Two Smoking Barrels [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

RodThompson

03-25-2009, 12:18 AM

I read this after reading the epic that was Lawrie's Convenant, so it was a good contrast.

SPOILERS: (HIGHLIGHT)

Overall, I think that the "this isn't really happening" thing is very overused. While I'd like to say that the end was fresh and a cool twist, I think it should have ended with Ken just dying.

Now, on that note. You have a lot going on this piece. You introduce Lightning early on, wearing black, which leads me to think he's the antagonist, but then he leaves until he magically reappears to kill someone in the end. This character could be omitted completely in lieu of one of Tex's men getting off one last shot, or something. Also cliche, but better than a character that no one cares about.

Tex and his gang. To be what the ending reveals, this whole story of his brother and the town and the sherriff really is confusing. Is this some gnarly RP thing that's going on? I mean, for what the end becomes, a story line at all is a bit much. And being that, why didn't our two main characters just blow Tex away the second he came into the bar. See where I'm going with this. Every action and dialogue in the script becomes moot the second Ken dies...well, in the moments after anyway.

I say take Lightning out, and change the ending and you've got a gnarly Western.

DarkElastic

03-25-2009, 06:56 AM

Thanks for the read Rod

SPOILERS

Westerns are not really my thing, so I have adjusted it a little to mix with something more my cup of tea. I am normally not a fan of the 'this is not real thing' but it works for me on this genre.

With regards to it being just a plane western, then yes Lightning has no place in the story, but to make the ending work the way I wanted it to I needed to introduce Lightning for a couple of reasons; 1. To create an early confrontation and make you wonder why a gunslinger with a reputation has backed down to a nobody, 2. To give the old cheating computer ending (like I used to get from the old consoles Mastersystem, Megadrive, SNES) where he comes back from nowhere and kills Ken. This is a simulation and thus the programmers want you to get the most out of it, which involves experiencing the simu-death.
If they just killed Tex then they would have wasted all the money they have spent. Challenging one gunslinger is one thing (you may survive), but shooting a man and subsequently getting gunned down by the gang is another. The story of the brother and Tex is just for the show, something for the participants to get involved in and they do.

conlanforever

03-25-2009, 01:21 PM

Your scenes are described very well and you set up some good visuals.
I didn't feel connected to the characters, so it didn't really matter to me who lived or who died, so that took some impact away from it for me.

I like the barman on the roof top that collapses, good visual. Lots of good old fashioned gun fighting, I enjoyed that.

Like you stated yourself I'm not a big fan of 'this is not the real thing' scenarios, but it explained a lot as to what the characters motivations (or lack thereof) were in the story. So it definitely accomplished that. Makes me think of Westworld with Yul Brennar.

Nice work! Lightning Bell gets the prize so far for best gunslinger name :)

krestofre

03-25-2009, 01:44 PM

***SPOILERS***

The attitudes of the two main characters clued me in to this not being reality very early in the script, so I spent the rest of the time waiting for the punchline. Perhaps conlanforever put his finger on it for me when he said Westworld. I've been waiting this whole fest for someone to do a story like that, so perhaps I was "looking for it" more than most would.

After they get out of the game I thought the dialog got a little stiff. It didn't sound like the kind of conversation two guys would have after a game. I'm thinking about some of the responses I've seen from my friends over Xbox, and something infinitely more real would garner more reaction than "worth three month's salary."

Thanks for the read!

lawriejaffa

03-25-2009, 01:55 PM

Yep not much further to add than these gentlmen already. Its an amusing and quirky tale that is much like a digital Westworld for a new era hehe and thats not a bad thing either!

I quite like the action - and the twist ending does work and fit in with the characterisations of your game's players. I'd agree with the sentiment that we need a little more adolescence in the guys post game discussion hehe 'Yah that bandit powned your ass!' haha

Mark C

03-25-2009, 03:36 PM

Great Story!

It was sort of a cross between Total Recall and, like others have mentioned, Westworld. Nice twist at the end. My only note is that I think you may want to take advantage of the perfect set up for a double twist that you have in there. It might be kinda cool if when Ken woke up, Henry was really dead. Possibly from some trouble he was having in real life from the guy playing Lightning in the game. Plus it would help solidify the motivation and reason for the conflict we see go down at the bar and jail. It's still super awesome as is but just a few thoughts for fun!

Sarah Daly

03-25-2009, 04:01 PM

Hey - yeah I really liked this - the fact that it was such a western by numbers really worked, and even more so when we figure out that this is like a 'hol-o-deck' version (nerd alert). I do think there's a little unnecessary or forced exposition at the end - once we get it, we get it - no need to say how many months wages the experience cost. Otherwise though, a really fluid, action-packed joy ride of a script. Very impressive and a great first read!

Blaine

03-25-2009, 04:30 PM

Not a big fan of this one. The ending left me with the feeling that Bobby Ewing just stepped out of the shower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Ewing#Patrick_Duffy_leaves_and_returns). It would have been worse, of course, if you'd given me characters I cared about. Unfortunately, I found no one in here to cheer for.

I found your scene descriptions a bit tedious reading and feel you would be well served tightening them up. You spent too much time on the farmer, who didn't really have a purpose other than set dressing. And a briefer description of the other "extras" in the saloon would have sufficed as well.

DarkElastic

03-25-2009, 04:44 PM

Oh well, you can't win with everyone. Thanks for reading anyway Baine.

I don't really understand what you are asking me to do with my scene headings, you are too brief for me to benefit from your comments.
The prupose of the character descriptions was to set the scene of a standard saloon in a standard western, with standard characters, without being too obvious in my statement.

Blaine

03-25-2009, 05:07 PM

I don't really understand what you are asking me to do with my scene headings, you are too brief for me to benefit from your comments.
The prupose of the character descriptions was to set the scene of a standard saloon in a standard western, with standard characters, without being too obvious in my statement.Actually, I wasn't talking about the Scene Headings but rather the action line describing the scene. I was just about to quote your opening description with a suggested alternative when I saw that it was as long as it felt. That may have been a result of your phraseology. When I originally read it, it felt like a lot of detail but I see it isn't that much...SO...you can disregard that portion of the critique. :beer:

Perhaps what I'm thinking about was the amount of time devoted to Lightning Bell, then he disappears for the rest of the story, until the end. He was actually the most interesting character in the story.

DarkElastic

03-25-2009, 05:10 PM

Once again Baine, thanks for reading and reviewing mate.

TimCollins

03-25-2009, 09:20 PM

Hey, so I really liked this one UNTIL the end.

First the good: I liked the action alot and your descriptions of it. Also, the dialogue worked well for me (again, until the very end). The name Lightning Bell was great, props for that one. Also, kudos for using the word Sarsaparilla.

The thing that got me was the ending - it was sort of a let down. It was surprising, yes, but not so much in a good way. Having read the ending, the rest of the story seems a bit far fetched. I know if I was in a game simulator with guns on my belt and an old western bar full of people, I sure wouldn't sit there and wait for trouble to come to me, I'd start making some trouble! It's like Grand Theft Auto, people don't wait around and obey the laws until someone starts trouble with them.

Also in a similar note, when Ken is freaking out that Henry has died, that's a bit out of context for being in a game. Unless this is the type of game that makes you really believe you're there and everything is happening. But in that case, they might not have been talking so tough and fearless at the bar.

I think the ending would've worked better if perhaps Ken saw that Henry had died and just shrugged it off. That would make me think "Wow, he doesn't even care about his friend dying, what a heartless bastard". But when the ending comes around, I would look back at it and understand why he didn't care.

Despite my problem with the ending, I thought it was well written, entertaining, and you did a good job with it.

Keth Andril

03-25-2009, 09:43 PM

I agree with Tim. I enjoyed the script, but I think it would've been better to juts end it without doing the whole the whole simulation thing. The simulation ending, much like the dream sequence ending, is just a big screw you to the audience. However, It was well written and I did enjoy it immensely.

seansshack

03-26-2009, 02:15 AM

I would drop the scene numbering - really just a matter of style. But I treat everything I write as a spec script, not a shooting script (until it becomes so).

I would split the action scenes to individual shots - makes for longer page length but easier to read and really makes your script flow better:

example:

A loner, LIGHTNING BELL, early 40’s, wears a black shirt,
brown trousers and holds his hat in one hand, stands against
the bar. He drains his glass of whiskey and slams it onto
the bar. Before he can demand a refill, the BARMAN, late
50s, wears a dirty white apron, has filled it again.
Lightning sniggers and lifts the glass to his lips.

would be:

A loner, LIGHTNING BELL, early 40’s, wears a black shirt,
brown trousers and holds his hat in one hand, stands against
the bar.

He drains his glass of whiskey and slams it onto
the bar.

Before he can demand a refill, the BARMAN, late
50s, wears a dirty white apron, has filled it again.

Lightning sniggers and lifts the glass to his lips.

Anywhere a shot changes I would make it a new paragraph. Again just preference.

This would also help fix the issue I have with some of the descriptions being much more descriptive i.e. long example page 3.

As I finished this I browsed other comments here and I disagree. I think the ending is the best part. You don't see it coming and believe these days that is a hard thing to pull off, especially in 10 pages.

I liked the whole Westworld meets Matrix mix of genres - sorry for comparing to other movies, but just read a review of my own piece and the theme as stuck my head for this review. Actually 'ang on. To be fair it's good to be compared to strong caliber films like these - so I think that's a good thing.

I would tighten the script up. Split shots. Less description (get rid of none needed wording - take each sentence and read it aloud than write it again - you will find you CAN make it more efficient and easier to read.

+ focus on the characters. I needed to care more so I think they need more dept or something to identify with (I know the space is limited but.....)

Sorry if my critique is long winded. But have spent a few weeks in writers boot camp and been rewriting + writing work for competitions and a few producers.

Good story.

DarkElastic

03-26-2009, 06:49 AM

Thanks for you reaviews guys.

Yes Tim I agree it would make you wonder if Ken shrugged off Henry's, but this is his best friend and it is that real (or simulates reallness that well) that he is taken back by his friend's brains exploding from his head. But I do understand where you are coming from.

Thank you for reading and reviewing Keth.

Yes Sean I will be taking your critique into my next project and I will do my best to tighten things up, but in this it did all come to the page limit. You find yourself squashing what matches together in the hope of keeping under the 10 pages, but when I write my next one (which does not have a page limit as such) then I will try to have a paragraph per change in shot. Thank you for your help.

I know people are asking for more depth to the characters so they could relate to them. I just found it hard to give more about them without spoiling the ending. I was hoping their friendship would be enough, but I suppose that would need more expansion.

I love the fact that this ending is dividing people. I normally don't do the old 'it was all a lie' ending, but I do love Westworld and I thought if I gave you enough to think that Ken and Henry were out of place then it would make you think 'well the clues were there.'

seansshack

03-26-2009, 07:28 AM

"I love the fact that this ending is dividing people."

I agree. It of opens a debate, it's fine work in my book.:)

Tormod

03-26-2009, 07:53 AM

I love movies with almost all action, and not that much "backstory". I really liked the twist at the end, and I did not see it coming. I agree with some of the stuff that`s said here.

Number one, I think the script would benefit if you introduce the brothers before lightning. I thought lightning was the protagonist at the beginning, then got confused when you followed the brothers.

Two, I agree with the action lines that you could have tightened them up a bit. We don`t really have to know what all the guys in the bar are wearing and doing specificly. For example

Two men enter the bar via the swinging doors, HENRY CHANDLER and KEN HOXIE, Both late 20`s, and both wear cowboy hats, chaps, spurs and two guns in holster upon their belt.

this could easily be told by saying
Two young cowboys, Henry Chandler and Ken Hoxie, enter the bar.

My point is, the clothes are really not essencial to the story, so you don`t have to explain everything. :)

But I found it really entertaining and I loved the action sequenses.
I love when people explain things with

"As a hole is blown into his face, and his brains spray out from the back of his skull"

I love it!

Noel Evans

03-26-2009, 04:17 PM

lawriejaffa

03-26-2009, 04:33 PM

Hey Noel Welcome to the fest your feedbacks always welcome - i was hoping to read an entry from your's too! This is a bit cheeky as its not my script (though Darkelastic won't mind me asking im sure hehe) do you think edited - with a straight ending it would be better Noel?

NJPage

03-26-2009, 05:22 PM

Ha-ha - the 'twist' ending. The writing was so rich, I don't know if you even needed a gimmicky ending. Lightening Bell was an interesting character from the start though, and it might have worked bringing him in to interact intermittently with the other characters throughout. But then, it would have been a different story... don't mind me... duh!

DarkElastic

03-26-2009, 05:32 PM

This one just kind of passed by for me. The way it was written, with the opening on an "extra", then Lightning and then the young guys, I just wasnt sure who I was supposed to follow. Then when the young guys were talking to the barman about the sherif who had taken Tex's brother into custody I thought maybe it was all a set up for the real hero - the Sherif. Then he dies almost straight away. Good plan Sherif.

Some of the components in the action were good. In fact the best character in the piece for me was actually the barman, throwing molitovs from his roof while it all burns beneath him, awesome.

When I got to the ending it didnt feel like a surprise twist for me, it was more like a feeling of, oh yeah this story, because I have seen similar stories before.

Thanks for asking Lawrie, as I myself don't really know what Noel's problems with the script are, besides the ending, which you've seen many times before.
Please, if you are going to hate a script (which is totally in your right as a free speaking human being) then please help me out by telling me what I can do to imrpove upon my script to make it better in your book - especially from an experienced writer as yourself.
Your review makes it feel like you hate it because it didn't follow the path you wanted, ie the sheriff?!?!
I am glad you liked the Braman...

But, thanks for taking the time to read it and write something...

MrKilloran

03-26-2009, 08:34 PM

I think you need to break up the action instead of having lengthy paragraphs. I understand its tough with the 10 page limit but you could shorten some of the descriptions, cutting out unnecessary details and then break it up to allow your scripts action to flow better.

That said, even if its lengthy, I did like the action. Some very detailed violence.

The ending, not sure what to feel about it. It works as a good twist but the dialogue after sort of kills it for me, it seems stiff. The idea that its a game, I can get into that. Sure its been done before, sure it doesn't hold any emotional weight knowing the deaths are fake, but it was fun.

You have a good start it just needs a few touch ups.

arroway

03-26-2009, 10:53 PM

lots of good action in this and a few cliches...(the brother of an incarcerated bandit vs the sheriff, the perceived weakling ordering sarsaparilla instead of whiskey etc). i think the ending is cool but i don't think it's earned. using the sixth sense as a sort of high point for twists, i think you could add a lot of value by interjecting a few more hints that tie into the twist without giving it away. also, IMO, there were a few too many characters for me and I didn't know who it was I should be rooting for or caring about.

P.S: this piece of description was really, really, well done.

Ken watches the ground beside him. There is a burning piece
of wood with flames dancing before his eyes. A puddle of
blood flows into his view, slowly it moves towards the
flame. A meeting is inevitable, and he watches with
fascination. Suddenly, his vision blurs and blackness creeps
in from the edges until he is plunged into darkness.

Tim Joy

03-27-2009, 08:06 AM

HA HA ! You got me! I always like ending like that, so I'm a sucker. For some reason, I felt disconnected from the action. It didn't really have much of a setup that I bought into in the beginning, and it was very violent, which isn't bad per se... but... mmm Hard to say. Maybe there's a little too much description? I think it slowed me down and there was so much going on that it was hard to follow who was who and what was happening. I think less would be more in this case. Then, maybe a few more clues during the fight, like a "glitch" or something that can signal the end.

Anyway, nice job.

DarkElastic

03-27-2009, 08:11 AM

Thanks for your reviews Mr K, Arroway and NJ. I am glad you all enjoyed reading it.

Action will be my next thing to adjust, so it becomes sharper and easier to read. After the last Fest I have managed to get the formatting improved.

That was my very own conflict Arroway, putting enough in there so you had clues (the two seemingly out of place) without putting too much in there and you guessing what was coming at the end. I just wanted something to nag at you, something that didn't feel write. This also might be why some people havn't liked it. Oh well, what can you do.

I actually didn't see much wrong with the dialogue at the end, but the masses do. I will look to improve on it. Thanks again.

DarkElastic

03-27-2009, 08:20 AM

Thanks for the review YeeHaa.

Yes, the action and description is something I will be working on for my next script.

I didn't want any other clues than the guys being out of place puely because I didn't want people to guess it. I did explore putting in different clues (graphic glitches, programming glitches, etc), but I kept coming back to my same reasoning.

TimCollins

03-27-2009, 08:20 AM

As far as the dialogue at the end I think less would be more there. If after they wake up surrounded by the computers with the electronic head things on - you could just cut to the dialogue at the top of page 10 ("What a game, hey?") and leave out the rest. Because we already get that it's a game so there's no real need to throw in so much talking there, just let the audience process the twist.

On a second reading I don't really mind the ending as much as I had previously thought. Even though it's been done before, it's kinda cool to think of what that game would be like. And the first time through it certainly did fool me! I just think the end dialogue could be shortened up.

Tim Joy

03-27-2009, 08:50 AM

I didn't want any other clues than the guys being out of place puely because I didn't want people to guess it. I did explore putting in different clues (graphic glitches, programming glitches, etc), but I kept coming back to my same reasoning.

I struggled with the same issue with my TwilightFest film Anti de Presence, but found that you really have to hit people over the head for them to guess it, especially when the twist comes out of left field. We were always asking ourselves, "have we gone too far?" and nobody guessed it, (that I'm aware of at least).

Maybe script and movie are different beasts, so while you might guess it from the script, your wouldn't from the movie?

Noel Evans

03-27-2009, 02:11 PM

Please, if you are going to hate a script (which is totally in your right as a free speaking human being) then please help me out by telling me what I can do to imrpove upon my script to make it better in your book -

Didnt hate it at all. The issue for me was I was following a group of characters at the beginning and I wasnt sure whom I should be following. I would get fairly quickly to the protagonist. Set him up as a character I care about, and no that doesnt mean fall in love with. And let whoever else you want to show interact with him with meaning.

As its written now, Im introduced to the protagonist late, and then theres not enough about who he is for me to care at all.

When I care about or connect with the character a twist at the end where he is alive will be more impacting. For me anyway.

DarkElastic

03-27-2009, 03:34 PM

Thank you for clearing that up for me Noel.

lawriejaffa

03-29-2009, 07:04 PM

So Darkelastic what kind of changes are you thinking of making to your script based on the feedback? The sci fi ending has split some folk but i think it works with a few extra 'clues' leading up to it!

Imagine how you could throw people if you had one of the 'players' order a Coca Cola in the pub haha (in fact im sure Kevin Costner did that in Robin Hood.)

DarkElastic

03-29-2009, 07:16 PM

Thanks for asking Lawrie,

Well... You can normally gage what is in need of change from feedback, so the opening is a definate. I need to get to my subject faster and not dilly dally on the extras (they don't deserve the air time). I will also be adding in a few more clues and may change Ken's reaction when Henry is shot. I will read through it again soon.
With regards to the ending... It is split, so I will be keeping it as it is. I will work on the dialogue though and make it more real.
I will also be working throughout my script - and future scripts - to make the action more dynamic and to the point, removing all the clog.

What do you think?

Rustom Irani

03-30-2009, 04:44 AM

This reminded me a lot of Tom Clancy's "NetForce' series. The technological aspect of it, not the premise.

The initial sequences have a tendency for the audience to feel unconcerned about the characters and it's only when you begin the shoot-out that we start having feelings of empathy.

Predictable? Most definitely! But 90% of all Westerns are. It's how you execute the plot that matters.

In relation to the end it makes sense for these two Young guys to enter the arena as such and immediately draw clear battle lines.

A few hints at the twist would have been lovely. That is my only major concern for the plot.

The dialog's are a mixed bag and some work well others are so-so on the nose. Some like the whole explanation of who the bad guy is can be safely edited out.

LOVED THE BARTENDER ON THE ROOF!

That's like the equivalent to a money shot on camera. Flesh him out more.

I like experiments with genre and you've got the skills to pull it off, but I fear you lacked time and a few more pages to polish.

Strike that! You can trim this to a nice 5-7 pages.

All the best.

DarkElastic

03-30-2009, 07:13 AM

Thanks for the review Rustom.

I will take a lot from the Fest again and hopefully my next script will encorporate all the advice I have been given.
I will like to revisit this script after about a month, so my mind is fresh and I will have be ruthless to it.

jamiejay

04-02-2009, 07:41 PM

i really liked the two main characters, though i agree that it was hard to tell who the protagonist was supposed to be in the beginning...there was too much going on at times.

in all, i can see that you are honing your script-writing skills and i thought you have improved since last fest even... glad you entered :)

leepback

04-03-2009, 12:41 AM

Hello DarkElastic,

Some people have suggested the computer cop out at the end has been done before and perhaps it has but I though the death drug thingy was quite clever and to me at least seemed original.

Well done on coming up with that.

I didn't mind the light hearted feel the two young guys had to their banter and maybe this could have been played upon more since they were only in a game. Maybe he could have laughed or something when his friend was shot.

jamiejay

04-03-2009, 01:14 AM

Maybe he could have laughed or something when his friend was shot.

oooh... that is a great idea. it would have been so creepy and out of place that it would have really grabbed my attention. it would have made me happy at the end when i learned it was just a game too.

DarkElastic

04-03-2009, 06:29 AM

Thanks for the reviews Jemiejay and Leepback.

Yes, it has been mentioned before about his reaction to his friend being shot. I agree that it would have probably stood out well and really emphasised the ending. My thoughts, when writing it, was that this simulator is that real looking that seeing your friend killed so brutally, even in a simulation, would upset you in some way.

I am glad you both enjoyed it. Thanks for reading.