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View Full Version : GH1 has disappointing dynamic range / latitude



Solomon Chase
04-26-2009, 02:57 PM
In most of the clips I've seen, the dynamic range looks bad, with clipped highlights and crushed blacks. This is especially apparent in night footage. The D90 has a much smoother highlight roll-off, and more apparent latitude.

Any word on custom curves or presets that may be able to fix or alleviate this? I'm afraid it may just be a property of the sensor design. :(

Hunter Hampton
04-26-2009, 03:20 PM
I think your jumping the gun here, look at the pictures attached from GH1 footage. One is with out adjustments and on the other I lifted the blacks to see what was there, The problem looks to be that either the camera is set-up with the contrast too high (which can be dialed down) or you need to lift the blacks and lower the whites in post. Whatever the case is, we will all know shortly.

FYI the old G1 had about 5-6 stops under to black and 3 over to white, so about 8.5 usable stops, this is a new sensor with lower noise so it may be more than that- Not too bad considering the usable dynamic range on the Red is about 9.5 stops.

Kholi
04-26-2009, 03:39 PM
Pointless thread number two. I thought I was going to be linked to an actual article from an actual person tyt actually had a camera and could actually affirm poor dynamic range performance.

It was actually another DavidNJ thread instead.

Is it that hard to wait until two Dvxusers get their hands on one?

Zak Forsman
04-26-2009, 03:41 PM
yes. it's hard.

Solomon Chase
04-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Pointless thread number two. I thought I was going to be linked to an actual article from an actual person tyt actually had a camera and could actually affirm poor dynamic range performance.

It was actually another DavidNJ thread instead.

Is it that hard to wait until two Dvxusers get their hands on one?

Yes. Much too hard.

Really, the main reason I brought it up in a separate thread... it's a major deal-breaker, at least for me. Was hoping to corroborate info on the image presets and footage so far. (sorry that the thread title sounds like a conclusive statement, I'd edit it if I could)

From hunter's post, it looks like the latitude may be there, just pushed around by a contrasty response curve.

Hunter Hampton
04-26-2009, 03:50 PM
Another GH1 example...

As you can see the blacks just appear to be crushed, there is quite a bit there. The first thing Im going to do with my GH1 is set the contrast level as low as it can go.

Hunter Hampton
04-26-2009, 03:51 PM
I know your itching for a GH1 Zak! ; )

Kholi
04-26-2009, 03:55 PM
first thing is to set eveything to zero and work up.

Indoors at every ISO. Outdoors at every ISo.

Ten bucks says outdoors at 640 ISO produces incredible highs retention with very low s/n ratios!

Solomon Chase
04-26-2009, 03:58 PM
Another GH1 example...

As you can see the blacks just appear to be crushed, there is quite a bit there. The first thing Im going to do with my GH1 is set the contrast level as low as it can go.

Wow. that's a pretty big difference.

I hope you can set the contrast lower in-camera. The problem with doing it in post like you did is the compression schemes tend to turn darker areas into pixely mush, that shows even more once you lift the shadows. :(

Hunter Hampton
04-26-2009, 04:00 PM
I didnt lift it to make it look good, I just lifted it to show you there was a lot of info there.

John Caballero
04-26-2009, 04:14 PM
According to the features in the GH1 promo material at the Panasonic website there are countless settings to control everything from contrast to sharpnesss, etc., etc. It is absolutely pointless to analyze footage to death from people that basically just took the camera in their hands and just started shooting. And that is the beauty of this, based on this first tests you can see the possibilities if handled properly.

Rakesh Jacob
04-26-2009, 04:14 PM
I must admit I've been really aprehensive looking at the crushed footage on youtube, but I was hopefull that it was just crushed and there would be some settings to aleviate it. Thnx for posting the adjusted footage Hunter.
And Kholi, man I love to see you excited!!!!! I have held up production on my personal projects till I decide between the 5D and GH1, I really hope Kholi and Hunter get some good sh!t out of the GH1, this would be the perfect first gen vDSLR for me.

codeloss
04-26-2009, 04:27 PM
The G1 (and presumably GH1) has an "intelligent exposure" feature that boosts shadow areas before compression. I'm hopeful that this works with video, as it would be a great way of preserving a lot of detail that could be muddied or lost in the compression process. Using this with proper color correction would yield excellent, non-crushed shadow detail.

There's an example of it on the G1 here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcg1/page21.asp

Can't wait till tomorrow...

Solomon Chase
04-26-2009, 04:28 PM
According to the features in the GH1 promo material at the Panasonic website there are countless settings to control everything from contrast to sharpnesss, etc., etc. It is absolutely pointless to analyze footage to death from people that basically just took the camera in their hands and just started shooting. And that is the beauty of this, based on this first tests you can see the possibilities if handled properly.

Agreed. I already checked the promo site, but still had some questions...

What's the earliest to buy one in the US?

Kholi
04-26-2009, 04:36 PM
I must admit I've been really aprehensive looking at the crushed footage on youtube, but I was hopefull that it was just crushed and there would be some settings to aleviate it. Thnx for posting the adjusted footage Hunter.
And Kholi, man I love to see you excited!!!!! I have held up production on my personal projects till I decide between the 5D and GH1, I really hope Kholi and Hunter get some good sh!t out of the GH1, this would be the perfect first gen vDSLR for me.

Absolute understatement. Lol.

Ask Hunter, Isaac, Geoff_R, Weixiang, hell even ask Barry about the creepy PM I sent him. This is THE most exciting camera release EVER. And it's the FUNNEST.

You should read some of Hunter's and mines PMs. Like seven year olds planning to build a Spaceship this summer.

I mean come on, check the hit list:

- AVC-HD 1080/24p, 720/60p, 720/30p, Motion JPEG 720/60p, 720/30p
- Interchangeable Lenses
- Somewhere around RED ONE 4K FOV/DOF
- MANUAL CONTROLS: Aperture and Shutter
- ISO CONTROL: 100 ~ 1600+
- Flip Out and Rotateable LCD
- Auto Functions in Video Mode
- Ability to Adapt nearly ANY LENS to the camera (PL mount is already cookin' over here)
- Light Weight: Under 2lbs for the body alone (whaaat!?!?)
- Early Footage exhibits little Jello effect in comparison to predecessors.

And that's just what I can think of right now.

I was pretty excited about the D90, but I knew before hand it didn't have manual controls so it wouldn't really be my cup of tea. I wanted an MKii but I couldn't justify the expense without manual controls and 24P especially.

Panasonic (of all companies, I wouldn't have EVER thought it) dropped the hot ticket. The footage I'm seeing is promising enough. I consider it the WORSE the camera can perform.

I just can't wait to test all the goodies I started buying for this sucker. I may have went a little overboard.

Solomon Chase
04-26-2009, 04:51 PM
That list makes me smile.

PappasArts
04-26-2009, 04:57 PM
I think your jumping the gun here, look at the pictures attached from GH1 footage. One is with out adjustments and on the other I lifted the blacks to see what was there, The problem looks to be that either the camera is set-up with the contrast too high (which can be dialed down) or you need to lift the blacks and lower the whites in post. Whatever the case is, we will all know shortly.

FYI the old G1 had about 5-6 stops under to black and 3 over to white, so about 8.5 usable stops, this is a new sensor with lower noise so it may be more than that- Not too bad considering the usable dynamic range on the Red is about 9.5 stops.

Sh^t, that's a lot more info. Half that range is considered good, this is even better...

PappasArts
04-26-2009, 05:00 PM
Is the ISO selectable in increments. Like 800 to 1000 to 1200. Or does it jump from 800 to 1600 with no in between?


Absolute understatement. Lol.

- AVC-HD 1080/24p, 720/60p, 720/30p, Motion JPEG 720/60p, 720/30p
- Interchangeable Lenses
- Somewhere around RED ONE 4K FOV/DOF
- MANUAL CONTROLS: Aperture and Shutter
- ISO CONTROL: 100 ~ 1600+
- Flip Out and Rotateable LCD
- Auto Functions in Video Mode
- Ability to Adapt nearly ANY LENS to the camera (PL mount is already cookin' over here)
- Light Weight: Under 2lbs for the body alone (whaaat!?!?)
- Early Footage exhibits little Jello effect in comparison to predecessors.

I just can't wait to test all the goodies I started buying for this sucker. I may have went a little overboard.

Kholi
04-26-2009, 05:20 PM
one video showed 100. Barrys was at 200 or 400. One was at 800 so I assume incremental. I'll tell you for sure tomorrow afternoon.

Solomon Chase
04-26-2009, 05:21 PM
one video showed 100. Barrys was at 200 or 400. One was at 800 so I assume incremental. I'll tell you for sure tomorrow afternoon.
Tommorow?! Did you import from japan?

Kholi
04-26-2009, 05:33 PM
Three of us are getting GH1s between tomorrow and Tuesday. Mines hits la at 2. My palms and right into an hdmi Sony production monitor at 3.

Don't worry. I bought an extra battery so there's no downtime and I only have to look at casting subs for the next few days.

Slumber party at my crib?

Finster
04-26-2009, 05:39 PM
Three? You, Hunter and __________ ???

squig
04-26-2009, 05:40 PM
Are you and hunter gonna be processing your footage in fcp?

Eddy Robinson
04-26-2009, 05:50 PM
Yes. Much too hard.

Really, the main reason I brought it up in a separate thread... it's a major deal-breaker, at least for me.

Then wait until it's available here rather than just in Japan, and we're not dependent on random footage with unknown settings and using Google Translate to interpret the moonspeak.

The issue you raise about the image quality is an important one, for sure. But we all know that what a camera does out of the box is a poor guide to what can be done with it. The first Panasonic Lumix I tried (DMC-LZ7, a few years old now) was disappointing...until I delved into the menus and started setting it up for the kind of picture I wanted to take. Now it's my go-anywhere camera and camcorder, my only complaint being it's insatiable appetite for batteries.

So - wait for a proper test.

Kholi
04-26-2009, 05:51 PM
more than likely. I've got FCP but soon migrating to premiere.

Hunter, myself and whoever Barrys Been talking about.

Eddy Robinson
04-26-2009, 05:59 PM
I'm looking forward to your review Kholi, as well as those of the others - it'll be good to have informed commentary based on the specific needs of DVXuser.com readers.

dadoboy
04-26-2009, 06:02 PM
I didn't think that people could order the cameras direct from Japan - but of course! Very exciting. Can't wait to see your guys work.

I never would have thought in a million years that I could use my Jupiter Kiev lenses to make a movie, which is why I gave them away - yes GAVE them away - to a cute AC who worked for me. Doh! Hang on to your lenses, the GH1 works with almost anything cuz of its flange to focal plane distance!

squig
04-26-2009, 06:03 PM
great cause the fcp/prores/reverse telecine workflow appears to have introduced some artifacts to barry's footage so I'm really hanging to see how it works for you guys.

I can't find any info on the mjpeg bit-rate

it appears my D90 just became obsolete.

dcloud
04-26-2009, 07:17 PM
Pointless thread number two. I thought I was going to be linked to an actual article from an actual person tyt actually had a camera and could actually affirm poor dynamic range performance.

It was actually another DavidNJ thread instead.

Is it that hard to wait until two Dvxusers get their hands on one?
LOL my sentiments exactly

Christopher Barry
04-27-2009, 12:54 AM
- Ability to Adapt nearly ANY LENS to the camera (PL mount is already cookin' over here)

Any further information on that PL mount? Is/will it be commercially availabile?

Thank you.

Hunter Hampton
04-27-2009, 01:17 AM
Just a bit longer and youll see. ; ) PL mount coming next week too.

RaviSun3D
04-27-2009, 01:39 AM
Three of us are getting GH1s between tomorrow and Tuesday. Mines hits la at 2. My palms and right into an hdmi Sony production monitor at 3.

Don't worry. I bought an extra battery so there's no downtime and I only have to look at casting subs for the next few days.

Slumber party at my crib?

Are you going to get a Japanese version of Camera? :Drogar-Thinking(DBG

PappasArts
04-27-2009, 01:46 AM
Three of us are getting GH1s between tomorrow and Tuesday. Mines hits la at 2. My palms and right into an hdmi Sony production monitor at 3.

Don't worry. I bought an extra battery so there's no downtime and I only have to look at casting subs for the next few days.

Slumber party at my crib?


Wow, I had no idea you guys were getting them this week. Must feel like Christmas in April.

""Slumber party "" I 'll bring the Pizza & Beer.......... :-)

Seriously a lot of us are in the LA to Orange County area should get together at a local place to talk shop at see these cameras.






.Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }

Christopher Barry
04-27-2009, 03:32 AM
Just a bit longer and youll see. ; ) PL mount coming next week too.

PL cool. OCT-19 next...

DavidNJ
04-27-2009, 05:05 AM
It sounds like all the answers are only a few days away...PL mount? 16mm lenses?

kubalsky
04-27-2009, 05:54 AM
Three of us are getting GH1s between tomorrow and Tuesday. Mines hits la at 2. My palms and right into an hdmi Sony production monitor at 3.

Don't worry. I bought an extra battery so there's no downtime and I only have to look at casting subs for the next few days.

Slumber party at my crib?

Better brush up on your Japanese reading skills before then. There is no English options in the menu.

Rakesh Jacob
04-27-2009, 06:10 AM
Better brush up on your Japanese reading skills before then. There is no English options in the menu.

He and about everyone else here is aware of that, also he has a friend that reads Japanese that's gonna help out :Drogar-Happy(DBG):

John Caballero
04-27-2009, 06:27 AM
I think he also ordered the Japanese Rosseta Stone course....

kubalsky
04-27-2009, 07:35 AM
I think he also ordered the Japanese Rosseta Stone course....

Could also be a good time to start dating any Japanese girls in the neighbourhood.

Kholi
04-27-2009, 07:44 AM
hunters got a commercial pl coming. Mines is personal. Should be done next week as well.

Pappas I'll be at the beach and in he mountains this coming wekend.

Barring the weather is warm.

Headed to shoot right now. Top bad the gh1 isn't hear yet.

jedbarish
04-27-2009, 09:41 AM
Since GH1 is recording in AVCHD/H.264 so will it requires us to convert the files to use on FCP? I was hoping to avoid the conversion to speed up the process. I am aware of Premiere Pro but it could not really handle AVCHD footage very well.

divide
04-27-2009, 09:50 AM
See comment #787 here ;)
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=163339&page=79

Barry_Green
04-27-2009, 10:14 AM
Since GH1 is recording in AVCHD/H.264 so will it requires us to convert the files to use on FCP? I was hoping to avoid the conversion to speed up the process. I am aware of Premiere Pro but it could not really handle AVCHD footage very well.
That's an FCP issue, as FCP is the one requiring the conversion; no other editor does, that I can think of.

Premiere Pro CS4.1 has all new presets for AVCHD 720p so it should be greatly improved over CS4. At least, I'm hoping so. Update should be out in a month.

Christopher Barry
04-27-2009, 02:53 PM
hunters got a commercial pl coming.

Thanks, Kholi. Pest ya later, hunter.