Anyone willing to list their TOP TEN Lossfest Films?

[TiJo]

This was a great fest. Some films were just amazing.

My top ten (IN NO ORDER)

1. The fishermen- Just a heart warming story. some technical issues but I
looked past them and focused on the story.

2. One Saved Message-Short and sweet.

3. Placebo- amazing editing, Acting, Lighting, and story. all around goodness.

4. Split-very surreal and well shot.

5. Gray Days- Great cinematography and vibe

6. Stupendous-I couldn't find anything wrong with this one.

7. The Puppeteer-Just fun from beginning to end. Well shot and directed.

8. Brand New Kitty-Hilarious!

9. Mint in Box- Funny as hell. Well shot and the cast was perfect

10. Model/Photographer-Simply amazing.

It was hard to narrow it down to Ten when there were so many good films.
I can't wait to see who makes it to the next round.

This fest is up for grabs IMHO.

Cheers.

[Lawsuit_Boy]

Not I because I don't like making these lists, but I'm sure we'll see some. I'm a little curious, I must admit.

[CallaghanFilms]

My Top 5 (IN ORDER) (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1577434&postcount=78)


The Callaghan Top 5: LossFest Edition

#1 Lost at Sea
Favorite Bit of Dialogue...
"POO POO IT! ACTION!"

#2 The Things Between Us
Favorite Bit of Dialogue...
"...What's wrong with this place?! What's wrong with being right here with me..."

#3 Placebo
Favorite Bit of Dialogue...
"Whatever the doctors were testing here, they weren't prepared for the results...not by a long shot.'

#4 Collection Vol. 4
Favorite Bit of Dialogue...
"...This?! This? Yeah, I like this! Not on my watch! This, you...this is...this is nothing to me..."

#5 Acceptance
Favorite Bit of Dialogue...
"Awesome stuff...just like the force. 'It surrounds you...penetrates you...it binds the galaxy together'..."

[Zim]

I guess I'd rather wait till the first round winners are picked

[TiJo]

I'm new here. I don't know how everything works around here yet. But I'm loving it so far.

[lilcaro]

This is a very rough top 10, as I'm not very good with ranking things.

In no particular order:

Model/Photographer- Beautifully shot and has some of the best acting in the fest. I think it works slightly better as a prelude to Eloquent Graffiti than as a stand-alone short film, but it really drew me in and I was left wanting more.

Melody for Allyriane- One of the few films about the loss of a person that doesn't resort to histrionics and melodrama to make you feel something. It's so simply and effectively told, it really tugged at my heartstrings.

Stupendous- Not only technically well done, but it had me rolling.

Lost at Sea- THIS is how you make a hilarious film on a shoestring budget.

Ano Perdido (Lost Year)- Lovely black and white photography, effortlessly natural acting, and a genuinely affecting story. Arguably, the strongest all-around film in the fest IMO.

Acceptance- This story seemed so much more genuine to me than some others concerning the loss of a relative. When a boy that age loses someone he's close to, this is how they often react.

Again to Return- A lot of people probably didn't like or didn't get this one, but I appreciated its experimentalism, and it really felt like visual art to me as opposed to just a short film.

The Things Between Us- One of the best looking films in the fest that portrayed an honest and genuinely heartbreaking story about parents losing their daughter. Fantastic acting.

Brand New Kitty- While far from being a technical achievement, I don't think I laughed harder in the entire fest than when I watched this.

Collections Vol. 4- Despite the fact that the male lead made me slightly uncomfortable (as a woman, I can honestly say that while he was really funny, he also had a whiff of paranoid schizophrenia about him haha), I liked the awkwardness and strangeness of the whole thing.

Oh and the only reason I don't include Tiny Dancer is because I was in it :D

[Blaine]

I'll be tempted to put one up AFTER the voting has closed. :beer:

[Richard J. Johnson]

I have about 15 films in my favorites folder. I have a top 3. But I want to be sure I watch my favs again before I post them.

And thank you for the vote.

[Lawsuit_Boy]

This is a very rough top 10, as I'm not very good with ranking things.

In no particular order:

Model/Photographer- Beautifully shot and has some of the best acting in the fest. I think it works slightly better as a prelude to Eloquent Graffiti than as a stand-alone short film, but it really drew me in and I was left wanting more.

Melody for Allyriane- One of the few films about the loss of a person that doesn't resort to histrionics and melodrama to make you feel something. It's so simply and effectively told, it really tugged at my heartstrings.

Stupendous- Not only technically well done, but it had me rolling.

Lost at Sea- THIS is how you make a hilarious film on a shoestring budget.

Ano Perdido (Lost Year)- Lovely black and white photography, effortlessly natural acting, and a genuinely affecting story. Arguably, the strongest all-around film in the fest IMO.

Acceptance- This story seemed so much more genuine to me than some others concerning the loss of a relative. When a boy that age loses someone he's close to, this is how they often react.

Again to Return- A lot of people probably didn't like or didn't get this one, but I appreciated its experimentalism, and it really felt like visual art to me as opposed to just a short film.

The Things Between Us- One of the best looking films in the fest that portrayed an honest and genuinely heartbreaking story about parents losing their daughter. Fantastic acting.

Brand New Kitty- While far from being a technical achievement, I don't think I laughed harder in the entire fest than when I watched this.

Collections Vol. 4- Despite the fact that the male lead made me slightly uncomfortable (as a woman, I can honestly say that while he was really funny, he also had a whiff of paranoid schizophrenia about him haha), I liked the awkwardness and strangeness of the whole thing.

Oh and the only reason I don't include Tiny Dancer is because I was in it :D

Excellent write-ups! I certainly feel the same way on these films. Heck, this is probably my top 10 films list as well.

[Jimmy Moss]

When I watch movies I always rate for story first, then look/style, then acting, then technical details. People are more likely to forgive your technical flaws if your story is engaging and has a clear purpose with a beginning middle and end (even if its not in that order). With that said here is my list.

1. Model/photographer - (I want this to win, but we are all winners)

2. Placebo - very well done, clear story, clear ending

3. Stupendous - funny, great story

4. Hangman - again good story and acting

5. Collections - well done overall, funny and engaging

6. again to return - very interesting concept, but story is not clear (maybe I just don't get it)

Honorable mentions - The Pupiteer, Voiced, Brand new kitty, The Split, Look at me, I understand You, rant, The things Between Us,

[Zak Forsman]

thanks jimmy. nice of you to say. but I wouldn't hold my breath. :)

i was about to publish my list but i started to feel weird about it. i'll post afterward. but i will say that i handed out no 1's or 10's. i gave a total of four 8's and 9's to four films in competition. the two exhibition films would have fallen in that category as well. 14 were given 7's and all the rest were rated 6 or lower.

and i still have about a dozen to watch.

[Lawsuit_Boy]

My personal favorites after I've voted is of the highest level of security. Or something along those lines. :)

[Chamber005]

Not sure if this is a horrible question to ask, but I just can't find the time to watch all of these shorts so, does anyone know what, if any, were shot on any of the EX line? I saw lots of HVX stuff, but I was hoping to watch a new short shot on the EX1 or EX3.

Also, if any of these had 5D Mark 2 footage integrated, that'd be awesome to see as well!!

Thanks!

[Richard J. Johnson]

Just go to the Viewing page and click the film. It will tell you what it was shot with. I can't remeber if anything was shot on the EX or 5D though.

Last fest there were a couple EX shorts.


Not sure if this is a horrible question to ask, but I just can't find the time to watch all of these shorts so, does anyone know what, if any, were shot on any of the EX line? I saw lots of HVX stuff, but I was hoping to watch a new short shot on the EX1 or EX3.

Also, if any of these had 5D Mark 2 footage integrated, that'd be awesome to see as well!!

Thanks!

[Chamber005]

Yeah, checked them all. No EX or 5Ds...

:(

Ah well, I did have a chance to watch most of the shorts listed on this thread, though. BTW, that chick in Evie is totally hot. She's like a hot Eliza Dushku...

Anyway, they're all cool in their own way. Model/Photographer definately gets mad app for the visuals, tone and pacing, though.

LOL -- How much of a loser was the photographer guy, though? The model's all like, "Um, can we just take the pictures? Thanks..." Felt sorry for her, but such is the life I guess. Dude's probably gonna come back and lop her head off.

Model/Stalker

[Blaine]

Dude's probably gonna come back and lop her head off.

Model/Stalker
Nah, characters like that don't exist in Zak's world. :beer:

[Richard J. Johnson]

That is something I would do.:Drogar-Love(DBG):


Nah, characters like that don't exist in Zak's world. :beer:

[Blaine]

Well, with round 1 out of the way I'll go ahead and list my Top 10 favorites:

01. Lost At Sea
02. The Things We Carry <<Exhibition>>
03. Placebo
04. Look At Me
05. Año Perdido (Lost Year)
06. The Things Between Us
07. Collections Bol. 4: Mint In Box
08. model/photographer
09. The Dare
10. Again To Return

[Richard J. Johnson]

1. Placebo
2. Brand new kitty
3. Collections vol 4
4. Gray Days
5. Split
6. Model/Photographer
7. Voiced
8. Stupendous
9. One saved Message
10. The Fisherman

In no order except for Placebo. That was king.

[Lawsuit_Boy]

My top 10:

1. Ano perdido
2. model/photographer
3. Melody for Allyriane
4. Stupendous: The Movie
5. Lost at Sea
6. Acceptance
7. The Things Between Us
8. Again to Return
9. Brand New Kitty
10. The Fishermen

Something like that. It's not really set in stone.

[ZazaCast]

Well, with round 1 out of the way I'll go ahead and list my Top 10 favorites:

01. Lost At Sea
02. The Things We Carry <<Exhibition>>
03. Placebo
04. Look At Me
05. Año Perdido (Lost Year)
06. The Things Between Us
07. Collections Bol. 4: Mint In Box
08. model/photographer
09. The Dare
10. Again To Return

No Sh*t... I actually made Blaine's top 10!

Let me just take a moment to say that Blaine is one of the most well respected & incredibly handsome critics ever to grace the pages of DVXuser.
This is the best $20 I've ever spent! (Blaine, the checks in the mail):)

But seriously...thank you Blaine, this really does mean the world to me. You just made my week!

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

No Sh*t... I actually made Blaine's top 10!

Let me just take a moment to say that Blaine is one of the most well respected & incredibly handsome critics ever to grace the pages of DVXuser.
This is the best $20 I've ever spent! (Blaine, the checks in the mail):)
Just a heads up.... Blaine can be bought for MUCH less. :evil:

[Nick_Lee]

When I watch movies I always rate for story first, then look/style, then acting, then technical details. People are more likely to forgive your technical flaws if your story is engaging and has a clear purpose with a beginning middle and end (even if its not in that order). With that said here is my list.

1. Model/photographer - (I want this to win, but we are all winners)

2. Placebo - very well done, clear story, clear ending

3. Stupendous - funny, great story

4. Hangman - again good story and acting

5. Collections - well done overall, funny and engaging

6. again to return - very interesting concept, but story is not clear (maybe I just don't get it)

Honorable mentions - The Pupiteer, Voiced, Brand new kitty, The Split, Look at me, I understand You, rant, The things Between Us,

Dude...I got an honorable mention. That's sweet. Haha. Thanks man. Can't say I expected that.

[Sprocketboy]

Well, with round 1 out of the way I'll go ahead and list my Top 10 favorites:

01. Lost At Sea
02. The Things We Carry <<Exhibition>>
03. Placebo
04. Look At Me
05. Año Perdido (Lost Year)
06. The Things Between Us
07. Collections Bol. 4: Mint In Box
08. model/photographer
09. The Dare
10. Again To Return

Wow, Blaine. I'm not impressed that I'm on your list. I'm more impressed with the fact that almost looks like my list. My list below:

01. Collections Bol. 4: Mint In Box
02. Acceptance
03. Placebo
04. Año Perdido (Lost Year)
05. Lost At Sea
06. Last Touch
07. The Things We Carry <<Exhibition>> This film is nicely done. It should be on this list.
08. model/photographer
09. The Things Between Us
10. Again To Return

[Norm Sanders]

Wow, I was starting to wonder just how the heck LAST TOUCH made it into the top 10 at all, until I saw it finally here in Sprocket's list. I knew the comments had for the most part been extremely favorable (and the consistent feedback of what I heard wasn't working for some is definitely being worked on in the full cut, which made this fest invaluable) ... but that said, every time I saw a favorites list of any kind mentioned, mine was no where to be seen.

Hope no one things I've paid a mod off or something! :huh:

[Sprocketboy]

Wow, I was starting to wonder just how the heck LAST TOUCH made it into the top 10 at all, until I saw it finally here in Sprocket's list. I knew the comments had for the most part been extremely favorable (and the consistent feedback of what I heard wasn't working for some is definitely being worked on in the full cut, which made this fest invaluable) ... but that said, every time I saw a favorites list of any kind mentioned, mine was no where to be seen.

Hope no one things I've paid a mod off or something! :huh:

I was actually critical of your film in my comments, but you handle a very difficult script like a pro. I respect that and many have too. :thumbup:

[Maximus]

Locked and loaded.

Good luck one and all!

[Norm Sanders]

Locked and loaded.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Amazing, EVERY single film that were in your top 10 were also the same exact ones to make the list? Or, did you just rank the ones that made it in the order you feel should go and/or recently voted? Wasn't sure which, thought I'd inquire...

[Morox]

Hard to make a top ten, but a few that stood out to me were The Puppeteer, Rant, Blackout, Lost at Sea, Lost Year... Well actually, there is quite a few more, that was to name a few to name off the top of my head. To be honest, there really wasn't any BAD pieces. This was a very solid fest all around.

[Maximus]

Hey Norm,

This is my ranking of the top ten. There's no analytical way to explain the order.
It's based purely on which films I found most impressive.

My personal top ten is somewhat different than this list, but not much. :)



Amazing, EVERY single film that were in your top 10 were also the same exact ones to make the list? Or, did you just rank the ones that made it in the order you feel should go and/or recently voted? Wasn't sure which, thought I'd inquire...

[Norm Sanders]

Hey Norm,

This is my ranking of the top ten. There's no analytical way to explain the order.
It's based purely on which films I found most impressive.

My personal top ten is somewhat different than this list, but not much. :)

Understood. I'd MAYBE consider deleting it then (as I've edited the quote). I'm sure there are plenty that would argue differently with me, and I'd say the same thing even if you had LAST TOUCH at the top of the rank, but I think ranking who you think should win in this manner should hold off until after final announcements, and the folks can list how they think it SHOULD have gone, etc.

Just goes back to that thing of letting the film speak for itself with no 3rd party influences (if at all possible/reasonable), vs. members who've not voted yet possibly being influenced by a respected member stating how they thing things should go, etc.

If you notice, others are simply stating who they THOUGHT would have made the top 10, or who were their personal top 10 favorites ... not actually ranking those who made it. I think the prior was the intention of this thread.

[Maximus]

Hey Norm,

Although I seriously doubt my opinion would influence anybody, point taken. Rankings deleted!

Good luck to all!




Understood. I'd MAYBE consider deleting it then (as I've edited the quote). I'm sure there are plenty that would argue differently with me, and I'd say the same thing even if you had LAST TOUCH at the top of the rank, but I think ranking who you think should win in this manner should hold off until after final announcements, and the folks can list how they think it SHOULD have gone, etc.

Just goes back to that thing of letting the film speak for itself with no 3rd party influences (if at all possible/reasonable), vs. members who've not voted yet possibly being influenced by a respected member stating how they thing things should go, etc.

If you notice, others are simply stating who they THOUGHT would have made the top 10, or who were their personal top 10 favorites ... not actually ranking those who made it. I think the prior was the intention of this thread.

[Nick_Lee]

Hard to make a top ten, but a few that stood out to me were The Puppeteer, Rant, Blackout, Lost at Sea, Lost Year... Well actually, there is quite a few more, that was to name a few to name off the top of my head. To be honest, there really wasn't any BAD pieces. This was a very solid fest all around.


You are awesome. haha. but forsrsly. thanks sir. Appreciate it :)

[TheMacB]

Top of Callaghan's list?! Wow. (sigh) As far as I'm concerned we've already won. Regardless of the voting.

[CallaghanFilms]

Top of Callaghan's list?! Wow. (sigh) As far as I'm concerned we've already won. Regardless of the voting.

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/6548/1230602915.jpg
http://www.darksiderforums.com/forum/images/smilies/th_smiley_bartender.gifCheers and Congrats!

[Dustin R. Rogan]

Hard to make a top ten, but a few that stood out to me were The Puppeteer, Rant, Blackout, Lost at Sea, Lost Year... Well actually, there is quite a few more, that was to name a few to name off the top of my head. To be honest, there really wasn't any BAD pieces. This was a very solid fest all around.

someone didn't watch my movie then :D

Rogan

[Sprocketboy]

Who is willing to list the winner and the two follow-ups?

[Zak Forsman]

1. winner
2. follow-up
3. follow-up

[Norm Sanders]

1. winner
2. follow-up
3. follow-up

All VERY SOLID choices! Nicely done. :thumbsup:

[Sprocketboy]

1. winner
2. follow-up
3. follow-up

Those were my choices. Did you peek?

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Who is willing to list the winner and the two follow-ups?
Do you mean their best guess at who will take the top 3?

[Sprocketboy]

Do you mean their best guess at who will take the top 3?

So, you are one of the smart ones. :)

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Forgive me, "follow-ups" sounded off.

Why not pony up yourself? :)

[CallaghanFilms]

Who is willing to list the winner and the two follow-ups?
I'll stick to my guns...
(taking out only The Things Between Us, which didn't make it.)

Anyone wanna give me odds?http://images.covers.com/CoversEurope/emoticons/an_horse.gif

[Sprocketboy]

I was about to shout out, Callaghan? But, he beat me to it.

One of my choices is the film promoted in your banner, Mike.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

My prediction of the top 3 is based on who I think will place based on comments, buzz, and the weather. :)
The top 10 are all great entries and I'm sure the margins between them are very small. My personal top 3 may vary.

Enough chatter.... my prediction is as follows...

1. Lost at Sea (Everyone seems lo love it. Me too!)
2. Collections Vol 4: Mint In Box
3. Placebo

All good entries.

We'll see how it plays out but this is my best guess as to how the chips will fall.

MAH

[CallaghanFilms]

That was mine as well, 'cept switch 2 for 3...

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

There's no story to Lost at Sea, it's a funny joke, a youtube skit. While really good in execution, it shouldnt be up against others who actually wrote a story.

1. Collections Vol4 Mint in Box
2. Model / Photographer
3. Placebo

[CallaghanFilms]

There's no story to Lost at Sea, it's a funny joke, a youtube skit. While really good in execution, it shouldnt be up against others who actually wrote a story...I couldn't disagree more.

Lost at Sea was damn fine writing...without which, its execution couldn't have been so successfully (and masterfully) pulled off.

[Sprocketboy]

Ok, I'll join in. I'm not in competition any more.

1. Collections Vol 4: Mint in Box
2. Acceptance
3. Placebo

[Sprocketboy]

Lost at Sea was damn fine writing...without which, its execution couldn't have been so successfully (and masterfully) pulled off.

This is true. What is particularly impressive about LOST is the marketing campaign they ran. We all thought it was going to be a gay epic. The campaign made it even funnier. :)

It didn't make my top 3 because I also only viewed it as skit, not a complete story. Sorry. :(

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

I couldn't disagree more.

Lost at Sea was damn fine writing...without which, its execution couldn't have been so successfully (and masterfully) pulled off.

I didnt say it wasnt good writing. It IS good writing, it's funny. Iit's an inside joke skit, there isnt a STORY.

This isn't to impune them, it's got two jokes:
-isnt being gay funny?
-it's hard to get good takes as an indie

They remix those a bunch of different ways, and I laughed several times! I think this could have a great run on YouTube or Funny or Die.

[Richard J. Johnson]

I agree. I really didn't find it that funny. But I am very much the minority in regards to this film.:beer:
congrats are due either way.


There's no story to Lost at Sea, it's a funny joke, a youtube skit. While really good in execution, it shouldnt be up against others who actually wrote a story.

1. Collections Vol4 Mint in Box
2. Model / Photographer
3. Placebo

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Comedy is tougher to pull off than just about anything and Lost at Sea killed! Not only was it hilarious but it got better every take. That takes good writing and comedic timing.

It was also quite original. They set us up and knocked us down.

There were many other entries this Fest with far less story than this. In my opinion it had the perfect amount of everything, and of course.... they nailed the theme. :)

As Jason has said... you should not rate films by comparing them to the others.
I laughed my ass off and watched it again right away. I can't think of many other films that I did that with.

MAH

[JCVR]

I didnt say it wasnt good writing. It IS good writing, it's funny. Iit's an inside joke skit, there isnt a STORY.

This isn't to impune them, it's got two jokes:
-isnt being gay funny?
-it's hard to get good takes as an indie

They remix those a bunch of different ways, and I laughed several times! I think this could have a great run on YouTube or Funny or Die.

Yeah, I think it's really tough in a youtube world trying to make comedy shorts that aren't just one idea played out for a couple of minutes. I think Lost at Sea tries to break free from this mold, but I do think that it's main joke is kind of limiting. They recongnize this and do everything in their power to keep it fresh though.

[ZazaCast]

I laughed my ass off and watched it again right away. I can't think of many other films that I did that with.

MAH

Hey! ...what do you have against bobble-heads anyway?:):)

[armisiano]

Hey! ...what do you have against bobble-heads anyway?:):)

I'd say their stupid freakin' bobbling heads.



On that note, I'm a fan of "The Dare". :)

[Susanne G.]

Unfortunately I only had time to watch and vote the ten films of the second round. My favourites of these ten films are 'Again to return' and 'Melody for Allyriane'. I hope one of them will be the winner. :)

Susanne :bath:

[armisiano]

I can't really name my top 10, it's hard to say. I'll say my top 4 (in alphabetical order only) are:
1. Acceptance
2. Collections Vol. 4: Mint In Box
3. Lost at Sea
4. Model/Photographer

[Zak Forsman]

Now i feel comfortable posting my list.... the deeper you get into it, the more you'll notice that technical prowess was not a top priority for me.

1. Acceptance
2. Tiny Dancer
3. Lost Year
4. Melody For Allyriane
5. Lost at Sea
6. Again To Return
7. Stupendous
8. Falling Up
8.5 Ossian *unintentionally left off the list
9. The Fishermen
10. Brand New Kitty

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

Now i feel comfortable posting my list.... the deeper you get into it, the more you'll notice that technical prowess was not a top priority for me.

1. Acceptance
2. Tiny Dancer
3. Lost Year
4. Melody For Allyriane
5. Lost at Sea
6. Again To Return
7. Stupendous
8. Falling Up
9. The Fishermen
10. Brand New Kitty

bummer, given the glowing review you gave me, would you say why Ossian was inferior to all of these? Go ahead and lay me open

[Zak Forsman]

bummer, given the glowing review you gave me, would you say why Ossian was inferior to all of these? Go ahead and lay me open

it wasn't. oversight. i need to be more careful. these lists are bad news.

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

it wasn't. oversight. i need to be more careful. these lists are bad news.

sorry to pick on you specifically, just bad timing. This fest has me really, really confused. I get a ton of extremely positive reviews, no major problems except a few minor technical quibs for a few and I don't even place in the top ten. Compare this to Timefest, which had a more competitive field, Aetas got a TON more complaints and I place 5th with it.

So after all the reviews that Ossian got, with many people (yourself included) noting my improvement, I felt I was top 3, at least top 5, so to not even place was a big old smack of 'WTF?'

[CallaghanFilms]

...these lists are bad news.
...then just call me Tanner Boyle...

[Lawsuit_Boy]

sorry to pick on you specifically, just bad timing. This fest has me really, really confused. I get a ton of extremely positive reviews, no major problems except a few minor technical quibs for a few and I don't even place in the top ten. Compare this to Timefest, which had a more competitive field, Aetas got a TON more complaints and I place 5th with it.

So after all the reviews that Ossian got, with many people (yourself included) noting my improvement, I felt I was top 3, at least top 5, so to not even place was a big old smack of 'WTF?'

Welcome to the club, Shawn. We got 31 positive reviews, 11 mixed, and 3 negative on here and probably didn't even come close to the final round. Sometimes these types of films just aren't the majority's cup of tea. I'm sure there are other fests around in which Ossian would do quite well at. Do you have any more fests lined up for it? I think you should definitely get it as much exposure as possible.

However, you should never expect to pull a "top (whatever number)" spot. You'll shoot yourself in the foot that way. I set out to make a film that was very aesthetically European and borrowed from a number of specific film periods/movements, and I knew that it was going to divide people on here. If you make a film with as much hyperrealism/surrealism as Ossian, you must expect the majority to rank it somewhere in the middle between "didn't get it/didn't like it" and "thought it was really good."

Although, I must say that we got a lot more positive reviews from cineastes and critics outside of dvxuser that are sometimes VERY difficult to please, so that certainly made me feel better. I'm really not sore at all about not making the finals because I knew we wouldn't. Plus, I had to cut a couple of great shots from the film (which have now been placed back in for other fests) in order to make the time limit that help expand upon the male character and the girl being locked out of the dorm. Also, I know the sound is not perfect.

Just try to be a little more reasonable with yourself and don't expect to sweep contests. There's always room for tweaking and experimenting, and I'm sure your next project will be even better. :thumbsup:

[Lawsuit_Boy]

it wasn't. oversight. i need to be more careful. these lists are bad news.

I agree. I really hate trying to rank anything, not just films. Each has their merits and "downfalls" if you'd like to call them that. I certainly appreciate what all of them set out to do.

[Darkline]

The problem is no-one is brutally honest because we are all film-makers and try to be encouraging to each other.

I miss the AIM sessions, and I'd love to see a method going forward where external visitors could leave comments anon, like a guestbook. That may cause a few suicides but also bring some fresh criticism to the boards.

This would really open our films up to some honest feedback. I have sat through some coma-inducing shorts but if I were to comment on their thread I may say something like 'Great camerawork, but it didnt really grab me'. As a community trying to help each other I suppose we should be doing that; but it isnt the real world either.

Everyone would think they were top 5 from what I have read in the threads so far.

[Norm Sanders]

Wow, SO true. Great ideas, Darkline! The feedback in LAST TOUCH was for the most part overwhelmingly positive, but I've questioned a LOT how many of those didn't like it may not have posted at all, etc. So feedback/postings can be VERY misleading, because there's no way to tell who's being truly honest in the first place, let alone posting if they didn't like our film(s), etc.

[lawriejaffa]

Well I mean i didn't enter any film in the fest - and while I extend my sincere and warm congratulations to the winners (yeah you know a but is coming don't you) I don't think the festival theme was really reflected in the voting.

Now this is just an opinion (one with not enough coffee so forgive me for it later!) But this festival has produced some great films that did deal with mature issues, and those relating to emotional losses etc.

However, in a way the top two films voted here reflect the very opposite of such qualities. Now each of the films are by themselves - accomplished pieces and my hats go off to their directors.

For me, that these two films polled so well in this type of festival is more I think a reflection of slight immaturity on our voters - particularly of younger american voters. (I'm about to become mr popular but bare with me as i mean this with full respect and its just an opinion.)

Collections is the type of glossy, commercial style 'nerdy comedy' that you could almost imagine as a quirky superbowl commercial. It is charming but superficial - and in the midst of a festival that challenged filmmakers to explore the concept of loss - is hardly profound.

The question is not that comedies were appropriate or not (they of course were - and were a welcome addition to the fest) but why this film and what it stands for came first i think lends itself more to the superficial gloss and production look - than its story or artistic merit.

This is especially the case with Placebo - it is a fine film, but it is also a wet dream for every young (Fox TV inspired filmmaker on the forum) and its high ranking above other far far more mature works is a poor reflection over what we are holding important.

That is the desire to emulate and look as cool as what airs on Fox or in the latest Tony Scott production... or to take the full mantle of the challenge 'Loss' gave us and to produce something meaningful.

I take my hats off to those directors that attempted (even if they failed to do so) as this was a greater challenge than creating light entertainment (albeit very good light entertainment like Collections.)

It has been debated whether comedy or drama was harder etc. Well, comedy is a little easier ;) (Try writing a drama about violent child abuse or a comedy about a nerd embarassing himself with a cute girl ;)

So, it does not surprise me that some filmmakers whose 'earnest' works are having moments of reflection here hehe.

[Blaine]

The problem is no-one is brutally honest because we are all film-makers and try to be encouraging to each other.Hmmmm...time to bring back the brutally honest Kholi-style reviews. :beer:

[ZazaCast]

Well I mean i didn't enter any film in the fest - and while I extend my sincere and warm congratulations to the winners (yeah you know a but is coming don't you) I don't think the festival theme was really reflected in the voting.

Now this is just an opinion (one with not enough coffee so forgive me for it later!) But this festival has produced some great films that did deal with mature issues, and those relating to emotional losses etc.

However, in a way the top two films voted here reflect the very opposite of such qualities. Now each of the films are by themselves - accomplished pieces and my hats go off to their directors.

For me, that these two films polled so well in this type of festival is more I think a reflection of slight immaturity on our voters - particularly of younger american voters. (I'm about to become mr popular but bare with me as i mean this with full respect and its just an opinion.)

Collections is the type of glossy, commercial style 'nerdy comedy' that you could almost imagine as a quirky superbowl commercial. It is charming but superficial - and in the midst of a festival that challenged filmmakers to explore the concept of loss - is hardly profound.

The question is not that comedies were appropriate or not (they of course were - and were a welcome addition to the fest) but why this film and what it stands for came first i think lends itself more to the superficial gloss and production look - than its story or artistic merit.

This is especially the case with Placebo - it is a fine film, but it is also a wet dream for every young (Fox TV inspired filmmaker on the forum) and its high ranking above other far far more mature works is a poor reflection over what we are holding important.

That is the desire to emulate and look as cool as what airs on Fox or in the latest Tony Scott production... or to take the full mantle of the challenge 'Loss' gave us and to produce something meaningful.

I take my hats off to those directors that attempted (even if they failed to do so) as this was a greater challenge than creating light entertainment (albeit very good light entertainment like Collections.)

It has been debated whether comedy or drama was harder etc. Well, comedy is a little easier ;) (Try writing a drama about violent child abuse or a comedy about a nerd embarassing himself with a cute girl ;)

So, it does not surprise me that some filmmakers whose 'earnest' works are having moments of reflection here hehe.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::beer:
I share your opinion.


...and less we forget "Collections" was shot on a RED! (what's that...4 in a row now? interesting)

[Norm Sanders]

...and less we forget "Collections" was shot on a RED! (what's that...4 in a row now? interesting)

Really? I could never have been able to tell.

[ZazaCast]

Really? I could never have been able to tell.

Download Request
Title: Collections Vol. 4: Mint In Box
Author: JCVR
Camera: RedOne

[Blaine]

Camera means nothing to me. Results are everything. You can make pretty pictures with a RED but if you can't tell a coherent story, what good is it? My favorite of this fest was shot on a DVX. Good old SD, baby.

[lawriejaffa]

Yep certainly my point is not that there is any conspiracy over camera choice dictating the fests victors lol but that in this case emulation and superficiality have trumped too handily imo ;)

[ZazaCast]

Camera means nothing to me. Results are everything. You can make pretty pictures with a RED but if you can't tell a coherent story, what good is it? My favorite of this fest was shot on a DVX. Good old SD, baby.

Me too...just thought it was interesting either way.:beer:

[Sprocketboy]

Yep certainly my point is not that there is any conspiracy over camera choice dictating the fests victors lol but that in this case emulation and superficiality have trumped too handily imo ;)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news. Emulation and superficiality has a broad market. I'm all for tearing down the walls and re-inventing.

The top 2 films are using tried and true formulas. Apparently, the viewers are still buying into it. I knew they would. You or I can't change that... unfortunately. This score card will foster more unoriginal works. Who wants to be a loser?

I assure you, I will not follow this trend. Its not in my nature.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

It is interesting considering that only a few REDS are in every Fest yet a RED has won the past 4 in a row. Crazy odds.
This is a film making site though...

My bet is that a script based site would judge these movies very differently.

Nothing wrong with that though. I thought the top 10 were a pretty good bunch overall.

MAH

[lawriejaffa]

lol its bad news alright but hardly new mon amie - quite right, and im glad its not in your nature as i honestly LOVE innovative independent films made with passion and thought - regardless of genre!

I'll be entering Questfest and don't intend to follow that trend either ;)

Yep Michael id agree that the top 10 were a good reflection, the top 3 a bit more comical ;)

[Tim Joy]

We've had this discussion before, and I think it's just a case of more accomplished filmmakers having better gear... like a RED. On that note though, as I compared the images I got with the D90 (in still mode mind you) to the images from the same lighting setup shot with the dvx BTS cam, there was a WORLD of difference, and it makes it much easier to obtain a better image when you use the high-end cameras.

It's still possible to produce great images with the dvx though, just look at Stupendous, which I thought looked better than Collections.

[Zak Forsman]

Yep Michael id agree that the top 10 were a good reflection, the top 3 a bit more comical ;)

haha! i love you, man. and I sincerely appreciate your mindful appraisal of the films and the fest as a whole. but with all due respect.... eat me. :Drogar-Love(DBG): :) :) :)

[lawriejaffa]

Hahahah actually Zak (not that it makes my opinion any less annoying to the other two filmmakers) I actually meant the top '2', not yours (and this is just a petty personal opinion of mine - irrelevant bar itself) was a good entry deserved of the top 3. But that is not the issue i hope to promote discussion of (ie what i think are the top films.)

More an encouragment of aspiration over emulation.

So the directors of Placebo and Collections can say 'eat me' hehe if they disagree with my views! But they are themselves accomplished films, just not in my view within the festival remit, or as intellectually deserving artistic works.

Yours was the pinnacle of american romanticism at present - just as Acceptance was for Europe.

[Zak Forsman]

well, then we have found common ground. I take it back, brother. :)

i've been a part of these fests as an entrant and spectator since dramafest and the one thing that has not changed is that this web site, built around a camera designed to emulate something it inherently was not, has largely attracted filmmakers who learn and develop their craft thru imitation. myself included to a degree. it's just that instead of imitating tony scott or funny or die videos, i'm exploring the cinematic language as defined by hou hsiao hsien, nuri bilge ceylan, the dardenne bros, kieslowski, etc, etc.

i know, everyone's going "who?"

[Darkline]

..... So feedback/postings can be VERY misleading, because there's no way to tell who's being truly honest in the first place, let alone posting if they didn't like our film(s), etc.

Yup, but I dont think people are being dishonest intentionally, they are just trying to be fair within the guidelines of feedback. Trying to balance the critique. So a great short may get the same 50/50 focus as a poor short.

For example, I am often harder on the better shorts in my thread reviews. Maybe because it's a stones throw from being a great short or maybe because I get the vibe that they genuinely want feedback and not just a pat on the back. My review might seem negative on the face but they still score high.

Vica-versa with a bad short. They need more encouraging, so you end up giving them 50/50 good/bad feedback, trying hard to think of things that you liked but still give it 2/10.

All in all it can be misleading trying to cushion the blows. I suppose at the end of the day your overall score is the only truly honest thing you will get to see.

Although no-one would probably say it, there's also politics. If you go around being brutally honest (Im sorry but your short was painful to watch) you might open yourself up to a backlash/low marking of your own entry by those scorned. That sounds petty, but Im sure there arnt many film-makers on here that havent played the game on some level....lol. They do it in Hollywood, everyone knows everyone and it pays to be nice and constructive.

which is why some form of anon guestbook thing could be an eye opener for those willing to take the option, not everyone would want that. I sure would.

I had a short film of mine commented on a british newsboard after a festival screening. None of the guys knew me, or even knew I looked at the board. Some really liked it, but some said "it thinks its far cleverer than it is.... I hated it.... far too repetative....I turned it off after 2 minutes"

At first I thought 'ouch', I even joined and responded to one post, but then thought it was probably the best feedback I could have had. I still got a chunk of really positive feedback but the bad was not wrapped in cotton. Looking back I can see where they are coming from and it's suprising how you get over these things once you're onto your next project :-)

[Kholi]

Hmmmm...time to bring back the brutally honest Kholi-style reviews. :beer:

Heey! LoL. I wasn't brutal! I was just honest... and I always told people that I didn't know what I was talking about so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

My 1st place prediction wasn't proper, but my top three were this go. Just not in the right order.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I guessed 2 of the top 3 correctly earlier in this thread and my other pick slipped to fourth place.

[Kholi]

I'd like you guys to consider something, though...

The last few times the RED entries won, none of these people actually owned the camera. And, may I be beaten for divulging this info, the rates they're renting them for to shoot their no-budget entries are out of the kindness of people who believe in their talent.

That is to say: the camera is being used by a team that already has talent. You could say "Well, let's see them do it with a D90". Well, they don't have to... because the same people keep proving that they're worthy of the technology.

And it's not to say that others aren't! It's just how I look at it.

As far as thoughts, I'll be around next fest to give honest feedback. After I got burned during the other fest because I was honest, I strayed away from the fests in general.

You can't play in this business if you've got thin skin. But, I don't want to make any enemies either, because the circle's way too small.

[Darkline]

It is interesting considering that only a few REDS are in every Fest yet a RED has won the past 4 in a row. Crazy odds.
This is a film making site though...

My bet is that a script based site would judge these movies very differently.

Nothing wrong with that though. I thought the top 10 were a pretty good bunch overall.

MAH

True, but as you say this is more than a scriptwriting site. it takes everything into account. That said the Placebo script came third on moviepoet.com script competition.

I think the reason the Red has higher odds is on average a Red will prob have higher production values all round which does contribute to the way a film looks, not the camera itself. If someone has gone to the expense of hiring a red/lenses they probably also have the rest of the kit... lights, mics, and a crew.

This isnt to say production values cant be high on HVX's too (look at Placebo again) but if you're talking purely odds, a Red short prob has more dosh invested. That shows even at 640x480.

I didnt know Mint in Box was shot on Red until now, I just thought it was a perfectly executed short, with a great punchy script - which is why it got my highest mark. It would have done if it was a HVX with an adapter.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I'd like you guys to consider something, though...

The last few times the RED entries won, none of these people actually owned the camera. And, may I be beaten for divulging this info, the rates they're renting them for to shoot their no-budget entries are out of the kindness of people who believe in their talent.

That is to say: the camera is being used by a team that already has talent. You could say "Well, let's see them do it with a D90". Well, they don't have to... because the same people keep proving that they're worthy of the technology.

And it's not to say that others aren't! It's just how I look at it.

I agree, they are a talented bunch.
But if you can find one where I live.... I'll enter the next Fest. :)

It's tough seeing all the "Capable DP with RED camera" ads.
No such luck around here. :crybaby:

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

True, but as you say this is more than a scriptwriting site. it takes everything into account. That said the Placebo script came third on moviepoet.com script competition.

I think the reason the Red has higher odds is on average a Red will prob have higher production values all round which does contribute to the way a film looks, not the camera itself. If someone has gone to the expense of hiring a red/lenses they probably also have the rest of the kit... lights, mics, and a crew.

This isnt to say production values cant be high on HVX's too (look at Placebo again) but if you're talking purely odds, a Red short prob has more dosh invested. That shows even at 640x480.

I didnt know Mint in Box was shot on Red until now, I just thought it was a perfectly executed short, with a great punchy script - which is why it got my highest mark. It would have done if it was a HVX with an adapter.Well, I know for a fact that Broadcast (which received one of my highest ratings last fest) pulled in a few perfect 10's based on looks alone. Hell, Robbie admitted that himself. :)

I think using a RED on a filmmaking forum gives you a slight advantage. It takes more than that to win though, that's why you did. :beer:

[Tim Joy]

It may be a small factor, but I think there's a definite actor psychology going on when they are in front of a one-man-band sony handycam production vs. a 70mm Panavision with capable crew. An extreme example for sure, but they still will take the big setup more seriously and bring out the Big Guns.

[DerSpieler]

i honestly LOVE innovative independent films made with passion and thought - regardless of genre!



So, you like your nerd comedies with a little more depth? Care to give an example :)

[Kholi]

I agree, they are a talented bunch.
But if you can find one where I live.... I'll enter the next Fest. :)

It's tough seeing all the "Capable DP with RED camera" ads.
No such luck around here. :crybaby:

You should enter the next fest regardless of which camera you're shooting with. You know? It's about getting to that level and the only real way to get there is to practice.

Placebo was 35mm Adapter + HVX and for what it's worth, it was my number one.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

It may be a small factor, but I think there's a definite actor psychology going on when they are in front of a one-man-band sony handycam production vs. a 70mm Panavision with capable crew. An extreme example for sure, but they still will take the big setup more seriously and bring out the Big Guns.
Bingo. I've also received comments from Members here telling me that I should get a real camera. Tell me again that it doesn't matter. :huh:

LOL! :grin:

I'm still making movies though, working one through post now.

MAH

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

You should enter the next fest regardless of which camera you're shooting with. You know? It's about getting to that level and the only real way to get there is to practice.

Just finished shooting one, check out my banner for grabs. I don't have to enter a Fest to shoot a short! :beer:

This Forum is great for a variety of reasons.

MAH

[Darkline]

We won because I slept with all the mods, thats all.

[Jason Ramsey]

The fests are anybody's game folks. From looking at the results each fest, it's quite obvious that enough people with vastly different tastes are rating the films...

The spread on a lot of these films is tenths of a point.... There is a reason why we figure the results down to .0000

a few tenths of a point is a solid margin with this system, but it also shows that it's anybody's game.

There was a spread of about .6 from 1st to third. From 4th to 10th was like .64... anybody's game... and there were some wildly contrasting films in the top 10... The field is tight, and it is anybody's game.

Everyone wants to look at 1st place, but what about 2nd and third and the other top films over the last 4 fests?

Heck, Michael has a tiny crew in comparison and shoots all of his entries on an HV20 and has been in the top 10 pretty much every fest he has entered.

Zak's only two directorial entries were 5th and 3rd, and they were shot on an HV20, and D90 in the most minimalist style one could imagine.

---

On reviews... my personal opinion is that while there are some people who are your friends, etc, who might not give the most honest representations of their feelings about your film b/c they don't want to hurt your feelings, etc (and sometimes with good reason), that doesn't render the majority of your feedback useless, or innacurate.

Keep in mind also, that a lot of people like to give feedback based on the individual filmmaker. Blaine for example has stated that he likes to do this. If it's Zak, I bet he is going to be a lot more nit-picky with his entry, but if it's a first timer who is learning the ropes, he is going to cater his response to that person in a way that he thinks will help them the most.

The feedback, in my opinion should not be used as an "indicator" of where you will end up in the results, but it is a way to get real verbage on the impression of your film. And, of course 100% of that feedback will not be directly applicable in your opinion, and probably not even the majority. And, keep in mind... for every one person giving feedback on your film, there are 10, 20, 30 people rating it who did not write words in your thread. These are two completely different types of feedback, each with their own merits and pitfalls...

--

Also, take Ossian for example... I know shaun seemed confused there, but see my earlier paragraph. I'd also say about Ossian... Well, my personal opinion about that film was that it was a solid entry that didn't have any major flaws in it for me to want to bring out to the front. But, at the same time, it did not really strike a chord with me. I didn't leave it with a strong feeling one way or another. It was beautifully shot (and on a RED One, I might add), but the story didn't stick with me in this case. Now, that's not a knock on shaun or anything. Just my personal impression, that I think can help explain the strong feedback, or more specifically, the lack of negative feedback. It didn't have that much wrong with it, but at the same time, it wasn't a film that (for me) continued to roll around in my head.

I really dug (in no order) Acceptance, Melody for Allyrianne, Model/Photographer.... For me those films stuck with me a lot. There were also several films I really enjoyed watching. Again to Return was another. It didn't resonate with me, but I really enjoyed it and appreciated the unique style.

Falling Up had the potential to be a top 10 piece easily. I'm not real big on caring about the flash and all that, but in this case, the technical elements hurt what was a very solid story, with a unique score for a DVXFest.... Might want to watch out for Puck in the coming fests.... All the pieces are there, with a little polish, man...

And, there were a lot of films in that 10-20'ish range that I enjoyed a lot and were very appreciative of the fact that they were in the fest. They all kinda mostly fell in that range for me. I could ahve seen them in the top 10 as well though.

---

I view the fests for a different reason than some folks do apparently. For me. The creme was not as creamy this time, but the films on the whole were better. We had 28 first time entrants, and that is so excellent. And, of those, several people caught my eye, and I'm now very interested to see what they come up with next. I don't care if they were 25th, or 5th. There were some folks here who showed that they had a voice, and with some more practice could really show us something great in one of the fests ahead. That's what I am excited about, and what really gauges the success of the fests in my eyes. b/c that's what they are all about at their core. Getting folks shooting something, and being able to watch people blossom who might otherwise still be doing.... whatever...

---

The veterans... I love having folks in the fest who consistently put up good work as it helps to elevate the fests on the whole. but, my concern isn't really whether those folks feel ok about their placement in the fest. (again, just my opinion) Once you start elevating into that realm, I'm much more excited to see those folks grab the fest by the balls and do things like zak did... B/c as much as I enjoyed his film (I'm partial to the simplistic pieces), he added much more to this fest as a member than his film ever will.

anyways... I got kind of on a ramble-roll there, but anyways.

I was real proud of this fest overall. But, I'm speaking on the whole, not just in terms of quality of films or where who placed, etc.... This fest went off very well, the vast majority of folks had great attitudes, and we had folks step up to the plate in big ways, both as contributing filmmakers who I look forward to seeing more of in the future, and as members who helped add a level of respect for the festivals intentions and to the fests as well.

Later,
Jason

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

We won because I slept with all the mods, thats all.All I got was a DVXuser T-shirt. :huh:

[Darkline]

... i'm exploring the cinematic language as defined by hou hsiao hsien, nuri bilge ceylan, the dardenne bros, kieslowski, etc, etc.



We should have a kieslowski fest.

Or a Gasper Noe fest. :)

[Zak Forsman]

It may be a small factor, but I think there's a definite actor psychology going on when they are in front of a one-man-band sony handycam production vs. a 70mm Panavision with capable crew. An extreme example for sure, but they still will take the big setup more seriously and bring out the Big Guns.



Bingo. I've also received comments from Members here telling me that I should get a real camera. Tell me again that it doesn't matter. :huh:

LOL! :grin:

I'm still making movies though, working one through post now.

MAH

that hasn't been my experience. but I could see actors defaulting to that when there is a lack of trust in the director.

[lawriejaffa]

There is no 'so' about it Derspieler, if i thought it i'd state it specifically. I think my quote stands :P

I'm sure you actually have a point of criticism your trying to make though - let me help you hehe. That what im saying is subjective, and that not every film has to be a work of artistic genius? Thanks for the revelation. Do you think I like my porn with more depth?!? Is that the cariciture your concieving? ;)

Muhhahaah - all films even crap have their place, none of the top 3 were, but the question of what drove the votes for the artists or filmmakers in Lossfest is worth discussing. Especially if it reflects a little poorly imo ;)

Oh and if you were attempting a little sarcasm with your question Derspieler hehe forget not that the easiest way to justify mediocrity is to ridicule artistic endevour.

[Zak Forsman]

We should have a kieslowski fest.

sounds good. step one, which country has 65 colors on its flag to parcel out?

[Blaine]

Heey! LoL. I wasn't brutal! I was just honest... and I always told people that I didn't know what I was talking about so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.Actually, I was thinking that some of my reviews could have been tougher considering how I felt about some of the entries. I'm not planning on being viscous or anything but I think after seeing almost ALL the entries filled with comments like "that was great" "I loved it" "really nice work here" when they obviously (IMO) weren't. I think the filmmaker would be better served hearing the truth.


Although no-one would probably say it, there's also politics. If you go around being brutally honest (Im sorry but your short was painful to watch) you might open yourself up to a backlash/low marking of your own entry by those scorned. That sounds petty, but Im sure there arnt many film-makers on here that havent played the game on some level....lol. They do it in Hollywood, everyone knows everyone and it pays to be nice and constructive.This is another great point. If a filmmaker has something in the fest, they're generally not too critical.

[lawriejaffa]

I know Blaine lol, just think in Questfest (which im entering) just how jolly and nice my audio review will be for the films in that 'youuur all my favourite girl' etc

[Kholi]

Actually, I was thinking that some of my reviews could have been tougher considering how I felt about some of the entries. I'm not planning on being viscous or anything but I think after seeing almost ALL the entries filled with comments like "that was great" "I loved it" "really nice work here" when they obviously (IMO) weren't. I think the filmmaker would be better served hearing the truth.

This is another great point. If a filmmaker has something in the fest, they're generally not too critical.

Yeah, it's not even about being vicious. But it becomes vicious in the eyes of others who think that your kid gloves aren't soft enough. As much as this is DVXuser and we're all friends, we need to help each other grow...

Or we'll just be stuck in the same place.

I'm back for next fest regardless of what I'm doing.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Heck, Michael has a tiny crew in comparison and shoots all of his entries on an HV20 and has been in the top 10 pretty much every fest he has entered.

I believe I was as high as fifth/sixth in Hallows Fest but who's counting. :evil:

I usually never expect to place top 3 though. Too much talent/professionals around here. :beer:


MAH

[Tim Joy]

Seems like we have a discussion like this after every fest, and of course it's always hard to decide 'winners' when we're talking about Art. One man's trash is another man's treasure, I suppose.

It's magical when talented people can come together and put something up on the screen that others connect with. It's really hard to put a finger on what it takes to make that magic, but sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. :)

[DerSpieler]

Oh and if you were attempting a little sarcasm with your question Derspieler hehe forget not that the easiest way to justify mediocrity is to ridicule artistic endevour.

I'm neither attempting to justify mediocrity nor ridicule artistic endeavor. You seem to be assuming that conventional equates to mediocre. If that's your opinion you're entitled to it but I'd hasten to disagree.

I get the impression you're miffed that a couple of conventional genre films made the top three. It seems you would prefer a drama, and I can certainly see where you're coming from. There were some great dramas in the fest and I honestly thought Acceptance would take the top spot.

But how many truly original and unconventional films were in the top ten? I can think of one, two at a stretch.

[Norm Sanders]

Seems like we have a discussion like this after every fest, and of course it's always hard to decide 'winners' when we're talking about Art. One man's trash is another man's treasure, I suppose.

It's magical when talented people can come together and put something up on the screen that others connect with. It's really hard to put a finger on what it takes to make that magic, but sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. :)

Bingo. If you try to make a film that will win, you may be severely disappointed because there are SO many countless & unpredictable variables that go with those who are voting, how they'll receive it & why, etc.

Just make a film that exceeds your last product on some/every level, one that YOU will be proud of, and one that your CAST and CREW can be proud of. You do that, you're a winner no matter what. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

[lawriejaffa]

With respect though though Despieler I'm not really assuming anything, ive laid out an opinion. I don't think psycho-anyalysing my position and trying to figure out the kind of films i would have wanted to win is relevant.

The entire point of my post is there and self evident - not to be summarised in a glib sentence but there... every word of it hehe. A wizard is never late hehe.

So please agree/or disagree relative to my post if you have something to say, but please don't attempt some straw summary of my position ;)

//

I just know im going to end up get percieved as some kind of evil British art snob (actually I am so fair enough muhaha) but here's the logic I don't accept. Some might say, well not everybody likes 'arty' films or 'intellectual' films. Now whether those merits exist in a film is fairly subjective - (but lets not kid ourselves that its sooo subjective as to become some kind of metaphysical non-point...)

I cringe when I sometimes hear a kind of, 'oh well some folks like this and others that so in the end its all relative.' It's not actually - an uneducated mass will be satisfied with slop. When I was a kind of dimwit (I still am but less so now...) I was as a filmmaker satisfied less with exploration than egotistical imitation, or superficiality. I refused to watch foreign films, didn't like reading... preferred watching and copying etc. Fortunately I evolved past that at the age of 16 ;)

Does that make me some kind of genius now that I don't do that (no it doesnt.) I still do to an extent, but i do attempt to explore and grow as a filmmaker - cultivating new inspirations, transcending the very 'technical' market produced hyper budget mainstream products (that i sometimes enjoy like everyone else) to something a bit more clever (hopefully) with my own projects. 1 because I cant afford to make Transformers anyway - and 2 because independent film (with an enquiring and intellectual mind) offers a PROFOUND opportunity for storytelling that many producers and directors in the industry would love to have.

The first two films were almost 'anti-intellectual' - 'consumer driven' projects (that i have cited respect for already as productions) but i think awkwardly highlight an uncomfortable contrast between what is genuinely worthy of both story, artistic merit and intellect - and what is simply 'cool'.

In a way im repeating myself. Filmmakers have every right to make what they want, but i think some critical evaluation of the festival electorate as it were is warranted, because superficiality in art should be challenged full stop ;) Placebo - and Collections - if their production quality, and 'popular' stylising was instead contributed to story / and thought, i would like to think they would still have come first and second... but would they?

I'll leave it at that - as its just a point i wanted to highlight (though should anyone wish to keep discussing it in the thread ill happily oblige)!

[CallaghanFilms]

Regurgitate?!

Lost at Sea was hand down the most original entry in the fest...

A number of the films weren’t films at all, but music videos.

[Kholi]

Beware: don't argue with lawriejaffa...

[Blaine]

Muhhahaah - all films even crap have their place, none of the top 3 were, but the question of what drove the votes for the artists or filmmakers in Lossfest is worth discussing. Especially if it reflects a little poorly imo ;)This certainly points out the importance of "understanding your market." If "winning" or "placing high" is important, it's equally important to understand your target audience.

<not directed to you, Lawrie, but the board in general>
Complaining about one's final standing in the fest is either a case of not seeing your film in a realistic light OR not understanding the audience to whom it is being present. One only has to check out the top 3 in the previous fests to see what is going to "please" the DVXUser audience. To discount this fact, is kind of like pissin' in the wind. :beer:

[lawriejaffa]

Hi Call! I can't remember the full quote of the sentence where is aid regurgitation (I know I did) - but Lost at Sea was an extremely innovative comedy film - and I agree was one of the most original films in the fest, it certainly was not in my mind as an example of a superficial beauty otherwise contrived.

Kholi i'm not that bad hehe ;)

Oh your quite right Blaine - the fortunate thing about the forum, is that as a vortex of creative ideas and theories lol - we can get all sorts of opinions. The prevailing attitude is often (us being filmmakers) about making our movies cool, especially to make them look cool. The market here is almost early 20s guys and American at that yep - and sometimes (definately NOT always) the festivals reflect that.

So I agree with you, but i'd like that market to be challenged a little to aspire higher in what they reward. (Its also just an opinion... I keep saying that, as i understand that not even a majority will agree with my sentiments) but i do want to throw it in there as an appeal.

[Jason Ramsey]

is this thread going in circles, yet? :)

Later,
Jason

[Tim Joy]

round and round and round she goes. Where she stops. nobody knows

[lawriejaffa]

I don't think we're doing too bad yet Jason! It will do in about 2 - 3 pages time though but not yet hehe

[Noel Evans]

Interesting discussion going on here.

I think the difficulty lies in the fact that not all entries get everything wrong. Some bad sound, some good acting, some good cinematography, but other things are let slide.

When it comes to comments, the first thing I try to do is commend what was done correctly. And follow up by politely saying where I think technical issues etc where.

IMO, we dont need youtube like comments posted anon.

I will say this. When I watch all the original entries I watch them at their respective compressed size. And this is where my votes come from. For second round I drop all the entries into a timeline and render for viewing via hdmi to my bravia. And I must say that if it were possible, my second round votes would have changed (I do understand the compressed entries arent meant for this, but it helps me see them how I want to).

In future if I do vote, I will do this with my personal top 10 before first round voting ends. But therein lies a small issue for me. Its very easy IMO, to miss things in a small compressed web version compared to viewing - sometimes good things one of the filmaker has spent a lot of time and thought on to get in the shot and viewed small, these things arent seen as well. And conversely etc.

[lawriejaffa]

That's a very good point - I watch mine on a 22" flat screen high res monitor, but I think cinematically some films will play better in more appropriate venues (even if thats a plasma screem in the living room as opposed to the computer - in between us checking emails etc.)

[Norm Sanders]

First, the winner for the most high brow college words goes to..... :)


I cringe when I sometimes hear a kind of, 'oh well some folks like this and others that so in the end its all relative.' It's not actually - an uneducated mass will be satisfied with slop. When I was a kind of dimwit (I still am but less so now...) I was as a filmmaker satisfied less with exploration than egotistical imitation, or superficiality. I refused to watch foreign films, didn't like reading... preferred watching and copying etc. Fortunately I evolved past that at the age of 16 ;)


I find this comment a little disturbing, because it appears to bring into question someone's maturity level if they're not making extremely artistic, thought provoking films? Remember, filmmaking is a business as well, and there are some that want to make money at the business, and have aspirations to someday produce mainstream features, etc.

Films similar to those that won are typically the kinds of films that also do commercially well in the theatrical & DVD markets. If they are commercially viable concepts (i.e. making the studios money because people WANT to see them, and therefore pay to do so), it makes sense that they'd also end up being audience favorites.

Personally, while I can appreciate the types of films you speak of (artistic, high brow, etc), does it mean that I have any desire to make them? Not really, because I know it's a smaller niche audience that will understand and/or truly enjoy them. Does it mean I'm immature as a filmmaker, and that I'm the equivalent mindset of a 16 year old? I'd like to think not.

Truth be told, I LOVE comedy, and watching stuff blow up in action films, etc. I've just not gotten around to making one yet, and have been stuck in this rut of dreary, depressing, someone dies kind of filmmaking. But I'm looking to change that....

People get into this industry most often because they ENJOY it. What they enjoy is going to be different to them, than it will be to the next person, just like the end product will appeal to some, and others not as much. No one can understand the psychology of someone enough through these boards to determine that they've not 'advanced' enough as a filmmaker, and are therefore making drivel. Who knows what's built their character to give them utter joy in making the stuff they do make? Who has the right to even bring it into question? :huh: If it entertains, let it be.

The 'educated' market you're referring to tends to be the more culturally rich market (i.e. they read a LOT, they pick apart story, character, etc.) ... they are this market because they CHOOSE to be, and that's what they enjoy. But, let's face it, it is a smaller niche, and not the majority. For those people who make films for this market to enjoy & appreciate; Godspeed. They shouldn't be critiqued for doing so, anymore than the guy who makes a more commercially viable/wider audience appealing film.

[DerSpieler]

So please agree/or disagree relative to my post if you have something to say, but please don't attempt some straw summary of my position ;)


Says the man who interpreted a snide remark as "ridiculing artistic endeavor" and "defending mediocrity" and went on to give a straw summary of the voters in this fest :)

If I thought the films were mediocre I wouldn't be defending them. And I would never ridicule an artist for attempting to innovate. I just don't see innovation as the be all, end all of artistic merit.



I just know im going to end up get percieved as some kind of evil British art snob (actually I am so fair enough muhaha) but here's the logic I don't accept. Some might say, well not everybody likes 'arty' films or 'intellectual' films. Now whether those merits exist in a film is fairly subjective - (but lets not kid ourselves that its sooo subjective as to become some kind of metaphysical non-point...)

You'd probably be surprised to learn that I'm something of a film snob myself, and British to boot. I don't disagree with your sensibilities regarding 'intellectual' films. And I'm certainly not one of the uneducated masses to which you refer. I've studied the greats, and not so greats. 8 out of my 10 favourite movies are European and pre-1970s. You could probably guess one of them based on my username. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good genre flick if it's well-executed and entertaining.

For entertainment value I'd take a solid genre flick over pretentious experimental garbage like Last Year at Marienbad any day of the week.

Over to you :)

[Jason Ramsey]

It's been fun... but on to other things :)