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k2director
04-19-2009, 11:07 PM
I found his video on the Panasonic international site:

http://blog.panasonic-broadcast.com/2009/04/19/avc-ultra/

200 Mbps
You can do 1080/60P with 4:2:2/10bit
or 1080/24P, 2K/24p with 4:4:4/12bit

Hmmmm, no Panasonic camera I'm aware of does 1080/60p, right? Or does the HPX300?
But if your camera does 1080/24P, does that mean you can automatically shoot 24P at 4:4:4/12 bit?

Barry_Green
04-19-2009, 11:17 PM
Nothing from Sony or Panasonic or JVC or Canon does 1080/60p yet. But 1080/60p can be used with 3D stuff, to give two eyes' streams of 1080/30p, so that does make some sense. And 1080/60p will be coming, Sony and panasonic are both talking about it.

2K is interesting, but recognize that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be getting into cinema cameras right away; they have a 2K processor for their D5-HD decks now.

Barry_Green
04-19-2009, 11:21 PM
Okay, so, yeah, he pretty much lays it out there: AVC-Ultra is up to 200 megabits of AVC-I, allowing 1080/24p at 4:4:4 and 12-bit depth. Or, 1080/60p. Or, 3-D.

That's pretty cool!

Luis Caffesse
04-20-2009, 12:07 AM
That's pretty cool!

understatement of the day.

2K/24p with 4:4:4/12bit?
1080/60p?
3D??

I'm floored.
You'd think after years of doing this I'd get used to technology moving forward...yet every time we hear announcements like this I feel like a kid again.
Awesome.

:thumbsup:

mikkowilson
04-20-2009, 12:16 AM
So we'll get AVCU in the 300b? :laugh:

- Mikko

Luis Caffesse
04-20-2009, 12:18 AM
So we'll get AVCU in the 300b? :laugh:

- Mikko

I think it's a firmware upgrade for the HMC150.
:beer:



Yes, that's a joke - don't go starting rumors now

k2director
04-20-2009, 12:48 AM
Okay, so, yeah, he pretty much lays it out there: AVC-Ultra is up to 200 megabits of AVC-I, allowing 1080/24p at 4:4:4 and 12-bit depth. Or, 1080/60p. Or, 3-D.

That's pretty cool!

Let's see XDCAM disk keep up with that!

mcgeedigital
04-20-2009, 05:32 AM
1080/24P, 2K/24p with 4:4:4/12bit is a shot across the bow of the Scarlet. (Yes, i know Scarlet is now 5K, but how usable is that in an every day edit environment?)

Imagine real time 4:4:4/12 bit 2K with the proven P2 workflow. Wow.

Jan_Crittenden
04-20-2009, 05:35 AM
Hi Guys,

Not really sure why it didn't make the press conference, but it might be because it is not on the show floor. It isn't a camera, might not end up being a camera, might be just a deck type of recorder, still under design and consideration. I have not seen it yet. I will try and get more info today.

Best,

Jan

Evangelos Achillopoulos
04-20-2009, 05:47 AM
Hi Guys,

Not really sure why it didn't make the press conference, but it might be because it is not on the show floor. It isn't a camera, might not end up being a camera, might be just a deck type of recorder, still under design and consideration. I have not seen it yet. I will try and get more info today.

Best,

Jan

Like a new HPM-210...??? to partner 3700...???

John Caballero
04-20-2009, 08:38 AM
I am sure it will end up "being a camera" and much more!

dbwolfe
04-20-2009, 08:53 AM
will 200 Mbps AVC-Ultra be recordable on any P2 card or just the newer E series cards? what is the max bitrate P2 can handle?

Carlos Corral
04-20-2009, 09:00 AM
It should be able to record to any P2 card. The "R" series has a transfer speed of 640 Mbps so it should be able to right?

AwakenedFilms
04-20-2009, 10:26 AM
Wow. Very impressive. I agree, sounds like it should go to A or E series, but E would be so much more preferable since the transfer speed is so high. But remember, this is speculation...Jan seems to allude to the fact that it might only be available in decks, not cameras.


Jason

Christian m
04-20-2009, 05:11 PM
Although AVC-U would probably give sony a HUGE headache if Pana decide to develop a line of high end cameras that can utilize it. 4:4:4 filebased workflow with simple P2 cards, not the hugely expensive HDcam-sr stuff. Or just 1080p50/60....

SPZ
04-20-2009, 09:14 PM
Nothing prevents Sony to develop something similar for the SxS system...

This sounds good, and would love to see this on a camera, but should only come next year or later.

All announcements have been a bore, excluding the cards price cuts. No breakthrough camera announced or displayed...yet.

I was looking forward for an HPX300 firmware update to address the 1080p issue. While addresing the flash situation is nice, it would be equally important for this to be addressed. That, and, of course, the S/N.

Scarlet is still what I want to see from NAB. It was either that, a surprise HPX500 update, an HVX300 with the HPX300 advancements in an handheld form factor, an EX1a with the 4:2:2 sony XDCAM codec, or a surprise Canon or Nikon video camera with Interchangeable lenses and FF35 recording.

No such thing untill now, so, a bit disappointing in the camera department.

One thing that really catched my eye was the Matrox H264 encoding hardware, the MAX technology. A MXO2 with this sounds very, very tempting.

puredrifting
04-20-2009, 11:02 PM
Some years, NAB is a huge waste of time. I would be pretty pissed off if I went all of the way to Vegas just to see some new Silver P2 cards. I wouldn't hold your breath on the 300 skew update, that could happen at any time or could never happen.

So far, a big wash out on new cams. No RED announcements, no new Canon using a large sensor, no new Under $40,000.00 from Sony.

We'll see if Apple announces FCS3 tomorrow night at the FCPUG Supermeet.

D

USLatin
04-21-2009, 08:59 AM
Jan! Very cool stuff!!! :thumbsup:

DChang
04-21-2009, 11:08 AM
I am sure it will end up "being a camera" and much more!

Aren't you the same person that likes to bring everyone down back to reality when they talk about all things RED that don't actually exist yet?

AVCUltra is promising, but until it's incorporated it will always be promising.

Fair is fair. Red uses forums, Panasonic uses press releases. Hype is born.

BrianMurphy
04-25-2009, 06:23 AM
Panasonic has more than a half dozen cameras out on the market with working new technology and perhpaps a bit of hype ...who knows.
Red has.....one camera a couple of year old, and lots of CG images and attitude and of course a couple of forums. My money is on Panasonic.

Jan_Crittenden
04-25-2009, 06:48 AM
Nothing prevents Sony to develop something similar for the SxS system...

Except the necessary speed to record it. It does need at least the speed of the codec 200Mbs plus 1.5 times that for overhead. in a sustained write mode. I know the SxS will transfer at 800 Mbs, but I have never seen them publish the write speed. And then there is the issue that Sony would have to move away from their MPEG2 stance. So far the only nod they have given to MPEG4 H.264 AVC is in the consumer level of cameras.


This sounds good, and would love to see this on a camera, but should only come next year or later.

Outside the 3D HD theater there was an HPX170 looking camera with binocular-like lensing, so maybe there will be a camera.


I was looking forward for an HPX300 firmware update to address the 1080p issue. While addresing the flash situation is nice, it would be equally important for this to be addressed. That, and, of course, the S/N.

Frankly in regard to the 1080P/24 skew, I sent it out with one of our consultant DPs to shoot some moving cars, track some action, and working with it over the last 10 days I think that if you move the camera so that you don't have judder in your motion, you won't have skew either. Follow the ASC chart for the Motion handling in relation to frame rate and mm on the lens, you should be fine. And yes, the flashband compensation really addresses the thing you can't control.

As far as the S/N, we are not seeing the same thing here, there must be an explanation and my bets are in one of two places, that the DRS was on and the scene didn't need it, or there may be an issue with the FCP ProRes in the 50P implementation. ProRes does indeed have a footprint, I do see it here.

All the best,

Jan

Joe_Digital
05-09-2009, 10:47 AM
So is there any more information about the AVC Ultra codec? Is this a year away? Will it be usable with existing cameras by way of firmware upgrade?

Barry_Green
05-09-2009, 05:50 PM
No, most definitely not. AVC-Ultra is not for recording HD footage. They already have that covered with AVC-Intra.

AVC-Ultra is for recording what comes *after* HD ... so, 1080/60p, or 3-D, or 4:4:4, or whatever.

TedRR
05-09-2009, 09:41 PM
Let's see XDCAM disk keep up with that!

It would blow up in flames! :)

Joe_Digital
05-10-2009, 01:14 PM
I wouldn't exactly say Intra 100 covers HD. I think there are still improvements to be made on Intra, which is why I'm asking about how Ultra could be incorporated into current workflows.

When I examine an image on my HD CRT via the HD component cable -as always I'm impressed by what's there, but then when I record and view the 1080 or 720 footage via HD-SDI in my Symphony Nitris the compression is obvious.

I would welcome 1080 4:4:4 at 200 or greater/Mbits/sec. I'm not saying don't push the envelope to beyond 2K, but why not improve on what is achievable in the current 1080 or 720 colorspace?

Robert M Wright
05-14-2009, 03:10 PM
According to this, write speed with SxS cards is about 640Mbps (doesn't seem likely there would be a problem sustaining 200Mbps):

http://www.sony.ca/promedia/support.htm

I don't see any reason why Sony would have to abandon MPEG2, for recording 1080p60 (or whatever) either.

Barry_Green
05-14-2009, 03:46 PM
I don't see any reason why Sony would have to abandon MPEG2, for recording 1080p60 (or whatever) either.
They've already said they're going to.

Sony fully acknowledges that H.264 is better than MPEG-2. I mean, they'd have to be idiots not to. Their claim is that the H.264 infrastructure isn't developed enough yet, there aren't single-chip AVC encoders that they're satisfied with, etc. That's why they haven't gone with it yet. Which is, of course, the same attitude that led them to be too late to the memory recording scene in the first place.