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View Full Version : HPX300 steadicam and central park footage



Barry_Green
03-07-2009, 07:08 PM
Jan sent me some clips to have DVXUser host. These are h.264 quicktime files converted from the AVC-Intra source clips.

These clips aren't really to show any awesome video quality or whatever; they are HEAVILY recompressed. They're just clips that Jan had that show some pretty significant motion, for those wanting to see pans and steadicam shots from a prototype HPX300.

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AwakenedFilms
03-07-2009, 07:48 PM
Too bad the compression is so bad. I have been curious about moving shots with the 3MOS. On my end ts really hard to see through the compression and worst of all, seems to stutter.


Jason

jmarkham
03-07-2009, 08:51 PM
it's hard to attribute what visual artifacts to what ..

Cees Mutsaers
03-08-2009, 03:48 AM
video 1 : When I look at the walking lady's I see no artifacts, when I look at the same time at the background (vertical black window-frames, white pillar) I see a some skewing. Also just before they go down the stairs it looks like the building on the background is tripping over. However if you would not have asked me to look at artifacts I would not have noticed them so maybe for a customers it is ok.

Video 2 : looks all right to me. Don't understand why this one looks better although the panning looks faster and the shot less wider.

Video 3 : Some skewing of the small 1 meter high grey pillars of the fence on the back.

Jan_Crittenden
03-08-2009, 04:39 AM
Hi,

I think I am going to have to wait till Art gets back from the Ididrod and see if I can get him to compress these for me and I wil put them up on Vimeo. They really are much nicer than wat we are able to see here. Sorry.

It is too bad they are so heavily compressed (these don't even begin to play on my computer without jumping about 6 frames a second)as the motion artifacts are really not that noticable in a real playout. The motion on the Frisbee game is quite impressive, I can assure you that no one that has watched the frisbee footage ever mentioned the skew, they are more amazed by the fact that the action is being tracked and you don't see any jello. I know I haven't noticed any skew. In the same piece of footage there is a tracking shot of a guy on a bicycle, again, no noticable skew on the trees, and there is a merry-go-round shot and no skew is noticable there either. There are a couple of pans as well. This is the sequence of Central Park we used at the press conference. I am just not a compressionist and Art did all the sequences for the NAB program last year, and there is a special knack to having it look and play right. I will post a link when I have it ready.

Best,

Jan

Cees Mutsaers
03-08-2009, 05:16 AM
Don't get me wrong Jan I like the footage too and I am releaved that I really had to look at the footage as "inspector Columbo" to see some skewing at all but it is there. That's why it is so nice to see footage yourself in stead of having to trust on someone else's judgement. Untill now I only read that skewing was bad but now I am faling in love again with this cam as I did when I saw it first time. Yes the frishbee action is impressive :-))) Hope the production cam will be even better, you think this is likely ????


edit : can heavilly compression cause artifacts like skewing in the footage ?????

Jan_Crittenden
03-08-2009, 05:20 AM
Hope the production cam will be even better, you think this is likely ????

It already is. We just upgraded all the cameras in my possession last week and sent out the file to our managers to update their cameras. There is probably one more revision by the time it delivers. This last upgrade made it quieter and the colors are improved.

Best,

Jan

kevinM
03-08-2009, 08:09 AM
First, the steadicam operating is, well...not the best. That is why the building looks like it is tipping over in the first shot when they start down the stairs. It has nothing to do with rolling shutter. However, when trying to evaluate skewing and rolling shutter the poor operating actually helps. The camera level is shifting back and forth like a boat on the water and if there was severe "jello-vision" it would be really evident in a case like this.

I think most of what I see in the white columns are motion artifacts caused by the compression. If you stop the playback the hard-edged jaggies disappear almost completely but are really pronounced to me during playback.

Most of what I do involves Steadicam work or some sort of camera movement. If you handle the camera right, there is nothing here that I see as a deal killer.

The best way to evaluate these shots is if we could get Quicktime versions that we can step through frame-by-frame. With the Motionbox and Vimeo stuff there is no way to do that.

Flashes and strobes will remain a problem with any CMOS camera. If you're into lightning storms or concerts, you are likely to have problems with half exposed frames.

This camera is already on my buy list. AVC-Intra and form factor make it worth the price of admission.

SPZ
03-08-2009, 09:40 AM
It already is. We just upgraded all the cameras in my possession last week and sent out the file to our managers to update their cameras. There is probably one more revision by the time it delivers. This last upgrade made it quieter and the colors are improved.

Best,

Jan

Great Job Jan. That's the attitude to go from you guys. If it needs to be delayed, so be it. Just make the best of the technology and give us the best posssible Cam you can come up with with the Cmos technology!

David Saraceno
03-08-2009, 11:11 AM
Is it possible to get these clips in native format?

I'd certainly like to see how they ingest and grade, and also evaluate natively without all the compression.

Is this an option -- particularly the first one with those nice ladies in it?

hotchkiss
03-08-2009, 10:02 PM
... at a open house with Jan two weeks ago, including the mentioned bicyclist shot in Central park. I did not see any artifacts or skewing, just stunning dynamic range, tonal range and a beautiful image. That being said, I'd still like to see some more long lens panning shots to evaluate the existence of and the amount of the skewing affect to whatever degree that it exists. Anyone ?

It is rather mind blowing to see the quality of image that this camera delivers at it's price point. I suspect that it's going to be another genre defining camera.

Jan_Crittenden
03-09-2009, 03:50 AM
Is it possible to get these clips in native format?

I'd certainly like to see how they ingest and grade, and also evaluate natively without all the compression.

Is this an option -- particularly the first one with those nice ladies in it?

I certainly could send them but if I send to one I would need to send t all, I don't have that sort of time or budget. The Steadicam clips are pretty small relatively and the one steadicam clip that Barry didn't post was the one where the operator was running with the camera. The Central Park is several minutes, thus several GBs. Anyone want to host?

Maybe Art can just give me some clips rather than the entire edited piece. He''ll be back tonight from the Iditarod start. He actually took a 300 there to get some footage for me as well and to checkout how the new LCD and VFR work in cold. It was a balmy 15 degrees yesterday.

Best,

Jan

Jason Ramsey
03-09-2009, 03:58 AM
Jan, if you can provide me with a place to obtain the footage, I can probably arrange hosting of at least some of it using our dvxfest load-balanced mirror system, or just my own personal server space.

jason at landmine dot tv

Thanks.

later,
Jason

Jan_Crittenden
03-09-2009, 04:03 AM
Jan, if you can provide me with a place to obtain the footage, I can probably arrange hosting of at least some of it using our dvxfest load-balanced mirror system, or just my own personal server space.
later,
Jason

Thanks Jason, Let me see when Art gets back if he can give me a couple of clips that I think will address some of the questions about footage the folks want to see, long range pans, the carousel, the tracking shots, and the night sot of the skating rink, with is a real favorite. That way it won't be GBs but more like the MBs. I can send them on a DVD to you.

Best,

Jan

Jason Ramsey
03-09-2009, 04:06 AM
Sure. Whatever works best for you.

Later,
Jason

David Saraceno
03-09-2009, 09:09 AM
Thanks Jan.

I was hoping that someone could host the footage and not that you would send just to me.

And to clarify:

Are you indicating that the rolling shutter issues have been attenuated as the camera nears production?

That's what I thought I read?

Any specifics?

SPZ
03-09-2009, 07:37 PM
David, that's a good question. Jan,the Central park footage was also shot with the Pre-production model, no? Same series as the Phillip Bloom camera?

zeke
03-09-2009, 08:48 PM
Check out http://www.drop.io for uploading and sharing files.
Up to 100megs free, low cost for gigabyte and up. You can password protect your content if desired
No plug-ins for your browser needed either.
Joe C.

Jan_Crittenden
03-10-2009, 03:04 AM
Check out http://www.drop.io for uploading and sharing files.
Up to 100megs free, low cost for gigabyte and up. You can password protect your content if desired. No plug-ins for your browser needed either.



The problem with the Central Park sequence is that it is about 2.5 GB. That's a lot to down load. So I was thinking that I would get the clips that specifically address the questions the group wants to see, and post those. I already have a FTP but not sure they can handle the volume of downloads.

Best,

Jan

Jan_Crittenden
03-10-2009, 03:07 AM
David, that's a good question. Jan,the Central park footage was also shot with the Pre-production model, no? Same series as the Phillip Bloom camera?

Since I do not know which version of the camera Philip shot with, I couldn't say, but indeed each version of the camera seems to be getting better.

Best,

Jan

David Saraceno
03-10-2009, 10:03 AM
Thank you.