Complex Matchmoving

[Philipbowser]

I'm looking to do some interesting sepcs involving some pretty intense 3d matchmoving. I have some experience with it using simple tracking programs like pfhoe. Nothing more advanced than that. I'll be exporting the information to Motion 3 and adding in some motion graphics in 3d space along with the live action footage.

I've been thinking about the technical solutions to some of my potential problems but I just don't have enough experience to think of some without spending some serious money. If anyone has some experience and is willing to lend me some information or guide me to some places that would be seriously really appreciated.

My potential problems so far:

- A long steadicam tracking shot. The entire thing will be done in one shot moving through various environments, there will be a lot of parallax but it will span long distances. How does that affect the track?
- Every tracking shot I have tried to date hasn't been perfect using pfhoe. There have always been tiny bits of sliding in some spots. I don't have enough money to buy pro apps for this. Will this be a serious issue? Any ways to get around buying 5 thousand dollar software?
- I want to have the character interact with some of these graphic objects, I know that will require quite a bit of rotoing and keyframing.. but are there any on set precautions I should/could take to make it easier?


How well do programs like pfhoe handle really long tracking shots?

If anyone has any experience in 3d tracking or have solved some pretty complex shots. It would be nice to hear from you, your experience and maybe some tips/alternatives.

The whole thing will be done in a controlled environment. Most likely a studio or large gym.. so I have complete control over my environment (the character will be entirely rotoscoped out of it anyways). If there's anything I should look into. Maybe where to place tracking markers? How to set up markers for a large environment/long shot.

Any help/direction would be awesome!

Thanks,

Philip.Bowser
Toronto

[triplej96]

Hello Philip,

Sounds like quite a undertaken. Especially with pfhoe. I've only used it twice before I bought SynthEyes. Long tracking shots are certainly possible. What will you be adding to the scenes is a big quesiton. Tracker markers are good but require roto of course.

Controlled enviroment is a good thing trackign markers will be very important if their arent a lot of features to track. Also, if you are expecting one button auto track solutions you may be in for a scare. Sounds like some manual/supervised tracking will be needed for sure.

What is the project may I ask? What camera will it be shot on?

I have dealt with some complex shots before and still am but I haven't been doing it very long so I'm learning something new all the time about match moving. With that said I have had some professional match move jobs so I have a pretty good grasp on this area. Check my imdb and other links :).

Also if you are curious I have some matchmove examples and test at these links my wipwebsite (http://joshjohnsonfilms.com/index.html)
youtube (http://www.youtube.com/user/triplej96), vimeo, (http://www.vimeo.com/3302098)

And have taught a class on matchmoving and compositing at www.cineversity.com (http://www.cineversity.com/)

Take care.

[Anhar Miah]

Don't forget sometimes,just sometimes a manual track is the only way for some very complex shots, its an utter pain (frame by frame) but sometimes its the only way..

Anhar

[Philipbowser]

Thanks to you both!

I'm going to be shooting on an HVX, 720p (unless a better format is recommended?) And flying it with a stabilizer.
I was scared you would say that triplej96. About it being quite a feat for pfhoe.

What I'm attempting to shoot is a spec for Nike. I'm really aiming for the end result to look like a man who is playing basketball in this white empty space with all of these other weird hand drawn creatures around him playing defense in 3d space. Along with other world objects being drawn in while they play. I want to achieve this by shooting the subject in a gym with tracking markers and place holders for where the creatures will be, track it with hopefully pfhoe, import the info into AE and Motion and create the world and animation in 3D space. Then roto out our character frame by frame (I know tedious but I've done it before), desaturate him and then composite him into our 3D world.

To my knowledge I believe this should be possible if I can get a good track. Does anyone foresee any major difficulties besides the tracking issue?

I hope that explains a little bit about what I'm trying to accomplish. I checked out your youtube stuff triplej96, and its really funny I realized... I have youtubed you before a bit ago and was looking at how you did alot of your stuff and was thinking to my self "hmm.. I should probably contact him and ask him if he could give me some tips." So thats kind of ironic. What programs do you use generally for matchmoving? Do you still use syntheyes? Does syntheyes allow manual tracking? And how hard is manual tracking to do?

Thanks again for your response. I'm thinking I'm starting to get a better idea as to what I need to do to pull this off. Yikes!

Phil

[Anhar Miah]

Nearly forgot

Use High shutter rate, very important, as ANY bluring spells problems for any tracking software, I learnt this the hard way.

Anhar

[triplej96]

Nice idea Phil. HVX 720p should be fine and a high shutter will only help if your moving a bit. For the effect you want it might be easier to shoot on green screen or a big white backdrop then add your trackers and place holders. Seems that would require less roto.

Yep thus far I've pretty much only have used SynthEyes as the price tag is way lower than Boujou and pftrack.

Depending on when you get it done and what I'm doing I might be able to track it for you in SytnhEyes...

[Philipbowser]

Thanks for the tips.

Yeah I think I might have to shoot it on green. Which makes me cringe a bit for budget. Because that would mean building a set in a green studio to cover angles.

Josh, that sounds absolutely amazing. Thank you for the offer, I really appreciate that. I'll keep in touch about the project and hopefully we can make something work out.

How was working on Duplicity? What kind of work did you do?

Thanks for your help,

Phil.

[Postmaster]

You might look into Voodoo and Ikarus.
Both are free - do a google search.

Frank

[triplej96]

Your welcome Phil. Just keep me updated on the project :).

Working on Duplicity was great! I did match moving on the film. It was some of the hardest match moves I've ever done but I learned a lot. It comes out Friday I'm excited to see my name finally on the credits of a big feature film. It starts to make me thing the hard work is paying off!

[anesthan]

HI

Just wanted to say nice work Josh

Anesthan

[triplej96]

Thanks Anesthan!