PDA

View Full Version : Cineform NeoScene for Mac: How To?



Kholi
04-30-2009, 02:26 PM
I'm dense. How do I start this process once I've downloaded the NeoPlayer and NeoScene trial?

stephenvv
04-30-2009, 03:15 PM
I'm dense. How do I start this process once I've downloaded the NeoPlayer and NeoScene trial?

I still have NeoHDV and not sure if it works the same, but you launch the app, point it to the folder or card and process - should be a settings/prefs somewhere to set codec level, pulldown etc.

Kholi
04-30-2009, 03:26 PM
I got it working finally. Cineform Codec looks like it compares very nicely with the ProRes.

And the Pulldown is working accurately.

PaPa
04-30-2009, 04:26 PM
kholi, would you know how this process would be done on PC? Would it be the same method as say, the HV20?

Kholi
04-30-2009, 04:31 PM
Probably the same method. It's pretty easy.

Nektonic
05-01-2009, 09:45 AM
I got it working finally. Cineform Codec looks like it compares very nicely with the ProRes.

And the Pulldown is working accurately.

Sounds like NeoScene HD is going to be a good add-on for GH1 post work. How much faster is it than using Apple's transcode to ProRes, and can you give a comparative file size between the two?

Zim
05-01-2009, 01:58 PM
What happens when you use the Apple ProRes? Just slow? Won't do 24P? Is it just the GH1?

Isaac_Brody
05-01-2009, 04:11 PM
What happens when you use the Apple ProRes?

You get HUGE file sizes. It eats up harddrive space fast.

St3viE B!
05-01-2009, 07:10 PM
You get HUGE file sizes. It eats up harddrive space fast.

What kind of file size difference are we talking about? I'm still shooting SD and am curious as to how much space a file ran through NeoHD will take.

Thanks

DavidNJ
05-01-2009, 07:26 PM
Cineform will vary between about 76 and 160Mb/s depending on the quality setting and frame rate. I believe ProResHQ goes as high as 220Mb/s.

However, there is always a however, ProRes uses discrete cosine transforms like MPEG; Cineform uses wavelets.

LizaWitz
05-01-2009, 07:39 PM
I think ProRes is Apple's answer to "uncompressed". I think Final Cut has been moving slowly for the past couple of years because Apple is working on a major overhaul to make it a very modern, cutting edge NLE. Either that or Apple has lost interest and is abandoning the product. I doubt the latter, and have no inside info, but as an Apple watcher for many years, when their products are not introducing innovative features regularly its generally one of those two situations.

Personally, I think Final Cut is going to come in September, be based on the work in Snow Leopard and blow us all away. That's my prediction.

Zim
05-01-2009, 08:08 PM
Is there another setting in FCP that is better?


You get HUGE file sizes. It eats up harddrive space fast.

Elton
05-01-2009, 10:32 PM
Come on guys; 1 TB external drives at Costco for a little over a bill.

CineForm or ProRes, you need to deal with large file sizes in order to have a decent post experience with these heavily compressed AVCHD formats.

I go straight to ProRes with 5D2 files and am very happy to work in a high quality, fast rendering, frame-discrete codec workflow.

ryansheffer
05-01-2009, 10:47 PM
I second what Elton says. Large hard drives are a necessary part of the game. I'm in prores on everything I edit.

Isaac_Brody
05-01-2009, 11:08 PM
So am I, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. :)

A couple years ago I was using the Sheervideo codec which gave great results. Might have to try it again.

djkarn105
05-04-2009, 09:09 AM
So what was the benefit of cineform vs ProRes?

does cineform transcode and remove the pulldown all in one step?

Ian-T
05-04-2009, 09:34 AM
Yes it does.

Oedipax
05-04-2009, 11:04 AM
Does anyone know a way to get NeoScene to output regular ProRes files rather than HQ? The HQ bitrate doesn't really strike me as necessary for footage from this cam. I could always transcode again and probably not lose much quality (prores hq to prores) but that's an extra workflow step.

Also, outputting Cineform files doesn't work at all on my machine, is that a limitation of the demo? It just sits idle on processing the first frame. 2008 8-core MacPro, 14gb ram, Nvidia 8800 graphics. Shouldn't have any problems ;)

DavidNJ
05-04-2009, 04:42 PM
What were the Cineform settings that worked? I am getting errors in NeoHD on windows with the MTS files Sam posted.

stephenvv
05-04-2009, 04:55 PM
I had no problem with NeoScene in Windows - set it to remove pulldown, quality high and let it rip.

joe 1008
05-06-2009, 07:49 AM
Is there an advantage in CC converting to ProRes or Cineform?

pix2pixels
05-06-2009, 06:13 PM
Is there an advantage in CC converting to ProRes or Cineform?

You are working with 4:2:2 sampling as opposed to 4:2:0. A little more data to wrangle for heavy corrections, though you still start from a 4:2:0 master! Just more chunks of pixels to bounce around.

Good exposure, and a look that is more 'backed in' from the very start is mandatory.

Humanoid Typhoon
05-14-2009, 07:19 AM
Can't get this stupid thing to work. Keeps asking me for the destination folder after hitting convert. It also says "null" next to my file if that means anything. It's the older version (1.0.0.2) I believe. Downloaded it a while back and the newer file location is down so I can't download that.

Any ideas guys? ugh

squig
05-18-2009, 11:46 PM
before everyone drops the $$$ on cineform mac users have a read first-
http://techblog.cineform.com/?tag=neo-player
http://estore.cineform.com/technology/CineForm_Intermediate.htm

I'm hoping apple makes color quicktime compatible in the next FCS update, I really don't want to have to fork out more cash for AE.

I look forward to hearing what the early adopters think of cineforms 10bit wavelet compression compared to 8bit apple intermediate codec.

timbook2
05-19-2009, 02:02 AM
499 bux for that softw? there must be another way! Since AVCHD seems to push itself into the market, I do hope somebody comes up with some quick solutions SOON!

Already having to log & convert AVCHD in FCP to just LOOK at footage ?

A simple app to preview footage, a QT plugin for AVCHD, a simple transcoder to turn it into ProRes.....all things that I would like to see.

Selvedge
05-19-2009, 03:20 AM
I downloaded NeoScene trial for both OSX and Windows and compared them. I got different results with each!

The Mac version showed clear interlacing artifacts, but only on frames showing fast pans/high movement (I tested 20+ 1080 .mts files that other users posted here). The Windows version performed flawlessly on the same videos that I tested.

Both versions of NeoScene produced videos of comparable bitrate, using the same codec (CineForm HD as reported by QT), but when I tried to run the NeoScene Windows output in OS X Quicktime, it taxed my dualcore 100% and wouldn't play smoothly.

Additionally, I noticed that NeoScene OS X was unstable and needed to be restarted when used repeatedly. I'd call their OS X version beta ware, at best...

timbook2
05-20-2009, 04:37 AM
thanks a LOT for performing the test Selvedge. Looks like there is still a niche market for a decent product....hoping somebody comes up with something soon because I am buying the GH1 in 2-3 weeks ( hopefully)

pix2pixels
05-20-2009, 05:55 AM
Would it make any sense to use a hardware device like Matrox Mini (http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/mxo2_mini/specs/) that would transcode the HDMI port's playback in real time?

Nighthawk
05-20-2009, 08:17 AM
Would it make any sense to use a hardware device like Matrox Mini (http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/mxo2_mini/specs/) that would transcode the HDMI port's playback in real time?

Maybe you're on to something here. I'm not very technical so I'll let better minds than mine determine if this is even feasible so don't slam me too hard, I'm delicate.

Camera to Matrox mini via HDMI---Matrox mini to monitor---output Matrox mini to computer for capture. Would this or a similar setup bypass the HDMI port being shut down when 'record' is pressed? We'd be able to have live monitoring, the footage transcoded and captured to hard drive via a laptop or... There's a possibility something else might be needed in the mix like an HDMI to firewire converter such as http://www.convergent-design.com/CD_Products_HDConnectMI.htm I just don't know.

Just a thought. I'm sure somebody with the technical skills can answer this. If it works I realize it isn't very 'run and gun' but for static locations/sets and those tough shots like jib it would be nice to have live monitoring.

us marriage
06-13-2009, 02:28 AM
I've been surfing this forum, and many others looking for some answers, and have finally been able to get some clarity, and wanted to share this.

My issues are with HD footage from the 5dM2 and getting it to work with Premiere Pro CS4 (aka PrProCS4), on the Mac.

1. Native AVCHD footage from the 5dM2 does not work in PrProCS4 (and is also just not suited for NLE systems in general)
2. It requires some kind of transcoding - enter Cineform's NeoScene.
3. The NeoScene application does allow me to transcode my native files into the Cineform codec.
4. NeoScene DOES NOT install an appropriate "importer" for PrProCS4
5. The resulting transcoded files can be put into a 'bin' in PrProCS4, but the video playback is choppy (although the audio does work) - even though the footage, when placed in a scene (using HDV 1080p30 as a preset), is given the 'yellow line' which should indicate the ability for PrProCS4 to playback the footage w/o rendering.
6. After consulting with Cineform, I have confirmation that PrProCS4 for Mac requires an 'importer' that they don't have, and may not unless they decide it's a priority. It may exist in a future version of NEO HD.

timbook2
06-13-2009, 02:18 PM
I just found an old softw. that I still have:

Visual Hub

a discontinued software from techspansion.com

it transcodes PAL AVCHD files on my MBP to QT PAL DV for FCP....
tested and works....so for lower res stuff this ancient tool already did it.

I am still undecided of to spend those 40 bux for neoscene or 2 spare batteries and wait for a solution from pana ( since they already made one for pc)
:Drogar-Love(DBG):

also ffmpeg should be able to transcode ( for free)

there may be some more solutions out there, lets try them!

GIUFED
12-12-2010, 06:57 AM
Good evening to all and sorry for my English.
I bought Neoscene version 5 and I must say that has many bugs.
I can convert using the Cineform codec.
But if I choose the Apple ProRes HQ part but the conversion does not end.
Maybe the Apple Pro Res can only be selected if it is installed FCS3?
I have to force the closure of the program.
Someone can give me guidance on this?
I forgot to mention that I use a mac with SL and files to be converted to 1080/50p are taken with the Panasonic HDC-SD700.
Thanks.

mojo43
12-12-2010, 09:43 AM
This way is free and you can output to a codec of your choosing:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?171947-Clever-FREE-pulldown-removal-amp-transcoding-workflow-via-AviSynth/page6