Stabalizer/Steadicam - Subway Specific

[banksie312]

Hey Guys,
I have always been checking out homemade steadicams and things in the DIY section, but have a specific question. I'm shooting a short for my film class that takes place mostly on a subway. It is non-dialogue based and I will just need the visuals - so it is important that I don't have too much shaking. I was thinking of making a basic handheld steadicam that is just like an old tripod with some weight attached to the bottom to control the swaying, really weigh down the camera.
I wasnt sure if anyone had some maybe subway specific solutions they came up with (I really don't have the time or tools to make a full fledge steadicam, I know some people make them pretty much like the factories do). If not, I will probably make arrangements to borrow my friend's GlideCam, but i figured I would ask.
Also, anyone shot seriously on the subway before (NYC)? I've shot some stuff, but it was very quick and ran into no issues. I know you aren't supposed to, but we wouldn't really be filmmakers if we didn't film in places we weren't supposed to be haha.

Thanks.
-Brendan

Almost forgot, I am going to shoot stock DVX for this. - No adapter

[tomthemacman]

There are a couple of problems with this idea. Mainly, the Steadicam is going to react quite badly to the erratic movement of the subway. When movement stops and starts, a Steadicam is prone to instability, bucking out in different directions as the acceleration forces change. A makeshift version may be less likely to have this, but it still won't be very stable in something moving that erratically.

Also, even if you can keep the Steadicam stable, the shot will be stable relative to the earth, not relative to the subway. So, if the subway tilts, the camera stays level, unless you manually are constantly adjusting it to the movement of the subway. Now, this is less true with a makeshift stabilizer, but a real Steadicam or a Glidecam will require a lot of finesse to keep it stable with the train, which I think is probably the ultimate goal (who cares if what's out the window is stable, so long as what's inside is stable).

So, what's the best solution? Something hard-mounted to the train, or sitting on the train, or braced to the train. That way, its movements will be almost negligible with regards to the train. Now, if you can't do this, since it sounds like you might not be able to, you might be better off just trying to brace the camera up against a vertical pole. It won't be pretty, and it might be pretty shaky still, but it could help. Remember, the goal is to make the train's movements also be the camera's movements - then the inside of the car will appear "stationary" to the camera.

[banksie312]

Thanks tom. I have no idea why i didn't think about all of that, in face I just finished helping someone last week understand why my "car mount" worked so well - that it was my tripod set up inside my car and locked down and moved with the car+person driving.

Do you think setting up a lightweight tripod would do the trick? I'm thinking that is the best option. Also, does anything think that I should use the OIS on the DVX? I usually stay away from it, but maybe in this situation it could help make the parts that suddenly rattle be a tiny bit smoother. Also, having a little bit of swaying, rattling, or other motions should be ok as long as they're subtle as they are supposed to be on a subway.

[tomthemacman]

Well, if you can spring a lightweight tripod onto a subway without the MTA police breathing down your neck, go for it! That would be the a great option (probably the best beyond rigging to the train itself). So long as that tripod stays firmly rooted on the floor, the shot should be pretty solid with relation to the train.

With OIS, I'd turn it off. If the mount is solid enough, there shouldn't be much vibration. If the tripod isn't really that solid though, it might help. I'd experiment and see which one works.


Also, not sure, but I think you boomed for me while I was doing some Steadicam stuff for Duet. It's a shame I didn't do too good of a job with that shot, but weird how I ran back into you on DVX!

[banksie312]

haha oh man tom! i had no idea that was you. I boomed on 8:18 actually, I couldn't make it for duet. But this upcoming project should be very good, the one with steve and jon. (the short im talking about is completely different though haha)

I think i should be able to get around for at least a short period of time without them getting on me. I may bring a sandbag in my backpack and toss it on if i can really quickly to part of the tripod. There may be a lot of setting up and taking down quickly for this, but hopefully it will be doable. Thanks for the help, I'll post a bit on how i did it (if it all works out) here for future people.

[tomthemacman]

Oops... 8:18. That's what I meant to say.

Good luck with the project!:thumbsup:

[Noel Evans]

This sounds like the cinesaddle would be a good option

http://www.abelcine.com/store/home.php?cat=889

[grimrebes]

You could also, carefully, mafer clamp yourself onto one of the poles... If you can secure the camera to the clamp, this could lend you to some interesting camera positions as well. And, based on my personal experience, you may way to try this later on at night. The MTA does have permit regulations for this kind of stuff, just so you know, so unless you get permission, you may also want to be prepared to either play dumb or cut and run ;-)

[banksie312]

Noel - The cinesaddle is a good idea, i'll try and get my hands on one

grimrebes - i like the clamp idea. I am aware of the permit restrictions, but if i play dumb what will they really do? I am just afraid they will want to take my tape, anything else i can deal with. My friend is a photographer and was recently shooting an oil refinery and homeland security came and made him format his card...i just really dont want this to happen to me. I don't know about the whole cut and run deal, though it may come down to that haha.

thanks for all the ideas, I may go on the subway with a few of these methods and test them out and let you guys know what works best

[modus]

I was hired to shoot the maiden voyage of a train for NJTransit. I was told it was going to be a few press conferences, but then was told I had to shoot the entire half-hour show of a local tv/radio host onboard the moving train.

All of my handheld, shoulder-supported b-roll for the ride was as shaky as shaky can be. When I put it on the tripod for the show, however, the camera was now moving with the train and not me. The riders were the only ones wavering, which was fine. Natural and comfortable-looking.

The only time I found bobbles were when I unlocked the tripod head for camera moves. I soon realized that I needed to keep the drag on it's tightest setting.

The cinesaddle looks good, but if you can't get that, a firm tripod should look fine.

[Huy Vu]

Brendan, I'm not sure if you've considered this, but the simplest solution and what I would do is simply shoot with just the camera, frame a little wider and then stabilize the footage in post. As long as the shaking isn't excessive and if you tape unobtrusive marker like a piece of gaffer tape on the side of the train it should be an easy thing to track and stabilize in a program like After Effects. You can easily adjust the amount of stabilization to get that "smooth" look but retains the natural shake of the train. The quality loss is minute, and you won't have to lug heavy equipments on the train and risk getting caught.

[banksie312]

Hey guys,
thanks for all the help. I tested out a few things and turns out that setting up a light weight tripod worked best. I tossed on the OIS and tested with and without - surprisingly with worked almost PERFECTLY. It took out the constant small shaking on the subway, but you could still see/feel the rocking of the subway itself.
I will post the finished project here when it's done, but here's a bit of before/after with some of the current color correction I'm doing. Sorry one of the images is in the wrong aspect ratio.

Before:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3587/3446972576_d04f371ea6_o.png

After:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3409/3446966610_8db7be434c_o.jpg

[banksie312]

UPDATE: All finished. You can see the film here. What I decided on was a lightweight tripod quickly roped down with a slipknot. Turned the OIS ON, stayed wide and shot quickly (just after the evening rush hour heading INTO the city). Seems like a good formula, worked multiple days. Anyway - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAEoFbrMyp8

thanks for the help guys

[Neal Buconjic]

Nice job, banksie.
Your tripod solution worked well.