Will P2 ever be able to handle 4:4:4?

[BradFu]

Got into a discussion yesterday with the camera shader. I'm sold on P2, and Panny products, he was bashing P2, saying if Panny didn't unveil something new at NAB that is a step forward for P2 and 4:4:4 capability, then he's going with Sony and the SxS cards. Preferences and opinions aside, I didn't quite have a comeback for him.

What do you think?

[Alex.Mitchell]

What? So he's going to move from AVC Intra, a full raster, 100MB, 10-bit, 4:2:2 codec to a system that only records a 35MB-VBR, 8 bit, 4:2:0 codec? And he's doing it because he wants a 4:4:4 codec?

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Its called AVC-Ultra... 4:4:4 12bit RGB...

wowwwww......

[mcgeedigital]

its called avc-ultra... 4:4:4 12bit rgb...

Wowwwww......

and 2k.

[mcgeedigital]

What? So he's going to move from AVC Intra, a full raster, 100MB, 10-bit, 4:2:2 codec to a system that only records a 35MB-VBR, 8 bit, 4:2:0 codec? And he's doing it because he wants a 4:4:4 codec?

Yeah someone wasn't exactly using logic there.

[BradFu]

I'll be the first to admit that my tech knowledge wasn't up to snuff to put any sort of smackdown in place. He was leaning towards Sony because of switchable lenses, etc., but still didn't quite "get" P2. Then it was time to shoot, so I just let it go and got to work.

[ecking]

If he wants to go sony, then fine that's alright, but going that way because of format should not be one of his reasons.

[David Jimerson]

Besides, it's not a question of P2 being able to "handle" 4:4:4. A P2 card will accept any data you want to put on it, of any kind.

But yeah, the idea of switching over to Sony/SxS over color sampling is . . . amusing. :)

[puredrifting]

I love it when people buy expensive gear based upon flawed logic and lack of research on their part.

I have a talented DP who I used to work with who told me that he will never buy or use P2 because "the static electricity from carrying spare change in your pocket can erase P2 cards if they are carried in your pocket. I know, it happened on a shoot I was on".

What can you say to brilliant logic like that?

Dan

[jrmiller_entertainment]

What can you say to brilliant logic like that?

one of my favorite mitch hedberg quotes sums up these kind of scenarios.

My friend said to me, "I think the weather's trippy." I said, "No, man, it's not the weather that's trippy, perhaps it is the way that we perceive it that is indeed trippy." Then I thought, "Man, I should've just said, 'Yeah.'"

[soarprod]

At least that was the excuse by the p2 loader for why the footage was lost.

I love it when people buy expensive gear based upon flawed logic and lack of research on their part.

I have a talented DP who I used to work with who told me that he will never buy or use P2 because "the static electricity from carrying spare change in your pocket can erase P2 cards if they are carried in your pocket. I know, it happened on a shoot I was on".

What can you say to brilliant logic like that?

Dan

[David Jimerson]

I have a talented DP who I used to work with who told me that he will never buy or use P2 because "the static electricity from carrying spare change in your pocket can erase P2 cards if they are carried in your pocket. I know, it happened on a shoot I was on".

Funny how that's an exact Sony anti-P2 pitch.

Should have asked him to build up a static charge with some change right there.

[puredrifting]

I recall telling him that if you are carrying around bare P2 cards in your pocket, you aren't the brightest bulb in the pack anyway.

Was this the Sony NAB 2007 "defamation of character" pitch against P2? Ask Barry about that one ;-)

Dan

[David Jimerson]

Yeah, it was. I was in the Panny booth that year, too, and we had all kinds of fun with it when people would come over and tell that story. At times, I kept one in my pocket with a bunch of loose change, and when someone asked, I reached in, rattled around the change, pulled out the card, and said "like this one"?

We were throwing the cards around, rubbing them on the carpet under our shoes, whacking them against the counter, all sorts of wild stuff.

I guess Sony would be happy to know its propaganda got out at least a little bit.

[mcgeedigital]

This the same Sony that poo-poo'd P2 because it was tapeless.....


Then came out and introduced SxS.

[Buck Forester]

I recall telling him that if you are carrying around bare P2 cards in your pocket, you aren't the brightest bulb in the pack anyway.




At times, I kept one in my pocket with a bunch of loose change, and when someone asked, I reached in, rattled around the change, pulled out the card, and said "like this one"?



Ha! :laugh:

[Buck Forester]

For the record, it seems just a few weeks ago Panasonic was slamming Sony in every way it could for use of CMOS in their "professional" broadcast line of gear, ... and (drumroll) they came out with a broadcast line with (drumroll) 3MOS! Funny how all that stuff works. Whew baby!

[mcgeedigital]

True, true.

[Knoxworth]

Yeah, it was. I was in the Panny booth that year, too, and we had all kinds of fun with it when people would come over and tell that story. At times, I kept one in my pocket with a bunch of loose change, and when someone asked, I reached in, rattled around the change, pulled out the card, and said "like this one"?

We were throwing the cards around, rubbing them on the carpet under our shoes, whacking them against the counter, all sorts of wild stuff.

I guess Sony would be happy to know its propaganda got out at least a little bit.

I would enjoy seeing a Tesla coil demonstration. "Loose change? How about one of THESE puppies?"

[Carlos Corral]

Its called AVC-Ultra... 4:4:4 12bit RGB...

wowwwww......

Which reminds me, I wanted to bring this up. Has anyone seen that 3D camera from Panasonic? That camera looks an HPX170 with a 3D lens, and it does AVC-Ultra. Should we expect an HPX170A with AVC-Ultra in the future without the 3D Lens?

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/images/Content/pressroom/WEB%203D-CAM_lowangle.JPG
__________________

[puredrifting]

This is what is referred to as a "conceptual model", it may or may not have any bearing what a real 3D product may look like. It would be cool to shoot 3D with a single camera instead of the RED stereoscopic deal with two physical cameras on one mount nonsense.

I don't think 3D is going to really take off just like it never took off in the 50s. It is a gimmick, a fun gimmick but not really necessary for most visual storytelling. The only reasons that Hollywood has to embrace 3D is that they need to get people back into theaters and the only reason electronics companies will make a stab at it is because you must replace your entire production chain with BRAND NEW GEAR! New cameras, media, screen, editing software, etc. So of course the manufacturers are going to push it.

Dan

[pkendall]

the static electricity from carrying spare change in your pocket can erase P2 cards if they are carried in your pocket.
Dan

Show of hands, how many people have a pocket that they keep free of metal, ie keys and change for their iphone/etc?

I'd put my p2 card in its protective case first before i'd ever put it anywhere..

[Barry_Green]

That's fine, but -- you don't have to. When Sony was spewing that nonsense I went to the casino cage and bought a $10 roll of dimes, a hundred dimes, and threw 'em all in my pocket and then stuck a bare P2 card in there and then walked around for about half an hour. Then I tested it -- it worked fine.

So, sure, go ahead and protect your card to keep it looking shiny and new, but don't worry about its ruggedness, it can take it.

[puredrifting]

If you think about it, it is impossible for change in a pocket to generate static electricty. You discharge static electricity by rouching metal not by rubbing it together or against cloth.

Dan

[Barry_Green]

Yeah, but after I pulled the card out of the change-filled pocket, I threw it on the carpet and dragged it all around and ground it into the carpet. If static was gonna be a problem, I think I pushed it about as far as someone could reasonably ever expect to. And, of course, once I put it in the camera it played perfectly fine.

[puredrifting]

Yes, I recall when you reported back on Sony's BS mud slinging that year.

I am totally flashing back to the late 80s when I was an audio manager at Circuit City. All the salesman decided the cool thing was to demo this newfangled "CD technology" to vinyl buying customers. The would throw a CD across the aisle, grind it into the carpet and then put it into a player and it would playback fine. Little did they understand how fragile the CD really was.

Luckily we don't have the same fragility issues with P2.

Dan

[David Jimerson]

Oh, and don't forget -- we rubbed them against as many active TV screens as we could.

[Buck Forester]

I've turned my P2 card into a multipurpose pocket tool. I added a couple knives, a cork screw, file, phillips head screwdriver, and toenail clippers. I've even added a treble hook to the back and trolled for trout with it, makes a great flashing lure. Still works perfectly.