another bad idea from frosh - DIY Citidisk

[frosh]

Against many recommendations I recently picked up a used CitiDisk HD. So far no prolems, but as I have been playng around with it I had an idea, and I'm curious if any other CitiDisk users have been dumb enough (like I will be) to try this...
CitiDisk comes with the Shining Utility Suite which has a special reformat tool to "Create DVDisk." I can't think of a reason this couldn't be used to format any firewire hard drive to act like a CitiDisk. It wouldn't have any of the buttons, but if you then used the Firmware Upload Utilty to modify the settings so that it automatically stops and starts, I would think that it shouldn't have any problems. This would enable you to use any size hard drive, and possibly even get one that is a bit more rugged.
The only other thing I wish I could figure out is how to convince the CitiDisk that NTFS isn't the devil...

[frosh]

perhaps something like this...
http://www.amazon.com/LaCie-301371-All-Terrain-FireWire-Portable/dp/B0018B5CA8

[miloca]

Frosh,

good luck with that and it makes a lot of sense what you are saying, unfortunately don't have any idea in this subject, but 'd love to see the results.

Cheers,

CCC

[sek0910]

If you are trying to convert a plain old HD into a smart device that can actually convert an incoming audio/video stream into mpeg, or avi, etc., I really don't think it would work without some additional hardware (e.g., a small computer circuit of some type) to do the conversion and then actually communicate with the hard drive and save the data to it.

Remember, a hard drive is nothing more than a storage device for data generated by some type of computer.

What I don't understand is that if you can purchase an external 3.5" enclosure and a decent sized hard drive for under $100, why does it cost and additional $1000 or more to add the small, dedicated computer circuit that would convert an audio/video signal (firewire) to mpg and then write it to the HD?

[frosh]

What I don't understand is that if you can purchase an external 3.5" enclosure and a decent sized hard drive for under $100, why does it cost and additional $1000 or more to add the small, dedicated computer circuit that would convert an audio/video signal (firewire) to mpg and then write it to the HD?
that's the question that leaves us all searching for a better solution.
in this case though, what i am wondering is if the hvx does most of the thinking for the hd (whether cd or fs) and all it does is grab whatever comes out of the camera. if you use the cd utility to format another drive LIKE it is a cd, would it allow itself to have video dumped on it? if so, it might help workaround the lack of p2/mxf support by giving you tons of extra space on another drive, rather than saving hd space with the more efficient mxf files.

[drk3p]

you need to be able to tell the HD when to record, when to stop, how to compile the footage, how to name the footage ect.

[frosh]

drk3p, that's precisely what makes me interested in the citidisk platform. all that is setup through the firmware uploader utility. after that all you do is turn on the CD and let it sync up, then it is pretty much just takes in whatever the hvx spits at it (albeit in a very limited number of formats). i'm not saying that it will work, in fact it seems unlikely. but i am trying to figure out WHY it wouldn't work. i am pretty sure that the only way to be certain is to bite the bullet and give it a go. i will stop speculating and post something after i try it. i just wanted to bounce some ideas around to see if anyone else has tried this using the citidisk utilities.

[Jason Miller]

why not bite the bullet, its not like you'll lose anything, if it doesn't work, then you simply reformat the drive and use it for data storage its not like it can ruin the external drive.

[Texanite]

you need to be able to tell the HD when to record, when to stop, how to compile the footage, how to name the footage ect.


drk3p, that's precisely what makes me interested in the citidisk platform. all that is setup through the firmware uploader utility.

But the "firmware uploader utility" must be devised to upload a specific firmware to some kind of electronics. Are you saying that the "firmware uploader utility" uploads firmware onto a hard drive? It seems like it would be uploading firmware to a chip that's in the citidisk controller electronics, not to the hard drive itself.

I should note that I've never even heard of citidisk before this thread, and I had to look it up, but I find it hard to believe that the "firmware uploader utility" somehow programs the hard-drive itself into becoming a DVR.

[Barry_Green]

Try it if you want, but there's no chance this is going to work.

Firewire works with two protocols, streaming video (AV/C) and data: serial bus protocol 2 (SBP2). Hard drives work with SBP2. Video devices use AV/C. The HVX is a video device. The hard drive is an SBP2 device.

The electronics in a FireStore or CitiDisk translate AV/C streaming information into SBP2 and write that to the hard disk. An external hard disk has no way to understand AV/C.

[timbook2]

correct Barry ! The only option I found so far are some italians who modify a FS 100 to be hot swappable with sata discs, which I will get soon!

http://www.hdrevolutionstore.com/

[vite74]

hello, maybe it can't works but how about to use a conveter FIREWIRE to USB2.0 and than use a pda for recording?

http://gizmodo.com/archives/pixela-pixuvcdu1w-firewire-to-usb-20-bridge-cable-016285.php

cheers.

[frosh]

thanks for the explanation barry (is this the part where i gush about how barry responded to one of MY stupid ideas? ;) . sorry i muddied the water with yet another "why can't i just use this cheap hd" thread. ironically, i only did it because i had never read your explanation of av/c v sbp2 (which finally made everything make sense), which is probably because it has been posted in other threads that i got tired of reading because everyone always wants to try this, and they usually ask the same questions the last 20 guys did and it never works. i had noticed that no one had ever discussed trying the citidisk method, so i thought i would try it out. as you pointed out, it really didn't work, i just couldn't explain why.
as for the citidisk, i can't remember if it was barry or one of the other mods who said early on, "it would be great... if it worked." this seems to be true. i haven't had any major disasters, but i haven't (and probably won't) use it for anything critical. it is a toy and an offload drive.