When Bill Hardy Put Down His Gun [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

nouou

03-25-2009, 01:42 PM

i'm reading all the lonely scripts on the 2nd page so i picked yours and read it.

the beginning has a decent hook, meaning that your script invokes a question and the reader keeps wanting to read to find out what's going to happen. i found myself wanting to know why bill was at a bar drinking, instead of at his house. this was a good hooking mechanism.

the dialogue was 50/50 good and not so good in my opinion. alot of the things bill said, i can't distinguish from other characters. basically meaning it sounds like it's all coming from the same person. i really liked this line

BILL (V.O.)
I didn't see my wife. Not my
kids. Instead I saw the faces of
all the men I ever killed. I'm
telling you, it wasn't pretty.
Tortured, bloody bodies, men
begging for mercy. Shook me up
pretty bad, if I'm honest.

i don't know why it stuck out, maybe because the line "Instead I saw the faces of all the men I ever killed." tells a thousand stories instantly, and you know this guy has killed a ton of people throughout his life. that was done really well it thought.

the bible blocking the bullet i didn't like so much. you never know, but it just doesn't seem realistic.

BILL
Promise me you won't make a
living outta killing. Cos it's no
life at all.
this line seemed very 'corny' to me.

overall i think you told a good story within 10 pages. you find out what this man has gone through his entire life, and his last day of killing. you also did a good job of structuring the V.O. and the flashback story. so, good job.

lawriejaffa

03-25-2009, 04:03 PM

Yep well first of and i hope this isn't too sexist (because it is a little bit) but i think its an added challenge for a female writer to approach a genre of such er man stuff (the word testospherone I can never spell it) so erm man stuff must be hard!

However this story stands a lot on expectation really. Do we expect every script in the fest to consist of deformed midgets, poodles and psychotic perverts? Not because not every script can read like my diary! *ahem*

This is an unashamedly warm - family friendly - gently Christian, pre-watershed hall mark channel dainty that is cute - very cute! There was a line that had me laughing away and i think it might be all the cuter because your a girl writing this *ahem*

BILL stares out REILLY, a stocky man with a handlebar
moustache and beady eyes.

Great! Perfect! That is thee villain of all westerns! Ultra cute! So anyway I think really the point made about speaking in the same voice - between these characters, and their overt moralising - could be restrained a little. So you could still retain a positive tale but make it seem a little less obvious! Also perhaps there is a more profound way he can find 'salvation' as it were than the bullets through the bible as that is a little bit of a cliche!

Otherwise a charming story and a lovely debut!

Sarah Daly

03-25-2009, 04:10 PM

the dialogue was 50/50 good and not so good in my opinion. alot of the things bill said, i can't distinguish from other characters. basically meaning it sounds like it's all coming from the same person.

Yeh I hear you. I guess I haven't watched enough Westerns and kind of tended to revert to generic cliched Western voice :) Fair point.

Also, the bible...that was an addition to this draft and one of those niggles that I should have paid more attention to. It's too easy, not believable and again, cliched. Dammit! I should listen to my gut!

And what's with the moralising? Who do I think I am? Oprah??

Geez!

conlanforever

03-25-2009, 06:02 PM

You kept my interest throughout. I wanted to see why he wasn't with his wife and kid, so that keeps the story flowing nicely.

I agree with what you and others have said, the dialogue could be tightened up a bit and is a little too on the nose in spots. Also I saw the Bible scenario coming. But all this you seem to know.

I like that you told a warm tale and a story about morality (it was a little too obvious), but it still worked for me. Most importantly I cared about the characters and wanted to know what was going to happen with them.
Nice work!

krestofre

03-25-2009, 10:34 PM

I am grateful for the different tone of this script. Thank you for tackling the genre with your own sensibilities.

My nit-picky suggestions have already been covered by the others. On your dialog I'd recommend that you read the script out loud to yourself. That's been one of the most helpful suggestions I've ever been given as a writer. Dialog that sounds great in your head can be nothing but stumbling blocks coming out of your mouth and reading out loud really helps me during the rewriting process.

I hope you continue to write and enter these fests.

TimCollins

03-25-2009, 11:44 PM

Hey, just read it and I enjoyed the change of pace.

I agree with the responses above me about the dialogue somewhat but I thought there were plenty of lines that did work... just minor adjustments in certain places.

I know this has been mentioned already and I'm not trying to beat it into the ground but I didn't like the bible blocking the bullet... Kinda cliched and corny to me.

But the rest of it was entertaining and well-structured!

Sarah Daly

03-26-2009, 06:44 AM

Hey thanks Tim, Krestofre and Conlan forever! I'm glad you're all finding the same few things wrong with it so far and not just finding it generally bad! I'll definitely dive back into this and take out that pesky bible - it was never in the first draft - I just needed something to stop him from actually getting killed. Maybe the kid should have taken the bullet? Hmmm...

Also I'll find some Irish cowboys to act out the scenes for me and sort out the dialogue!

As for the Seventh Heaven approach I've taken, next fest I'm going dark :)

TimCollins

03-26-2009, 06:54 AM

I'll definitely dive back into this and take out that pesky bible - it was never in the first draft - I just needed something to stop him from actually getting killed. Maybe the kid should have taken the bullet? Hmmm...

That's not a bad idea at all. That would also put that extra weight of guilt on his shoulders to REALLY make him question his lifestyle.

As for the Seventh Heaven approach I've taken, next fest I'm going dark :)

Right on! Me too. :beer:

seansshack

03-27-2009, 03:20 AM

You seemed to have nailed formatting down. Nice easy to read action descriptions. Short, well descripbed and easy to read.

Not too sure of slugs such as EXT. HOUSE. PORCH would think it would read better as EXT: HOUSE - PORCH - DAY (I've been told you should always include the time of day.

Dialogue I think needs the most work. It seems to be trapped in a place that all of us writers find ourselves in one time or another. Characters talk is too perfect in places, to wooden and all talk with the same voice. Also some of the dialogue is a bit long winded. Try and cut it back to a few sentences for each set. Also try and make each characters speech different (if you can) give them something unique to the others - even if it's constantly repeating words or getting words wrong.

BILL
Hold on now, kid. Believe me, the
last thing I want to spend my
days doing is fighting but this
Reilly fella, he's a real
nasty…hold on...how do you know
what I got planned for Reilly?

BILL
Thrust me kid, I would avoid it if I could.
But this Reilly is a real son of a...wait a
second... How do you know
what I've got planned?

Well that sort of thing. I see it was advised here, to read out loud, rather than in your head. This is good advice that was also passed onto me when I started and if you ever see an actor's reading of some of your work, you can see how well this method works. I've even done such putting in accents etc - if I ever get caught they will be locking me in a rubber room. But its a worthwhile habbit to get into.

Overall the story works well. Nice tone and good happy ending. I liked the intro a lot when the kid saw him and rushed the mother.

Good work.

jasonthewho

03-27-2009, 07:08 AM

Nice solid script. Reads really easily.

Some great lines, my favorite being:

DANNY
My name's Daniel Aloysius Carter.
My friends call me Danny.
BILL
Makes sense.

A lot of good comments have already been made. The one thing I'd like to add is that your initial set up of Bill is so effective and powerful and dark, from the opening scene to his entrance at the bar, that when he talks and is so darn nice, it's a letdown.

I'd just edge up his dialogue a lot.

I think the kid should totally take the bullet. But then, I'm a Martin McDonagh fan.

DarkElastic

03-27-2009, 09:54 AM

Hi Sarah, I've just read your script and thanks for the read.

I thought this was a really nice story with a happy ending, I think the first for this Fest... I don't think anyone died... Wow, well done.

I agree with most things that have been said. Structure was good. There was good dialogue and not so good. The near death but being saved by the bible stopping the bullet could have been changed... etc.

Overall though, a very nice story with a happy ending and no deaths!!! Well done.

NJPage

03-27-2009, 10:24 AM

Hi Sarah!
A few notes I scribbled down through 1st read.
Excellent writing - flashback good - wee bit disappointing ending - (this probably, given the genre, you expect someone to pop up with gun - BANG - hero dead)
On 2nd read, I changed my mind and think the end was just right. This tale didn't rely on a twist at the finish, the story was told right throughout the script, and the lesson learnt before the end. Any 'surprise' last page would have seemed plain silly.
See you've had a few comments about characters 'voices' being a bit same(ish).
Seansshack gave good advice - re. reading dialogue out aloud.
I'm into a wee bit of acting /voiceovers and tend to superimpose voices on lotsa stuff I read - I didn't have any probs at all, distinguishing characters from your dialogue.
Overall, loved it.

Sarah Daly

03-27-2009, 11:09 AM

Try and cut it back to a few sentences for each set. Also try and make each characters speech different (if you can) give them something unique to the others - even if it's constantly repeating words or getting words wrong.

Yes, clever, Sean - I've had other people mention my same-talking characters so I might have to revisit a few scripts with this approach!

And thanks for all the comments - much appreciated!

Sarah Daly

03-27-2009, 11:17 AM

Nice solid script. Reads really easily.

The one thing I'd like to add is that your initial set up of Bill is so effective and powerful and dark, from the opening scene to his entrance at the bar, that when he talks and is so darn nice, it's a letdown.

I'd just edge up his dialogue a lot.

I think the kid should totally take the bullet. But then, I'm a Martin McDonagh fan.

Hey - thanks for reading Jason! And glad you mostly liked it!

I agree with you on Bill...he is terribly nice. I guess, thinking about it, I haven't written many bad guys...

Next script I write I'm gonna imagine Alan Rickman or John Malkovich. Or indeed Ralph Fiennes in In Bruges...too much? :)

Thanks again dude!!!

Sarah Daly

03-27-2009, 11:20 AM

Oh and DarkElastic and NJPage - thank you!!! All great comments and I will surely take them on board.

Note to self - Must sort dialogue out :)

Oh, ps. DarkElastic - I think you'll find I did actually kill a minor character...at least I implied his death with the word slumped...oh maybe I didn't! Goodness you're right! Hell I'm an incurable pacifist :)

Blaine

03-27-2009, 03:29 PM

Sarah, this was a refreshing story. Not a bank robber in sight. I absolutely loved your opening images with Bill and James, then his mother. It lost some of its steam in the saloon with the telling of the story but still maintained my interest. I definitely want to find out what happened so you kept me going.

My biggest complaint would have to be with Bill's "voice." It didn't feel consistent. Sometimes he had the edge of a western lawman and others he sounded a bit gentrified.
Considering what he'd seen in his life, I was hoping he'd have a harder edge.

You really telegraphed the Bible thing. The minute Danny gave the Bible to Bill, I thought to myself, it's going to stop a bullet.

I think this could have been an even stronger story had it been primarily between Bill and Anna.

As it was, it was a sweet story. The gunfighter who looked death in the face and saw his own mortality. Definitely one of the more tender pieces in this fest. It was a good read and kept me interested all the way through.

Mark C

03-27-2009, 04:39 PM

The thing I liked most about this story was Bill Hardy's struggle with facing his family. That's what sells it. I think a lot of people can relate to not being able to face their loved ones because they are ashamed or afraid to tell them something. It's not just about Bill Hardy realizing that he had been living his life the wrong way, because you can find a way to live with your self once you accept your mistakes. But facing your spouse and children (who think you are a hero) with this realization can be gut wrenching. It makes sense that he would not be able to face them at the beginning. I really got this one and thought it was great work!

Sarah Daly

03-27-2009, 06:34 PM

Thanks Mark - really glad you got it - I was hoping I handled that element of the story the right way. Trying to, in a roundabout way, address issues about what a man is/does once he retires. The cowboy being the epitome of stereotypical manliness :)

And Blaine, thanks for your comments - yes I see now that Bill is a little too polished, too generic. And I like the idea of fleshing out the relationship/divide between Bill and Anna. But that's nice to hear that you found it refreshing. I didn't set out to write something left of center but I guess it seems like I did! Hurray!

Chris_Keaton

03-28-2009, 10:22 AM

Sarah, dude, this is still one of my favorites. I the changes you've made. Great Job! As usual.

MrKilloran

03-28-2009, 02:47 PM

A happy even "cute" tale, with some tight structure and maybe a tad too preachy for my taste but enjoyable none-the-less. However, I have to agree on the 50/50 dialogue, very inconsistent especially this:
So there I was. Writing my epitaph in my head. Having some trouble cos I never been so good with words.He's not good with words but knows "epitaph" unless it was meant to be sort of a joke. Alternatively I really liked this:
Killin' is killin' Eliza. It ain't my place to decide if a man deserves to live or not.I could just hear this gruff gunman, tired of the way he's lived. Nice work!

Sarah Daly

03-28-2009, 07:14 PM

Thanks Chris! You are too kind :)

And Mr. Killoran I could say that the epitaph line was a clever insinuation that Bill had some self-esteem issues, a gap between his actual intelligence and what he perceived it to be...but that would be lying. I just liked the idea and couldn't think of a less fancy way to say epitaph. :) Thinking now, I should have said something like 'what to put on my gravestone' but hindsight is 20/20!

But thanks for the examples of what did and didn't work - they're really useful and I do agree with you.

Cheers again everybody!!

RodThompson

03-29-2009, 10:16 AM

Awe...this was sweet. :)

I enjoyed the change of heart for reasons of la familia. While I didn't see the end coming, I was confortably happy with the closure. It was like a guy who just one day stops cheating on his wife because he realizes he loves her, lol.

Kudos! :beer::thumbup::( (Drunk people sticking thumbs up my anus makes me sad.)

MrKilloran

03-29-2009, 01:56 PM

And Mr. Killoran I could say that the epitaph line was a clever insinuation that Bill had some self-esteem issues, a gap between his actual intelligence and what he perceived it to be...but that would be lying. I just liked the idea and couldn't think of a less fancy way to say epitaph.
I see, I respect your truthyness :beer:

Tim Joy

03-29-2009, 07:14 PM

I liked this one from the get go, and I liked the ending, and well.. the whole darn story too. It was a complete portrait of a reformed man.

The thing that grabbed me from the beginning was that you showed us some Backstory right away, so we knew to there was someone missing, and in a way that relates to the story. (boy playing with guns) I really appreciate it that you got to the story right away.

The middle was a little mushy for me. I think when he says that he isn't good with words, I felt that his dialog didn't quite live up to that statement, and the dialog in general could use some trimming, but especially in the middle.

I think you have a great script here, but there's still some extra words/lines that are preventing it from being an excellent script.

One possible example:

EXT. TEXAS PLAINS - DAY
A dusty landscape with rust-red hills on all sides.

How about:

EXT. DUSTY, RED TEXAS VALLEY - DAY

Touching characters, and enjoyable read. Well done!

Rustom Irani

03-30-2009, 05:07 AM

What this script tells me is that you've done your homework on the genre. Which shows in your story.

You've played it safe. Sure!

But nothing beats a classic. And tales of redemption are as old as the genre.

I bet you've got a lot of comments on the dialog's being self-explanatory or giving too much exposition and repetition. A "we see it and the character is telling it" kinda vibe.

But it's what a Campfire tale demands. And this is like a parable and morality play with Bill Hardy telling 'em "gather around me and i shall tell ye'"...

Love the opening scene and the end. Great bookends. The pacing was perfect with the back and forth. I'd flesh out Danny's character a bit more and the first time he meets Bill, I'd make sure he earns the right for Bill to even hear him out.

What i mean is, Bill is such a tough hardass that he wouldn't listen to a punk kid. He'd atleast smell some kinda rat where there isn't one and slap the kid or have him frisked or something.

Nicely done.

All the best.

Sarah Daly

03-30-2009, 06:35 AM

Yeehaanow - glad you liked it! Appreciate the mushy comment - I know what you mean - I have a tendancy to go down that route but I'm trying to keep it in check! :)

And Rustom - thank you! So glad you liked the way i told my story and felt it was informed. I see what you mean about Danny - hadn't thought of that - think I needed to think a bit more about Bill's character generally - he's sort of got good and bad in him but I suppose I never sat down and thought in which aspects of his character these would show.

So thanks! All very useful!

jamiejay

04-01-2009, 12:50 PM

i love the opening scene! it really caught my attention. :)

the dialogue and the bible scene have been covered thoroughly. i also agree that the start was so good that the rest of the story didn't live up to what the start promised.

it has nothing to do with your gender... so, i respectfully disagree about that. it has more to do with the intensity level of the plot. it seemed they convinced him to go home too easily... plus, i wanted him to really have something to be ashamed of... like he accidentally killed the kid, or found out one of the men he killed was innocent, or something... idk. as it is, i couldn't sympathize with his shame because the bad guys all seemed to have it coming to them.

aside from a slight lack of personality in the dialogue, however, i thought your writing (style, mood, description, etc.) was very well done. it was an enjoyable read that was clear and visual.

great work! :)

jamie

Sarah Daly

04-01-2009, 03:00 PM

Hey thanks Jamie - all makes lots of sense - I have been toying with the idea of having the kid take the bullet and ditching the bible - think I'll go for it. You're right - I didn't give him enough to be ashamed of.

And thanks for the kind comments!

arroway

04-06-2009, 06:39 PM

some very nice dialogue here. a lot of it reminded me of Deadwood, sort of a “frontier Shakespearian” thing. I thought him saying “I ain’t so good with words” or whatever, was completely incongruous with the rest of his dialog which seemed the furthest thing from that original statement. I knew what the bible would do immediately. It’s been done so many times I doubt the best storyteller in the world could slide that one past today’s audiences…

“BILL
Promise me you won't make a
living outta killing. Cos it's no
life at all.”

Immediately reminded me of the line in the Outlaw Josey Wales. “Dying ain’t much of a living, boy.”

i appreciate the difference in tone this brought to the fest where a lot of the entries sort of feel the same, have the same kind of demeanor. this one stands out from the crowd.

Chris_Keaton

04-06-2009, 06:52 PM

i appreciate the difference in tone this brought to the fest where a lot of the entries sort of feel the same, have the same kind of demeanor. this one stands out from the crowd.

Sarah can do that.

But really, they're all westerns. A western is a pretty stereotypical genre. Unless they are on another planet. :)