PDA

View Full Version : Thinking of a new battery package



Jan_Crittenden
03-18-2009, 10:33 AM
Hi,

I would like some input. We are all familiar with the Lithium Batteries and the transportation of those and they are also expensive. So I am conducting a little test this morning with the Anton Bauer Hytron-50. I put the camera into Loop record in AVC-Intra100, have the LCD open, the VF on and it just lasted for 2 hours and 56 minutes. So I know the Dionic 90 lasts about 4.5 hours, but it costs about twice as much.

So here's the question, would a package of 2 Hytron-50 batteries and a Titan charger/AC Adapter which would come in much cheaper be of interest? With 2 batteries you would get a little more time than one Dionic but you could pack your camera case and put it on the airline, no worries.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Jan

Big Brother
03-18-2009, 10:53 AM
LiOn batts 130w comes around $270 with power tap charger $160 or much lesser so no Anton bauer battery system are in much craze anymore. More over most of us have our old batteries mostly with AB Gold mounts can always continue with them & can purchase relevant battery system as & when required. Moreover Anton batts arent cheap for purchase. I guess for event shooters the Hytron or dionic 50/90 type batts will be useless as they wont last long when used with Batt light like UL2 from Anton etc. Also the camera needs bit heavy battery to counter balance the whole camcorder. I guess panasonic shouldn't be engaging in passive promotion of Anton bauer products it will nice if same energy be utilized for giving us decently priced P2 cards :)

I have never had any problems with carrying Lion batts .. I have 130W & 190W batts of AB type mounts. never had any security hassle.

yes for new package offers non Anton bauer battery systems would be cheaper & more affordable.

my opinion based out of

http://globalmediapro.com/dc/C038/Professional-Video/Batteries-and-Power/Mount-AB/Batteries/

http://globalmediapro.com/dp/A00UW5/Globalmediapro-SCA2A-2-channel-Charger-AC-Adaptor/

and many more such sites which offer good batts systems.

also much cheaper battery charger @ 50$

http://www.globalmediapro.com/dp/A00RE9/Globalmediapro-SC1-1-channel-Mini-Charger/

Jan_Crittenden
03-18-2009, 11:01 AM
Actually I like the AB batteries for a number of reasons, the primary one being that they pass the drop test. When you drop a battery, and batteries get dropped all the time, they are virtually immune to it, others are not so resiliant. I am not interested in starting a newrelationship with a different battery company, the question is strictly about the Anton Bauer package.

If you want different batteries, your dealer probably has a relationship there or if already have batteries then this question isn't for you, it really is about using the nickle metal hydride batteries vs the Lithium Ion.

Best,

jan

Big Brother
03-18-2009, 11:11 AM
Hi,

I would like some input. We are all familiar with the Lithium Batteries and the transportation of those and they are also expensive. So I am conducting a little test this morning with the Anton Bauer Hytron-50. I put the camera into Loop record in AVC-Intra100, have the LCD open, the VF on and it just lasted for 2 hours and 56 minutes. So I know the Dionic 90 lasts about 4.5 hours, but it costs about twice as much.

So here's the question, would a package of 2 Hytron-50 batteries and a Titan charger/AC Adapter which would come in much cheaper be of interest? With 2 batteries you would get a little more time than one Dionic but you could pack your camera case and put it on the airline, no worries.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Jan


Hi, Your question mentions about a cheaper batt system so i thought i can suggest a more cheaper battery system, more over if we save on the batt system then we can invest more in the extortionately priced P2 cards :Drogar-Smoke(DBG):

Moreover its no more the dealers or camera manufacturers who can dictate or suggest any particular batt system as now we have so many choices & at much better prices. May be for some yes they might drop batts while operating but it is not the way one can decide about using any particular brand of batt.

I remember i was with a Panasonic engineer few days back for HPX300 demo & was casually asking him how durable is a P2 card will it last if we drop it a lot times...his reply was a simple question as to how many times have i dropped a tape since my usage... i thought to myself very countable number of times so i dont think we are dropping batteries so frequently that we even think of any drop tested expensive battery. i havent done any recce on drop test on other batt system may be they too have some test in line for such their marketing effort.

Today any purchaser will evaluate cost to investment for various options of any particular product. We dont have any option for HPX300 kind of camera so we remain shut on its prices, we dont have YET a cheaper P2 card from other company but Panasonic or EQUALLY priced FUJI cards. May be panny considers lowering its license prices then may be get cheaper p2 cards from other companies as well.

Today we have other comparable option to P2 card as a C-D XDR/Nano recorder but they lack in 10bit recording ... a long debate is going on its equivalence is on in other thread. The day we have C-D offering us 10bit @ 160mbps kind of recording I am sure no one will think on investing into P2 cards (rather then just keeping a few in camcorder in loop recording mode). AB batts were good when its were only them but now we have so many other brands that we can risk on not buying any drop tested battery. Moreover Panasonic's or your personal liking can not be everyones liking. As its business for panasonic but for users its a question of their hard earned money well spent or not.

NiMh batts are not used so much these days cox their heavy weight. We have almost all manufacturers offering us Lion light weight batts.

Jan_Crittenden
03-18-2009, 11:13 AM
My post mentions a cheaper Anton Bauer System. That is what I was looking for input on.

Thanks,

Jan

Big Brother
03-18-2009, 11:28 AM
I am sure most of users dont mainly concentrate on AB batts systems so your Q wont be of any important relevance for most users out here. users find so many options over the Anton batts

1. Light Weight
2. Better or say correct pricing
3. Better availability
4. More power upto 190W these days

more can certainly be explored by other users.

Thx

Jan_Crittenden
03-18-2009, 11:39 AM
I remember i was with a Panasonic engineer few days back for HPX300 demo & was casually asking him how durable is a P2 card will it last if we drop it a lot times...his reply was a simple question as to how many times have i dropped a tape since my usage...

If you had asked me and I was standing next to you, I would have turned to a counter near by and taken the P2 card and with all the muster I have slapped it against the counter about 6-7 times. Then I would have dropped it to the ground and stomped on it, and if I had a wall to throw it against I would have done that as well. Then I would have picked up the card and put it in the machine and have it play. And it would just as it alwys has.



NiMh batts are not used so much these days cox their heavy weight. We have almost all manufacturers offering us Lion light weight batts.

I recognize the NIMH batteries are heavier but unlike the LION, they can go into the cargo hold on a plane in quantity. See the FAA regulations about Lion Batteries. The Lion Batteries also are about twice the price. And for the actual usage, I am going with the information that the manufacturer has given me, they still sell quite a few of the NIMH batteries. So maybe not in your part of the world, but the are going somewhere.

Now back to the question is there interest in a less expensive NIMH Anton Bauer Package.

Thanks,

Jan

Jason Stewart
03-18-2009, 12:14 PM
I would definitly be interested in a cheaper battery package. I find that it would be very convenient to have a turnkey package that you can buy, unpack, charge, and shoot; especially since for many, this will be their first full size camera purchase that requires these types of battery systems. (ie,when upgrading from HVX200s or the like.) It will take the guesswork out of it and simplify the process. Then, if the user needs more or different batteries, they can make their choice from there.

A less expensive package of two batteries that each last almost 3 hours, ac, and charger... count me in. I like that NIMH batteries would be easier to handle when traveling. A little extra weight on the shoulder wouldn't bother me much especially compared to some other back breaking setups I've used in the past.

How would the package come? Shipped with the camera through panasonic, or through Anton Bauer or something else?

Jim Carswell
03-18-2009, 12:17 PM
Jan,
I think this could be a viable option. Personally I have a bunch of IDX Enduras left over from my Beta SX camera that are waiting for the arrival of the HPX300. However, the Anton Bauer Hytron-50 seems like a good alternative. They are cheap. And, as you have pointed out, avoid the FAA/TSA issues when flying.
Jim

Jan_Crittenden
03-18-2009, 12:30 PM
Hi,

I am trying to structure the deal with AB right now so I may not be able to offer it for a month or so, but it would ship seperately from two different warehouses to your dealer, the camera coming directly from Japan and the batteries coming from SantaFe Springs. Ultimately I want to offer a package that has a carry case, batteries, and a tripod plate. Not sure I can do that until the summer though.

Thanks, for the feedback.

Best,

Jan

Jan_Crittenden
03-18-2009, 12:39 PM
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the feedback.

Best,

Jan

Kenn Christenson
03-18-2009, 01:11 PM
Sounds like a good package, to me. Maybe have a package with a P2 card(s), as well.

Cees Mutsaers
03-18-2009, 01:40 PM
Can you please explain what the FAA/TSA issues mean?


Jan,
I think this could be a viable option. Personally I have a bunch of IDX Enduras left over from my Beta SX camera that are waiting for the arrival of the HPX300. However, the Anton Bauer Hytron-50 seems like a good alternative. They are cheap. And, as you have pointed out, avoid the FAA/TSA issues when flying.
Jim

Jan_Crittenden
03-18-2009, 01:53 PM
It basically means that you cannot put the Lion Batteries in the cargo area, they can be taken on board into the passenger area and you cannot carry more than 27 grams of Lithium, which equates to about 2 1/2 Dionic 90s. And then who want to carry on batteries? Being rhetorical here.

I think if you do a google search on FAA/TSA and Litium you would find the rules would make your head swim, give up and rent batteries when you get there. But the Htron is a solid performer and they seem to last much longer. I just brought one back to life that had not been charged in 2 years and all I had to do was put it on the charger.

Thanks for chipping in on the conversation everyone.

Best,

Jan

kabtv
03-18-2009, 04:20 PM
Equivalent Lithium Content (ELC). ELC is a measure by which lithium ion batteries are classified. 8 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 100 watt-hours. 25 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 300 watt-hours. You can arrive at the number of watt-hours your battery provides if you know how many milliamp hours and volts your battery provides: mAh/1000 x V = wh

See here: http://safetravel.dot.gov/definitions.html#elc

Christian m
03-18-2009, 04:32 PM
A battery, cam plate deal would be a good thing. My experience with pro battery systems are only through other users, not my own experience. I'll probably go with the AB option anyway, but the dealers here i Norway both offer AB and IDX in the packages. Although summer is to late for me:)

Bag often must be choosed by purpose, or that's the case for me.

According to IDX, http://www.video4.no/pdfs/IATA_Regulations_2009_IMPORTANT_CHANGES.pdf, the limit now are set to 160wh not how many grams lithium.

BTW Big Brother, a lithium ion that can take a pounding and are tested for this might be a VERY good reason to buy over another. Lithium ion batteries can be extremely dangerous if abused or handled, hypothetically you don't want a battery to short mid air due to cheap and poor engineering. Yes I am a bit paranoid some time, that's how you get when skiing in avalanche exposed terrain, doing freeride mtb and so on...safety conscious at all times...

kabtv
03-18-2009, 05:20 PM
i will go with two Dionic 90(three will be perfect), more expensive i know but no more worry when shooting out of town in a film festival, ten hours-day and using camera light all day and night long... :)

puredrifting
03-18-2009, 07:40 PM
Jan:

Not sure if you have seen these but I have spoken to some users who have had very good performance from them and the package is inexpensive.

http://www.batteries4broadcast.com/index.htm

AB is obviously great, I used to use them on my Betacam but I do feel that they are grossly overpriced, especially the chargers. I used to use an AB charger that retailed for $4,000.00

$4,000.00 for a battery charger? Ridiculous.

Dan

Christian m
03-18-2009, 08:14 PM
Looking at the specs the max load are almost twice for AB than it is for Batteries 4 Broadcast. So if you are planning to use a powerfull light, but not for long runtimes you can get away with Dionic90 vs needing the next largest of largest B4B pack and then the savings are not to large, at least on the batteries.

The Chargers perfor about the same regarding recharge time, but the AB is about 500$ more expensive for a dual charger....

Justyn
03-18-2009, 08:30 PM
Dan.. A buddy of mine uses those and loves them and might be a nicer pricepoint since the cam is such a deal. Would be hard to have a 8500 dollar cam and a 2500 battery solution. Its obviously not the same power requirements of the HVX or such, but its in such a comperable price point that expensive accessories might be a detractor.


Jan.. thanks so much for bringing this up in the forum and soliciting opinions. One thing I personally love is the Tekkeon batteries. Probably woudn't work for long on this cam but it does supply 18 watts.. I simply love it for so many things and it would certainly be able to handle a light for a good half day and at a 100 bucks getting several of them is not that much of a nut to crack.

Kenn Christenson
03-18-2009, 08:35 PM
I'm going "Batteries4Brpadcast" unless I can get a killer package deal, somewhere.:thumbsup:

Steve Eisen
03-18-2009, 08:36 PM
Sorry to go of topic here. Here is another alternative.
http://www.anjibatteries.com/ or http://www.videotechsupply.com (new name)
I've been using them for two years now after the majority of my Dionic 90s died on me. They are offering 10% off using code NAB2009

puredrifting
03-18-2009, 09:12 PM
Looking at the specs the max load are almost twice for AB than it is for Batteries 4 Broadcast. So if you are planning to use a powerfull light, but not for long runtimes you can get away with Dionic90 vs needing the next largest of largest B4B pack and then the savings are not to large, at least on the batteries.

Probably only relevant for news, wedding and event shooters, wouldn't apply to me. I have used one on-camera light in the past five years, it was for a piece for the latest DVD release of Breakfast at Tiffanys and we setup a cocktail party with the cast and shot them news style. Rented a LitePanels Mini, but those have their own battery attached to them.

Good math though.

Dan

CinemaElectronika
03-18-2009, 09:33 PM
Batteries4Broadcast!

Extremely reliable batteries.

I've been using them with my Panasonic BT-LH80W monitor flawlessly!

1.5Lb each.

For the HPX300 we would need no more than this package:

Two (2) V-Mount Style 90Wh Batteries @$235 + One (1) 1CH On Camera Charger/Power Supply @$360 LESS 10% OFF Discount = $747.

Just add taxes & shipping charges.

Two (2) V-Mount Style 90Wh Batteries = 15.84g Lithium Content.

Henry
:)

Christian m
03-18-2009, 10:02 PM
Probably only relevant for news, wedding and event shooters, wouldn't apply to me. I have used one on-camera light in the past five years, it was for a piece for the latest DVD release of Breakfast at Tiffanys and we setup a cocktail party with the cast and shot them news style. Rented a LitePanels Mini, but those have their own battery attached to them.

Good math though.

Dan

That's probably right, just a thought. I do events to a certain extent so it might be a better setup with AB with a good deal from my dealer.

Anyone know how these B4B batteries perform in more extreme conditions? I have to take into consideration that temperatures some working days are as low as -30celcius.

CinemaElectronika
03-18-2009, 10:26 PM
That's probably right, just a thought. I do events to a certain extent so it might be a better setup with AB with a good deal from my dealer.

Anyone know how these B4B batteries perform in more extreme conditions? I have to take into consideration that temperatures some working days are as low as -30celcius.

Suggested operating temp: -20C~ +55C

Same as for Anton Bauer Dionic 90

H.

Jan_Crittenden
03-19-2009, 03:24 AM
Guys,

I know there are lots of options out there, I am not intereseted in those options as I am not trying to establish a new relationship with another battery manufacturer. I am only interesed in the Anton Bauer solution that I have. It is way too much work to bring another manufacturer in to sell a couple of batteries, especially if it is something that has to be "sold" over an Anton Bauer. THw solutions that I am able to work with are from AB. You can buy anthing you want but I am just trying to make the most attractive package with the best price/performance ration that I can within the confines of my venue.

So I am sure all of these suggestions are great, and everyone can look at the many options. I have decided to try and put together a package that has 2 AB Hytron50s and a Tandem70 AC Adapter/Charger. I think it will be a nice combination in today's market and with this camera.

Thanks,

Jan

Hope that

puredrifting
03-19-2009, 05:15 AM
Jan:

Knowing that the ABs are overall probably better quality, do you have an anticipated price target for the AB package? I would pay more for AB than these other solutions if the price was in the realm of reality for me.

Thanks for putting this together.

Dan

Terry Nixon
03-19-2009, 10:16 AM
Hi Jan,

from my prospective, the Hytrons are not as appealing to our customers as the Dionic 90s.

We'll sell 20 or more Dionic 90s for every Hytron sold.

The Hytron package would be more appealing to new customers with no past Anton Bauer purchases who are looking to get their foot in the door with a camera package.

Terry





Hi,

I would like some input. We are all familiar with the Lithium Batteries and the transportation of those and they are also expensive. So I am conducting a little test this morning with the Anton Bauer Hytron-50. I put the camera into Loop record in AVC-Intra100, have the LCD open, the VF on and it just lasted for 2 hours and 56 minutes. So I know the Dionic 90 lasts about 4.5 hours, but it costs about twice as much.

So here's the question, would a package of 2 Hytron-50 batteries and a Titan charger/AC Adapter which would come in much cheaper be of interest? With 2 batteries you would get a little more time than one Dionic but you could pack your camera case and put it on the airline, no worries.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Jan

monkeyking
03-19-2009, 11:22 AM
I use/own several AB Dionic 90's and purchased a big fat AB Hytron 140 NiMh batt specifically for air travel. I think there may be a resurgence in Hytron usage because of FAA regulations regarding Lithium Ion batts.

Jan_Crittenden
03-19-2009, 01:27 PM
Hi Jan,

from my prospective, the Hytrons are not as appealing to our customers as the Dionic 90s.

We'll sell 20 or more Dionic 90s for every Hytron sold.

The Hytron package would be more appealing to new customers with no past Anton Bauer purchases who are looking to get their foot in the door with a camera package.

Hi Terry,

We have AB Packages for the Dionic and for some customers, you are right they have more appeal. but new customers, and if you think about the HPX300, a good majority of the people coming to this camera have not held a larger camera in a long time, perhaps, or they have nothing but small cameras, so yes they are new. I canget a package that will give the customer about an hour more of total time for about $100 less than the single Dionic Battery package. That single Dionic is $1046, I just got my pricing in from Anton and this package should be able to list at $950. That gives 2 batteries and the Tandem Charger/AC Adapter. I think it is a pretty good deal.

Best,

Jan

dregenthal
03-19-2009, 08:54 PM
Jan- thanks for this and all that you do.

Capt Quirk
03-19-2009, 09:13 PM
I'll give Anton Bauer a huge shout of confidence. Sure, they cost a lot, but I have had very few problems with them. And what really won me over? When I did have a problem I called them up. An American answered the phone on the second ring, discussed my issue, and asked me to send the kit in. They cleaned it, updated it, and got it back to me in no time at all... and didn't charge me a nickle, even though I had owned it for over 12 months. I wish I could name one other company I have ever dealt with that was as good as them. Well, AMD was at one time.

Cees Mutsaers
06-16-2009, 02:24 PM
This 950 dollar package is avaialable where/by whom?



Hi Terry,

We have AB Packages for the Dionic and for some customers, you are right they have more appeal. but new customers, and if you think about the HPX300, a good majority of the people coming to this camera have not held a larger camera in a long time, perhaps, or they have nothing but small cameras, so yes they are new. I canget a package that will give the customer about an hour more of total time for about $100 less than the single Dionic Battery package. That single Dionic is $1046, I just got my pricing in from Anton and this package should be able to list at $950. That gives 2 batteries and the Tandem Charger/AC Adapter. I think it is a pretty good deal.

Best,

Jan

Jan_Crittenden
06-16-2009, 07:29 PM
This 950 dollar package is avaialable where/by whom?

Hi Cees, I did this as a US Package. Sorry, I have an old buddy at Anton Bauer and one evening over dinner we were talking about the hassles of air travel and the Litium Ions, and it was eureka moment when I saw the opportunity for the low power consumption of the HPX and the Hytron 50s. So check in with your Pana folks in your area and see it they can put together the same thing, send them on to me if you wish. I think we all buy from the same guys.

Best,

Jan

ThunderousProductions
06-16-2009, 09:02 PM
If your rolling with V-mount http://www.globalmediapro.com/dp/A01D93/Globalmediapro-Li190S-Lithium-ion-Battery-190WH/ 190WH for ultra cheap and the chargers cheap too but still good quality. Great batteries from people's reviews with all kinds of cameras including the RED cinema camera.

Cees Mutsaers
06-17-2009, 03:04 AM
But if I am visiting NY for some days this summer to buy stuff like batteries, P2 cards etc. (US $ is still low for us europeans ) where can I buy this package or does it only go together with the HPX300 ?



Hi Cees, I did this as a US Package. Sorry, I have an old buddy at Anton Bauer and one evening over dinner we were talking about the hassles of air travel and the Litium Ions, and it was eureka moment when I saw the opportunity for the low power consumption of the HPX and the Hytron 50s. So check in with your Pana folks in your area and see it they can put together the same thing, send them on to me if you wish. I think we all buy from the same guys.

Best,

Jan

Jan_Crittenden
06-17-2009, 04:33 AM
Any of our Authorized dealers should have it, some stock like Abel and B & H, maybe Spec-Comm, but I think the safe thing to do is to call ahead and let them know you are coming so they can be sure to have it waiting for you.

Best,

Jan

Erik Olson
06-18-2009, 05:36 PM
We put together a 3x Dionic 90 / 1x Hytron 140 package for our 300 kit with a single position Titan70 that travels in the bag. Most often, we're playing with a bunch of other VariCams and HDX900 packages and will jump onto their 4-position chargers once we settle into the larger camera departments. The Titan70 also provides a power mains directly to the camera to get you off the Dionic/Hytrons for longer studio work / interview days.

e