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DavidNJ
04-25-2009, 03:51 PM
The $64k question, or half of it...the other half being what is output.

Does anyone know?

Kholi
04-25-2009, 03:57 PM
I think if anyone knew it'd be posted already. Nobody on the other side of the world even cares, more than likely. It's a question that may not get answered until monday.

David, what's the best way to tell if the output is Live and at what size? I thought HDMI could be 720 or 1080. Please inform me so I know what to do the second I unbox the camera.

DavidNJ
04-25-2009, 05:32 PM
Just plug the HDMI into a TV. If you get a crisp full size 1080p/i image...it does. The second question is just a bit (small bit) harder. Connect the HDMI cable to a Blackmagic Design Intensity card, a Matrix MXO2 or mini MXO2, or maybe a nanoFlash XDR, and record. Take the result, do a frame capture and dive into the detail. Does it resolve to one pixel or three (I haven't seen any fully resolved detail less than 3 pixels across in the sample footage). Then we will know if it outputs before it processes that last smoothing.

The 5DM2 outputs a low resolution live view shot.

No sure about the D90; I suspect it may output a full 720p or 1080i stream with the live view image on it at full resolution. If so, it may be possible to extract a 720p stream from it without the camera settings on it. Not sure though.

The Sanyo FH1, a little $450 camera that exhibits similar smoothing to the GH-1, outputs full HDMI and lets the camera settings be turned off the screen. Unfortunately, it turns off its own LCD at the same time, requiring another monitor. It also turns off the HDMI when recording. If Panasonic used the same chip technology it may display similar behavior.

Illya Friedman
04-25-2009, 06:20 PM
Plugging the HDMI cable into the camera gives you playback/slideshow of clips on the card. There may be a way to get live out, but I couldn't figure it out in the time available without the manual.

I.

Hot Rod Cameras

Steve Castle
04-26-2009, 09:46 PM
Plugging the HDMI cable into the camera gives you playback/slideshow of clips on the card. There may be a way to get live out, but I couldn't figure it out in the time available without the manual.

I.

Hot Rod Cameras

According to this blog the GH1 won't have a live output from HDMI while recording. Not sure about their credibility, so take it with a grain of salt, but HDMI seems to be reserved for playback of files on the card according to them.

http://www.macotakara.jp/blog/tb.php?ID=2978


なお、LUMIX DMC-GH1にも HDMI端子は付いていますが、HDMIから出力出来るのは「撮影済みのデータのみ」ということで、キヤノ ンのように撮影中にも撮影している映像・画像が出力される仕様にはなっていません

DavidNJ
04-26-2009, 09:58 PM
Well beyond my level of Japanese.

Kholi
04-26-2009, 09:59 PM
Pre-Prod model, though. I don't think that's what it meant but it might be a good idea to check Panasonic's website.

DavidNJ
04-26-2009, 10:08 PM
I think this is more complicated than just HDMI now anyway. It will probably have to be decided when some one here gets one and can try it out fully and examine the output.

Steve Castle
04-26-2009, 10:29 PM
I hope they're wrong, but its a quote from PIE2009 a month ago. The translation is, "While the GH1 does have HDMI, it will only playback recorded data, unlike Canon HDMI cannot output video while recording." I have a fairly good working knowledge of Japanese, and I've scoured their site and the manual but there isn't any mention of live output from HDMI.

As David has said, we shouldn't rush to conclusions until someone here has tested it out.

Park Edwards
04-27-2009, 12:32 AM
Doesn't mean someone can't "hack" the Gh1 like they did with the DVX to record uncompressed HDMI out.... IE Andromeda.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-27-2009, 01:05 AM
As much as I wish it weren't so, my guess is no, the GH1 will _not_ have "live" full-time HDMI uncompressed HD video out. In fact it might not have _any kind_ of live full-time video out, not even live SD video.

Here's why:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1619979&postcount=769

I really hope I'm wrong, but my guess is I'm not. We'll know for sure in a few hours ... :shocked:

Note: I'd seriously consider buying a GH1 even if it doesn't have live video out, mostly because it has an unusually hi-res 1.44MP viewfinder -- plus the cam's many, many other useful & valuable features.

- Peter
www.peterdv.com

RaviSun3D
04-27-2009, 01:27 AM
As much as I really, really, _really_ hope the GH1's HDMI port supports live full-time uncompressed HD video out, based on everything I've read, there's unfortunately probably less than a 50% chance it'll be able to do this. Maybe even less than a 25% chance. :embarasse

Why not: Unless the GH1's new, relatively large Live MOS sensor and Venus Engine HD dual-core processor are _unusually_ powerful, cool-running & energy efficient, it seems unlikely they can capture ~12MP motion video _and_ compress it down to 17 megabits/sec 1920x1080 AVCHD or M-JPEG HD video _and_ support the cam's live view viewfinder & LCD _and_ write the data out to a SDHC card _and_ support the GH1's hundreds of other functions ... _and_ output live full-res HD out its HDMI port -- all at the same time.

Actually, it's possible (after all, anything's possible, right?) the components in the GH1 _could_ do all that, except: Given the cam's small size and available electrical power supply, the GH1's design as it exists today almost certainly can't allow enough heat management to cope with such a heavy workload. If the GH1 was physically bigger & had enough electrical power available to run an on-board liquid cooling system, then it might be able do all of the above all at once. Other cams which feature full-time live full-res uncompressed HDMI outputs are either much bigger devices, or have much smaller image sensors, or have fewer/different features/specs, or cost significantly more -- or some combination of these.

Also why not: The GH1's public documentation doesn't seem to indicate the cam supports live full-time HDMI output. Playback, playback, playback is all it seems to say.

Further also why not: To the best of my knowledge none of the people who've bought or laid hands on a Japanese market GH1 have conclusively confirmed it, unfortunately.

Further further why not: Politics. Do you really think Panasonic wants to sell a ~$1,500 cam which sports a feature list which rivals (and in some cases surpasses) its more expensive products? It's not Panasonic's fault, it's just business.

Looks like, the 'HDMI Thing' in GH1 is not a complex thing to get figured out (at least, logically).

But I experienced the same problem for Sony FX1000 HDV Camera. It was very hard to figure out the HDMI condition of Camera.

This camera has CMOS that grabs picture in full 1080p but camera records it in HDV (which is 1080i(1080x1440)). Even this deosn't explain about the HDMI condition (output:is it before or after the compression?). There is no indication of Uncompressed Output through HDMI in it's Specifications or any of it's Reviews,

and guess what! .............not even in Manual. :undecided No-where on the Web.

It is the same thing everywhere, "High-quality video Playback on HDTV"....!:Drogar-Sick(DBG):!?.
"Monitor live video in 1080p"......and so on...

After a week of search on the web, I had a LiveChat with B&H product Professional. Even he was lil'bit confused about this. Seemed He was trying to figure out from the documents he had. At last after 8-10mins of chating, he confirmed that it has uncompressed(4:2:2) live output in 1080i. (what?... not 1080p..?)

The term '1080i' he used, means 1920x1080 interlaced (not HDV).
This means we can output 1080p after editing anyways. Now this was enough for me that time.

Well, didn't know that I have to get back on this issue again for (a so called) DSLR. Now looks like there is no hope at all. :embarasse

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-27-2009, 02:16 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the GH1 is actually "capable" of full-time live HDMI uncompressed HD video out, except that this capability has been "switched off" by default in its firmware.

However, if true (and everything I've said about this topic is just a guess), that doesn't mean at some point you could update/change the GH1's firmware and magically get _quality_ full-time live HDMI uncompressed HD video out.

It wouldn't be unheard of for a video cam manufacturer to design-in a feature (such as full-time live HDMI uncompressed HD video output) which they only intend to be used at the factory for brief, quality control testing purposes or likewise in a factory authorized service center's repair shop for brief repair/alignment/testing sessions.

But I could easily imagine this capability -- if it exists -- might not be intended for multiple minutes, let alone hours, of operation without resulting in image-degrading heat build-up in a cam with the form factor of the GH1.

In other words, Panasonic might have a good reason to "cripple" the GH1 in this particular sense. At the price point the GH1 is designed to sell for, designed & constructed with the available components within it, and given its size, shape & power supply, it might not have been possible to enable this particular feature by default w/o giving up something else of value; namely continuous high quality low-noise HD video over long durations.

I've seen stranger things done in electronic product designs, and often they were done for very reasonable reasons -- no matter how crazy they seem.

Given a choice between a video cam with full-time live video out but sucky everything else, and a video cam with a very hi-res viewfinder and mostly really great everything else, I'll take the latter combination any day. Just my personal pref.

In any event, "Xmas in April" starts later today!

I think the GH1 has the potential to be the best thing to hit the video production biz since the first true prosumer miniDV cams were introduced, only now the revolution is in HD.

- Peter
www.peterdv.com

SonicStates
04-27-2009, 08:15 AM
Had a few minutes with the Japanese manual and it doesn't talk about live out...just playback on TV. Didn't spend nearly enough time with it though but judging by the reports we've heard so far doesn't look good. Can appreciate the intentional crippling comment above. All in all though, that would be the icing on top of...well... the icing. Looks like a pretty versatile little setup.

Greg_E
03-10-2017, 12:30 PM
Resurrecting this since I recently got a GH1 as part of a lot of gear... Did anyone ever get the HDMI out to work in live mode either during "preview" or during recording? The answer appears to be no, but thought it was worth asking to see if I'm doing something wrong. Not that important, but just messing with this camera to see what I can make it do before I decide if it gets sold or kept. Also owning 2 GH2, this one is probably going to be sold once I'm done playing.

kbeezie
07-07-2017, 05:43 PM
Resurrecting this since I recently got a GH1 as part of a lot of gear... Did anyone ever get the HDMI out to work in live mode either during "preview" or during recording? The answer appears to be no, but thought it was worth asking to see if I'm doing something wrong. Not that important, but just messing with this camera to see what I can make it do before I decide if it gets sold or kept. Also owning 2 GH2, this one is probably going to be sold once I'm done playing.

Nope. I wish as well. But nope.