Interview Shots from a Corporate Project [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Elton

02-27-2009, 04:48 PM

How did you guys handle sound?
The pics look REAL nice...!

We went old school with a slate and an external audio recorder. Actually, we ran audio out of the Zoom H4 recorder and split it to both camera's inputs, but the quality of the Mark II's audio section isn't even close compared to the recorder.

Here's a crappy pic I snapped with my cell phone of our setup on one shot. Not exactly tidy looking, but the images and sound are amazing.

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1235778225.jpg

Edit: Here's a sample from this interview on Vimeo. http://www.vimeo.com/3604357

Shooting stills before the video

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1235779555.jpg

StormFactory

02-27-2009, 05:11 PM

PappasArts

02-27-2009, 05:17 PM

The way of the future, the way of the future................. Today!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/PappasArts/FQKTFNAF6B7SYJ0MEDIUM.jpg

Elton

02-27-2009, 05:22 PM

The Zoom 4H records to CF cards right?

You said you ran the Zoom 4H into "both" of the Canon 5D Mark II's inputs? Isn't there only one sound jack?

When you say that it wasn't even close, could you elaborate?

Thanks!

Edit: actually SD cards recording 24bit wav files.

We had a cheap little splitter box that sent the audio into both camera's inputs. (two separate xlr to 1/8" adapter cables) This was for backup audio and it doesn't sound that good because the auto gain is not good on the Mark II and can't be defeated.

DavidNJ

02-27-2009, 05:31 PM

Wonderful lens...this really shows...you have DOF control, but also amazing textures in the skin and clothes at few if any under $25k cameras can match.

Manual or not...live HDMI or not...good glass, a big first rate sensor, and very efficient high bandwidth recording seem to have redefined video recording.

Elton

02-27-2009, 06:17 PM

Wonderful lens...this really shows...you have DOF control, but also amazing textures in the skin and clothes at few if any under $25k cameras can match.

It's amazing to have that kind of DOF control in tight spaces. In the bts pic of the girl in front of the bookcases, our wide shot with the Nikkor 17-35 was able to get a nice framing and still get the background to go a little soft. The CU is an 85mm and it's really sweet.

Manual or not...live HDMI or not...good glass, a big first rate sensor, and very efficient high bandwidth recording seem to have redefined video recording.

I would agree.

ESTEBEVERDE

02-27-2009, 07:52 PM

How about some Clips please? :dankk2:

booggerg2

02-27-2009, 09:16 PM

Elton

02-27-2009, 09:30 PM

It's a little Gitzo tripod. We fit our entire production gear into a handful of Pelican cases, including lights.

booggerg2

02-27-2009, 09:34 PM

It's a little Gitzo tripod. We fit our entire production gear into a handful of Pelican cases, including lights.

Is it a video pan head or a still photo head? What model?

ESTEBEVERDE

02-27-2009, 09:51 PM

It's a little Gitzo tripod. We fit our entire production gear into a handful of Pelican cases, including lights.

footage?

Elton

02-27-2009, 10:40 PM

Not able to post footage right now. It looks exactly how you would expect though--we usually shot with 1/60 shutter and there are no rolling shutter issues with lockdown shots and relatively short focal lengths.

ESTEBEVERDE

02-27-2009, 10:43 PM

Not able to post footage right now. It looks exactly how you would expect though.

K

Thanks

Would love to see it when you can. :beer:

Oynk

02-27-2009, 10:51 PM

Spartacus

02-28-2009, 04:37 AM

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1235778225.jpg

This all looks like a well budgeted corporate shoot.
But when looking at your setup, I get mixed feelings.
I know the final product will look stellar.
But how did the various clients react, when you showed up with this DIY setup?
No matter how many things are attached to it - people will still see the bare DSRL in the end.
I wouldn´t hesitate to use this setup in any non-commercial or indie production, but for corporate work?
A pimped HVX still is very convincing if only because of its size.

With this setup I´d feel the need to explain to the client why we choose this tiny cam that looks like the one he got himself last xmas.
And I prefer NOT to get too technical with clients, but I make shure they know we´ll use the "big toys" for their production.
Maybe this all breaks down to the point where people chose the XL2 over the DVX, just because of its more impressive formfactor.

Anyway, please share your experience!:beer:

PS on that shoot at the hangar - are these Richards LED lights?

booggerg2

02-28-2009, 06:18 AM

who cares what the camera looks like I'm more concerned about the 4x2 that everything is attached to..

Spartacus

02-28-2009, 08:27 AM

who cares what the camera looks like(...)
Clients.

taubkin

02-28-2009, 09:16 AM

Clients.

Not all of them. If you have credibility they also take your word you're using the most appropriate equipment possible given the task and budget. I never depended on equipment to impress clients on a set. But that's only a personal point of view.

BMFM FILMS

02-28-2009, 10:45 AM

I wouldn´t hesitate to use this setup in any non-commercial or indie production, but for corporate work?
A pimped HVX still is very convincing if only because of its size.

Once they see the final result, all their worries (if they had any) will have disappeared.

From the grabs I'm seeing, it looks like it was shot on $50k worth of equipment (maybe I'm exaggerating, but come on).

GregJ

02-28-2009, 11:24 AM

Wow. These are just inspiring shots. It's hard to believe they're grabs instead of stills.

Great work. Mind if I ask what you used for lights?

-- Greg

Elton

02-28-2009, 11:44 AM

Not all of them. If you have credibility they also take your word you're using the most appropriate equipment possible given the task and budget. I never depended on equipment to impress clients on a set. But that's only a personal point of view.

Very very interesting statement and basically spot-on in our case. The most important thing to the client is that we were as low profile as possible. The photographer has worked with the client many times and they trusted his judgment; they simply wanted a very quick "hybrid" shoot with stills and video for their annual report to be integrated on the web. The client has had some negative experiences hiring out entire film crews for some of their shoots, and they didn't like the disruptive nature of larger crews, especially at hospitals and smaller clinics.

The idea was to be as lightweight as possible. We were just a 3 person crew. (well, we had a makeup person too) Our entire shoot was powered by batteries and we never plugged in anywhere, which helped speed up everything. We used LED lights for almost everything and they worked great.

It's funny because on one hand you might have some people who wonder why we would use still cameras for video, but once we showed them some footage on the laptop that ended any skepticism.

I also found that shooting with DSLR's does help by simply not being as intimidating as a big ENG camera, or even a pimped out HVX, XL-H1 etc.

Elton

02-28-2009, 11:49 AM

Wow. These are just inspiring shots. It's hard to believe they're grabs instead of stills.

Great work. Mind if I ask what you used for lights?

-- Greg

Don't worry, they really are video grabs. I don't post anything that isn't genuine. I just downsized the ProRes converted clips to 720p and exported jpegs from QT player.

We used FloLight 500's with battery modifications. We also used a lot of little micro LED lights mounted to clamps that we would hang in strategic places in a shot.

I'll try to post a few clips sometime in the near future. It's interesting stuff to look at.

Slice

02-28-2009, 12:15 PM

GregJ

02-28-2009, 12:30 PM

Don't worry, they really are video grabs. I don't post anything that isn't genuine. I just downsized the ProRes converted clips to 720p and exported jpegs from QT player.
at.

Oh, I trust you! As a matter of fact, your work on display here (along with that of disjecta, aka Steve Dempsey) inspired me to get the XHA1; and just recently helped push me off the fence and decide to get the MarkII.

Okay, I admit I probably would have bought it anyway, but seeing what you've done assures me I made the right decision, i.e., if I can achieve half the quality you have, I'll be happy.

--Greg

Elton

02-28-2009, 12:30 PM

Elton, I love the grabs.

Would it possible for you to post a couple of audio clips demonstrating the difference between the Zoom h4 files and the input from the Canon.

I own the D90 and can't stand syncing the external audio tracks.

Yeah, I could probably do that sometime relatively soon. If we had a better converter box like a Beachtek, the difference might not've been as dramatic, but the combination of our cheaper converter plus the pumping limiter/AGC/whatever in the 5D2 made for some fairly hissy audio, but it's still useful as a backup pilot track.

I don't mind syncing audio in post. It's very quick for us and the value of 24bit audio is not to be underestimated. We had a number of shots in noisy environments where the 24bit wav file held up extremely well when processing for noise reduction/filtering frequencies, etc. Way more latitude for that stuff.

Elton

02-28-2009, 01:03 PM

There is some nice interview footage in this piece (http://vimeo.com/3387172?pg=embed&sec=). I am sure it is representative of what is possible with the right set up.

Look forward to seeing the finished piece when you are ready.

Wow, great piece. Man, the potential of this camera with skillful use is just staggering.

I feel like I'm using a mostly painless 'light-gaining' 35mm DOF adapter.

When it's done I'll post a link to the web site it's going to be presented on, in addition to a few higher res bits on vimeo possibly.

Spartacus

02-28-2009, 01:08 PM

Not all of them. If you have credibility they also take your word you're using the most appropriate equipment possible given the task and budget. I never depended on equipment to impress clients on a set. But that's only a personal point of view.

I guess you´re right in some cases, but if they are the norm or the exeption is what I´d like to find out here.
I guess so far you have at least shown up with a DVX for a shoot, still looking "big" enough for most clients.

I have clients who couldn´t care less how things are shot. I have clients who would like me and the crew to be unnoticable most of all. But a general "it all depends on your talent and credibility" is an oversimplification in my view.
Some clients LOVE having a filmcrew around and LOVE seeing how their 50K are beeing spend - maybe I just have the wrong clients in the end:beer:.

Anyway, I´ll wait a little more how this DSLR filming will develop and than I´ll probably add one to my stuff, if only for personal projects or stills:)

ESTEBEVERDE

02-28-2009, 01:16 PM

You can put a dress on any rig to make it look big and important.

The most important thing is the material you are getting from your equipment but I would say that it is also important to have good looking gear whether it is an HV20 or Panavision either way you can make it look the part just to help as a lubricant for your authority as it were.

infurno

02-28-2009, 01:16 PM

I guess you´re right in some cases, but if they are the norm or the exeption is what I´d like to find out here.
I guess so far you have at least shown up with a DVX for a shoot, still looking "big" enough for most clients.

I have clients who couldn´t care less how things are shot. I have clients who would like me and the crew to be unnoticable most of all. But a general "it all depends on your talent and credibility" is an oversimplification in my view.
Some clients LOVE having a filmcrew around and LOVE seeing how their 50K are beeing spend - maybe I just have the wrong clients in the end:beer:.

Anyway, I´ll wait a little more how this DSLR filming will develop and than I´ll probably add one to my stuff, if only for personal projects or stills:)

With due respect, I find it amusing how the only thing you seem to be worried about is the size of the camera. Thats just silly, in the end that's the least important factor.

A client will remember you by the quality of the product, not the complexity of production.

You are hired to do a job, not show off. I agree that presentation is somewhat important but if you notice the trend all cameras are getting smaller. From the Arriflex to the EX1.

taubkin

02-28-2009, 01:36 PM

Some clients LOVE having a filmcrew around and LOVE seeing how their 50K are beeing spend - maybe I just have the wrong clients in the end:beer:.

They should believe they are spending their 50K on you, a piece much more important to the equation, IMHO. :)

mcgeedigital

02-28-2009, 01:53 PM

They should believe they are spending their 50K on you, a piece much more important to the equation, IMHO. :)

If my all of my clients were THAT logical, then I would have no problems.

Reality can be quite different.

Elton

02-28-2009, 01:54 PM

This all looks like a well budgeted corporate shoot.
But when looking at your setup, I get mixed feelings.
I know the final product will look stellar.
But how did the various clients react, when you showed up with this DIY setup?

Well, admittedly it was considered a bit experimental to the client, but they had complete trust in our judgment. We had an HVX on standby if we had any problems, but we'd done plenty of testing ahead of time.

As far interviewees and others, I think they were more relieved and less intimidated than they might've felt in front of a big ENG, pimped out HVX or something like a RED. We could've used much more expensive cameras for the shoot, but the wonderful thing about shooting with DSLR's is that they just don't draw attention to themselves. Nobody comes up to you and asks "is this gonna be on the news"?

That has a lot of value when you're on an extremely tight shooting schedule.

It's definitely true that there are a lot of paying clients out there that want to see their money in the form of big 'I'm expensive'! gear, but those ones usually have no taste either.

StormFactory

02-28-2009, 02:03 PM

This all looks like a well budgeted corporate shoot.
But when looking at your setup, I get mixed feelings.
I know the final product will look stellar.
But how did the various clients react, when you showed up with this DIY setup?
No matter how many things are attached to it - people will still see the bare DSRL in the end.
I wouldn´t hesitate to use this setup in any non-commercial or indie production, but for corporate work?
A pimped HVX still is very convincing if only because of its size.

With this setup I´d feel the need to explain to the client why we choose this tiny cam that looks like the one he got himself last xmas.
And I prefer NOT to get too technical with clients, but I make shure they know we´ll use the "big toys" for their production.
Maybe this all breaks down to the point where people chose the XL2 over the DVX, just because of its more impressive formfactor.

Anyway, please share your experience!:beer:

PS on that shoot at the hangar - are these Richards LED lights?

Do you make good work?

Did your clients hire you based on your good work?

If so, if and when they question what equipment you use, just tell them that you are using the same equipment you used for the project they saw that impressed them enough to give you the job.

Some clients care, most don't. They care about the bottom line and final result. I would say very very few would know the difference between an HVX200 and HVX200A or HPX170.

Yes, the Canon 5D Mark II looks like a DSLR and not a big "impressive" video camera, but if your work is good nobody really cares.

We as filmmakers, photographers, etc. get so caught up in the nerdiness of what specs this and what gear that, that it keeps up from focusing on the final product... which is the final product.

I could show you my photography portfolio and would bet that you couldn't tell whether I shot a photo with my 6MP 300D, the 10MP 40D, or the 21MP 5D Mark II.

Better gear doesn't make you better. Striving to be better makes you better. And the better you are, the more clients will want to hire you. And that brings me back to the original point -- if they like your work, they won't care how or what you shoot on.

Elton

02-28-2009, 02:09 PM

Some clients care, most don't. They care about the bottom line and final result.

Amen and amen.

taubkin

02-28-2009, 02:21 PM

If my all of my clients were THAT logical, then I would have no problems.

Reality can be quite different.

Heh, I know, but it's where I focus my efforts anyway. Doesn't meant it works all of the time but has been working nicely... :beer:

ESTEBEVERDE

02-28-2009, 02:42 PM

Just get a beret! :beer:

mlsphoto

02-28-2009, 03:23 PM

Hey there,

I'm the "photographer" who was hired to produce this stuff, and the client had complete faith in my commitment to delivering the quality I promised.

But,

The quality only partially comes the the 5DII - the real quality comes from Barlow Elton and Matt Hepworth - multi-disciplinary, geniuses I can COUNT on to pretty darn near do anything. This is what really matters - it's how I've built trust for years as a creative person, and it works without fail. Ethics matter - period. Gear is really down the list for me.

Some interesting factoids about this shoot.

Low profile DID matter greatly - I have worked with the television commercial crew which shot 35mm film, High end Video, and Redone cameras while I shot print advertising on jobs like this, and the hospitals ALWAYS HATE the interruption to their mission - ALWAYS. We were complimented this week everywhere we went due to the small size of our crew. That was a bigger plus than a puny camera ever will be a minus.

On Tuesday the 24th of Feb, we shot 9 interviews in 8 different locations - all of the locations were MILES apart in the metro Salt Lake City area - 8 locations - 3 people, with sound and lighting ALL the sets, oh yes, and NOT compromising the stills photography, which I assured the client would look like the movies - and they really do - the images posted by Barlow are indeed from the QT movies - no grading either.

This is a revolutionary camera; it's low-light capabilities really matter to me; but a 3 person crew, with battery powered lights, great audio capabilities, and a really low footprint, that can produce images like we did this week...... That's the real revolution. This camera is KOOKY; Canon knows it by now; It desperately needs manual control and I personally would like variable frame rates and decent on-board audio much more than 24p, but that's just me opening a giant can 'O worms - hah!

MAJOR kudos to Barlow and Matt (And of course, our CRAZY make-up, hair, production coordinator, Penny G).

I would have been content with these people and 2 HVX's (which I do also own BTW) if I had to choose - but I didn't.

Michael Schoenfeld

mlsphoto

02-28-2009, 03:31 PM

SOmeone asked about the small tripod.

I think this is the leg-set:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/567483-REG/Gitzo_GT1531_GT1531_Mountaineer_6X_Carbon.html#spe cifications

This is the head:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/435028-REG/Gitzo_G2180_G2180_Series_1_Fluid.html#accessories

(don't panic - it comes with an arm - don't know why they don't show it.....)

Michael Schoenfeld

Elton

02-28-2009, 04:31 PM

Oh, hey there Michael. You internet whore. ;)

What he said. :)

mlsphoto

02-28-2009, 04:50 PM

Look who's calling the "kettle" black.

Spartacus

02-28-2009, 05:12 PM

Do you make good work?

Did your clients hire you based on your good work?

If so, if and when they question what equipment you use, just tell them that you are using the same equipment you used for the project they saw that impressed them enough to give you the job.

Some clients care, most don't. They care about the bottom line and final result. I would say very very few would know the difference between an HVX200 and HVX200A or HPX170.

Yes, the Canon 5D Mark II looks like a DSLR and not a big "impressive" video camera, but if your work is good nobody really cares.

We as filmmakers, photographers, etc. get so caught up in the nerdiness of what specs this and what gear that, that it keeps up from focusing on the final product... which is the final product.

I could show you my photography portfolio and would bet that you couldn't tell whether I shot a photo with my 6MP 300D, the 10MP 40D, or the 21MP 5D Mark II.

Better gear doesn't make you better. Striving to be better makes you better. And the better you are, the more clients will want to hire you. And that brings me back to the original point -- if they like your work, they won't care how or what you shoot on.

I get your point.
This discussion weather tools or talent get the job done has been going on since the beginning of this site.
I´m not here to prove anything or anyone wrong here.
i just happened to have made other experiences in my carrer as others here have.

I´ve seen stunning footage comming from the 5DII and I´m shure a lot of clients will see 5DII reels and say "This looks gorgeous, I want this too" or sth.

I will be more than happy to serve all the rest of those clients, who appreciate good work and get wet dreams because of our clumsy HVXsgpro setup with all those Kinos and HMIs getting in their way:beer:

Nik Manning

03-01-2009, 11:05 PM

Very Nice Video! So clean.

DavidNJ

03-01-2009, 11:13 PM

Unless they client is paying huge sums, I don't think they care about the equipment, especially if they look good.

1) Script (if you don't know where you are going, you will never get there)

2) Directing (it helps to be able to fly the plane)

3) Editing & DP (tie) (it also helps if the plane can fly)

That said, good production quality is like clean seats and good flight attendants...what the customer sees most.

:)

Elton

03-03-2009, 06:30 PM

Here are a few uncorrected shots that you might recognize from a previous post.

17mm-35mm Nikon, F2.8 (I believe this is at about 20mm)
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1236130032.jpg

85mm Nikon, not sure...I think F 2.8
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1236129993.jpg

Footage is 30p with 180 degree shutter. I'm editing currently and will post some material later on.

Oynk

03-03-2009, 08:45 PM

Thanks for posting Elton.

I have a question. How do you feel about the dynamic range of the compressed 5D footage. For example, are you able to get the detail back in the brightest part of her forhead in the first shot or is it clipped?

I am doing some tests with my Diva kit and I am finding that because this thing is so light sensitive I have to dial back on my usual setup. When I have shots where I want to bring back a bit of detail, it's often not there... What do you think?

cinebuddy

03-03-2009, 09:09 PM

Wow ok...now throw an HVX with adapter into the mix with battery powered LED lights...no way no how can you get that type of exposure. Bye Bye adapter, I don't care about 24p...i'll convert it. I keep downloading clips from this thing and playing them on my PS3...this camera is the shizzle.

Elton

03-03-2009, 09:46 PM

cinebuddy

03-03-2009, 10:26 PM

Elton the whites on your ATV clip were insane!

Oynk

03-03-2009, 10:33 PM

Nice. I am going to do some more dynamic range tests.

These grabs are amazing. It makes me wish that HD went higher than 1080p. The limitation become the format specs not the glass or imaging sensor.

Good stuff!

Emanuel

03-03-2009, 11:41 PM

Oynk:

I feel like the dynamic range is exceptional for the $; it is crunched down to 8bit video after all, but I am seeing recoverable detail that I've never experienced with low cost HD cameras. And the way this camera handles whites...wow.

Yes, like my good friend Michael Schoenfeld (photographer/DP on this project) says...this camera is waaaay kooky, but the core image is insanely good...if you can find the sweet spots.

My own experience working with it tells me that you need to possibly *slightly* protect for highlights in order to exploit the overall image better. You can lift shadows all day long on most stuff ISO 1600 or lower and not pay too much of a price.

a few more grabs...

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1236140626.jpg

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1236140664.jpgGreat framing on the 1st shot Barlow. 2nd goes well too. Who's the 'Sundance' director? :-)

Moreover, I will probably have my unit in stock today or by tomorrow. A special concern: codec. Fair enough for a 35mm blow-up to the theatrical big screen plus? Or should I expect compression artifacts which it shall regret my prior option? What's your entry or guess on the matter?

:dankk2:
E.

Spartacus

03-04-2009, 03:54 AM

Amazing shots!
I may have my doubts about the formfactor, but those grabs impressively show, what a talented DP can do with this baby...!
Am I the only one who´s dreams will be shattered if Canon WON`T release sth similar groundbreaking for the "regular" video market at NAB?

Elton

03-12-2009, 01:20 PM

Here is a sample interview shot. This was a really small room to shoot in and I think it was amazing to even get the books in the background to go slightly soft with so little distance between them and the subject. That's one big advantage to full frame DOF

http://www.vimeo.com/3604357 720p QT is available for download.

.

Tracey Lee

03-12-2009, 01:36 PM

Oynk

03-12-2009, 01:45 PM

Here is a sample interview shot.
.

Your posts from this project are very helpful Elton. Thanks!

Just curious, have you tried intercutting HDV footage with 5d footage? Even as a stylized 2nd camera (the way we used to shoot DV as a second camera to beta).

I am really curious how it cuts. Also, if I had to cut the two I wonder if I would down-convert the 5D to 1080i or up-convert the XHA1 to 1080p. :huh:

Thanks, as always!

Elton

03-12-2009, 03:25 PM

Just curious, have you tried intercutting HDV footage with 5d footage? Even as a stylized 2nd camera (the way we used to shoot DV as a second camera to beta).

I am really curious how it cuts. Also, if I had to cut the two I wonder if I would down-convert the 5D to 1080i or up-convert the XHA1 to 1080p. :huh:

Thanks, as always!

Yeah, I intercut H1 and A1 footage all the time...and they always need a lot of CC to intercut reasonably well with Mark II footage. I also intercut HVX footage quite often, and it's the same story there too.

To me, it just comes down to superior image density and processing in the Mark II, and it's just a different core image in general.

StormFactory

03-12-2009, 03:40 PM

Your posts from this project are very helpful Elton. Thanks!

Just curious, have you tried intercutting HDV footage with 5d footage? Even as a stylized 2nd camera (the way we used to shoot DV as a second camera to beta).

I am really curious how it cuts. Also, if I had to cut the two I wonder if I would down-convert the 5D to 1080i or up-convert the XHA1 to 1080p. :huh:

Thanks, as always!I have just done a series of tests with the HVX200a, HMC150, HV30, and the 5D Mark II. All were with standard settings and there is a stark difference. The 5D Mark II is in another class above the others. Maybe if I spent some time adjusting settings, I could get the others closer without having to do a lot of correction in post.

Also, the 5D Mark II shoots at 30P, not 29.97 like the HMC150, HV30, and the HVX200A shoot. So one way or another you are going to have to convert your footage frame rates to match.

Spartacus

03-12-2009, 04:06 PM

BTW what lavs did you use and did you go straight to the H4 or had a mixer inbetween?
Thanks!

Elton

03-12-2009, 06:31 PM

Sennheiser G2 setup and went straight to the H4

Spartacus

03-13-2009, 02:03 PM

Sennheiser G2 setup and went straight to the H4
Standard me2 lav on the g2?
Sounded good!

Chenopup

03-13-2009, 03:25 PM

didn't look like a standard me2 lav. Looked like a Countryman or similar.

Great stills, Barlow!

mlsphoto

03-13-2009, 04:11 PM

Hey there,

It's a countryman B6 - makes a big difference in quality IMHO.

Barlow's partner in crime,

Michael Schoenfeld

Chenopup

03-13-2009, 07:31 PM

Elton

03-14-2009, 12:46 AM

Michael knows audio much better than me. I didn't realize it was a special lav mic.

Chenopup, maybe that can happen in the near future.

mcvideo

03-14-2009, 08:59 AM

"It's a countryman B6 - makes a big difference in quality IMHO."

Hah - knew it. It actually makes the G2 worth it when you have a mic like that on it ;)

I'd love to tag along, Michael and Barlow next time you go play with this cam! ;)

so this is valid? Countryman b6 used with the G2? Is it as simple as buying the actual mic an just connecting to the G2 transmitters?

Chenopup

03-14-2009, 09:14 AM

so this is valid? Countryman b6 used with the G2? Is it as simple as buying the actual mic an just connecting to the G2 transmitters?

Yup - You just buy the mic with the correct adapter for your wireless system. First thing I usually do when buying sub $1000 lav systems is to replace the mic. Not only that, the stock ones are usually too big for my personal liking.

cheno

mlsphoto

03-14-2009, 08:17 PM

Too big and kinda thin sounding if you ask me.

The B6 is a "rounder" sounding mic, but I think placement on your subject is equally important. Old recording adage; if you want to improve the sound your recording
1- move the mic
2- use a different mic
(In that order)

(My "other" mic is a Schoeps CMIT5) don't hate me.

Now that puppy sounds real round.

Chenopup,

Look me up - I'm pretty easy to find.

Michael Schoenfeld

mlsphoto

03-14-2009, 08:18 PM

Oh, and BTW,

you can order the G2 WITH a B6 from B&H as a kit - or at least you "could".

I did.

ESTEBEVERDE

03-15-2009, 04:01 PM

Did you use the Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8 AF-S and Nikon 85mm f/1.4D AF? Or?

What lens adapter have you found that you like?

A+++ on these grabs and clip!!!

Can't wait to see your final footage!

mlsphoto

03-16-2009, 05:00 PM

Yes to both lenses,

I also have and use a Zeiss ZF 50mm f1.4 (Zeiss for "Nikon" - the newly announced Canon Zeiss lenses have NO aperture ring)

Barlow and I have used the Brevis on the HVX - good, but nothing like the 5DII.

Michael Schoenfeld

ESTEBEVERDE

03-16-2009, 06:21 PM

Yes indeed the Zeiss ZF 50mm f1.4 is a bit expensive though!

Ouch!

$525.00++

I would think the Nikon 50mm f1.4 might be at least as good for $300.00?

Great job.

I like the footage and the stills and hope you can show the whole thing to us soon! :beer"

ESTEBEVERDE

03-16-2009, 06:22 PM

ESTEBEVERDE

03-16-2009, 06:25 PM

The Nikon 50mm f/1.8D AF Nikkor Lens for $135.00 seems like a steal of a deal too!

ESTEBEVERDE

03-16-2009, 07:53 PM

We went old school with a slate and an external audio recorder. Actually, we ran audio out of the Zoom H4 recorder and split it to both camera's inputs, but the quality of the Mark II's audio section isn't even close compared to the recorder.

Here's a crappy pic I snapped with my cell phone of our setup on one shot. Not exactly tidy looking, but the images and sound are amazing.

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1235778225.jpg

Edit: Here's a sample from this interview on Vimeo. http://www.vimeo.com/3604357

...

It looks like you used the 85mm on the profile shot and the zoom on the frontal?

Do you know what ISO and Fstops you were shooting at?

What focal length did you have the zoom pushed into?

Elton

03-17-2009, 02:02 PM

Just the opposite.

85mm on main headshot;p 17mm-35mm (at about 24mm) on the right - look at the LCD screens.

Michael Schoenfeld

ESTEBEVERDE

03-17-2009, 02:45 PM

Just the opposite.

85mm on main headshot;p 17mm-35mm (at about 24mm) on the right - look at the LCD screens.

Michael Schoenfeld

Very Nice!

The cuts actually work quite well and keep it interesting.

The audio is very good too!

GregJ

03-21-2009, 03:23 PM

Hey there,

It's a countryman B6 - makes a big difference in quality IMHO.

Barlow's partner in crime,

Michael Schoenfeld

I' m curious about the Zoom H4 you guys used. Well, actually, I'm considering getting the new H4n but I'm hearing conflicting opinions about how it's great and awful. Many complaints of hiss for quiet passages. Have you experienced that?

Also, the people who hate the Zoom love the Sony pcmd50, which is more expensive and doesn't have XLR inputs. I had thought only mics with XLR connections were "professional." Or is that no longer true?

mlsphoto

03-21-2009, 09:05 PM

Greg,

The H4 is very quiet and it has xlr inputs it "is" a little flimsy for my tastes, but it seems to hold up well - we ended up recording @ 24/96k just to have a little headroom - I'm not convinced it is "essential" (instead of using 16/48K), but Barlow wanted to give it a try - hey, work with/hire geniuses and don't argue!

Michael Schoenfeld

GregJ

03-23-2009, 02:19 PM

Thanks for the info about the Zoom H4, Michael.

Right now I'm torn between the new H4n and the Tascam DR-100, which looks very promising but there are no reviews.

StormFactory

03-23-2009, 02:30 PM

Thanks for the info about the Zoom H4, Michael.

Right now I'm torn between the new H4n and the Tascam DR-100, which looks very promising but there are no reviews.I just got the Zoom H4. Will be giving it a go today with the G2.

Take a look at this thread comparing the Zoom H4 to the Zoom H4n http://dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=164883

Guy_Cochran

03-24-2009, 02:38 PM

Thanks for sharing. Nice results. Here's a similar two camera side by side shoot to get some ideas from. They shot with two HVX's, http://www.apple.com/pro/profiles/wisdom/video1.html

ESTEBEVERDE

03-24-2009, 03:03 PM

Thanks for sharing. Nice results. Here's a similar two camera side by side shoot to get some ideas from. They shot with two HVX's, http://www.apple.com/pro/profiles/wisdom/video1.html

Similar in what sense?

To me it seems that it is only similar in that it uses two cameras neither of which are Canon 5D MK II.

With that said this Zuckerman's work in this case is quite spectacular.

But, I wonder if these cams would have done as well in the same circumstances as we have here?

Guy_Cochran

03-24-2009, 03:33 PM

Similar in what sense?

To me it seems that it is only similar in that it uses two cameras neither of which are Canon 5D MK II.

With that said this Zuckerman's work in this case is quite spectacular.

But, I wonder if these cams would have done as well in the same circumstances as we have here?

Similar in how they used two cameras in a tight space side by side for a medium shot and a close-up, the Zuckerman project has tighter close-ups and really gives an intimate feel. I agree, it's a great project. Love the lighting. Check out their behind the scenes on the Apple site. Beautiful stuff.

Hmm...now I'm really wanting a second 5D Mark II and a 70-200mm 2.8.

For audio, I'm sending Timecode out from the Edirol R-4 Pro wirelessly and recording it as an audio track on the 5D. One track is a shotgun mic on camera for reference, the 2nd track is the TC.
If you're on the Mac, you can use this software to decode the TC and embed it in the QT file. Slick.
http://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=26

ESTEBEVERDE

03-24-2009, 06:20 PM

A step ahead of ya Guy. I downloaded the behind the scenes right away! :grin:

It doesn't look like the behind the scenes shows their set up for their HVXs but I'm sure one of our resident geniuses will be able to figure out pretty much what the shooting distance was. etc...

I love the white backdrop and his lighting set up!

Simply superb!

Makes the whole thing POP! :beer:

ESTEBEVERDE

03-24-2009, 06:23 PM

...

Hmm...now I'm really wanting a second 5D Mark II and a 70-200mm 2.8.

....[/url]

Absolutely!

That and another set of Nikon primes!!!

...

For audio, I'm sending Timecode out from the Edirol R-4 Pro wirelessly and recording it as an audio track on the 5D. One track is a shotgun mic on camera for reference, the 2nd track is the TC.
If you're on the Mac, you can use this software to decode the TC and embed it in the QT file. Slick.
http://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=26

That's a big money set up but it is indeed crazy cool! :thumbsup:

GregJ

03-24-2009, 09:13 PM

[QUOTE=StormFactory;1587801]I just got the Zoom H4. Will be giving it a go today with the G2.

So how'd it go?

Oynk

04-07-2009, 11:40 AM

After two interview shoots with the 5D I have no idea how Michael and Barlow are making this camera work for interviews. My 5D locks up constantly (I presume from overheating). When it happens I the LCD freezes and I have to remove the battery to get it un-stuck. As a bonus, I lose everything from that take. I have waited 30mins to 1hour to let it cool down but it still locks up after 5 mins or so for the rest of the day.

Here are examples of the icon that comes up on the right of the screen when it locks up (notice, the camera is in the 'Off' position but the LCD is still frozen):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3370/3421904014_25b0b051d6.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3299/3421096525_5022357711.jpg

(These shots are from a previous test where the same lock-ups happened. sorry, these shots are with an iPhone)

The first take we lost was a 10min piece of really great interview that I was never able to quite get for the rest of the day. The talent ends up being very aware that they are about to be cut off at any moment. In short, it was awful. Fortunately, it was someone I know so they understood why I was trying to use this camera. It would have otherwise looked really unprofessional.

Of course, the images were fantastic. But the day was a bust. If I had two or three 5Ds at a shoot I could cycle through them. Unless my camera is just defective, from now on, I think my 5D is a B-Roll camera only. I can't afford to lose irreplaceable interview footage.

StormFactory

04-07-2009, 03:49 PM

So how'd it go?I got it but haven't really had time to test it. However, I have a roundtable project that will require 4 people to be mic'ed so I ordered a H4N that should be here this week. I'll need all four XLR inputs.

I'll be able to do side a side by side comparison of the Zoom H4 and Zoom H4N this weekend.

mlsphoto

04-07-2009, 07:16 PM

Oynk,

Michael Schoenfeld here,

Just saw this, and I want to help if I can.

Barlow & I did the following. Religiously.

Cameras Audio capture - feed from H4 into a cheapo preamp which converted the line out to mic in for the camera
Main audio capture - Zoom H4 (Sennheiser G2 wireless with Countryman B6 as main mic)
Cameras Tripod mounted (very little movement needed for either shot)

Photovision disk (Like this - http://www.adorama.com/PVOS24.html) placed in "subject position" (where the light is the same as the subject)
white balance camera
This will allow "fairly consistent exposure/white balance "take-to-take"
Exposure set & locked (Lock button pressed)

Critically focus on subject

Begin shooting (Limited to 12 minutes of course)

Don't know if this is of any help (by now, none of the above is really "rocket science" for those of us who want some illusion of consistency).

Illusion - key word.......

Michael Schoenfeld

Oynk

04-08-2009, 01:00 AM

Begin shooting (Limited to 12 minutes of course)

Michael Schoenfeld

Hi Michael

Thanks for the description. Very helpful.

Did your cameras not overheat and lock-up constantly through the day? Maybe I have a defective unit.

I would get the icon on the right side of the screen (shown above in the photos) and then my camera would immediately freeze and would not power down unless I took the battery out.

I could not get the camera to run for two 12 minute takes before heating up. How did you get through interviews?

Thanks!

Tracey Lee

04-08-2009, 08:16 AM

oynk,

Do you have fast cards? I had to go buy some cords in an emergency last month but they were not fast enough and they almost made things lock up. That's all I can think of. I have usually shot for the max time without problems so maybe it is your camera.

StormFactory

04-08-2009, 09:02 AM

After two interview shoots with the 5D I have no idea how Michael and Barlow are making this camera work for interviews. My 5D locks up constantly (I presume from overheating). When it happens I the LCD freezes and I have to remove the battery to get it un-stuck. As a bonus, I lose everything from that take. I have waited 30mins to 1hour to let it cool down but it still locks up after 5 mins or so for the rest of the day.

Here are examples of the icon that comes up on the right of the screen when it locks up:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3370/3421904014_25b0b051d6.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3299/3421096525_5022357711.jpg

(These shots are from a previous test where the same lock-ups happened. sorry, these shots are with an iPhone)

The first take we lost was a 10min piece of really great interview that I was never able to quite get for the rest of the day. The talent ends up being very aware that they are about to be cut off at any moment. In short, it was awful. Fortunately, it was someone I know so they understood why I was trying to use this camera. It would have otherwise looked really unprofessional.

Of course, the images were fantastic. But the day was a bust. If I had two or three 5Ds at a shoot I could cycle through them. Unless my camera is just defective, from now on, I think my 5D is a B-Roll camera only. I can't afford to lose irreplaceable interview footage.Finally somebody posts a photo of the thorn in my side with the 5D Mark II. I have had the same thing happen to me. Fortunately it has been in situations where I was testing or footage was not critical.

Here is a question for you. What CF Cards are you using? Let me guess. Is it the SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card? If so, I think I found the source of our problem.

I think this issue deserves it's own thread.

reem12

04-08-2009, 10:45 AM

I was told nothing under a 300times card will give you reliability. Although the card are expensive If you want more relability you'll half to pay.

StormFactory

04-08-2009, 11:34 AM

My SanDisk Ultra II 4GB card records with no problems and no lock up, so the 300x is not close to accurate. My SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card -- faster than the Ultra II -- locks up. The posts that I've read where people have lock-ups have used the Extreme III. I've read that many people use 133x without problem. I just think that there might be a problem with the SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card and the 5D Mark II video mode.

Oynk

04-08-2009, 11:57 AM

Here is a question for you. What CF Cards are you using? Let me guess. Is it the SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card? If so, I think I found the source of our problem.

I think this issue deserves it's own thread.

Wow! You are exactly right.. I was shooting on the Extreme III 8Gb.. I do have some 4Gb cards too. I'll have to pick up some additional cards.

Thank you. Very helpful. I will get some new cards today and try them out.

mlsphoto

04-08-2009, 04:49 PM

Oynk,

hah! probably could be the cards - I have only used some new 16GB Sandisk Extreme IV (rated at 45 MB per second.

Maybe that's the issue here? Hmmmm.......

Michael Schoenfeld

Emanuel

04-08-2009, 09:11 PM

Is there anyone who knows if there is the same problem with the Extreme III 16Gb capacity card?

mccutch

04-09-2009, 08:48 PM

Did you guys buy on ebay? There is a warning out about fake sandisk cards

http://reviews.ebay.com/FAKE-SanDisk-Extreme-Compact-Flash-Cards-Exposed_W0QQugidZ10000000001456539

Oynk

04-09-2009, 10:15 PM

Did you guys buy on ebay? There is a warning out about fake sandisk cards

http://reviews.ebay.com/FAKE-SanDisk-Extreme-Compact-Flash-Cards-Exposed_W0QQugidZ10000000001456539

Nope. I bought at Best Buy.

Finster

04-10-2009, 03:17 PM

Please direct me to the appropriate thread if this has already been discussed ...

Why are you guys using Nikon lenses? I mean, I know they're top notch, but if I had a 5DII could I use my Canon EF 24-105 f/4 and still get similar results?

What are the advantages to using the Nikon lenses?

And what mount are you using???

puredrifting

04-12-2009, 04:45 PM

Finster:

People are using Nikons because they have manual aperture rings, allowing you to eliminate one more variable of having the 5D pick the aperture.When using Nikons, YOU get to choose aperture, hence depth of field and then you only have to wrestle the camera for control of the shutter speed and ISO.

Nikons are also cheaper, you can get a great AIS 50mm 1.4 prime for about $150.00

The mounts most are using are the Kawa adapters available on EBay for about $10.00

I like the Canon lenses but for video shooting, the Nikons are better. You can use your stock 24-105 but it is slow and cost a lot and you will have to fight the camera to chose the aperture or do the mylar or unmount tricks.

D

Finster

04-12-2009, 08:42 PM

puredrifting - I'm tracking with you. Thanks for taking the time to explain. Much appreciated!

Elton

04-19-2009, 08:13 PM

Here's another interview sequence from the project. http://www.vimeo.com/4232748

Original QT file is available.

Grab:
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1236140626.jpg

Byrd McDonald

04-19-2009, 09:03 PM

Thanks to Elton and his crew for this great post - essentially a master class on shooting, lighting, and recording a classy little 2-camera doc shoot.

I just shot for a corporate client in China with my trusty, rusty, heavy and predictable HVX-200, but brought along my 5D II as a b-cam, which I shot 3 of my 15 run-n-gun interviews with.

My light bulb moment was around how much more relaxed subjects are with the what they perceive as a still camera. As in, they were soooo natural and unguarded. This is the reason the camera will work for me despite gotchas here and there. It's lite, it's practical, and people aren't freaked out.

My ONE concern is that so many of us are going to be using this camera in the next 12 months that we are going to see an over-abundance of static, overly composed interview scenes. In my heart, that is the problem with the camera - that the energy of handheld shooting - punch ins, whip pans, slow zooms, whatever - is last. Obviously, camera movement is only one aspect, but i fear it's going to be too uptight and stuffy shooting a lot of interview footage with this camera.

That said, most people need to quit moving their cameras around so much...

Tony_Reyes

04-19-2009, 10:31 PM

Byrd I agree that we will have this great tool and 'use-to-be' plain sit down interviews will look amazing. Almost too good. Weird huh?

But at the same time throwing in there some handheld with snap zooms will be that much more apparent now. I guess I'm trying to say that maybe this is making the locked off shot more appealing? It stands on its own much better. Like it sticks out.

morgan_moore

04-20-2009, 12:50 AM

I started off being a lock off freak

this footage does look a bit static as locked off - particularly when cut with the wild movement of the steadytracker

I think the answer is subtle pans or tilts while on sticks to make the footage 'breath' - or even mini whip pans - for that 'the office' look

Or of course a slider of some nature

Absolute lockoffs work maybe where the subject is moving (see sergio leone)

Also his eyeline is a bit strange - he appears to be talking to the cupboard - again I started out asking interviees to look to an imaginary point - but now think real eye contact is essential either with me or a reporter or another subject

S

ESTEBEVERDE

04-20-2009, 09:39 AM

Eyeline looks interesting and pleasing to me.

I would have to see the whole thing to really get a complete impression and perspective.

mlsphoto

04-20-2009, 04:08 PM

kidepic

04-20-2009, 05:35 PM

Michael, I would agree with you on that sentiment. What I loved about your video was it's effective simplicity in communicating the subject. Sometimes it's easy to forget that less is in fact more. Keep up the good work!

mlsphoto

04-20-2009, 05:52 PM

kidepic,

Thanks for your kind words - that's why Barlow and I decided to work together - be both ascribe to that ethic.

Michael Schoenfeld

morgan_moore

04-21-2009, 02:01 PM

another thing to consider is:

This "interview" was conducted in a busy pharmacy, during business hours with plenty of customers 10 feet away - very noisy too - I had the subject looking at/talking to the interviewer - eye-line, as far as I'm concerned, is fine for me and my client; they are deliriously happy.

I'm just an "old fashioned" kinda shooter - movement "should" be MOTIVATED by a purpose - serving the story / moving the story along. I'm not a big fan of movement for movement's sake - it's just too popular for me right now - kinda like shallow depth of field just "because" you can.

When it serves the story it's so much more powerful - I think.

Michael Schoenfeld

You video is great - I really like what the 5d can do in these enviromments - you are using a great tool well

On the eyeline - I just think he is, being right in frame, kind of looking out of the picture drawing the eye away from the screen

We dont know why - of course your final cut may have a scene setter showing the interviewer

On the lock off - you are right the camera should move for a reason

I have been pondering this - maybe with tighter framing in the interview the minor movements of the subject would cause reason to move the camera (subtly) and give a little more life to the shot

Another little thing - is the B sound completely killed ? IMO it should be there - just

S

rapsucks

05-26-2009, 05:25 AM

SLC represent. I've been pretty absent on these boards lately, but this whole vDSLR thing has got my juices flowing again.

Michael, it's nice to see you and yours putting out great stuff on these tools.

For my two cents, I think I'm going to do any audio with an external mic going straight into a laptop/netbook. There are plenty of freeware recording apps, and the same way as with DATs, if your audio rolls every time your video rolls, you'll have two parallel lists of files. Synching would be annoying, but not restrictively so.