HFS10(0) vs JVC HMC100

[Chamber005]

Okay, before everyone shouts that the JVC is a FAR better camera than the HFS10 for obvious ergonomic (and audio) reasons, I'm just curious as to what people are thinking video vs video.

The HMC shoots at 720p and is "upgraded" to 1080.

The HFS is native 1080p

The HMC has 1/4" CCDs

The HFS is 1/2.6" CMOS

Just looking at the chip sets and megapixels, wouldn't the (probably much cheaper, not sure yet) HFS result in a better picture overall?

[roblc12]

hf s10 is 1080i

[Chamber005]

hf s10 is 1080i


...?

http://camcorders.toptenreviews.com/hdv/canon/canon-hf10-reviews-23877.htm

"In addition to the full 1080p HD recording, the HF S10 will also record high resolution (http://camcorders.toptenreviews.com/hdv/canon/canon-hf10-reviews-23877.htm#) 8 MP still images."

[DavidNJ]

Pretty sure a single CMOS sensor is 1080p. My guess is the Canon takes a better picture. The JVC may have more manual controls and on board XLRs. It records 35Mb/s XDCAM EX vs. the Canon's AVCHD...the Canon has a MUCH better recording quality.

I would get the Canon if I got either. That said, my guess is a Rebel T1i will take a better picture than either.

[roblc12]

- I read those same reviews and when i called up the tech at canon they said that it records in 1080i. 24p (records at 60i) and 30p ( records at 60i), inaddition i have this camcorder and when i record in 24p and upload the file on sony vegas pro it says the file is 1920x1080 interlaced. the reviews are wrong its not a true 1080p, it records 1080/24p on a 60i format.

- check the specs at the canon site http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=17993#ModelTechSpecsAct "frame rate 60i, 24p Progressive (records at 60i), 30p Progressive (records at 60i)


- I already excepted it, i was in denial for a while cause i just spent $1200, i thought it was prgressive but i was wrong, dont get me wrong though this camcorder has a beautiful picture, looks progressive on my samsung 52" hdtv, the only time you notice the interlacing is when the uploaded footage is online without deinterlacing it.


- For some reason canon decided to record 24p on a 60i format, i guess for ease of playback on ntsc monitors and for editing reasons, according to wikipedia.

- Quote wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p

- "...Previously, few formats supported 24p and the industry used workarounds to work with 24p footage with 60i equipment.
To record 24p material onto a 60i format (i.e. any NTSC-based format), pulldown is typically added to 'pad' the 24 frames into 60 fields. This is done by taking every frame and splitting it into two fields. Then, every second frame has one of its fields duplicated, resulting in three fields. The fields are then played back in that pattern – 2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3 … and so on. The resulting video becomes a 60i stream and can be displayed on NTSC monitors. However, the aesthetic of 24p motion is retained and the footage does not have the motion of typical 60i video.
This 3:2 pulldown is the same process that is used when transferring film into video (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine).
Any editing application which supports NTSC video can be used to edit footage employing the 3:2 pulldown scheme. It can be captured as a standard 60i file and edited like footage from any other camera, while still retaining its 24p aesthetic. There can be issues when editing the footage as 60i, however, including choppiness in short transitions or fades, and also a mismatch in the motion characteristics of the footage and any graphics which may be added to it, such as text or logos. So, while 24p footage can be edited as 60i, it is usually better to edit the footage on a 24p timeline with the pulldown removed..."


- alot of review sites dont go to the limits on researching info about camcorders, they want to make money and tell us what we want to hear, they dont tell us the whole truth but some sites do.

[DavidNJ]

The recording is over 60i, a 2:2 or 2:3 pulldown, but the sensor is progressive. The underlying image is progressive.

[roblc12]

yea the sensor is progressive, but the footage will always be interlaced unless you transcode it. what i was trying to prove is that this camcorder doesnt record in native 1080p. The reason why they put 24p over 60i is because "With NTSC equipment, it is impossible to display a 24p signal directly as the monitors only support the 60i framerate. Hence, pulldown must be added to the 24p material to be displayed." quote wikipedia.

[Cranky]

PF30 is 30PsF, which is practically 30p. I believe Adam Wilt noticed in his article on the HF11 that it uses interlaced chroma in PF30, I wonder have Canon fixed this in the HF-S.