Looking for Tripod Advice

[dmchord]

I bought what I thought was a decent tripod for 80 bucks when I got my still camera last year. I used that today with the HVX and it's pretty shaky. What does anyone recommend that won't break the bank, but will give smooth pans and stability. maybe that's just wishful thinking...you get what you pay for, right?

[wgzn]

youre not going to get smooth complex movement to a stop for under a grand or two.

simple pans and tilts? bogen stuff will do ya fine.

[nantnee]

wont break the bank = Bogen 503 HDV head with 351? sticks. Bogen is not the best by far, but its cheap and will do. $600 i think. Or, you could check out ebay and see if they have any good deals.

[Spec-Comm]

I ditto nantee.

Bogen/Manfrotto 503HDV,351MVB2K

http://www.spec-comm.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=301

Sincerely,

Andrew Hoffman
Vice President
Specialized Communications Corp.
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
andrewh@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com
www.twitter.com/speccomm

[ryvac]

Yes Bogen/Manfrotto is the way to go.
I've been using the 501 head and it's great for the price. Never had problems.

but if you want something cheaper, 701HDV is something you might want to take a look at. (never used it tho)
the 701HDV has good reviews on it and it's cheap!
add legs and it shouldn't break your bank

[Spec-Comm]

Please note that the 701HDV and the 501HDV are faux-fluid heads. 503HDV is the lowest cost true fluid head in the Manfrotto line.

Sincerely,

Andrew Hoffman
Vice President
Specialized Communications Corp.
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
andrewh@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com
www.twitter.com/speccomm

[Scott W. Smith]

While we all must consider budgets when buying equipment that shouldn't be your only consideration. If you want to set yourself apart from others then a good tri-pod is a must. Back in '04 when I bought my DVX-100 I did a lot research and because I knew much of my work would be as as a one man band I wanted a tri-pod that was solid in pans and tilts but also easy to lug around. I ended up buying a Miller Solo DV-10 (which is a wee bit more than $80) but five years later that carbon fiber lightweight has been my only tri-pod even as I've upgraded to an HVX-200 and a HPX 170.

I've also carried it though many an airport, all over New York City during 12 hours of shooting one day, and in far away places like Russia and South Africa. I love that tri-pod. It's a breeze to carry around even if you have a small light kit, a backpack, and a camera. Maybe you can find a used one.

[puredrifting]

I totally agree with Scott. Why drop $600.00 on a tripod that you will soon grow frustrated with? Bogens all have a lot of backlash and stiction which in layman terms means that it is impossible to do pans and tilts that will be smooth. There will be a jar to the picture anytime you try to begin or end a pan or tilt as a result of the stiction. The longer the lens, the more these issues will be magnified.

All of us as newbies go through the Bogen route, we buy one, use it for a few months, realize that it is a POS not befitting our killer $5,000.00 cameras, then we usually get serious and buy a real tripod like a Miller, Sachtler, O'Connor, Vinten, Panther or something else pro level. Are they expensive? Yes. Are they worth it? As Scott and thousands of other pros can attest to, yes, a good tripod will outlast your next three or four cameras.

If you can afford a $5,000.00 camcorder and expensive P2 cards, you can afford a professional tripod. If you can't, you bought the wrong camera, you should have bought something half of the price, then you could have afforded a real tripod for it, which is much more important than codec, features, etc. as far as the end result. I would MUCH rather have an XA-H1 or an HMC150 with a real tripod than an HVX200 with a Bogen or other cheap tripod. My footage from the Canon or 150 would look superior from a movement and storytelling standpoint.

If you have to cheap out, I highly recommend the Libec LS-38. Just a little more than a Bogen and works leagues better.

If you are only shooting sit down interviews, a Bogen will be fine. But of you need to shoot smooth pans and tilts, Bogens are bogus. Bogen seems to be the defacto cheap out tripod from users who bought too expensive a camera for their real budget. The Bogens are what they are, a cheap, well built consumer tripod that have heads that are incapable of professional moves, no matter how skilled the operator.

Good luck,

Dan

[Ryanwar7]

puredrifting: Would you say that this holds true with all Bogen/Manfrottos or just the lower end of the Fluid head line (ie 503, 501, and etc.)? Would going up to something like a 516 or even a 510 head get rid of this problem, or is Manfrotto just a waste of money altogether?

Cheers,
Ryan

[wgzn]

id be curious to get feedback on that as well. ive used the manfrotto 510 head extensively and it works night and day better than a 501,503. i wonder if the difference would be as dramatic moving from the 510 to say a Sachtler or Miller?

[puredrifting]

Ryan:

Very timely you mention that, I was at FilmTools today and they had the full Bogen lineup on the floor so I played with all of them. These are my impressions...

1. I will have at least a few bites of Crow. Bogen has upped their game since I bought my 501. I own the old 501 and the production company I used to work for had five of the old 503s. Both models are useless pieces of junk for professional production. The replacement models are much improved.

2. The new 503HDV and 501HDV are VERY MUCH improved over the old ones I am used to using. I like that the new 503HDV head comes with a larger diameter pan lever and the head itself is wider, more like a Sachtler or O'Connor is fairly wide when you look at it from above. Frankly the new heads are 1000% improvement over the old ones. That isn't saying much as the old ones were so dismal but they are much, much better.

None of the heads had a camera attached, they were all just sitting out but from what I could tell, I could actually do fairly smooth stops and starts in panning and tilting with the 503HDV. The 501HDV, not as much but without a camera attached, these observations don't really mean much. The real test would be to test with an HD camera hooked up to a 17" monitor, following a moving subject like a dancer, that would tell you in an instant if they were "good enough" but based of just feeling the new movements in these heads, I am impressed. They definitely got the message that the old models were terrible. At least they added counterbalances to the new ones. Without a counterbalance tension, your expensive camera can tip over and break if you forget to lock the tilt control and walk away from it. I have seen it happen. That is why I have a cow when I see shortsighted people with $15k Letus/Brevis fully loaded rigs mounted on these hideously cheap heads with no tilt counterbalance. One episode of forgetting to lock the tilt and your $15k can end up in pieces on the ground.

2. I think I tried the 516 head, this is a larger pro sized head, about the size of a Sachtler Video 12 or 15? Had bigger, beefier legs with a 100mm bowl and heavy duty castings to attach the legs to the bowl. This head had only three stages of pan drag and three stages of tilt drag and a larger, longer camera plate. The retail on it for the head and the legs was $1,800.00. I must say that it felt decent, but why would someone spend $1,800.00 on a Bogen when they could buy a Sachtler or Miller for the same price? Once again, no camera attached so my impressions are just of an unloaded head. Nice head but when you are getting into the multiple thousands of dollars, why Bogen, why not a higher end brand? The upper Bogen heads have always been an enigma, they are decent feeling but they are not cheap so why would anyone choose one over a pro brand?

3. I tried out the 701HDV head. Very impressive for the size and weight. I am purchasing a small Canon Vixia HFS100 for a documentary project and I will be picking up this head with some small carbon fiber still photo legs to drag all around France. For a non fluid head, I could tell that the little 1 pound Canon HFS100 on this thing would be sweet. The 701HDV head weighs 1.8lbs, the legs I am buying for it come in at 2.4lbs so for a total 4.2lbs, I will have a decent tripod that I can backpack with for the shoot and use it for my still DSLR as well. B&H has this head for $118.00. Impressive for the size and weight although I wouldn't use anything over a couple of pounds on it. This is not the right head to get for an HMC150/XA-H1/HVX200/HPX170/EX1, too small and flimsy. But for tiny camcorder, this isn't bad for travel. It will not be rock steady but I can't lug a 20lb head and tripod all over France for weeks and I cannot buy a $1,500.00 tripod for a $1,000.00 camera. You have to make compromises sometimes. But at least I am aware of the compromises. I know that on long lens, the pans will be shaky and full of stiction but I will do my best with what I can afford lug on this project.

4. As far as Bogen/Manfrotto, here is what I would say. Definitely not a waste of money on all levels. I know from experience that these tripod systems are not very heavy duty. Out of the five we had at the production company, at any given moment, at least one or two of them would have a squeak, sticking issue or something broken on them, they were constantly being sent to the Bogen repair in NJ. For the cheap ones, I was most impressed with the 701HDV head for a tiny, around 1lb camcorder and travel. I was impressed with how much better the 503HDV was over the old 503 (nonHDV) that I have used for years. I would want to test it with a camera and a monitor though before buying. The real test is always the simultaneous pan/tilt on a long lens. Can you zoom in far on a distant subject and begin in the upper corner and tilt and pan down simultaneously to the opposite lower corner smoothly with no bumping, jarring or shaking at the start or stop? I can with my Sachtler and I cannot with any Bogen I have ever used. Same operator, same camera, same focal length and shot. That would be a good test for the 503HDV head.

As far as legs, I am partial to the Miller Solo DV carbon fiber (spreaderless) if you need a 75mm bowl or the Miller Solo VJ version if you need a 100mm bowl. Spreaders are a PITA for my work, I hate them and steel and aluminum are heavier than carbon fiber. But the Millers aren't really cheap either. You get what you pay for with tripods. Buy something expensive and it will be good, I have never used a bad expensive tripod or head. But I have used plenty of bad medium and low priced ones.

The upper line Bogens work fine but are still primitive and flimsily built in comparison to pro brands like Sachtler, Miller, O'Connor. I can't see why anyone would spend more than about $500.00 on a Bogen when there are better alternatives for the same money. I still think the Libec LS-38 is quite a bit better than the 503HDV but the 503HDV is cheaper. Once you get to the $2,000.00 and up Bogens, I think you need your head examined if you buy one, for that money you could buy the best brands.

My .02, YMMV.

Dan

[dmchord]

You guys got me! I'll definitely be going with the Miller Solo or the Libec LS38. There's still a big difference, like the Libec is 700 and the Miller is 1300, but everything said here has made a lot of sense. Why not spend once on something I'll be happy with. I can't afford either of them, but if I do this I should do it right, yes? Maybe I'll flip a coin. If, down the road, I were to get a Letus Extreme, would both of these support that attached to the camera?

[puredrifting]

Yes, I think you would be fine unless you had some big, heavy lenses that cost thousnds of doillars. The Libec LS-38 is rated to 17.6lbs I believe, the Miller Solo DV sticks are rated 44lbs.

D

[mozingopj]

You guys got me! I'll definitely be going with the Miller Solo or the Libec LS38. There's still a big difference, like the Libec is 700 and the Miller is 1300, but everything said here has made a lot of sense. Why not spend once on something I'll be happy with. I can't afford either of them, but if I do this I should do it right, yes? Maybe I'll flip a coin. If, down the road, I were to get a Letus Extreme, would both of these support that attached to the camera?

I was also on a tight budget when first buying gear and went with this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/567737-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto__BO055XWB701K_Video_Aluminum_Wilde rness.html

It worked just fine for the HVX...a little stubborn on the start and stop, but I just started shooting out of frame and cut into the smooth part in edit. I've since gotten a Redrock M2 and adding that totally made it unstable. I've tighten the knob as much as possible and if tilting down a bit...it will continue to fall. I was happy with it and it served it's purpose to get me off the ground. I need something that can support my HVX, Redrock w/ a 200mm lens....any ideas? Good luck in your search and hope this helped for the time being.

[Al MacLeod]

Just a quick point...having shot news in a 15 photog vhf station, ANY tripod, good bad or ugly gets trashed in a very short time frame in a pool setup. The trick to equipment that works well is how you treat it. Throw it around, drop it and crank down knobs and levers with way to much force and yup....it won't work very well. Take a look at your hands. See the opposable (sp) thumbs? That's the ticket. Use the evolutionary advantage we all have. Learn how a device works and it will treat you well.

[Xrayspecs]

I have Manfrotto 351MVB2 sticks and a Bogen 503 head (not the 503hdv) and I am frustrated with the jerky movement of the supposedly fluid 503 head. I think I'd like to get the Libec H38 head. Is the Libec head compatible with my Manfrotto sticks, or will I need to replace those with Libec sticks?

[Carlos Corral]

Hey Dan,

I've been using a Bogen 503 HDV tripod for several months now and have never had a problem with it when it comes to pans or tilts. Do they become a problem if you add more weight to them (camera with 35mm adapter)?

[TedRR]

Personally I loved the SOOM Tripod. Talk about a swiss army knife type tripod. I am on the verge of getting one with their new larger head.
http://www.sachtler.us/index.php?id=1108&exp_mode=product&exp_cid=38&exp_pid=588

There are a lot of good tripods now days. I think the biggest reason people don't like their tripod is because they under buy on the head. The head is probably the most important part of a tripod system.
But of course, JMHO.

[justFRED]

We have a Miller Solo DV-10 aluminum and love it.

Light, flexible, wickedly quick to set up, move, reset, smooth pans, tilts. And thanks to the independent leg settings, it works on stairs or a steep slope.

Worth every penny.

-g

[andythefilmer]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563815-REG/Davis_Sanford__ProVista_Airlift_Tripod_with.html

I just got this one... Very smooth pans and tilts plus it comes with a set of wheels and has 2 pan handles! $190!!!

I bought what I thought was a decent tripod for 80 bucks when I got my still camera last year. I used that today with the HVX and it's pretty shaky. What does anyone recommend that won't break the bank, but will give smooth pans and stability. maybe that's just wishful thinking...you get what you pay for, right?

[wgzn]

(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563815-REG/Davis_Sanford__ProVista_Airlift_Tripod_with.html)h ttp://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ipod_with.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563815-REG/Davis_Sanford__ProVista_Airlift_Tripod_with.html)

I just got this one... Very smooth pans and tilts plus it comes with a set of wheels and has 2 pan handles! $190!!!

are you serious? that looks and sounds like a piece of junk...

[andythefilmer]

A lot of people say its crappy and there is some bad reviews but I enjoy it a lot!

[mjdorris]

That Davis and Sanford tripod took about 6 months to completely fall apart on me. I got decent pans out of it but man is the construction on it cheap.

[mb72378]

I'm in the same boat. I thought I was sold on the libec ls38, but it not have any pan/tilt drag controls scares me. I called Spec-Comm and they told me that they recommend the 503HDV. I'm so confused because everyone here on the board said that manfrotto's were kind of cheap.

[Jordan_Sopinsky]

That Davis and Sanford tripod took about 6 months to completely fall apart on me.

There is a direct relationship between how much money is paid for something and how well it gets treated.

[wgzn]

unless you do a lot of crucial complex moves, even the 501 level bogen head will be fine.

i shoot a lot of retail and back when i used a 501 i noticed my camera path and stops werent what i wanted them to be. specifically, on a combo pan and tilt you could often see subtle path variances. and the stops at the end were frequently shaky. so i moved up to the 510 and 526 level heads and everything got WAY better and WAY EASIER. ive also used vairous miller, sachtler, vinten, cartoni etc. they were great. some way better than the 510 but for me, not great enough to justify the price jump as far as a purchase goes.

i typically just rent higher end tripods when the need arises

you can pick up a good used 510 on 3193 legs for about $800 pretty regularly on ebay. i use it for a fully rigged out hpx170+35mm setup as well as an 8' kessler crane and it never gives me an ounce of worry...

[hjrt]

Interesting discussion since I'm orientating on a tripod as well and was leaning a bit towards the Manfrotto 519 head since i think that a bowl is quite a must to easily adjust the level of the head. What do you think about that head? I could also go for the Vinten Vision 3 head but it as only a 3-step drag level control.

[docrock]

Listen to Specc, I have the 503HDV, purchased it on their advice (and my 200a) and happy as can be! I also have a beautiful Vinten and nice head that weighs well over 25 pounds in the case and is awkward as hell to lug around with my gear.

I use my 503 all the time! If you need a better head, network a bit with the other production guys in your 'hood:) They may have a nice tripod and a couple of wireless lavs but no shotgun and only one cam.. Work out a trade with him/her or a deal where you can swap gear or rent it if you need it. Worked great for me. The guy I worked with helped me from the beginning and we were able to scratch eachother's backs when needed (I was also able to make a lot of business contacts through him).

Tripods are a necessary tool, especially in High Def. Definitely buy a quality rig and rent until you can afford.