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Kholi
04-27-2009, 05:09 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and post up some answers to questions before I do a full write-up:

1. LIVE HDMI = No. Doesn't Look like so, folks.

2. USB to Composite Video Cable Included = Thanks Panasonic!

3. Rolling Shutter = RED ONE spec. Quote me on it. I waved this sucker around at 140mm looking for rolling shutter and it's just so scant that I'm speechless. Panasonic's Video department needs to take a lesson from the stills department. PERIOD.

4. Image Quality = Sucker looks like EX-1 @ 1080. Straight out of the HDMI into a Production Monitor all I gotta say is "fin~"

5. Manual Control Extent = EVERYTHING. I do mean EVERYTHING.

6. Custom Color Profile = DId you even have to ask? YES. And just wait til you see this stuff with the NOISE REDUCTION off. Yeah, it comes standard ON with this camera. >=D

7. Shutter speeds: 1/40, 1/50, 1/60 on Up. Close enough to 1/48 for me. Although there doesn't seem to be a way to avoid those pesky Sodium Vapor lights or Fluorescents yet. Gonna have to dig further.

8. ISO - 100, 160, 200, 250, 320, 400, 500, 600, 640, 800, 1000, 1250, 1600 in Video Mode

9. Flip Out LCD - Seriously? Did Panasonic actually make this thing? The LCD is awesome. Stick it up to your eye and BOOP (sound effects there) you get the Viewfinder. Sick. UPDATE: You don't see what you're actually REALLY getting on the LCD until you hit record. So don't be fooled. It looks better than you think!

10. Overheating -- Camera's been on for an hour so far. No overheating. Awesome feature on this: it turns the LCD off until the lens picks up motion, then it snaps back on. Sweet.

11. KIT LENS -- F4 indeed. And I have no reservations with using it for as much as I can. If this is the limitation of an F4 then it's all up hill from here man. The Lens isn't really friendly for manual use, unless you wear it in. But this sucker is QUIET as hell.

12. Facial Recognition Focusing -- Facial Recognition Focus works. Programmed the lady into the camera and it finds her without me doing anything. If she's in the frame it goes to her.

And I got to program it in English. It's a little slow, but I think it's just menu settings.

13. COLOR PROFILES -- You can save custom versions of Panasonic's curves. There are SEVERAL, and versionso f Black and whites as well.

Example; Adjust the DYNAMIC preset curve and lower saturation, etc, then save it.

Totally stumbled onto this while nitpicking through things. Saved two color profiles that I'm quite happy with. This may allude to building custom curves in other software. Sweet.

14. STORAGE and TIME LIMITS -- Picked up a 4GB Sandisk Extreme III 30mb/s card today.

A blank card's time limit seems to be 31minutes and So-and-So Seconds.

So every 4Gb you get 30 minutes of 1080/24p 17mbps AVC-HD it looks like. Not bad for 50 bucks.

I don't know just yet if there's a recording time limit, I'll have to let it run for a while to see. Coming soon.

15. MJPEG -- Blocky as all get out. I wouldn't use it, your mileage may vary.

16. ALIASING -- Its there on Wides with the Kit Lens. I've yet to try another wide angle lens but it's certainly there and shooting in either mode, it exists. you can save buildings by rotating the camera until the aliasing vanishes but archways and curves will not be saved.

Reserving final thought on Aliasing as a whole until I get my Nikon and Contax adapters.

You will have to decide, personally, how Aliasing affects your shooting. I like my wides, so I hope that it's just this lens or something like that. =T

FOV (Field of View) -- It's nowhere near an issue that it's been made out to be. Please pick one up for yourself and judge.

Kholi
04-27-2009, 05:10 PM
RESERVED. Please change it to PANASONIC!!! Lol. Not with a G. And leave this post for more updates.

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 05:12 PM
Thanks Kholi. It sounds great. Some fuuutage please....?

Daniel L.
04-27-2009, 05:16 PM
Thanks for the update Kholi. Please post a video direct out of the camera if you have a chance.

No live HDMI is a really big deal to me but the rest sounds good.

PaPa
04-27-2009, 05:18 PM
very excited to see some stuff from this cam in your hands kholi, don't put it off! :)

Nektonic
04-27-2009, 05:20 PM
Awesome Kholi. Thanks for being the GH-1 guinea pig in terms of taking the risk and having to deal with Japanese menus.

No live HDMI out. Does that mean no external monitoring beyond the flip out LCD?

Kholi
04-27-2009, 05:22 PM
They give you a USB -> Composite cable. I say it's pretty fair game.

By the way, the Flip out LCD ROCKS so hard.

I doubt this thing overheats, dude. It's got an Eco friendly mode but it's all electronic. If it overheats i'll be very surprised.

Jim Klatt
04-27-2009, 05:24 PM
Does it have 20p???

PaPa
04-27-2009, 05:26 PM
Lol!

Kholi
04-27-2009, 05:30 PM
I'm gonna try to put this into perspective with something very minor:

The camera has an option to change the readout of your card from Pictures Remaining to VIDEO time remaining.

Afterthought is not the term for this video mode.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-27-2009, 05:30 PM
Almost as important as live HDMI out: What about live SD composite video output via the special USB-to-RCA cable which comes with the GH1?

If the HDMI cable is _not_ plugged into the GH1, does live SD composite video come out thru the USB-to-RCA cable? (I don't know if fiddling with the menus is required to enable this.)

Not having any live video out of the GH1 is going to make using it on a jib a bit of a challenge. I guess you could always rig it up with a bullet cam aimed at the LCD screen ... :shocked:

Thanks! Have fun with your new toy! :happy:

- Peter
www.peterdv.com (http://www.peterdv.com/)

Nektonic
04-27-2009, 05:30 PM
So do you think that the LCD is going to be good enough for most shooting scenarios?

Kholi
04-27-2009, 05:33 PM
So do you think that the LCD is going to be good enough for most shooting scenarios?

It depends. People thought that the HVX lcd wasn't adequate with a 35mm Adapter but I handled it quite well.

if you're worried, there's also an option that you can turn on and off for manual focus:

if you touch the focus ring it automatically zooms into the image so you can focus. You can choose how far it zooms in as well.

squig
04-27-2009, 05:40 PM
let us know what the mjpeg bit rate is

squig
04-27-2009, 05:43 PM
RED image quality! are you smokin crack kholi?

philip bloom
04-27-2009, 05:45 PM
you bastar* Kholi! mine is stuck in your annoying American customs somewhere in Ohio whilst I am sitting here in Austin gagging for it and fiddling with that camera that is SO last year. The Canon 5Dmk2. Looks like you will get the killer footage up first!

I will be blogging about it as soon as I get it of course!!

Kholi...you are dead to me now ;-)

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 05:46 PM
So Mr. Bloom is the mistery 3rd person in the USA to get the Japanese GH1!


RED image quality!

Wow.

mattF
04-27-2009, 05:48 PM
I know we're all caught up in the manual video controls and live video output of this camera, but I'd like to know if there is any manual control over the audio levels?

Kholi
04-27-2009, 05:48 PM
you bastar* Kholi! mine is stuck in your annoying American customs somewhere in Ohio whilst I am sitting here in Austin gagging for it and fiddling with that camera that is SO last year. The Canon 5Dmk2. Looks like you will get the killer footage up first!

I will be blogging about it as soon as I get it of course!!

Kholi...you are dead to me now ;-)

It was you all along!!! LoL.

Don't worry, you'll probably get out footage before me. I'm not posting a SINGLE thing until I've got these settings down. But I'll report on my findings as far as what the camera's offering.

This thing has already run the D90 into the ground.

philip bloom
04-27-2009, 05:49 PM
So Mr. Bloom is the mistery 3rd person in the USA to get the Japanese GH1!



Wow.

Nope mine is a production model with English Language from the UK sent to me out here!

Kholi
04-27-2009, 05:49 PM
RED image quality! are you smokin crack kholi?

It looks like EX-1/RED @ 1080 and 720. I know what Barry was talkin' about when he said it looked like HPX3000 footage.

He wasn't wrong.

squig
04-27-2009, 05:49 PM
the genetically enhanced son of the DVX is born....can't wait a month....japanese menu's.....h'mmm excuse to get a japanese girlfriend.

Kholi
04-27-2009, 05:50 PM
Nope mine is a production model with English Language from the UK sent to me out here!

Cheater! LoL. At least someone'll have a better time than I'm having trying to activate manual controls in CUSTOM settings.

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 05:50 PM
Nope mine is a production model with English Language

Ok. Can't wait to see your footage as well as Kholi's and Hunter's. Exciting times.

squig
04-27-2009, 05:50 PM
It was you all along!!! LoL.

Don't worry, you'll probably get out footage before me. I'm not posting a SINGLE thing until I've got these settings down. But I'll report on my findings as far as what the camera's offering.

This thing has already run the D90 into the ground.

prickteaser!

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 05:52 PM
the genetically enhanced son of the DVX is born

Of the HVX200 if you will.

squig
04-27-2009, 05:54 PM
h'mm I think that might be insulting the lil bugger.....son of panavision mb

squig
04-27-2009, 05:57 PM
now you're gonna have to flip burgers for that zuiko 14-35mm f/2 kholi. I am

squig
04-27-2009, 06:00 PM
how's the low light perf compared to the D90? The noise test vs the D700 looked ok at 800 ISO

PappasArts
04-27-2009, 06:07 PM
Congrats Koli,

You just might be the only person of almost 300 million people in the USA that has their own GH1 at the moment......

Glad to know the GH1 is everything and more.

The new DVX, has been born........................








I'm gonna go ahead and post up some answers to questions before I do a full write-up:

1. LIVE HDMI = No. Doesn't Look like so, folks.

2. USB to Composite Video Cable Included = Thanks Panasonic!

3. Rolling Shutter = RED ONE spec. Quote me on it. I waved this sucker around at 140mm looking for rolling shutter and it's just so scant that I'm speechless. Panasonic's Video department needs to take a lesson from the stills department. PERIOD.

4. Image Quality = Sucker looks like EX-1/RED @ 1080. Straight out of the HDMI into a Production Monitor all I gotta say is "fin~"

5. Manual Control Extent = EVERYTHING. I do mean EVERYTHING.

6. Custom Color Profile = DId you even have to ask? YES. And just wait til you see this stuff with the NOISE REDUCTION off. Yeah, it comes standard ON with this camera. >=D

7. Shutter speeds: 1/40, 1/50, 1/60 -- I can live with that.

8. ISO - 100, 200, 400, 600, 800, 1600, 3200 in Video Mode

9. Flip Out LCD - Seriously? Did Panasonic actually make this thing? The LCD is awesome. Stick it up to yoru eye and BOOP (sound effects there) you get the Viewfinder. Sick.

10. Overheating -- Camera's been on for an hour so far. No overheating. Awesome feature on this: it turns the LCD off until the lens picks up motion, then it snaps back on. Sweet.

squig
04-27-2009, 06:11 PM
Hanging to take delivery of my slightly retarded son of panavision

If I don't die of swine flu first

RaviSun3D
04-27-2009, 06:12 PM
How sharp is the AVC codec at 17Mbps?
And what about MotionJPEG?

Please upload Raw footages in both formats if you can!

No Live HDMI...? :cry: :crybaby:

dadoboy
04-27-2009, 06:27 PM
I say don't rush to post footage. We've seen enough off the cuff stuff. Do it right and shoot a scene with dynamic range, light it up, please shoot something cinematic if possible even though I understand if it's not really a movie or well budgeted.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-27-2009, 06:34 PM
They give you a USB -> Composite cable. I say it's pretty fair game. ...

Hi Kholi: Have you had time to test if your GH1 outputs live composite video using the USB-to-RCA cable, other than during playback from the SD card???

- Peter
www.peterdv.com

Finster
04-27-2009, 06:34 PM
Kholi - can you tell us which lenses you'll be using???

LizaWitz
04-27-2009, 06:37 PM
Yeah, if you don't give us footage today, then you want to give us Reverie when you do! :-)

PaPa
04-27-2009, 06:38 PM
im just worried about the workflow for pp cs3. i know avchd isn't easy on editors. unless there is a way to convert the footage into a more suitable format. Similarly to the HMC150. apparently it requires a tough computer to edit thi stuff without long rendering times or even real time playback.

Imaginate
04-27-2009, 06:49 PM
the genetically enhanced son of the DVX is born....can't wait a month....japanese menu's.....h'mmm excuse to get a japanese girlfriend.

Here are some tips for you Squig,

http://www.luvcube.com/find-love/find-japanese-girlfriend.htm

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 06:55 PM
Where did Kholi go?

Kholi
04-27-2009, 06:56 PM
Composite Video -- Haven't had a chance to test.

Finster on Lenses -- Zeiss Contax Set, Tokina 11-16mm, some of the Infamous Zeiss Zooms and primes and then next week Cooke S4's and Superseeds.

Footage -- Yeah I'm not just gonna post up flowers. There's enough of that already.

AVCHD Codec -- I can't tell if my camera was a little hot or if it's the SLOW SDHC cards that I have!!! I forgot I needed 30MBPS cards!!! So I'mma hit Best Buy and pick up an 8GB tonight, get rid of my 2 4GBs and then ordered some more 8gbs.

So Far though it looks pretty damned robust on this production monitor. I have seen it break up, but it might be faulty on my end because I'm changing SO many settings without knowing.

UPDATE ON ISO SETTINGS: After rummaging through the menus I've noticed that some of the custom settings bleed over. So I unlocked SEVERAL ISO SETTINGS!

Check the first post!

Hunter Hampton
04-27-2009, 07:04 PM
I think panasonic made a mistake, the camera is too good for the price- especially for the indie/low-budget niche market. Full manual control? What the heck were they thinking?

Lets make a petition to get these pulled off the shelfs before they come to the US! Either that or add firmware to cripple the camera in some way. Too much bang for the buck.

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 07:06 PM
I think panasonic made a mistake, the camera is too good for the price


Nooo! Don't give them any ideas. They haven't ship it here yet!

ChipG
04-27-2009, 07:07 PM
Looks like Kholi is going to have to sell his D90 on eBay. No one here will want it now :)

Kholi
04-27-2009, 07:09 PM
A little note on Barry's footage:

I am PRETTY sure that the reason Barry got footage he wasn't impressed with is because of the auto settings that were employed. I shot some stuff at 100 ISO and cripes it's pretty friggin' smooth!!!!

I'm going to go ahead and subscribe to Vimeo so that I can have freedom uploading clips.

squig
04-27-2009, 07:12 PM
Hunter shhh! They haven't announced the street price for the rest of us!

Imaginate I already have 3 girls......4 is too much trouble

The big question is how will kholi on crack's red lookalike look after it gets spat out of fcp?

Oedipax
04-27-2009, 07:16 PM
This is really exciting - now I don't know what to do with my D90. As a DSLR it might still outperform the GH1 but for video there definitely seems to be a new king in town. Counting down the days until June...

Kholi, are you saying it only does three shutter speeds, 1/40, 1/50, and 1/60? What about at 60p? Or do you mean it's increments of /10. If so, what's the total range? I don't mind keeping this sucker locked at 1/50 rather than 1/48 at any rate.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-27-2009, 07:17 PM
... the SLOW SDHC cards that I have!!! I forgot I needed 30MBPS cards!!! So I'mma hit Best Buy and pick up an 8GB tonight, get rid of my 2 4GBs and then ordered some more 8gbs. ...

Hi Kholi: Is there a "class" rating on the SDHC cards you've been using? Are they class 4, or class 6, or something else (what does the label on the card say)? Thanks!

- Peter
www.peterdv.com

PaPa
04-27-2009, 07:27 PM
When you get to it kholi, im defintiely going to want to hear about the workflow for this.

squig
04-27-2009, 07:29 PM
surely a 20MBps sandisk extreme III card is fast enough?

Ian-T
04-27-2009, 07:43 PM
I think panasonic made a mistake, .SSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!!:Drogar-Shock(DBG):

Kholi
04-27-2009, 07:49 PM
I think panasonic made a mistake, the camera is too good for the price- especially for the indie/low-budget niche market. Full manual control? What the heck were they thinking?

Lets make a petition to get these pulled off the shelfs before they come to the US! Either that or add firmware to cripple the camera in some way. Too much bang for the buck.

Understatement. I KNOW there's stuff in the menus I haven't found yet. I mean, just after making the incremental values for ISO's available I KNEW I wasn't even really touching this thing.

Good Grief.

Note: I just ate for the first time today. Whoo

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 08:04 PM
I KNOW there's stuff in the menus I haven't found yet.

Didn't you get the Rosetta Stone Japanese course?

SPZ
04-27-2009, 08:11 PM
That's it, I'm getting one.

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 08:13 PM
I am gonna get this one. There may be cheaper cards out there but this is from Panasonic itself and should be optimized for their cameras.

http://www.adorama.com/PCSD16GBC6.html?searchinfo=Panasonic+16+GB%2c+20+M b%2fSecond%2c+Class+6%2c+Secure+Digital+High+Capac ity+(SDHC)+Memory+Card (http://www.adorama.com/PCSD16GBC6.html?searchinfo=Panasonic+16+GB%2c+20+M b%2fSecond%2c+Class+6%2c+Secure+Digital+High+Capac ity+(SDHC)+Memory+Card)

plasmasmp
04-27-2009, 08:13 PM
I'm about to get a friend to pick me up a GH1 in Japan and ship it to me. I cant wait any longer for the US version.

FatDaddy
04-27-2009, 08:14 PM
Okay stupid question, but I got to ask. Will this ever come with a battery grip for vertical shooting? Hands are to big to use it comfortably as a still camera (use to a 5D with grip).

dcloud
04-27-2009, 08:26 PM
Thanks kholi! thats awesome news.

Do a laforet.

Nektonic
04-27-2009, 08:26 PM
This thing has already run the D90 into the ground.

Besides those that own a D90, I think that is what we all wanted to hear.


When you get to it kholi, im defintiely going to want to hear about the workflow for this.

Me too. :badputer:


Note: I just ate for the first time today. Whoo

Do you want us to FED EX some Ramen noodles to you? We don't want you passing out from malnutrition while doing your camera tests.

Also, another question about the LCD... is there only the magnification focus assist, or do they give you a peaking function as well?

philip bloom
04-27-2009, 08:35 PM
I have this for it http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370186356628
not ideal but until I can buy fast glass my only option...

dcloud
04-27-2009, 08:40 PM
KHOLI question came up...

shutter speed on a 720 60p...1/120 possible?

squig
04-27-2009, 08:45 PM
stay away from the pork kholi......we need you to live

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 08:49 PM
Will this ever come with a battery grip for vertical shooting?

I hope so.

Ian Slessor
04-27-2009, 08:52 PM
Canadian price based on the Yen/CDN exchange rate is....$1900!

eep.

Still, I'm not selling my DVXb cams yet. Soon.

And I just lost interest in the Canon HFS10/100.

Oh, I hope the CDN price is lower than the exchange rate indicates.

I realize this has been stated before and you've only had the cam for, what? 5 hours?

FOOTAGE!!!!

please?

sincerely,

ian

Steve Castle
04-27-2009, 09:04 PM
Thanks for the great impressions, Kholi!


Okay stupid question, but I got to ask. Will this ever come with a battery grip for vertical shooting? Hands are to big to use it comfortably as a still camera (use to a 5D with grip).

Being that the LCD is a live-view camera with a swivel screen, vertical shooting should work fine without the vertical grip.


I have this for it http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370186356628
not ideal but until I can buy fast glass my only option...

This should work with non-G lens Nikons. If you want non-Nikkor fast lenses I would recommend looking at Canon FDs, Voigtländer, and the 4/3rds Leica 25mm f/1.4 and their respective adapters. You can also get a C-mount to a Canon 50mm f/0.95 adapter for fairly cheap if you want a reeally fast lens (the C-mount should also work for the Canon f/0.95 TV lens).

For Nikon G-lenses:
For u4/3rds users that have G-lenses the current easiest route is using a u4/3->C-mout adapter and a C-mount->Nikkor lens with a plunger that can adjust the aperture.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/757835/0

Hopefully soon someone can make a u4/3rds->G-lens Nikkor adapter.

squig
04-27-2009, 09:08 PM
just shoot a bourne on your way to get the sd cards......wear a mask

btw those paper masks are useless, they are particulate masks. you need a vapor mask like for spray painting.

Shauntron
04-27-2009, 09:24 PM
KHOLI question came up...

shutter speed on a 720 60p...1/120 possible?


This is my concern as well... 60p with 1/60 is less than ideal when converting that to 24p slow motion.

DanDOF
04-27-2009, 09:26 PM
Kholi regarding Custom Picture Looks does it look like you can adjust RGB curves to get a cross-processing look?

Kholi
04-27-2009, 09:28 PM
KHOLI question came up...

shutter speed on a 720 60p...1/120 possible?

Yup! All shutter speeds are accessible. I was giving low shutter figures for those worried about 1/48

Kholi
04-27-2009, 09:30 PM
Kholi regarding Custom Picture Looks does it look like you can adjust RGB curves to get a cross-processing look?

Contrast, Saturation, Sharpness, Noise Reduction (off), And one more.

I think there might be custom curve software. Have to look.

Ian Slessor
04-27-2009, 09:31 PM
Kholi?

What did you pay for the cam, if I may be so bold as to inquire?

sincerely,

ian

squig
04-27-2009, 09:31 PM
I can't take it anymore, I'm gonna have a cold shower.

Shauntron
04-27-2009, 09:31 PM
Yup! All shutter speeds are accessible. I was giving low shutter figures for those worried about 1/48


WHEW close one.

Kholi
04-27-2009, 09:33 PM
Kholi?

What did you pay for the cam, if I may be so bold as to inquire?

sincerely,

ian

1600.00 w/New Battery. That's incredible for what this thing is and I haven't even tried stills.

Kholi
04-27-2009, 09:34 PM
Kit Lens thoughts at the top of the page -- Entry 11

squig
04-27-2009, 09:34 PM
It's funny how paranoid we are because every other DSLR is crippled....A camera that works na can't be.

Rodrigo Medina
04-27-2009, 09:35 PM
stay away from the pork kholi......we need you to live

Actually eating pork has nothing to do with it. And I hope that those paper masks work, because right now those are the only ones you can get in here if you're lucky. (really lucky)

squig
04-27-2009, 09:35 PM
Oi less talk more action isn't that what you always tell me

RaviSun3D
04-27-2009, 09:36 PM
I think panasonic made a mistake, the camera is too good for the price- especially for the indie/low-budget niche market. Full manual control? What the heck were they thinking?

Lets make a petition to get these pulled off the shelfs before they come to the US! Either that or add firmware to cripple the camera in some way. Too much bang for the buck.

And we were expecting Live HDMI? That's silly....:Drogar-Shock(DBG):


A little note on Barry's footage:

I am PRETTY sure that the reason Barry got footage he wasn't impressed with is because of the auto settings that were employed. I shot some stuff at 100 ISO and cripes it's pretty friggin' smooth!!!!

I'm going to go ahead and subscribe to Vimeo so that I can have freedom uploading clips.

We just need a Footage that is shot by a Cinematographer, nothing more, so I am happy now anyways...:thumbsup: Go Ahead...!

But wait! looks like you are posting in forum with one hand and shooting with the other.
Just leave us man, go out, shoot whatever you feel good, and then come back to us.

We can wait for nice footage anyways!!! :Drogar-Evil(DBG):

Kholi
04-27-2009, 09:48 PM
Yeah I think the initial questions are over. I'm gonna go do my lowlight testing to see what I get out of this thing.

Definitely birds and trees footage, though. Sorry everyone! There's plenty of that popping up. If you have any questions that I haven't answered just yet, post them. I'm paying attention but about to try some 60P stuff

squig
04-27-2009, 09:49 PM
Actually eating pork has nothing to do with it. And I hope that those paper masks work, because right now those are the only ones you can get in here if you're lucky. (really lucky)

Rod they are a placebo. They offer very limited protection. For 100% protection you need a biohazard suit. Sorry if I sounded insensitive to you situation but I expect we will all be in the same boat soon.

http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache:_yxlJL-Iq0EJ:www.nlc.edu/documents_Word/3%2520-%2520Respirators-%2520One%2520Way%2520To%2520Protect%2520Workers%25 20Against%2520Pandemic%2520Flu%2520-%2520Lo-lit%2520version%2520-%2520Final%2520,%252011-08.doc+particulate+filter+flu+virus&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari

Ian Slessor
04-27-2009, 09:50 PM
1600.00 w/New Battery. That's incredible for what this thing is and I haven't even tried stills.

Thanks, Kholi.

Here's hoping the price comes down a bit over the next 6 months.

Thinking of selling my 2 cams and picking up a pair of these fellers...maybe 3 for full event coverage.


Hmmm. Any chance of some LANC-type action a-la the DVX/HVX Varizoom controllers....or am I being silly?

sincerely,


ian

Ian Slessor
04-27-2009, 09:51 PM
Rod they are a placebo. They offer very limited protection. For 100% protection you need a biohazard suit. Sorry if I sounded insensitive to you situation but I expect we will all be in the same boat soon.

Criminey.

I hope you're wrong squig.

Thoughts and prayers for those in the hard-hit areas.

sincerely,


ian

codeloss
04-27-2009, 09:52 PM
Hey Kholi - is there any way to meter or adjust the levels of the sound coming through the mini jack? Or is it always in auto gain control, like the 5D mk II?

squig
04-27-2009, 09:53 PM
can you run some low light tests against the D90 with the tokina?

squig
04-27-2009, 09:54 PM
Criminey.

I hope you're wrong squig.

Thoughts and prayers for those in the hard-hit areas.

sincerely,


ian

I'm afraid not, read the link I posted

Kholi
04-27-2009, 09:56 PM
Hey Kholi - is there any way to meter or adjust the levels of the sound coming through the mini jack? Or is it always in auto gain control, like the 5D mk II?

I have yet to try any audio. Sorry about that! I'll have to find a proper Mic but I haven't run into any audio settings either. Well, at least not that I know of.

Outside of volume control etc.

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 09:56 PM
can you run some low light tests against the D90 with the tokina?

Let it go squig.... Take a deep breath and let the D90 go...It is over. I know it will be painful at first but time heals...

Kholi
04-27-2009, 09:57 PM
There's no point in even bothering comparing with the D90.

The only things I want to see are FOV comparisons. The rest doesn't even matter after what I've seen.

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 10:03 PM
Thoughts and prayers for those in the hard-hit areas.


They also had an earthquake in central mexico today. Thats bad. Our prayers for them indeed.

Rodrigo Medina
04-27-2009, 10:06 PM
So... "Live HDMI" is not an option?

Kholi
04-27-2009, 10:07 PM
Doesn't look like it works. US version will tell the tale. Sorry guys.

Rodrigo Medina
04-27-2009, 10:15 PM
Doesn't look like it works. US version will tell the tale. Sorry guys.

I was dreaming of pro res recording using that new device that AJA announced at NAB. I guess that I was asking for too much at that price, but it still sounds like a really good option and a step in the right direction.

Kholi
04-27-2009, 10:18 PM
Facial Recognition Focus works. Programmed the lady into the camera and it finds her without me doing anything. If she's in the frame it goes to her.

And I got to program it in English. It's a little slow, but I think it's just menu settings.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-27-2009, 10:20 PM
Doesn't look like (live HDMI) works. US version will tell the tale.

Sorry to keep asking, but ... :shocked:

Since it's looking like the GH1 probably doesn't have full-time live HDMI output, can you please check ASAP if it has full-time live SD composite video out? :)

It might not be a deal killer for some, but it's a fairly important question for many potential users of this cam.

Thanks!

Nektonic
04-27-2009, 10:21 PM
So Kholi, I know you can't give the GH-1 a final grade just yet. Am I close in guessing that so far the only real knocks against the GH-1 are that there is no HDMI out for monitoring and uncompressed capture and the 24p-in-a-60i stream that can hassle us during post?

Of course, these issues are not crippling and it is a massively better situation than the D90. Good news is that when and if Panasonic ever got around to producing an HMC150 or HPX170 style camera with a 4/3rds mount, these two issues would be most likely be rendered moot by then.

Basically we're going in the right direction with the GH-1. The bar has been raised. If the only GH-1 issues are no HDMI and 24p embedded in 60i then Canon, Nikon, Sony, JVC, and in terms of 35mm DoF at a great price... even Red might have some big shoes to fill.

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 10:21 PM
Facial Recognition Focus works.

Pretty cool. Its like having an invisible focus puller.


Good news is that when and if Panasonic ever got around to producing an HMC150 or HPX170 style camera with a 4/3rds mount

Thats a scary thought. With maybe AVC Intra 50 at least. And the price shouldn't even go up. Plus all the lenses in the world? Boy oh boy!

dcloud
04-27-2009, 10:40 PM
an HDMI output wouldve blown a lot of cameras to smitherins. think about recording on a external recorder in prores or a high bitrate codec.... mindblower!

RaviSun3D
04-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Facial Recognition Focus works. Programmed the lady into the camera and it finds her without me doing anything. If she's in the frame it goes to her.

And I got to program it in English. It's a little slow, but I think it's just menu settings.
Woow!
Becides Live HDMI, this little piece has toooo many features to learn...!

Why Barry haven't got this camera?
I was hoping for GH1 BootCamp Training DVD before release of the Camera...:evil:

squig
04-27-2009, 10:54 PM
Let it go squig.... Take a deep breath and let the D90 go...It is over. I know it will be painful at first but time heals...

but I like to punish myself.

Andrew Brinkhaus
04-27-2009, 10:55 PM
Is there a crop factor when using Nikon still lenses on this 4/3 system? What is the sensor size (mm?)

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 10:56 PM
Why Barry haven't got this camera?

Well, Barry actually was the one to lit the fire! After he showed deep interest and gave some early approval everybody really paid attention. Now Kholi is doing some more./ Fingers crossed for positive results from the camera.


but I like to punish myself.

Oh you enjoy torturing yourself! :violent5:

squig
04-27-2009, 11:01 PM
an HDMI output wouldve blown a lot of cameras to smitherins. think about recording on a external recorder in prores or a high bitrate codec.... mindblower!

which is exactly why panasonic crippled it. They would have hurt their pro video division.

squig
04-27-2009, 11:02 PM
check the lens thread andrew

squig
04-27-2009, 11:03 PM
Well, Barry actually was the one to lit the fire! After he showed deep interest and gave some early approval everybody really paid attention. Now Kholi is doing some more./ Fingers crossed for positive results from the camera.



Oh you enjoy torturing yourself! :violent5:

yeah I'm an indie filmmaker

and a papa

Nektonic
04-27-2009, 11:05 PM
Thats a scary thought. With maybe AVC Intra 50 at least. And the price shouldn't even go up. Plus all the lenses in the world? Boy oh boy!

Thing is, if anyone is going to give us a prosumer HD cam with a big sensor and removable lens mount, I'd bet it will be Panasonic. Since the days of the first DVX's they've been the most indie filmmaker friendly out of all the others (Sony, JVC, and Canon). Nikon doesn't have any video cameras to protect, so I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for them to be the one to answer our prayers. The D90 was a neat little start to this, but the D400 will be a good indicator of how Nikon really feels about video.

As for Panasonic... now with P2 cards being half the cost, why the hell not?

But for now the GH-1 sounds so darn good that it should keep us busy for awhile.

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 11:19 PM
While we wait for Kholi's reasearch work I thought this story might be of interest to you:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/technology/business-computing/27disk.html?_r=1&hpw (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/technology/business-computing/27disk.html?_r=1&hpw)

DanDOF
04-27-2009, 11:32 PM
Yup! All shutter speeds are accessible. I was giving low shutter figures for those worried about 1/48

So slow motion is possible in post? I'd love to see a sample of 60p to 24p slow motion, Kholi is that possible this week?

RaviSun3D
04-27-2009, 11:46 PM
Kholi, please confirm that it has Time Lapse Recording too...!
Waiting for it :Drogar-Evil(DBG):

ydgmdlu
04-27-2009, 11:46 PM
So slow motion is possible in post? I'd love to see a sample of 60p to 24p slow motion, Kholi is that possible this week?
Slow motion is so ridiculously easy with this camera. All that you have to do is use something like Cinema Tools in Final Cut Studio to conform 60p footage to 24p (just changing the playback frame rate in the file header, basically), and then drop the conformed footage into a 24p timeline in FCP. Is the slo-mo too slow for you? Simple fix, just speed up the footage. See how easy getting faux-overcranked 30-60 fps is? You can even slow down the 60 fps stuff a little bit without it looking too fake.

DanDOF
04-27-2009, 11:52 PM
Good to hear about the slow motion.

You guys think May is a safe time to sell my D90? Photographers wouldnt care about the GH1, so I figure D90 could still sell for near brand new price, whaddya think?

DanDOF
04-27-2009, 11:54 PM
Also Kholi, update your first post about all shutter speeds being available in video mode.

ryansheffer
04-27-2009, 11:56 PM
Kholi,

I'm confused by your statement on the first page after number 12. You got the menu working in English? If so, I'm importing immediately.

ydgmdlu
04-28-2009, 12:02 AM
This is my concern as well... 60p with 1/60 is less than ideal when converting that to 24p slow motion.
Actually, if your plan is to shoot at 60p for an overcranked effect, then the shutter speed that you should be using still would be 1/50. Why? The visual effect of shutter speed, other than on image brightness, is the amount of motion blur. When you shoot at a given shutter speed, that means that each individual frame is exposed for that amount of time; the frame rate of the motion picture is irrelevant.

If you're "overcranking," then the motion blur in each frame should match the motion blur of each frame of regular-speed footage. If you shot 60p footage at 1/120 and slowed it down to 24p, then the footage would look overly juddery and just wouldn't look right when blended with regular-speed footage.

High shutter speeds in cinematography are mostly just useful for action scenes and to get that "Saving Private Ryan" effect.

Just my two cents, anyway.

DanDOF
04-28-2009, 12:11 AM
Actually, if your plan is to shoot at 60p for an overcranked effect, then the shutter speed that you should be using still would be 1/50. Why? The visual effect of shutter speed, other than on image brightness, is the amount of motion blur. When you shoot at a given shutter speed, that means that each individual frame is exposed for that amount of time; the frame rate of the motion picture is irrelevant.

If you're "overcranking," then the motion blur in each frame should match the motion blur of each frame of regular-speed footage. If you shot 60p footage at 1/120 and slowed it down to 24p, then the footage would look overly juddery and just wouldn't look right when blended with regular-speed footage.

High shutter speeds in cinematography are mostly just useful for action scenes and to get that "Saving Private Ryan" effect.

Just my two cents, anyway.

Am I right to assume shooting at higher shutter speeds (1/120th) IS important if using 60i not 60p, since deinterlacing 1/60th video would look "bad"?

Oh mama I wants a GH1! (No more deinterlacing)

Although, I'd also like to know more about what issues people face with 24p embedded in 60i stream? Is this only a problem for render times in a NLE? Or does it effect the image?

squig
04-28-2009, 12:12 AM
Good to hear about the slow motion.

You guys think May is a safe time to sell my D90? Photographers wouldnt care about the GH1, so I figure D90 could still sell for near brand new price, whaddya think?

Hard to know how many D90 users bought it to shoot video. Mb Isaac can shed some light on how many dvxusers view the D90 forum

Mine's going on ebay as soon as I see something decent from kholi, hunter, and that other geezer

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:23 AM
Sorry to keep asking, but ... :shocked:

Since it's looking like the GH1 probably doesn't have full-time live HDMI output, can you please check ASAP if it has full-time live SD composite video out? :)

It might not be a deal killer for some, but it's a fairly important question for many potential users of this cam.

Thanks!

Funny thing is that I haven't been close to an SD/Composite output yet. LoL.

You guys might find out before I get close to one. This cable seems familiar, though. I think it comes in Component also? That might be a good thing.

ProLost
04-28-2009, 12:24 AM
Actually, if your plan is to shoot at 60p for an overcranked effect, then the shutter speed that you should be using still would be 1/50. Why? The visual effect of shutter speed, other than on image brightness, is the amount of motion blur. When you shoot at a given shutter speed, that means that each individual frame is exposed for that amount of time; the frame rate of the motion picture is irrelevant.

If you're "overcranking," then the motion blur in each frame should match the motion blur of each frame of regular-speed footage. If you shot 60p footage at 1/120 and slowed it down to 24p, then the footage would look overly juddery and just wouldn't look right when blended with regular-speed footage.

High shutter speeds in cinematography are mostly just useful for action scenes and to get that "Saving Private Ryan" effect.

Just my two cents, anyway.

You can't shoot at 60fps with a 1/50 shutter. The slowest shutter you could use would be 1/60.

For the filmic look, you want a 180º shutter. At 60 fps, that's 1/120.

-Stu

dcloud
04-28-2009, 12:25 AM
Actually, if your plan is to shoot at 60p for an overcranked effect, then the shutter speed that you should be using still would be 1/50. Why? The visual effect of shutter speed, other than on image brightness, is the amount of motion blur. When you shoot at a given shutter speed, that means that each individual frame is exposed for that amount of time; the frame rate of the motion picture is irrelevant.

If you're "overcranking," then the motion blur in each frame should match the motion blur of each frame of regular-speed footage. If you shot 60p footage at 1/120 and slowed it down to 24p, then the footage would look overly juddery and just wouldn't look right when blended with regular-speed footage.

High shutter speeds in cinematography are mostly just useful for action scenes and to get that "Saving Private Ryan" effect.

Just my two cents, anyway.
ive shot 60p at 1/120 and 60p at 1/60...
1/60 looks horrendous at high speed subjects.
1/120 looked exactly like 24p 1/48

its all in the dv rebels guide

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:29 AM
So Kholi, I know you can't give the GH-1 a final grade just yet. Am I close in guessing that so far the only real knocks against the GH-1 are that there is no HDMI out for monitoring and uncompressed capture and the 24p-in-a-60i stream that can hassle us during post?

Of course, these issues are not crippling and it is a massively better situation than the D90. Good news is that when and if Panasonic ever got around to producing an HMC150 or HPX170 style camera with a 4/3rds mount, these two issues would be most likely be rendered moot by then.

Basically we're going in the right direction with the GH-1. The bar has been raised. If the only GH-1 issues are no HDMI and 24p embedded in 60i then Canon, Nikon, Sony, JVC, and in terms of 35mm DoF at a great price... even Red might have some big shoes to fill.


Knocks so far:

1. Kit Lens has an Odd will of it's own on the wide end. Seems to want to still compensate for exposure but you can BARELY tell. You have to look for it to see it. But it's just the kit lens doing that at the wide end, zooming in and out does it.

2. Codec May break up under certain areas of the light spectrum? Does this make sense? Seems like tungsten balance causes more compression noise than daylight. So Lowlight suffers, I think the lowlight is directly comparable to the EX-1.

3. No HDMI Live/Live HDMI output

4. Can't Snap a Photo During Movie Recording, or at least I have that option turned off or something in MOVIE MODE. You CAN do it while recording in any other mode. I might have an option turned off or something.


When someone more efficient with Compression and how it behaves gets ahold of it we'll know more about compression. Right now, I can say that it's leagues ahead of the D90.

As an entire kit the bar HAS been raised. Regardless of who wants to hear it or not. The damned thing with a slow zoom on it is ready for action, and only people who are looking for reasons not to shoot will whine.

If Panasonic did this at 1500.00 Street Price, then the rest of the MAJOR manufactureres MUST respond and match or beat it. SCARLET's an afterthought over here.

ydgmdlu
04-28-2009, 12:29 AM
ive shot 60p at 1/120 and 60p at 1/60...
1/60 looks horrendous at high speed subjects.
1/120 looked exactly like 24p 1/48

its all in the dv rebels guide
Never mind my post then. But my question is were you playing that 60p back at 24 fps, or at 60 fps? I would imagine that 60p at anything slower than 1/120 would look odd.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:31 AM
So slow motion is possible in post? I'd love to see a sample of 60p to 24p slow motion, Kholi is that possible this week?

COUNT on slow mo this week. And a lot of other interesting stuff.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:33 AM
Kholi, please confirm that it has Time Lapse Recording too...!
Waiting for it :Drogar-Evil(DBG):

Will check. Every time I go into the menus and start toying I find something else out.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:34 AM
Kholi,

I'm confused by your statement on the first page after number 12. You got the menu working in English? If so, I'm importing immediately.

Sorry. I meant I could save the person's name in English. So there's English buried in the camera.

Hunter Hampton
04-28-2009, 12:36 AM
No timelapse recording mode in camera... but you can plug in an intervelometer through the remote/mic port. You can buy the generic "timer remote" on ebay for about $50 for the G1/GH1.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:37 AM
COLOR PROFILES -- You can save custom versions of Panasonic's curves. There are SEVERAL, and versionso f Black and whites as well.

Example; Adjust the DYNAMIC preset curve and lower saturation, etc, then save it.

Totally stumbled onto this while nitpicking through things. Saved two color profiles that I'm quite happy with.

This may allude to building custom curves in other software. Sweet.

dadoboy
04-28-2009, 12:37 AM
I sold my D60 last month. You should be able to get at least 80% of the brand new price of the D90 if its in great condition. The D90 is still a fine digital still camera, not even a year old. What's hurting prices right now isn't the GH1, it's just that a lot of people are broke. You've gotta admit, your petition for the D90 may be too little, too late, for a cause that's no longer relevent.

The GH1 is the hottest forum on dvxuser in terms of viewers! For a while, I think it may be Panasonic's hottest item. So go buy, buy, buy the GH1! So that the Japanese overlords in Mordor understand that's what we want - large sensors.

I just wish the same specs came in a bigger form factor!


You guys think May is a safe time to sell my D90? Photographers wouldnt care about the GH1, so I figure D90 could still sell for near brand new price, whaddya think?

ydgmdlu
04-28-2009, 12:37 AM
You can't shoot at 60fps with a 1/50 shutter. The slowest shutter you could use would be 1/60.

For the filmic look, you want a 180º shutter. At 60 fps, that's 1/120.

-Stu
After thinking about it for a minute, I realized that you are correct.

However, I stand by my opinion that overcranked footage should be shot with a 360º shutter. The "filmic look" is achieved through a combination of the motion judder of 24 fps playback and the motion blur of 1/48s exposure time. It should have nothing to do with "shutter angle." Thus, 1/60s 60p played at 24 fps should look more film-like than than 1/120s 60p at 24 fps. But I've never done this myself, so I can't say for certain.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:39 AM
UPDATE: You don't see what you're actually REALLY getting on the LCD until you hit record. So don't be fooled. It looks better than you think!

squig
04-28-2009, 12:51 AM
In regards to the codec breaking up. The dark background area in Barry's footage appeared to get some added aliasing when I did the prores reverse telecine. Looked ugly on my mac.

So the D90 still beats it in low light?

Kholi
04-28-2009, 01:02 AM
The D90 doesn't beat anything. Don't go jumping the gun.


There are several reasons that I could be seeing that break-up, the major one being that I HAVE A JApANESE CAMERA.

I'm still learning the menus and committing functions to memory.

squig
04-28-2009, 01:03 AM
2. Codec May break up under certain areas of the light spectrum? Does this make sense? Seems like tungsten balance causes more compression noise than daylight. So Lowlight suffers, I think the lowlight is directly comparable to the EX-1.

what happens if you shoot with a cooler white balance under the tungstens? maybe it needs a bit of tricking ala D90

squig
04-28-2009, 01:06 AM
my only real concern now is how the codec is gonna hold up after prores conversion grading and rendering.

kholi dis the D90 after we sell them butthead

Kholi
04-28-2009, 01:06 AM
There's no real tricking anything. The camera even has a manual white balance setting that allows you to dial in 100 increments from 2500K to 10000K

Like I said. This is just day one.

And lucky for me my MSI WIND is about to die, which means I'm more inclined to actally sleep.

RaviSun3D
04-28-2009, 01:08 AM
Kholi,
How do you compare quality of GH1 with HMC150 having same Codec?
Is there any major difference?

Kholi
04-28-2009, 01:10 AM
Did I mention that the GH-1 stomps the D90 and the MKii into the ground as far as Jello goes?

What does Panasonic's DSLR Department know that the rest don't?

squig
04-28-2009, 01:11 AM
noooooooo!

shoot something!

100 increments nice.

I mean tricking it shooting cooler if the codec can't manage warm then warming it in post

Kholi
04-28-2009, 01:11 AM
Kholi,
How do you compare quality of GH1 with HMC150 having same Codec?
Is there any major difference?

I'm not sure. I haven't messed with the HMC150. But I think it's fair to say it like this:

The GH-1 makes me think of a SONY EX-1 with Interchangeable lens options.

It's also got this "heavy" quality to it, like the D90 had. Somehow averting the flat feeling.

squig
04-28-2009, 01:12 AM
the speed of the venus engine is helping with the jello I suspect

squig
04-28-2009, 01:13 AM
heavy? warm filmic?

RaviSun3D
04-28-2009, 01:23 AM
I'm not sure. I haven't messed with the HMC150. But I think it's fair to say it like this:

The GH-1 makes me think of a SONY EX-1 with Interchangeable lens options.

It's also got this "heavy" quality to it, like the D90 had. Somehow averting the flat feeling.

But I think Bitrate could make lot more difference.
Its like Sharp vs Smooth.

Barry's footage looks smooth though!

dcloud
04-28-2009, 01:59 AM
After thinking about it for a minute, I realized that you are correct.

However, I stand by my opinion that overcranked footage should be shot with a 360º shutter. The "filmic look" is achieved through a combination of the motion judder of 24 fps playback and the motion blur of 1/48s exposure time. It should have nothing to do with "shutter angle." Thus, 1/60s 60p played at 24 fps should look more film-like than than 1/120s 60p at 24 fps. But I've never done this myself, so I can't say for certain.ive done it. yes in a 24p timeline. i could post footages of a 1/60. the motion blur of a 1/60 is too much.

ProLost
04-28-2009, 02:01 AM
After thinking about it for a minute, I realized that you are correct.

However, I stand by my opinion that overcranked footage should be shot with a 360º shutter. The "filmic look" is achieved through a combination of the motion judder of 24 fps playback and the motion blur of 1/48s exposure time. It should have nothing to do with "shutter angle." Thus, 1/60s 60p played at 24 fps should look more film-like than than 1/120s 60p at 24 fps. But I've never done this myself, so I can't say for certain.

Look at it this way. A film camera can't do a 360º shutter. It can go narrower (faster) than 180º, but not slower. So when a film crew overcranks to 60fps for 24 fps playback, they are most likely using a 180º shutter, or 1/120. It's possible they could use a faster shutter (90º would be 1/240), but not a slower one. So for the filmic look, do what film does, 180º shutter when overcranking to 120 for 24p playback.

You are welcome to your opinion, but I am not arguing opinions, I am stating facts—this is how film cameras work, and I have done this myself, both on film and video, so I can say for certain.

-Stu

divide
04-28-2009, 02:24 AM
Beware while looking footage on the web, that Noise Reduction is very likely on, and does not reflect true AVCHD capabilities in terme of sharpness.
I'm eagerly looking forward .MTS files from the GH1 without Noise Reduction !

dcloud
04-28-2009, 02:27 AM
ydgmdlu:
here ya go! uploaded just for you!
1/60 vs 1/120
http://www.vimeo.com/4371870

ydgmdlu
04-28-2009, 02:34 AM
Look at it this way. A film camera can't do a 360º shutter. It can go narrower (faster) than 180º, but not slower. So when a film crew overcranks to 60fps for 24 fps playback, they are most likely using a 180º shutter, or 1/120. It's possible they could use a faster shutter (90º would be 1/240), but not a slower one. So for the filmic look, do what film does, 180º shutter when overcranking to 120 for 24p playback.

You are welcome to your opinion, but I am not arguing opinions, I am stating facts—this is how film cameras work, and I have done this myself, both on film and video, so I can say for certain.

-Stu
I'm not disputing the technical details. I realize that in film, the shutter angle would have to be 180º or less. I was merely musing about the proper amount of motion blur. In my opinion, overcranking with a 360º electronic shutter should yield more "correct" results than using a 180º shutter.

But I'll concede that we've all been conditioned to accept a 180º shutter as more "filmic," just like we've all been conditioned to think that 24 fps is ideal for narrative filmmaking. It's not that it's right, it's just the way that it is.

Rakesh Jacob
04-28-2009, 02:35 AM
After thinking about it for a minute, I realized that you are correct.

However, I stand by my opinion that overcranked footage should be shot with a 360º shutter. The "filmic look" is achieved through a combination of the motion judder of 24 fps playback and the motion blur of 1/48s exposure time. It should have nothing to do with "shutter angle." Thus, 1/60s 60p played at 24 fps should look more film-like than than 1/120s 60p at 24 fps. But I've never done this myself, so I can't say for certain.

LOL DUDE NUMBERS are soooo NOT something you understand. Either step away from the computer or just don't touch any thing above "qwertyuiop"

ydgmdlu
04-28-2009, 02:36 AM
ydgmdlu:
here ya go! uploaded just for you!
1/60 vs 1/120
http://www.vimeo.com/4371870

Huh, I see what you mean now. Thanks! Though, I wonder why that is... Need to think some more on this...

divide
04-28-2009, 02:40 AM
I'm not disputing the technical details. I realize that in film, the shutter angle would have to be 180º or less. I was merely musing about the proper amount of motion blur. In my opinion, overcranking with a 360º electronic shutter should yield more "correct" results than using a 180º shutter.

But I'll concede that we've all been conditioned to accept a 180º shutter as more "filmic," just like we've all been conditioned to think that 24 fps is ideal for narrative filmmaking. It's not that it's right, it's just the way that it is.

Dude, the math is simple: film-look=24fps@1/48
Shot 60fps@1/120, then divide the speed by 2.5, you have 60/2.5=24fps and exposure time 1/(120/2.5)=1/48.
If you shot 60fps@1/60, then divide the speed by 2.5, you have 24fps@1/24, which is not filmic.

However, footage linked by dcloud is not a fair comparison, as both footage were not slowed down by the same factor...

dcloud
04-28-2009, 03:21 AM
Dude, the math is simple: film-look=24fps@1/48
Shot 60fps@1/120, then divide the speed by 2.5, you have 60/2.5=24fps and exposure time 1/(120/2.5)=1/48.
If you shot 60fps@1/60, then divide the speed by 2.5, you have 24fps@1/24, which is not filmic.

However, footage linked by dcloud is not a fair comparison, as both footage were not slowed down by the same factor...
what factor?
i just conformed 60p to 24p timeline.no time stretching or whatsoever thats it.
(selected footage, interpret footage, conform to 23.97, drag to new composition) I did the same procedure on both footages.

divide
04-28-2009, 03:35 AM
Seems to me that the first footage (1/60 exposure) shows less frame per second, you can feel each frame, while the second one (1/120 exposure) is fluid while it should have look more laggy (since each frame has less exposure). One possible explanation is that your cam only record 1 frame out of 2 when shoting 60fps@1/60

jamesmallonuk
04-28-2009, 03:41 AM
What are the audio controls on the GH1?

Have you tried an external mic?

PappasArts
04-28-2009, 04:12 AM
Koli, any footage posted yet?

John Caballero
04-28-2009, 04:58 AM
He fell asleep at the wheel (camera).

Cazeaux
04-28-2009, 06:24 AM
I am now in Japan on holidays and a camera shop is just beside the hotel so I managed to test the GH1.

I wanted to record on a SD card but I couldn't as the slot was taped (to bad). I will try to find one tomorrow in Tokyo with no tape.

I must say, that compared to a movie camera, it is very heavy due to the lense (14-140).
There is no auto zoom in/out. I was very surprised at it is one of most wanted function on a movie camera. But to get from 140 down to 14, it is only 1/4 turn on the lense ... but you need 2 hands or a tripod.

The AF is very accurate and lot of options to choose AF mode

The is not indication on the focus ring of the lense. So, it is a bit to turn the ring with no "hard stop" and phyical indication of where you sit.

When shooting at dark areas, the video seems to be OK with no noise on the screen which is a + for me.

This is what I can say and I forgot to test the manual setting of the mic.. It is rather difficult as the current model is only in japanese with no langage alternative

LizaWitz
04-28-2009, 06:47 AM
which is exactly why panasonic crippled it. They would have hurt their pro video division.

I think panasonic didn't cripple it, they just never thought that any significant number of people would want a full uncompressed HDMI out while shooting. The target market for this camera, much as we don't want to admit it, is holiday shooters who want to produce more "professional" looking stills and video than they have been previously getting from their point and shoots. These people then want to take the camera to their hotel room and watch the video or look at their pictures (in the convenient slide show program which allows you to add music, etc) on the hotel TV.

I think the important technical challenge for Panasonic when it comes to HDMI was how they were going to give the customer a convenient way to add music to their slideshow!

I think it would be pretty eye opening for everyone to go to the Panasonic Global marketing site for this camera. It will tell you the features, and it will give you a very strong perspective on what features Panasonic believes are important to the target audience. I think you might be surprised:

http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh1/index.html


What does Panasonic's DSLR Department know that the rest don't?

All the rest of the DSLRs shoot movies because someone in the lab said "Hey, we've got live view, lets just record the datastream and call it a video mode!" and the marketing department, always eager for an extra feature box they can check off approved it. Seriously, dropping half the pixels is fine for live view. Nobody cares about jello in live view because your eyeballs will be vibrating in sync with the camera and you wouldn't notice. This is also why there are lack of manual controls-- anything they didn't get by default (because they didn't need it for stills) is lost in these cameras movie modes.

This is why I say the GH1 camera is a game changer. Its the first DSLR that was designed to shoot video. With that intention, they made a new type of lens that is silently autofocuses, the put in the manual controls and most importantly from a technological viewpoint they designed a dual CPU system and a new quad channel sensor. To be honest I'm a little surprised, and I suspect they're a little embarrassed that there's any sensor skew at all. I suspect this is a design flaw due to them being a bit too aggressive and having to back off and suffer some skew to avoid a secondary effect (possibly overheating, but also possibly draining the battery too fast, or something like that.)

The other guys, if they even care about this market, are a year behind, at least. I don't know whether the D90 or the 5D have been huge successes from their parent companies perspective. We get excited, but we may not make a dent in their overall sales. For panasonic its a lower bar to make a dent in their overall sales, and the G1 has been very popular for many of these reasons (a DSLR without the R).

So, while we aren't really the mainstream target market, we are likely to have more influence over them. I don't think Canon or Nikon will take video mode seriously until camcorders start suffering because people are using these kinds of cameras. I think we'll see our next viable contender from Samsung (assuming "viable" requires a price under $3k, eg, not scarlet.) There would have to be someone pretty radical in the marketing department at Sony, Canon or Nikon for them to make a camera like this-- but they aren't even to the point of giving up their mechanical mirrors, I don't think video is going to be important to them until its a totally non-radical thing to do. But this is reading tea leaves, I hope I'm wrong.



There is no auto zoom in/out. I was very surprised at it is one of most wanted function on a movie camera. But to get from 140 down to 14, it is only 1/4 turn on the lense ... but you need 2 hands or a tripod.

Given the target market, that is a bit of a surprise, and I suspect this is due to the complexity it would add to the lens. Are there any SLR lenses on the market with a power zoom?

But this is a feature for us-- it says "thou shalt not zoom while shooting and hope to use the footage!"

artforme
04-28-2009, 06:54 AM
I think Panasonic is very aware of the professional and serious projects the GH1 can be used for. I've seen interviews with Panay reps stating that the video mode is geared toward the advanced user or entry level professional.

They of course want your average consumer to buy one too, but with all of the advanced users raving about the GH1, it will make your average joe want one even more. So I imagine Panasonic thought about people such as us as free advertisement for there pretty awesome new product. I think the GH1 will make the four thirds camera system even sexier. Now if they would only come out with a 6-8 megapixel camera with a focus on high ISO performance, it would be a near perfect camera.

BTW: Is there a world wide release chart for the GH1? I'm in South Korea now...

EDIT: one more question: Kholi, are you planning on getting a nikon adapter for your GH1?

PaPa
04-28-2009, 07:58 AM
just to clear this up, there appears to be no live hdmi, butcan we still plug in an external monitor for focus and exposure?

Tracey Lee
04-28-2009, 08:03 AM
Kholi, please tell us the LCD screen is better for focusing than the crappy thing the HVX gave us :)

dcloud
04-28-2009, 08:15 AM
well half press gives autofocus on face recognitiion... that should be very helpful

SonicStates
04-28-2009, 08:22 AM
I think I might have to go for walk tomorrow and part with some cash...149,000 yen minus the 30,000 yen on the old point card...sweet dreams

...recommendations for lenses?...Oh and BTW Kholi do you work for Panasonic Marketing Dept. because I don't know why but the part of my brain which is usually rational is screaming "By that #$%#ing camera!"?

Just asking

LizaWitz
04-28-2009, 08:30 AM
That's a nice discount. But I have been waiting for this camera for about 4 months, and I figure I'll wait another month and get it in engrish.

Jack Daniel Stanley
04-28-2009, 08:30 AM
...Oh and BTW Kholi do you work for Panasonic Marketing Dept. because I don't know why but the part of my brain which is usually rational is screaming "By that #$%#ing camera!"?

Just asking

Kholi works for the resolution, bokeh, controllable DOF, manual settings control, color space, ease of use gods.

ChipG
04-28-2009, 08:33 AM
Kholi,

Get out of bed man! :)

BTW Your thread has 8,000 views in 12+ hours. Start fliming a bootcamp for it!

SonicStates
04-28-2009, 08:34 AM
That's a nice discount. But I have been waiting for this camera for about 4 months, and I figure I'll wait another month and get it in engrish.

Hehehehe...yeah, it's really a Japanese course and camera in 1 for me...yay! wait....bloody Panasonic...oh well been dodging the kanji for long enough I suppose <sigh>

I always figured Kholi was working for higher powers

Kholi
04-28-2009, 08:42 AM
I'm back from that sleep thing... it was very unproductive. Answering questions in the next post.

squig
04-28-2009, 08:47 AM
hey kholi did you end up buying the 58mm voigtlander?

Tracey Lee
04-28-2009, 08:49 AM
So is there a way to buy this imported yet? Kholi, you have the Japanese version and I think I recall Phil Bloom saying he had an English one from the UK.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 08:54 AM
Koli, any footage posted yet?

None to show. There's plenty of flowers and poodles popping up. I'm waiting until I have something better to show. Won't be a long wait at all, don't worry.


I think Panasonic is very aware of the professional and serious projects the GH1 can be used for. I've seen interviews with Panay reps stating that the video mode is geared toward the advanced user or entry level professional.

EDIT: one more question: Kholi, are you planning on getting a nikon adapter for your GH1?

Agreed. And I'll have a Nikon and Contax C/Y Adapter within the next few days. Hoping BEFORE the weekend.


just to clear this up, there appears to be no live hdmi, butcan we still plug in an external monitor for focus and exposure?

Going to try the Composite Source today. Will report back in a few.


Kholi, please tell us the LCD screen is better for focusing than the crappy thing the HVX gave us :)


I don't think so. I was fine with the HVX LCD, though. There are a number of ways to focus with this so I don't think it'll be an issue. But mileage may very.


I think I might have to go for walk tomorrow and part with some cash...149,000 yen minus the 30,000 yen on the old point card...sweet dreams

...recommendations for lenses?...Oh and BTW Kholi do you work for Panasonic Marketing Dept. because I don't know why but the part of my brain which is usually rational is screaming "By that #$%#ing camera!"?

Just asking


Kholi works for the resolution, bokeh, controllable DOF, manual settings control, color space, ease of use gods.


Listen to Jack. LoL.


Kholi,

Get out of bed man! :)

BTW Your thread has 8,000 views in 12+ hours. Start fliming a bootcamp for it!


I'm up I'm up! Now where's that Car Mount...

Texanite
04-28-2009, 08:55 AM
So is there a way to buy this imported yet? Kholi, you have the Japanese version and I think I recall Phil Bloom saying he had an English one from the UK.

My guess is that Kholi had it purchased and then delivered. My 2nd guess is that Phil Bloom got one ala Laforet, where Panasonic gave him one because he's a rockstar.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 08:56 AM
hey kholi did you end up buying the 58mm voigtlander?

No Voigtlanders here. I'm Sticking with my Zeiss and Nikons.


So is there a way to buy this imported yet? Kholi, you have the Japanese version and I think I recall Phil Bloom saying he had an English one from the UK.

Find someone in Japan or UK to send to you and you'll be good.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-28-2009, 08:59 AM
just to clear this up, there appears to be no live hdmi, butcan we still plug in an external monitor for focus and exposure?

Apparently Kholi -- who I thank immensely for investing in and testing a Japanese-language GH1 -- doesn't own a VHS VCR he can plug the GH1's composite video cable into, so he can't test that particular feature. :laugh:

To be fair to Kholi, plugging-in the GH1's special USB-to-RCA composite & stereo audio adapter cable will only tell us what the cam is programmed to do by default at the factory. Beyond that, it's a crap shoot as far as whatever Kholi can discover in his cam's Japanese-only menus.

If we're unbelievably lucky, the GH1 -- like just about every other video-enabled "consumer" device ever manufactured in the last 20 years -- will output live composite video by default.

If it doesn't, and if it isn't easily enabled via the cam's menus, then I vote for the most likely cause to be Panasonic internal politics, with technical realities a more distant second most likely cause.

If the GH1 doesn't output live composite video, that's about all the proof you need that Panasonic knows _exactly_ what this cam is all about and how fundamentally it has/had the potential to shake the prosumer & pro video cam business to its core. If Panasonic hasn't enabled live video out of the GH1, believe me it isn't by accident or an oversight. As Barry said, it is what it is.

Don't get me wrong: If the GH1 can't output live composite video, clever video pros will still find a 1,000 & 1 uses for the cam. Lack of live video is not necessarily a deal killer for many applications, but of course for some it is.

... On the other hand, if the GH1 _can_ output live composite video -- s-o-o-o-o very useful for pros who need external monitoring for framing, focus, blocking, directing, scratch video, jibbing, steadicamming, rigging, etc. etc. etc. -- let alone just for consumers goofing around in their living rooms while watching themselves & their friends live on their TV -- then I will give Panasonic a big "thank you!". And then we can get to work!

- Peter
www.peterdv.com (http://www.peterdv.com)

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-28-2009, 09:22 AM
None to show. There's plenty of flowers and poodles popping up. I'm waiting until I have something better to show. Won't be a long wait at all, don't worry. ...

Much thanks, Kholi!

If it's not already on your shooting list, may I suggest/request a relatively "simple" clip be at least a few seconds of a sit-down "CBS 60 Minutes"-style interview/portrait? With foreground & background props out-of-focus, nice lighting, etc. ... I know you know the drill. In other words, not like the crap on _my_ website! :shocked:

That & a million other touchingly classic TV/film moments -- and dynamic range tests -- would be fabulous. :happy:

- Peter
www.peterdv.com

SonicStates
04-28-2009, 09:27 AM
X 2 if you don't mind. I'm really amped to see what this thing can do with attention to lighting...4 hours before the sun rises and I clamber out of the door bound for Lumix-ville....I need Kholi footage STAT!!!

DavidNJ
04-28-2009, 09:27 AM
I am not so sure that there is a master plan to disable his camera or professional use. Most likely it was sort of as a competitor to Sony and Canon consumer camcorders and entry-level DSLRs. These cameras often have 24p and "cine-look" features.

Panasonic started with a $700 camera with a smaller sensor (4/3rd vs. APS-C common in entry level DSLRs). The video features more than doubled the cost of the camera.

The live HDMI was probably an early chip or board level decision, just as the manual and semi-automatic controls probably were for Canon. It could have been a later decision if testing showed problems that couldn't be resolved. Panasonic product managers would probably have loved to have shipped the camera for last year's holiday season or this year to catch the spring blooms, school graduations, and June weddings (consumer reasons to buy a new camera).

Other than a non-existent RED Scarlet, it is quite possible that this camera has the best video image coming off the sensor of any camera within 10-20xs its price. Nearly all our non-laudatory conversation has focused on getting that image off the camera adn to a lesser extent control functions. The control functions have only been introduced as people actually have cameras.

A note I have observed in video/still cameras departments. This camera will probably be with still cameras just as the current hybrid DSLRs are from Canon and Nikon. In that deparment, the GH1 will be more expensive than a D90 or 50D. Much more expensive than a T1i or D5000. Those larger cameras will feel more substantial in buyer's hands. Buyers in that department aren't looking for video features even if they are shown them. In the video department, the camera isn't there and few other than the customers for prosumer cameras go to those departments expecting to pay over $1000 or so. How many shops selling prosumer video cameras have the current D90 or 5DM2? Different distribution channels, lower price points, and smaller margins make them less attractive to vendors. In the end, this camera could walk on water and still be a hard sell in the mass market.

All this to say Panasonic had a lot of issues to meet the needs of their target audience. An alternative to a HMC150 with 35mm adapter probably never entered the conversation.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 09:34 AM
peter and sonic -- will do. I got some component to sdi converters. Will know about composite as soon as I finish my visit to Samys camera for lens adapter rings.

Solomon Chase
04-28-2009, 09:36 AM
Find someone in Japan or UK to send to you and you'll be good.

Kholi,
I've got a buddy traveling in the UK right now who could buy one for me. I thought it was only released in Japan?

Steve Castle
04-28-2009, 09:38 AM
So is there a way to buy this imported yet?

For future reference, to purchase from Japanese stores when outside of Japan, there are service like this:
http://japanesetradition.net/shipping/service.html
That will purchase products from Japan for you and send it to you. They will charge you 7-14% of the purchase price if its between $1,000-$2,000.

Best place to check prices is Kakaku:
http://kakaku.com/item/K0000027526/
For the GH-1 the price currently ranges from around $1,300-$1,500.

Amazon.jp you can order in English:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/Panasonic-%E3%83%87%E3%82%B8%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AB%E4%B8%80%E7%9 C%BC%E3%83%AC%E3%83%95%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A1%E3%83%A9-%E3%83%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BA%E3%82%AD%E3%83%83%E3%8 3%88-%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%8 3%88%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-DMC-GH1K-K/dp/B0021L90IE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1240936108&sr=8-2

It cheaper online, but stores like Bic/Yodobashi give you a point system that is around 1point=1yen. For the GH-1 they will give 10% point of the purchase price, which is like ~$150.

For the GH-1 however, since it should be released in May-June there is little incentive to buy from Japan. Especially being that the menus are all in Japanese.

Jay Birch
04-28-2009, 09:41 AM
i've not heard of any release on the UK/European market. Maybe the guy getting one shipped from UK has some connection with Panasonic?

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-28-2009, 09:43 AM
Kholi,
I've got a buddy traveling in the UK right now who could buy one for me. I thought it was only released in Japan?

I believe Panasonic Europe announced the GH1 will be available in Europe in "June".

UK:
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/LUMIX+Digital+Cameras/G+Micro+System/DMC-GH1/Overview/2146692/index.html

Germany:
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2F217.7.21.86%2Fproduct%2Fproduct.asp %3FsStr%3D4%40-%4010%4022%40369%40%40%40%40%40%40DMC-GH1KEG9K%40Kompakt%3A|Stylish%2FCreative%40%26altM od%3DN%26upper%3D%26prop%3D&sl=de&tl=en&history_state0=

I believe Phil Bloom said he's getting a GH1 with English menus through a special arrangement with Panasonic, but I could be mistaken.

- Peter
www.peterdv.com

Zim
04-28-2009, 09:43 AM
Can you use Nikon lenses like the 70-200VR or the 17-55 2.8 with the GH1?

xmephestox
04-28-2009, 09:44 AM
maybe a firmware update down the road for live hdmi output? that way you get full raster 1080p live out? and i'm sure there will be work around, more of a pain, but the community is smart and will figure out ways. even if it means attempt the shot and watch playback to see if u have the shot.

does anybody have still galleries other than what's on the panasonic site up yet? i really want to know how the stills compare to the original g1, and even a 5d in low light and so on.

and i'm not 100% sped up on how 4/3 lens system works. it's stock lens covers a broad range, equivalent in 35 mm to a 28-280 zoom. but it's a slow lens, with it being a smaller sensor does it lose more light, gain back more light, or it's the same?

SonicStates
04-28-2009, 09:45 AM
I'm with Mr. Castle on waiting. Although many of the menus can be navigated and optimized easily enough even in Japanese...for the finer tuning it can be a pain in the ass. I've been here (Japan) for near on 10 years and my wife/translator service ( :) ) is Japanese so help is almost always at hand...(can you believe she is actually pushing me to buy the damn thing tomorrow!!! What's up with that!!!?)

Tracey Lee
04-28-2009, 09:55 AM
Dude, you got a free ticket...go for it. Wish my wife would do that.

Ian-T
04-28-2009, 09:55 AM
...(can you believe she is actually pushing me to buy the damn thing tomorrow!!! What's up with that!!!?)Must be nice having a wife that supports your film/photo endeavors. I'm still trying to figure out how I can sneak this purchase in without mine knowing about it....(sigh)..

Tracey Lee
04-28-2009, 09:58 AM
Must be nice having a wife that supports your film/photo endeavors. I'm still trying to figure out how I can sneak this purchase in without mine knowing about it....(sigh)..

Ian, if you have enough other gear to sell that you will come out ahead so you can have extra cash to take her out for the weekend...that usually works for me ;)

squig
04-28-2009, 09:58 AM
mine threw a maracca at my head cause I was spending too much time here!

SonicStates
04-28-2009, 09:59 AM
Perhaps it's the lure of "You can use it any time you want..." which has her convinced she might, even for a nano second get her grubby mitts on it....A-hahahaha. How we laughed! :)

Steve Castle
04-28-2009, 10:00 AM
Can you use Nikon lenses like the 70-200VR or the 17-55 2.8 with the GH1?

Yes, there are F-mount adapters. But keep in mind that any lenses without an aperture ring will require you use an adapter that has a aperture ring plunger.

Nikon made a Nikkor lens to a C mount for movie cameras that had an aperture plunger. The only way currently to use a Nikkor without an aperture ring with the GH-1 and still be able to control aperature is to buy that adapter, and a u4/3rd to C-mount adapter and stack them. I'm sure soon there will be u4/3rds adapters that have the aperture ring control so the need to stack-them won't be necessary.

Tracey Lee
04-28-2009, 10:00 AM
Kholi, forgive me for my ignorance, but can you tell use what the 2x crop of the GH1 does? What happens to the FOV or DOF when using Nikon lenses for example?

Ian-T
04-28-2009, 10:02 AM
Ian, if you have enough other gear to sell that you will come out ahead so you can have extra cash to take her out for the weekend...that usually works for me ;)....hmm...you just reminded me...next month is the last payment on one of my automobiles....:happy: Good lookin out!! :)

SonicStates
04-28-2009, 10:04 AM
mine threw a maracca at my head cause I was spending too much time here!
I guess that's one of the benefits of living here. It's too late for the lady to be up but the rest (almost) of you are just waking up, or somewhere in between. Damn, I feel privileged. :thumbsup: And cheers for allowing me to soak up the vast wealth of expertise found at DVXUSER....group hug

Texanite
04-28-2009, 10:05 AM
Amazon.jp you can order in English:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/Panasonic-%E3%83%87%E3%82%B8%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AB%E4%B8%80%E7%9 C%BC%E3%83%AC%E3%83%95%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A1%E3%83%A9-%E3%83%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BA%E3%82%AD%E3%83%83%E3%8 3%88-%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%8 3%88%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-DMC-GH1K-K/dp/B0021L90IE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1240936108&sr=8-2

Thanks for those links Steve, but FWIW, you can't order the GH1 from Amazon Japan to be shipped to the US. I tried last week or so and it tells you that it can't be exported to the US.

squig
04-28-2009, 10:06 AM
it's a perilous mission

DavidNJ
04-28-2009, 10:15 AM
Although the price in Japan is under US$1400.

Oedipax
04-28-2009, 10:18 AM
Kholi, how'd you swing the import? Did you have someone you know in Japan mail it?

Barry_Green
04-28-2009, 10:31 AM
Why Barry haven't got this camera?
I was hoping for GH1 BootCamp Training DVD before release of the Camera...:evil:
After playing with it at NAB, I made two decisions:
1) I will get one of these
2) I will do a book and maybe a DVD on this.

This thing is going to be huge. I'm very encouraged by Kholi's experimentation.

SonicStates
04-28-2009, 10:37 AM
This thing is going to be huge. I'm very encouraged by Kholi's experimentation.

Me too. Now where is the footy? I've been waiting almost 10 minutes!!!:evil:

Steve Castle
04-28-2009, 10:48 AM
Thanks for those links Steve, but FWIW, you can't order the GH1 from Amazon Japan to be shipped to the US. I tried last week or so and it tells you that it can't be exported to the US.

Right, you'll need to use the service I linked to.

With the service you can have the product sent to their address, pay for it using your credit card, and they will send the product to you from Japan. If you do it that way they will only charge you 7%, if you have them pay for it first they will charge you 14%. Amazon.jp is good because you can order in English and pay with a credit-card.

Barry_Green
04-28-2009, 10:51 AM
Thus, 1/60s 60p played at 24 fps should look more film-like than than 1/120s 60p at 24 fps. But I've never done this myself, so I can't say for certain.
Unquestionably incorrect, and easily proven so.

If you want your footage to look like a film camera shot it, you want to use 1/120 shutter on 60fps that's intended to play back at 24fps. That's the speed that will match the exposure (and motion blur) that a film camera would.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 10:58 AM
Kholi, how'd you swing the import? Did you have someone you know in Japan mail it?

I was actually SUPPOSED to be IN Japan at the time of the camera's release on a RED gig shooting a Japanese Pop Star (Yuna Ito) but a series of unfortunate events grounded me in the US.

Some of my friends/Co-workers were still there visiting family and I asked if they could shuttle to a camera store for me. They were nice enough to do so and brought it back on the plane the next day.

Norbert
04-28-2009, 10:58 AM
Okay, I have to things for Kholi that might be worth testing.

1. Compare MJPEG footage to AVCHD footage. How well does MJPEG hold up?
2. Will it even record MJPEG at 60p?

I want to know because I have no means of editing AVCHD footage.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:00 AM
After playing with it at NAB, I made two decisions:
1) I will get one of these
2) I will do a book and maybe a DVD on this.

This thing is going to be huge. I'm very encouraged by Kholi's experimentation.


It's going to be very huge. I have a lot of thoughts that Id like to share but not until I actually give up some well composed visual images. But Barry's definitely right, if not understating the impact the GH-1 is going to have on this niche once it hits stateside.

D90 and MKii were just scratching the surface, and honestly the Gh-1 is still JUST the beginning of the end.

Ian-T
04-28-2009, 11:01 AM
Okay, I have to things for Kholi that might be worth testing.

1. How does MJPEG hold up to AVCHD from this thing?
2. Will it even record MJPEG at 60p?

I want to know because I have no means of editing AVCHD footage.
The specs state that it does record 720/60p in MJPEG codec.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:01 AM
Okay, I have to things for Kholi that might be worth testing.

1. How does MJPEG hold up to AVCHD from this thing?
2. Will it even record MJPEG at 60p?

I want to know because I have no means of editing AVCHD footage.

2. Does record MJPEG 60P (looks like it)
1. No contest. The blocky compression of MJPEG is very unpleasant to me. Your mileage may vary.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:02 AM
Picked up a 4GB Sandisk Extreme III 30mb/s card today.

A blank card's time limit seems to be 31minutes and So-and-So Seconds.

So every 4Gb you get 30 minutes of 1080/24p 17mbps AVC-HD it looks like. Not bad for 50 bucks.

I don't know just yet if there's a recording time limit, I'll have to let it run for a while to see. Coming soon.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:11 AM
Camera's rolling right now, testing the time limit with the LCD active. Just going to let it roll on out until it stops.

Humanoid Typhoon
04-28-2009, 11:14 AM
I was actually SUPPOSED to be IN Japan at the time of the camera's release on a RED gig shooting a Japanese Pop Star (Yuna Ito) but a series of unfortunate events grounded me in the US.


Haha...she was a friend's classmate here in Hawaii. Beautiful girl btw.


I'm glad you're testing recording times. My question to you was going to be if it had a limit like the 5d mk2 does.

Tempted to sell my 35mm adapter..........

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:16 AM
Haha...she was a friend's classmate here in Hawaii. Beautiful girl btw.


I'm glad you're testing recording times. My question to you was going to be if it had a limit like the 5d mk2 does.

Tempted to sell my 35mm adapter..........

I wish I had been there. Everyone's bragging about the fun time they had NOT WORKING lol. And of course all the females.

6 minute Mark Surpassed and STILL rolling. waving the camera around, no signs of image degradation so far but I'll have to look at it on a larger screen. Thank goodness for Fast forward

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:17 AM
7 minute Mark Surpassed. Camera AND the LCD is cool to touch. Switching Shutter and Aperture while recording is a breeze, did I mention that?

SonicStates
04-28-2009, 11:19 AM
drool....keep it coming...
eyes barely open....must wait for Kho...zzzzzzzzz

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-28-2009, 11:20 AM
Picked up a 4GB Sandisk Extreme III 30mb/s card today. ... Not bad for 50 bucks. ...

Many thanks, Kholi. We owe you many beverages of your choosing some day!

I recently purchased a Kingston 8GB SDHC Class 6 memory card from Amazon.com to use when we test Hunter's GH1 soon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OF6V7M

I won't know for sure until we try it if this card is appropriate for use with the GH1, especially its full-HD 1080p24 AVCHD recording mode. So at this point this is just an FYI, not a recommendation.

- Peter
www.peterdv.com

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:21 AM
It's safe to say that the GH-1 surpasses the D90 and MKii on recording time limits.

No overheating, LCD to my face, back of my hands, I look insane rubbing the camera all over myself trying to find signs of overheating but it's not happening.

11minutes surpassed. 25 left on the counter at the bottom of the screen.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:22 AM
Many thanks, Kholi. We owe you many beverages of your choosing some day!

I recently purchased a Kingston 8GB SDHC Class 6 memory card from Amazon.com to use when we test Hunter's GH1 soon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OF6V7M

I won't know for sure until we try it if this card is appropriate for use with the GH1, especially its full-HD 1080p24 AVCHD recording mode. So at this point this is just an FYI, not a recommendation.

- Peter
www.peterdv.com (http://www.peterdv.com)

Ginger Ale, Lemonade, Orange Juice and Donuts.

This card I bought seems to be doing the trick. I want to try some other ones out as well. Between the Kingston and the Sandisk I think we can safely say we've at least got cards that'll work even when 24mb/s drops.


12 Minutes and 15 Seconds rolling.

Note, by now the D90's battery would be halfway gone or worse. I've been on a fully charged battery since I woke up and just now lost one bar. Sick

Jay Birch
04-28-2009, 11:24 AM
just to let you know.... the 5DII records upto 4gb per video, not a set time limit.

SonicStates
04-28-2009, 11:24 AM
By the way Kholi, if you ever get another chance to work with Yuna, she is is mighty fine (like I'm sure you know already)....and I'm loving the recording time

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:27 AM
just to let you know.... the 5DII records upto 4gb per video, not a set time limit.

Oh okay. I thought it had a time limit on it. So I should have bought an 8GB and tested it huh? Back to Best Buy.

17 Minutes passed.

Sonic -- Yeah thanks for rubbin' it in my face. LoL. But I gots someone to stare at night and day so I'm not hung up on it.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-28-2009, 11:28 AM
The Nikon D5000 reportedly has a 5-min. record time limit per clip.

GH1 is look'n good in this dept.!

Humanoid Typhoon
04-28-2009, 11:28 AM
just to let you know.... the 5DII records upto 4gb per video, not a set time limit.

Doesn't that equal to about 12 minutes of recording time...which would be a time limit?

SonicStates
04-28-2009, 11:29 AM
sonic -- yeah thanks for rubbin' it in my face. Lol. But i gots someone to stare at night and day so i'm not hung up on it.
:d

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:30 AM
Peter, you and Hunter'll have to roll out an 8GB SDHC card to see if it's a 4GB Fat Limitation or not. For me, PERSONALLY I don't do enough work that requires 60 minutes of straight recording but others might so it's quite valid.

Please report back, well if I dont' cave and grab an 8GB extreme tonight or something.

20 Minutes Surpassed. Time flies when you've got new toys.

Humanoid Typhoon
04-28-2009, 11:30 AM
Oh okay. I thought it had a time limit on it. So I should have bought an 8GB and tested it huh? Back to Best Buy.

17 Minutes passed.

Sonic -- Yeah thanks for rubbin' it in my face. LoL. But I gots someone to stare at night and day so I'm not hung up on it.

I just told a friend of mine with a HUGE crush on her and he's jealous...haha. Her Dad teaches and it was funny when all of the kids would ask him to hook them up with her, lol.


Recording times look good! With a wireless mic and all the manual controls this bad boy has, I can see it as a great wedding cam :). I'm already fighting with AVCHD with my HMC150 so what's another AVCHD cam? hehe

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-28-2009, 11:37 AM
... 20 Minutes Surpassed. ...

Kholi: Just a double-check: Your doing this maximum clip length test with the GH1 in its 1080p24 AVCHD mode, correct?

Rakesh Jacob
04-28-2009, 11:38 AM
I recently purchased a Kingston 8GB SDHC Class 6 memory card from Amazon.com to use when we test Hunter's GH1 soon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OF6V7M

I won't know for sure until we try it if this card is appropriate for use with the GH1, especially its full-HD 1080p24 AVCHD recording mode. So at this point this is just an FYI, not a recommendation.

- Peter
www.peterdv.com

Should be fine for AVCHD @17mb/s
I used 8+16GB class 6 cards from Patriot and Kingston (dirt cheep at Fry's and probably Amazon and Newegg too) in my HF100 for a ton of stuff without any hitches.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:41 AM
Peter -- Yeh. maximum recording mode with Sound Recording as well. I forgot the mics were on. Even better!!!

Humanoid -- This is my first AVCHD cam. I think the bitrate needs to be bumped just because of what I'm used to but for 17mbps this is pretty nice when viewed on a large HD LCD or production monitor.

Johnny Cola -- Is probably right. Listen to that man.


Something is off all of a sudden....

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-28-2009, 11:41 AM
At some point somebody's gotta test if l-o-n-g GH1 recordings have any unlocked audio-type issues (sound synch slip) ... remember, like in the bad old days of early DV? (Shudder.)

I'm not looking forward to doing that particular test myself ... :happy:

- Peter
www.peterdv.com

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:43 AM
I said earleir that the card looked to have a 30 minute limit...

But I forgot that the D90 says 5 minutes but it's just because it reads at 5 minute lengths.

32 Minutes Surpassed, 14 minutes left on the counter.

Camera is just now beginning to pick up very light signs of warmth. Battery life is still just one bar down.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-28-2009, 11:51 AM
Should be fine for AVCHD @17mb/s
I used 8+16GB class 6 cards from Patriot and Kingston (dirt cheep at Fry's and probably Amazon and Newegg too) in my HF100 for a ton of stuff without any hitches.

Thanks, JC, good to know. Interestingly, Fry's up here in Portland has higher prices on SDHC cards compared to Amazon.com. The 8GB card I got from Amazon was only $20, which seems relatively low for a name-brand card.

I'm hoping SDHC cards continue their fast price decline. My magic number is $2 for 60-min. worth of "quality" HD video on name-brand media -- similar to current miniDV tape pricing. My guess is we'll get there within about a year (possibly wishful thinking on my part).

- Peter
www.peterdv.com (http://www.peterdv.com)

Kholi
04-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Peter it looks like the 4GB card I've got may deliver 50+ Minutes of the FHD (AVCHD 24P 17mbps) on this camera.

I'm at 42Minutes and the Counter is still reading 10 Minutes.

Unless when I stop recording it suddenly writes all that to the card? But that doesn't make sense at all.

hish
04-28-2009, 12:08 PM
Peter it looks like the 4GB card I've got may deliver 50+ Minutes of the FHD (AVCHD 24P 17mbps) on this camera.

I'm at 42Minutes and the Counter is still reading 10 Minutes.

Unless when I stop recording it suddenly writes all that to the card? But that doesn't make sense at all.

Isn't it a variable bitrate? So if the camera is stationary, it should be lower?
Could be wrong though.

Barry_Green
04-28-2009, 12:10 PM
Seems to me that either you've got an 8GB card in there by accident, or you're somehow recording in 9mbps mode instead of 17...

Rakesh Jacob
04-28-2009, 12:12 PM
Peter it looks like the 4GB card I've got may deliver 50+ Minutes of the FHD (AVCHD 24P 17mbps) on this camera.

I'm at 42Minutes and the Counter is still reading 10 Minutes.

Unless when I stop recording it suddenly writes all that to the card? But that doesn't make sense at all.

OK..... Kholi you are now entering the TwilightZone, recording @17mbps should have stopped a while back
do do do do do do do do

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:13 PM
RECORDING TIME -- Sandisk 4gb Extreme III 30mb/s SDHC Card records 62 Minutes of Full 1080/24P 17mbps Video and Audio ... non stop. Camera's just BARELY lukewarm to the touch. Fully Operational. Started this test on two battery bars left and still have one left over.

How is this possible?Anyone know what's going on? Theories?

Image Degradation will be tested by others I'm sure. I personally dont have the time right now but can't wait to see what others find out.

Michael Olsen
04-28-2009, 12:15 PM
Must be the variable bit rate using a very small amount of data for a relatively static image...?

mrmoe
04-28-2009, 12:17 PM
Congrats Kholi & Philip Bloom on your new GH1, A new Chapter in HDSLR begins.

Phillip Bloom Showing off his new GH1

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/panasonic-lumix-gh1/234223-philip-bloom-gets-his-mitts-gh1-austin-tx.html





Cheers

Barry_Green
04-28-2009, 12:19 PM
According to the tech specs, there's SH mode (17mbps), H mode (13mbps) and L mode (9mbps). Make sure you're in SH mode. If you've been testing everything (and been happy) with L mode, then you'll probably be squealing in delight with SH mode!

Pirata
04-28-2009, 12:19 PM
Congrats Kholi & Philip Bloom on your new GH1, A new Chapter in HDSLR begins.

Phillip Bloom Showing off his new GH1


http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/panasonic-lumix-gh1/234223-philip-bloom-gets-his-mitts-gh1-austin-tx.html




Cheers

and of course it's a Red color GH1 :)

Barry_Green
04-28-2009, 12:21 PM
Hey Kholi, I took another look at that clip you sent me. Guess what -- it's 9 megabits.

Heh.

Crank that bad boy up to 17 and start your testing all over! :)

Barry_Green
04-28-2009, 12:22 PM
Must be the variable bit rate using a very small amount of data for a relatively static image...?
No, Kholi sent me a clip that varies from about 6mbps to 12mbps, averaging 9. I think he's just got the camera set on 9mbps mode.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:23 PM
According to the tech specs, there's SH mode (17mbps), H mode (13mbps) and L mode (9mbps). Make sure you're in SH mode. If you've been testing everything (and been happy) with L mode, then you'll probably be squealing in delight with SH mode!

On My camera it reads:

FHD
SH
H
L

it's in FHD. I hope I've been testing everything in the wrong mode?

BLUESPIDER
04-28-2009, 12:28 PM
On My camera it reads:

FHD
SH
H
L

it's in FHD. I hope I've been testing everything in the wrong mode?


Noob!


Everything sounds and looks promising. I got my D90 a while back and was going to sell it but I think I'm going to keep it for stills. thanks for keeping us posted Kholi.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-28-2009, 12:29 PM
Congrats Kholi & Philip Bloom on your new GH1, A new Chapter in HDSLR begins.

Phillip Bloom Showing off his new GH1

Cheers

Can you confirm if Philip's GH1 has on-screen menus in English?

Thanks,

- Peter
www.peterdv.com

philip bloom
04-28-2009, 12:29 PM
mine is on charge now...be shooting with it later...

LOVE the red colour. I asked if I could get red..little mic is cool too...

RaviSun3D
04-28-2009, 12:31 PM
RECORDING TIME -- Sandisk 4gb Extreme III 30mb/s SDHC Card records 62 Minutes of Full 1080/24P 17mbps Video and Audio ... non stop. Camera's just BARELY lukewarm to the touch. Fully Operational. Started this test on two battery bars left and still have one left over.

How is this possible?Anyone know what's going on? Theories?

Image Degradation will be tested by others I'm sure. I personally dont have the time right now but can't wait to see what others find out.

Theorotically its correct....
Generally 25Mbps makes nearly 13GB/Hr File.
19Mbps (which is 720p HDV) makes nearly 7-8GB/Hr File.

Now it is 17Mbps, little less than Hour in 4GB is very close to make sense.

Anyways that could not go more then that in 8GB (or more) card.
Because FAT limitation is there. This doesn't mean its a limitation of camera.
Its just a FAT File system limitation of 4GB per File.

And as per as I know there is no card in development in NTSC file system.

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:32 PM
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/pressroom/pdfs/Panasonic_LUMIX_DMC-GH1_Spec_Sheet.pdf

FHD = 1080/24P 17mbps. That's what it's been on.

I've got to have this thing crippled in the settings or something if it's only 9mbps.

Arrik
04-28-2009, 12:32 PM
sooooo.... which is it, FHD or SH? I mean it makes sense that FHD would be the highest but... who knows.

Barry_Green
04-28-2009, 12:34 PM
Try SH mode. See if it gives you shorter recording times.

Buck Forester
04-28-2009, 12:35 PM
This camera sounds cool.

Question... does it have the capability to shoot pretty girls?

Arrik
04-28-2009, 12:36 PM
mine is on charge now...be shooting with it later...

LOVE the red colour. I asked if I could get red..little mic is cool too...

The red one looks pretty cool. Though, I'd probably be tired of it in a week and regret not getting black later.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-28-2009, 12:37 PM
According to the tech specs, there's SH mode (17mbps), H mode (13mbps) and L mode (9mbps). Make sure you're in SH mode. If you've been testing everything (and been happy) with L mode, then you'll probably be squealing in delight with SH mode!

Interesting. Panasonic's docs agree/disagree?
http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh1/specifications.html
http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/popup/sd_memory_card/gh1.html

According to those links, the GH1's "FHD" recording mode should be "1080p24 AVCHD @ 17 megabits/sec VBR". I think ...

Kholi
04-28-2009, 12:39 PM
Try SH mode. See if it gives you shorter recording times.

tried it. Looks like shorter recording times @ 720/60P. the LCD flips over to 720/60P as well, that's another way I know it's 60P.

FHD is 1080/24 for sure.