that you want.

I would keep an eye on the forum over the weekend and into early next week to find out new info as they will be shooting more and learning about the camera some more, plus they'll have their lens adapters here soon.

As for audio, I'm sure they will be getting into that pretty soon as well. Right now the consensus seems to be that we can use an external recording device like a Zoom H2/H4/H4n or whatever brand you would like and sync in post. Others have mentioned that you could run audio pre-mixed to the mini-jack input on the GH1. I can't imagine the GH1 having all these nice manual controls for video and then not giving some audio controls.

Steve Castle
05-01-2009, 09:45 AM
Some big question so far unanswered. firstly I haven't any mention fo the audio controls on the GH1, if its auto gain if not how a decent small form mic sounds like maybe an MKE400 or the acceosory mic for the camera.


Auto gain isn't mentioned in the manual as far as I've read, so I don't think you have control over it. No clue about the accessories. But there is an audio thread on this subject...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=169746



Secondly i have yet to see any footage with a reasonably wide 14mm? fast lens attached to this thing. Everything so far is so claustophobic like an episode of CSI.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg855hlHXHo&fmt=22
Around the 4:20 mark you'll see the 7-14mm lens being used.


A personal question is why does the zoom lens its sold with so slow, isn't there an alternative faster all purpose3/4 lens for this camera? They have targeted this so clearly at average consumers that I wonder if this thing can be adapted for our purposes?

Panasonic decided to make the standard kit lens the "jack-of-all trades" lens. The 14-140mm has a 35mm equivalent of 28-280mm, which is comparable to the the Nikon 18-200mmVR f3.5-5.6. which gives a 35mm equivalent of 27-300mm.

Thing about these lenses is that they have a large range in terms of focal distance, but are usually slow and expensive. I feel they should have made a 14-45mm "HD" lens and made the GH1 kit $500-600 cheaper.

Another reason that I think they went that route is that its far easier to autofocus when you have a larger DOF. Even in the best AF systems, wide-open using AF for shallow-DOF tends to "hunt" when it trying to get focus. This jerky hunting behavior may be acceptable for stills, but it would look unnatural during a movie. Relative to the performance, accuracy, and characteristics of their silent motor they may have decided it altogether.

Who knows, we may see some really fast "HD" lenses in the future. The system is only getting started.

Nektonic
05-01-2009, 09:52 AM
I feel they should have made a 14-45mm "HD" lens and made the GH1 kit $500-600 cheaper.

I agree, and it would be nice to have the option to buy the GH1 body by itself, then you could get the Olympus Zuiko 14-45mm f/2.8-3.5 4/3 system zoom which is about $500. Hopefully they'll make the body only option available eventually.

Hunter Hampton
05-01-2009, 09:57 AM
I put a 1080p grab up on my post @14mm (in the woodshop) with the kit lens @ iso800- that will give you an idea of what the footage looks like until some wider angle footage gets posted.

Kholi
05-01-2009, 11:13 AM
F4 is NOT too slow, either.

ydgmdlu
05-01-2009, 11:41 AM
Yes, indeed F4.0 is not slow by old standards, which considered anything bigger than F5.6 to be fast. F4.0 and smaller apertures are also common in the still photography world, where even really fast prime lenses are typically stopped down to F5.6 or so in everyday use. Plenty of 35mm motion picture film is shot with lenses at f4.0 or f5.6.

The truth is that it's a matter of perspective. Because we've been spoiled by fast video lenses, we're surprised when something like this comes our way. It looks like Panasonic is selling us short, but it really isn't. The HD kit lens is pretty much the best that they could've done, and it's not a cheap lens either (with a value of $800). Years of R&D went into making this the best performing general purpose zoom optimized for video. If the lens were any faster, then it would be much larger, much more expensive, and possibly more difficult to optimize for video. If you look around, other zooms with a similar field-of-view range rarely have maximum apertures larger than f3.5. And in fact, the kit lens that comes with the 5D Mk II, a very good $1100 lens, is a 24-105mm F4.0.

I remember that when the Scarlet was first announced, plenty of people complained about the T2.8 fixed lens. Now that we're getting used to the VDSLR world, F2.8 doesn't seem so bad; it's considered quite fast for zoom lenses.

Kholi
05-01-2009, 11:47 AM
Exactly. It's coming from a mindset that's used to 35mm Adapters. I mean, F4 isn't the FASTEST thing on the planet but it's certainly adequate when you consider the sensor is very efficient to begin with, then ISO control, shutter, etc.

It's not the same beast.

ydgmdlu
05-01-2009, 12:04 PM
The fastest standard zoom for Four Thirds is the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8, but autofocus might not work with it when it's used with the Micro Four Thirds adapter. If you want something a little wider, Panasonic makes a 14-50mm F2.8-3.5. But there's nothing faster available for less than $2000. And there's nothing faster and with a greater zoom range than those, at any price.

Steve Castle
05-01-2009, 12:13 PM
F4 is NOT too slow, either.

Exactly, thank you. As evidenced by this look at the superb quality of the professional f/4 Canon "L" glass. More important is the quality throughout the optical range of the lens.

Kholi
05-01-2009, 12:16 PM
Exactly, thank you. As evidenced by this look at the superb quality of the professional f/4 Canon "L" glass. More important is the quality throughout the optical range of the lens.

Exactly. the L Series Canon Glass should really kick ass on this camera in video mode. And in Still mode of course.

Faster Glass is ideal for lowlit scenarios and special shots where you want to completely remove the background from your subject.

In Broad Daylight, it's such a refreshing thing to be able to rock an F stop of about 4 and retain a creamy, rich "bokeh". Circular highlights included.

Please, do not be afraid of slow lenses with VDSLRS. It's not the same animal. I'm absolutely dying to try out my 28-70/3.4~5.6 Contax Zeiss Zoom on this thing.

ydgmdlu
05-01-2009, 12:35 PM
Exactly. the L Series Canon Glass should really kick ass on this camera in video mode. And in Still mode of course.
OK, here's where we run into a problem, a pretty big one, at the moment. There are no adapters for Canon EF lenses. I had assumed that there were, but then I checked again, and there weren't. There are adapters for regular Four Thirds for every other mount out there, or else there's a way to stack adapters to make it work. But not for EF lenses. I don't see any way, at the moment, to mount these lenses onto a Four Thirds or Micro Four Thirds body.

Unless I missed something?

Another issue is lack of aperture control, since many modern lenses, including Canon L series, don't have aperture rings. You'd need an adapter with an "aperture plunger," but, again, I see none available for any mount. This means that unless you have a second camera to set the aperture for you (and I'm sure that many of you out there do), the aperture will be stuck. Not so bad when it's wide open, but terrible when it's completely stopped down.

Kholi
05-01-2009, 12:40 PM
I think you're right on the aperture plunger. That's what we're using on our RED Nikon mount, it's a screw system that pushes the aperture tab up and opened, or allows it to close.

Regarding the EF mount, you probably just have to buy a 4/3 to Micro 4/3 adapter and then you're good.

philip bloom
05-01-2009, 12:46 PM
Kholi, how are you finding asa 800 and higher? are you getting some lines? I am finding asa800 quite ugly at times...wondering if its just my camera...

Posted my f1.4 nikon test now...

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/05/01/lumix-gh1-with-nikon-primes-and-low-light/#more-2841

Kholi
05-01-2009, 12:49 PM
I'm with Hunter on 800ISO. It's good, and actually 1600 isn't even that bad. If I can avoid going above 500 or so that would be ideal, naturally, but I don't think it'll be an issue.

I also watched back some 800ISO and 1600ISO footage straight out of my PS3 to the big LCD and it's pretty impressive, all things considered.

I'm working with adjusted camera settings as well, different color profiles, which might be the reason why. Nothing is high contrast in my image, everything's dialed down, no noise reduction either.

What I'm getting with the stock F4 Zoom is pretty amazing to me, I can only assume it gets ridiculous with a faster lens in lowlight.

Kholi
05-01-2009, 12:51 PM
I forgot to ask: are you seeing the lines in the footage or just on the LCD before you hit record?

The image BEFORE you hit record is a world of difference from what you see when you actually HIT record. I got fooled by that in the beginning, and now actually record everything to make my final decision on settings.

ydgmdlu
05-01-2009, 12:52 PM
Regarding the EF mount, you probably just have to buy a 4/3 to Micro 4/3 adapter and then you're good.
No, what I'm saying is that I don't see any EF to regular Four Thirds adapters available. This is the big problem right now.

GregGory
05-01-2009, 12:54 PM
A personal question is why does the zoom lens its sold with so slow, isn't there an alternative faster all purpose3/4 lens for this camera? They have targeted this so clearly at average consumers that I wonder if this thing can be adapted for our purposes?

The 14-140mm HD OIS is probably the most ambitious kit lens ever made Not to mention, this is the first lens with continuous iris and scilent AF. A body only option is also available, so I don't see what the problem is all about.

Kholi
05-01-2009, 12:54 PM
Ooooh. I didn't know. There's a guy on Ebay that's gonna make some adapters. I doubt it's a Focal Flange issue but hopefully not.

I couldn't find an EOS one either but the guy said he'd have it in 10 Days, so it seems to be just a matter of popularity. And it makes a LOT of sense, because these cameras are targeted/were targeted toward a small consumer niche. They probably weren't so concerned with using expensive Canon Glass or anything else.

I hope thats it, anyway.

ydgmdlu
05-01-2009, 01:03 PM
I'm surprised that I'm the first person here to point out this problem, and the camera's been out for a week! Yes, I'll remain optimistic that an adapter will be made available soon, but what strikes me as odd is the fact that the Four Thirds system has already been out for so long, and with Canon lenses as popular as they are, you'd think that the problem would've been remedied long ago.

I think that the real reason why is because of the lack of aperture rings on Canon EF lenses. It's not a problem with Nikon because Nikon has long stood behind its F mount, and some older AF lenses still had aperture rings. Because you'd need an aperture plunger, I guess that adapter makers just felt that the added complexity wasn't worth the effort. And without an aperture plunger, a lens is just very limited in its usefulness. Hence no demand. It's a vicious circle.

DavidNJ
05-01-2009, 01:21 PM
The fastest standard zoom for Four Thirds is the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8, but autofocus might not work with it when it's used with the Micro Four Thirds adapter. If you want something a little wider, Panasonic makes a 14-50mm F2.8-3.5. But there's nothing faster available for less than $2000. And there's nothing faster and with a greater zoom range than those, at any price.

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1137/cat/15

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/lens/dea/products/lens/14_35_20/index.asp

ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 14-35mm F2.0 SWD

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/lens/dea/products/lens/14_35_20/image/prod_img.jpg

ydgmdlu
05-01-2009, 01:27 PM
http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1137/cat/15

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/lens/dea/products/lens/14_35_20/index.asp

ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 14-35mm F2.0 SWD

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/lens/dea/products/lens/14_35_20/image/prod_img.jpg
Eh, I knew about that lens already, so the first sentence was an oversight. But I did say that you can't get any zoom faster than F2.8 for less than $2000. The Oly 14-35mm is most commonly found for around $2100 or more. And AF doesn't work on it when adapted for MFT.

LizaWitz
05-01-2009, 02:14 PM
I'm surprised that I'm the first person here to point out this problem, and the camera's been out for a week!

Really, the "camera" has been out for months, since last fall. The G1 fans have been going thru the lens issues for quite awhile. I pointed to some relevant threads in my "Adapting lenses to the GH1" thread, but the forum with the big activity for adapting lenses is at www.getdpi.com

My understanding was that there was some technical problem that prevented EF lenses from being adapted and it looked like they couldn't be adapted. This is what I heard from the stills people.

This is the only lens mount I'm aware of where people think that it can't or won't be adapted, but I haven't been paying too close attention because I don't have any EF lenses.


And without an aperture plunger, a lens is just very limited in its usefulness. Hence no demand. It's a vicious circle.

Basically there are two kinds of organizations making adapters. Large companies that are doing it because they want to add value to existing lenses they already make-- this is why Panasonic has an MFT to FT adapter, and also why they are coming out with Leica M and Leica R adapters (basically they're doing that for Leica who is a partner of theirs.)

Then there's guys with machine shops who are designing their own adapters, probably without access to the official MFT spec. These guys are mostly in china, and they are rapidly building up their capabilities to adpat lenses, but this is more the cutting edge and also where you'll be expected to put up with a little bit of lack of fineness in the products.

Now, I don't have any reason to believe that any of these guys-in-garage products are poor quality, quite the opposite. But it will take them time to build up the capability to do the more complex adaptations.

They've been at it for 6 months or so... not sure how long before they'll find a solution to the EF issue, or if they are motivated to do so.

Steve Castle
05-01-2009, 10:10 PM
Borg makes an EF-mount to u4/3rds adapter. The problem is that it's still pretty cumbersome, obvious it's entirely manual since it has no electrical contacts. Shooting wide-open isn't a problem, but changing the aperture is still very tricky at the moment.


http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/steve_castle/EOS-MicroFourThurds-1.jpg
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/steve_castle/265443_m.jpghttp://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/steve_castle/281379_m-2.jpg

Solare
05-03-2009, 03:26 PM
I feel they should have made a 14-45mm "HD" lens and made the GH1 kit $500-600 cheaper.


They'd do that if they really were interested in making a lot of money. :happy: