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puredrifting
02-26-2009, 09:42 PM
Hi all:

Very interested in the HPX300 but how does AVC Intra work with Final Cut?

1. Can you use AVC Intra in the normal open timeline in FCP, mixing it with DVC Pro HD and SD footage?

2. How does FCP ingest AVC Intra? Is it still through Log and Transfer and do you need some special plug-in?

3. Can you edit AVC Intra with a Power PC G5 or is it Intel only like every other format seems to be these days?

4. Is the AVC Intra 100 the same bandwidth and DVC Pro HD at 1080?

Thanks for any recommendations on this, I have to get up to speed on AVC Intra.

Dan

kevinM
02-26-2009, 10:13 PM
Hi all:

Very interested in the HPX300 but how does AVC Intra work with Final Cut?

1. Can you use AVC Intra in the normal open timeline in FCP, mixing it with DVC Pro HD and SD footage?

2. How does FCP ingest AVC Intra? Is it still through Log and Transfer and do you need some special plug-in?

3. Can you edit AVC Intra with a Power PC G5 or is it Intel only like every other format seems to be these days?

4. Is the AVC Intra 100 the same bandwidth and DVC Pro HD at 1080?

Thanks for any recommendations on this, I have to get up to speed on AVC Intra.

Dan

Dan,

1. No, FCP does not support direct editing of AVC-Intra in the timeline. When you ingest the footage through Log and Transfer, FCP transcodes it to ProRes 422.

I've heard rumors that Apple is expected to announce native AVC-I support in the next update. This will be a welcomed feature.

2. Yes, you get the footage into FCP via Log and Transfer. No special plug-in is needed but you do have to install the AVC-Intra codec that Quicktime uses and is in turn used by FCP.

You can get it here: https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/desk/e/download.htm

3. Nope. It is Intel Mac only. I ingested HPX300 footage provided by Andy Shipsides on my MacBook Pro and moved the resulting ProRes 422 files to My G5 to edit and view in a production monitor. Bit of a pain so an upgrade to an Intel MacPro is in order.

4. They are both 100 mbits per second if thats what you mean. DVC PRO HD is 8 bit and AVC-I is 10 bit but the codec is more efficient so there is more information stored in the same size file. About 1G per minute for both.

Hope this helps.

Kevin M

puredrifting
02-26-2009, 10:36 PM
Kevin:

Thank you so much for the information. That is great! So it sounds like the same workflow I will have to use for my little cheapie Canon Vixia. Ingest on my MBP, turn into Pro Res 422 and transfer over to the my G5 PPC.

Yes, someday after I pay off bills, buy an HPX300 and sell a couple of shows to Discovery, then I will get a new Mac Pro. But other than this, my G5 is fine and my Kona card and homemade SATA RAID are very happy inside of it.

Very helpful!

Dan

n8ture
02-27-2009, 03:31 AM
I have yet to be able to get Log and Transfer to work with AVC-Intra files. I've got the codec and the Log and Transfer shows that AVC-Intra files will be transcoded to ProRes but can never get anything to show up in the window to be able to transcode.

So, I picked up Calibrated's software that lets me bring AVC-Intra right into FCP without transcoding and it works great, no hassles at all.

kevinM
02-27-2009, 07:29 AM
Interesting.

Could it be a problem with the files?

I don't have access to a P2 card with AVC-I footage on it so I cant test the workflow from one end to the other.

The files I downloaded were the same structure as a folder on a P2 card - lastclip file and all, and FCP recognized and ingested them ok.

Here is the link to the Shipsides clips.

http://dl009.filefactory.com/cache/dl/f/af0e22g//b/8/h/c0e1c42fd48ad29b50f5e266/n/HPX300-AVCI100.zip

Scroll all the way down for the link to download without signing up.

Wish I could help, Kevin. It's no fun to have to add steps to a workflow if you don't have to.

Best,

Kevin M

Barry_Green
02-27-2009, 07:40 AM
Marc Irwin of Panasonic Europe said in his HPX301 interview that Apple was going to add native codec support to FCP, but he said he expected the announcement from Apple "this year" so... there's a lot of year left.

With that said, I saw how Kevin was working with it, and it was absolutely effortless. If you have FCP and you install the Panasonic AVC-Intra decoder and Calibrated, you already have native codec support. You can edit right off the card or directly off the offloaded MXF files. I don't know how the playback performance compares between the native file format and a converted ProRes file, but yes you can do native support right now if you get the Calibrated software.

When/if Apple does introduce integrated native support, I would wager that they still wouldn't allow editing of the native MXF files, they'll probably still require you to convert the files from MXF to Quicktime. With Calibrated you don't have to even do that.

kevinM
02-27-2009, 08:00 AM
Hey, That's pretty cool.

Downloaded the demo.

kyle_doris
02-27-2009, 08:20 AM
It worked through Log and Transfer for me through the camera's PC Mode using USB 2.0.

puredrifting
02-27-2009, 09:15 AM
Good to hear guys and thanks for the tip on Calibrated Kev.

Dan

hotchkiss
02-27-2009, 10:09 AM
... or is FCP 6 the ticket?

In other word is there a way to ingest the intra files, convert them to Pro res and edit them on my G5 and FCP 5.1.4 without springing for a new Intel machine or FCP 6 ?

The Calibrated software apparently does not work on G5's .... bummer.

puredrifting
02-27-2009, 12:39 PM
hotchkiss:

I think a lot of us are in the same boat, I feel your pain. 2009 and the global economic meltdown is not the time for me to buy a new Mac Pro. Gotta make money this year, pay off bills, not buy new video gear.

G5 will have to get me through at least this year so I am curious if I will be able to craft at least a semi-usable workflow using my MBP to convert AVCHD and AVCIntra to Pro Res and how my G5 will handle just editing the Pro Res.

D

David Saraceno
02-27-2009, 12:47 PM
What about converting to NeoScene and going that route?

There is a free demo.

Billy Morocco
02-27-2009, 05:08 PM
Great to find this thread.
I've recently been on a few HVX shoots as "media wrangler", and thanks to reading here, I've been well prepared.

I've been asked to help on a shoot next week, maybe using the 300.
The DP says they will also have an HPX 3000. So I'm trying to get up to speed on AVC-Intra.

I downloaded those test clips. And the codec. So I can see them, MOS, in QT, but I can't seem to get them to show up in L&T in FCP.

I'm guessing it's an Easy Set-up issue. If I know I'm going to be transcoding, what Easy set-up do you use?

Thanks in advance,

Billy

David Saraceno
02-27-2009, 05:16 PM
Go to post 2 in this thread.

FWIW, the HPX300 won't be released until end of March.

Billy Morocco
02-27-2009, 06:45 PM
David,

Thanks. They did eventually show up, using "all formats" - it just took a while.

And I guess you've cleared up another point that I was wondering about. the email I got asking for my assistance referred to both "Panny 300" and "Panny 3000" and I wasn't sure if it was a misprint, since I'd read a bit of the new 300.
I'd never even heard of the 3000, yet.

Best,
Bill

David Saraceno
02-27-2009, 06:50 PM
good luck

Barry_Green
02-28-2009, 12:04 PM
The 3000 is a long-established product, it's basically Panasonic's answer to the Sony F950. The 3000 and 3700 are the top of the Panasonic lineup.

jmarkham
02-28-2009, 05:56 PM
which of the calibrated software packages did you use? is it the MXF
one?

jeff

n8ture
02-28-2009, 06:00 PM
Yep, Calibrated{Q} MXF

jmarkham
03-01-2009, 05:41 PM
Ah, but you lose the 10-bit color .. which is kind of a drag..
jeff