Credits for work.

[Raptor365]

Have you ever been asked to do work for credit?

I have and was happy to do so for people like Mark Johnson who really worked with me to get his vision on screen.

Also Mark Harris for the opening credit sequence (appeared 'after' the fest closed) in Joe's and Marks RPDM.
That stuff I'm happy to do for free because I know they will put out something I'm going to like and I like those guys, plain and simple.


In my brief experience with 3D, I get a lot of offers that offer credits and maybe the odd paying job, maybe.

But I've had it with everyone wanting free gigs only because I can't do them all. And It seems with the freebie' idea has caught on all the way up to the Hollywood big production subcontractors who are looking to save a few hundred bucks. "Hey' we'll give you a credit on this movie if you can pull this off." I see the big comapnys now sub-contact out thier work to aspiring companies who then subcontract out themselves via credit gigs.

Anyways, I'm forced into the position where I've had to turn down everyone that's not paying, and unfortunatley, only 1 of the past 3 gigs have actually payed up in the past 6 months so that caused a pisser around herre. So, how do you think I feel about that?

But not to be too negative, I love this place, the indie spirit, the mods and staff and the passion people have to document thier visions and thier willingness to share information along the way.

Just sometimes people ask too much for free and the burning part is most of the people asking me have tons more money that I'll ever have which is a bit of an insult.

But yeah, Mark J and Mark H and a 'few other' friends I'll always work for free for becuase I dig thier stuff. The rest is considered payed work becuase there are not enough hours in the day, period.

Anyways, another rant by yours truley.

Back to the question, "have you ever been asked to work for credit?"
And how do you handle that? I understand most people won't touch it anymore. It has it's place though.

[triplej96]

I hear ya Gord. I've been asked and I rarely will work for free or credit! I think it certainly has its place for beginners and well if I was asked to work on say Iron man 2 for credit I think I would do it :).

But yes it can be insulting too because one thing I've learned is to never undervalue yourself in this business.

[Raptor365]

Yeah, I could go for an Iron Man or 2 I suppose but it would bug me to have to do one for free. Still, I guess the credit would be worth something to consider. Kind of like an Oscar I suppose, wherein the Oscar statue itself is worthless, but because of what it represents it can get you better paying gigs.

It just means another box of Kraft Dinner, which I love in moderation, until the money comes in.

And here I am working with an obsolete computer,obsolete software and can't afford to stay online anymore, (DONT ASK), and there are guys asking me to do free gigs who are posting grabs of thier $30,000 studio setup online, which is still modest yes, but better than my $600 setup.

I'm still down for doing indie gigs and always will be I hope, but you know what I mean. It would certainly help if I could afford it, lol.
Maybe I'll win a lottery. Then I'll have something new to complain about, lol.

Thanks for chiming in Josh.

Welp, it's 5 am here, so I'd better get out and walk the streets and see if I can find some cigarette butts to pick up, or I'm going to be out of smokes again today. That's what I get for spending my last $10 on beer yesterday, haha.
Me + :beer:+ :Drogar-Smoke(DBG):= :thumbup:

[lawriejaffa]

Hey guys, I mean the thing is we don't have to work for free. I'm a producer primarily but i dont really ask folk to work 'for credit' myself, but tend to do co-operative work (ie scratch my back i scratch yours) type relationship with a variety of different creative folk.

The nearest to that has been with acting students - (still at college etc) where if I require help with producing say a non-profit short film, then ill say it might be good experience - and of 'mutual benefit'.

I've not been asked too much to do things for free, but people only really identify me through a business so perhaps if i was say lawrie the artist that does freelance, id get folks trying to basically 'stretch their luck' hehe

[Sad Max]

Oddly enough, for the first time someone here on DVXUser recently pm'd me asking if I did 3D animation and credits; when I said 'yes' they apparently thought that meant I was offering to do their project and sent me their materials.

I didn't mind (although I didn't take the work since I'm presently full-time on a tv show and limiting the outside work I take) but I did find it a little odd that anybody would sort of figure that someone would just do unsolicited project work free-of-charge, without even a cursory discussion of rate, etc...

[Norm Sanders]

Hey, will one of you guys work for me for credit?

HA! Kidding! That said, do you have reels/work I can look at for your 3D stuff? Then I'll want to talk rates ... I've got a couple of things I may need some help with. :)

[triplej96]

Hi Norm,

I'm putting together my first reels. Will have 3 or 4 of them. One for Matchmoving, Roto, Motion graphics, and one for VFX/compositing.

Currently I'm uploading some match move examples together in one video (online in about a hour) kind of like a reel but not really since its not polished it doesn't have any before/after but I needed something to show until my reels are finished.

Also, you can check my IMDB I was a matchmover on the feature film Duplicity that comes out tomorrow.

[Zak Forsman]

you know what i find odd? I'm known for doing a lot of improv based dramatic work in my films -- finding the scene in the moment rather than on the page. I would understand asking me for thoughts on how to get a scene on its feet and maybe some adjustments to try with the actors, but people keep asking me to read their scripts. sometimes i don't even use a script. see here --> http://dvxfest.com/lossfest/index.php?id=2900468

[triplej96]

That is odd Zak but in a way flattering too. I love your work by the way :).

[Matt Grunau]

Though I've not been asked to do 3D for credit, I have been asked many times to do visual and color grading work, as well as sound design. With one exception, Barlow Elton, the relationships I formed with the folks deteriorated quickly, and have fallen to nothing. In Barlow's case, I made a great friend, and we talk about many related issues, and share ideas. So that has been a very nice relationship to come out of it, to say the least.

However (and com on, you KNEW a "but" or "however" was coming), one thing I DON'T put up with is people wanting revision after revision, having my ideas torn to shreds, my work put under a microscope. If you don't want to pay me, fine, but certainly don't treat me like an employee, or in some cases, one of your children. As far as I am concerned, any of us who will work to help someone out deserve a HELL of a lot more latitude.

If one is starting out and is developing a skill, I can see doing a few (FEW) gigs for free to get your name and work out their and viewed. In fact, I encourage people starting out to do just that. But the line must be drawn, and must be drawn with a big, big, BIG ass stick as to what is not longer acceptable for free. There are instances where I have shot myself in the foot, and believe me, I won't do it again.


I suggest to most who commented here thus far (and that only because the skill level has reached the point where free work should be a thing of the past), unless you have done so for someone, and that someone and you have a great working relationship, no more free work.



We need to do our small part to nip this "getting quality work for nothing" nonsense in the bud.

[Sad Max]

Yeah. Money buys a client-type relationship.

Credit buys more of a partnership-type arrangement.

[Raptor365]

Norm, if you were to ask, being one of the veterans around here, sure, like the rest of the dvx vets, I, and I would hope that others, could lend a hand in whatever you need.

I used to love the idea of helping people make a film, for films sake, for story sake. For that, I would always work for free and still will.

And I still feel that way. But it's the other free gigs that end up sucking the life out of me in the end.
Hey Norm, ya know what can go a long way? Offer a few bucks to the guys. Talk to them.
I mean actors always get the paid day, but us 3D guys get shi*, and we work 10X what they do. Haha, right?

[Sad Max]

FWIW I love on-set crew work, and will do that free of charge, just to help out and for the fun of it when I can.

3D and design work are a different story.

[Norm Sanders]

Hey Raptor, thanks, MUCH appreciate the words. :)

Josh has already contacted me (I have two things in mind, the first I'm dealing with is wanting to do a classic - i.e. timeless - film leader, the other is an animated business logo. We've agreed to have him do a rough mock up of the 1st, and see where it goes from there. I've been laid off from my day job since early December, but can spare a few bucks & will talk rates, etc. as we get closer to thinking we're on the same track or not.

[Raptor365]

Norm, yeah, there are a few people that I'd help out hands down, and you have always been one of them, becuase you make films from the heart first and formost, because you love it, not for the buck, althouth that has it's place after wards. But yea, the love of making a story come to life is what I get off on, and will always support that.

//Jeez, do I get the Mark Harris Ham Award for that one? Sorry man. Just having fun and just sayin'. :beer:

[dory_breaux]

I used to do it and sometimes still do, depending on the project and person I'm working for.

[Raptor365]

I'm doing one now. And it's the hardest thing I've done so far, technically. Another freebie but I found the idea interesting and a personal challenge and so far it has been both.
What can I say, I liked his idea and he provided story boards and direction. So that helps a great deal. Mmmm, we're havin fun.:beer:

[Mattykins]

I used to work in VFX a lot. And mostly for free. Raptor and I have had this discussion before actually. And I needed to pull out of working VFX because I lost the thrill of doing it and it didn't pay the bills.

VFX isn't where I want to be either. But that is aside the point. I rarely work for free now. I get asked to on numerous student films. And I pass most of the time. Unless it is something that I can network internally and go somewhere with, I won't do it for free.

I rarely ask people to work for me for free anymore. I've had situations where a project fell through and I felt terrible because those working for free got nothing out of it. But at the same time, you sometimes get what you pay for and things don't work out.

But that's my opinion.