Revenge [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

lawriejaffa

02-28-2009, 02:32 PM

Oh its a bit tough! You know the difficulty I find with writing short film/short stories is the great hook - the angle that sometimes lets something shine through.

Im mostly a producer, and am getting fixated with all the wrong things with the script haha. So what im trying to do is to get to the heart of my short script story rather than worry about a cool thang to make it stand out.

Setting it in Scotland isnt to make it different or 'cool' (my er haggis western) is haggis set simply cos i am scottish. Im picking a really violent period of history to utilise as my stories backdrop, but its a time that will be really unfamiliar to most readers probably - so ive got to compensate without overcompensating for that!

nouou

03-01-2009, 05:17 PM

tagline sounds hard to fit into 6-10 pages. will read this.

seansshack

03-05-2009, 04:08 AM

Cheers - page limit never makes it easy. But helps in writing tight scripts.

xxrotinivol2

03-08-2009, 01:18 PM

Sounds like a story with a lot of possibilities for fun action and character depth. Looking forward to reading it.

seansshack

03-08-2009, 04:25 PM

Cheers. Testing it on producers/directors/writers and thumbs up so far.

seansshack

03-14-2009, 11:58 AM

OK - polished and proof read.

Ready to pull the trigger...............

jamiejay

03-24-2009, 03:34 PM

hey sean, glad to see you entered. i'm looking forward to seeing what you came up! always entertaining! :)

jamie

seansshack

03-25-2009, 12:51 AM

Thanks I hope you like it....

Tormod

03-25-2009, 05:44 AM

I liked it! Cool story and well written.

I loved the dialogue/V.O. Good structure and I love the supernatural element in the end!

Only gripe is the flashbacks. It just didn`t feel right, and I didn`t feel it added to the story. I like the last flashback when they stand in a circle around him, but I felt the ones during the shootout just ruined the flow of the scene.

But a really cool story and it was great. it really was!

seansshack

03-25-2009, 06:24 AM

Cheers.

I felt the flashback were needed to visually convey his story and journey.

With stylish white (dare I say "smash cuts") it would make the shoot out a more of a emotional/visual experience - rather than having him talk about it in voice over.

We need to experience that "dreaded" moment with him to make it much more than a bullet flying experience.

Thanks again

Sean

krestofre

03-25-2009, 12:39 PM

I think this script works really, really well. Sean, I think you've grown the most as a screenwriter since these scriptfests started. This is your best effort to date.

***SPOILERS***

"This round's on the sheriff" Excellent line!

seansshack

03-25-2009, 12:57 PM

Thanks man. Really means a lot when the hard work is noticed.

This script was a lot of fun to write as it contains a lot of story, action and drama into such a short running time.

It ended up being something I would love to shoot myself if I had access to the resources to do such.

Thanks again for reading and commenting.

nouou

03-25-2009, 01:35 PM

wow

you structured this really well. the action was very accurate and didn't confuse me at all. i've only read a few, and no disrespect to other writers, but this is my favorite script thus far. a tip of my hat to you, sir.

seansshack

03-25-2009, 01:57 PM

Thanks. Kind words indeed.

Much appreciated.

Russell Moore

03-25-2009, 02:04 PM

Very good! I thought everything worked.

You really wrote the action well, it flowed nicely and was always clear as to what was happening.
You did a great job of using V.O., and flashbacks, intercutting them throughout. Its no easy task to use all those elements and make it work, but you did it.

The story had emotional impact and that gave all the action more weight. I liked the ending twist and it basically turns out to be a happy ending.

Great work Sean!

seansshack

03-25-2009, 02:22 PM

Thanks man. You seemed to catch all the elements I had in there - which means they worked.

Thanks again.

lawriejaffa

03-25-2009, 03:43 PM

Hey there man!

This is a solid piece of work - but i think in part a little bit unoriginal but that is quite subjective and id like to talk about what i think rocked about it first. The voice over is well executed, the general atmosphere and descriptions are really exciting - and the macho ness of the hero is god like! The twist at the end is okay but seems a little tagged on for my liking.

The style of this story and its characterisations are brilliant - I love it and would love to see this get made into a short. But it is in my book a little circumstantial in some respects and that can make some of what occurs seem slightly superficial.

So our hero takes revenge after he is betrayed (the reason why in the script is basically nihilism, but i think it needs more you know?) There is a lot of macho style in the voice over - but it lacks depth. We basically have our hero flexing his muscles for 3 pages saying 'I AM GONNA KICK ASS AND CHEW BUBBLE GUM - and im alll outta gum!'

In a way this kind of reminded me of the movie remake they did of Yojimbo 'Last Man Standing' with Bruce Willis - where as Yojimbo and its depth (lost in that particular remake) is perhaps just the dose this script needs. Because with some depth (beyond the simple revenge and circumstantial ghost ending) this combined with the brilliant writing for the fights, style and characterisation would make this as kick ass as our heroe's gun toting ability!

seansshack

03-25-2009, 04:06 PM

Thanks.

Spoilers

Wouldn't agree it is tagged on as he didn't know he was dead.

He was so driven by revenge he felt he had forgotten how to live as explained in the final scene with the badges. But in fact he was so driven he forgot how to die....

Thanks for reading and comments.

lawriejaffa

03-25-2009, 04:13 PM

Yeah but its a hell of an assumption ;) It didn't gel quite for me - but in the execution of the film perhaps thats an idea that can also be put on director wise. As a director and producer mainly I often think just how the realisation of a script can help put across ideas that one might find difficult to believe fully from the written page!

It wouldnt be fun getting feedback if you didn't get some frustrating criticisms about things you think are juuust perfect and fine already! hehe apparently my nude riot scene at the end of mine just wasnt good enough for some people hehe ;)

Blaine

03-25-2009, 06:20 PM

:)I can see the pitch for this now. Oh, you know, it's Outlaw Josey Wales meets Blade Runner meets High Plains Drifter meets Gladiator.:)

And therein lies my problem with this one. It's like an amalgam of things I've seen before.

You did some things well and others not so well. First, the Good:

I liked you protagonist. I felt his pain. And you did a good job with your use of flashback. They served the story well. I thought your bad guys were done well, too. Good gun fight.

Now, the Bad:
The voice over. I reread the opening and it was just as effective without the V.O. There was nothing in it that help tell the story. It felt as if it were done for style. The two spots the V.O. did work were the carry over to the flashback and Peter's "But we killed you!"

and, the Ugly:
HE'S ALREADY DEAD! Of course he wasn't afraid to die (as his V.O. tells us) because he's already dead. This just crushed what was looking to be a damned fine story for me. Even High Plains Drifter gave a little wiggle room (not much, though). And when the three of them were walking together through the grass, the ending of Gladiator flashed before my eyes.

Please excuse the whole The Good, the Bad and the Ugly thing. With the western theme, I couldn't help myself. :embarasse It makes the review sound more scathing than it is. As I said, you were on your way to a damned fine story but lost me when I found out he was already dead.

That's not going to be a deal breaker with everyone, though. I'm sure this would probably be fun to shoot AND you could find someone to shoot it. If we ever have a WesternFest, LossFest, or RevengeFest it might be cool to see someone shoot this.

I really am serious about his V.O., though. It plays just as well without it. Read it without it and think Blade Runner. While some like the V.O. in the theatrical release (I count myself as one of those) the majority seem to like the director's cut without the V.O. In your case, however, I prefer it without the bulk of the V.O., particularly in the opening.

TimCollins

03-25-2009, 07:57 PM

Hey man, I read this and enjoyed it... but I also had a few things to mention.

The voice over at the beginning - I don't mind so much that it's there... I like voiceovers that get us into the mind of the main character as an introduction - plus the foreshadowing was a good plus. But, I think it could've been cut down or condensed a little into fewer lines.

The shootout in the bar was well written and I did not mind the flashback cuts interspersed in there, but one thing that did slow it a bit for me was the few voiceovers inbetween the action. I think the action would flow alot better without those - in script form and if it was ever produced.

And the ending - As some have said already it felt like a combination of the Sixth Sense and Gladiator. I must admit, in MOST cases I would not like a Sixth Sense ending but you went about it a little differently - so, in this case I found it acceptable. Also, because you really feel for the character and it's good to have him reunite with his family. I liked the fact that rage had been keeping him from resting peacefully and once he got his revenge, he could rest in peace.

Anyway, I hope some of this is helpful. None of that is meant to be criticism but rather just suggestions. It was well written, good job, man!

seansshack

03-26-2009, 12:01 AM

Thanks guys.

I'm a fan of VO when uses right, but often it is over used. In this case we're getting the gun fighters insight to a gunfight.

+ I guess you could compare a lot of movies + scenes to others - how many times have we seen "that clip" from the forgotten in movie and tv series (where the truck hits). Strong images are the hardest to forget.....

Thanks again.

Sarah Daly

03-26-2009, 05:39 AM

Hey Sean,

I liked this - very slick, moody, stylish.

Some of the same issues as others. I like the V.O but think the voiceover on the first page slowed things down a little. Your lead makes a similar point a few times so you could easily cut some of this.

Also, maybe this is just me, but I wasn't sure what I should be picturing some of the time? This could take place in any era, which is great, but I felt I needed to be grounded better in the location and time of the story.

I also think there's a little over-exposition on what happened to his family - there are the flashbacks, the graves and he actually says it too. Don't think you need all this. Even just cutting some of the flashbacks would help the flow and pace.

Overall though, this is very well written. Snappy, great dialogue. A really dark and bitter tone that you set well from the start and a satisfying, logical close. The twist works too but again, you sort of shove it down our throats with the guy repeating that they already killed him, and him going to his own grave. Just a little tweaking and this would be more subtle and effective.

I'm just nit-picking, sorry - been doing some hardcore script editing myself lately :)

Great concept though and really, very well executed. A fun read.

seansshack

03-26-2009, 07:00 AM

Thanks Sarah.

I'll try and tackle your script in the next day.:thumbup:

Frank Witkam

03-26-2009, 07:31 AM

I really enjoyed the first bar scene in this one. If you can write as well as that you can keep my attention without letting too much happen yet. The only thing that bugged me, and yes it's been said many times in this thread before, the voice-over. But for me it's just a matter of taste, I'm not a fan of voice-overs at all.

I think less plot and explaining would have made this a great script. You really had my attention when there wasn't much happening, but when a lot was happening plotwise, I lost attention. Still very good effort, I really liked the protagonist.

George Andrade

03-26-2009, 01:35 PM

I just got a chance to take a look at your short script, and I like it very much. Very deft handling of the Western that could have gone melodramatic and cliched in a heartbeat - but didn't! The story flowed liked a crystal clear stream, and your use of flashback was seamless (to me) - I wasn't jolted from the story, rather seeds were planted that informed further what I was witnessing in a precise and non-gratuitous way. My trust for you as the storyteller grew as I read. :-)

I loved the idea of "this round is on the sheriff"! Very neat button-up to the shots of whiskey laid out in the beginning ... I was very satisfied as a reader and silently tipped my hat.

I also liked very much - and tipped my hat to you again as a fellow storyteller - the use of the badges representing the many shields with which we endow our positions and titles to fend off our sense of fear and hate and vengeance (to name a few), and how these simply drop away once we're dead ... literally and figuratively in "Revenge"! :-D Good stuff.

Oh - and you held your cards so well that it never dawned on me - was never obvious to me - that John was a ghost, LOL! Again, kudos in avoiding one of the cliched traps you could have easily tumbled into.

A few things to mention (if you will pardon my presumption to do so):
In the sequence:

"John raises his head and Tom’s face drops as he reaches for
his gun.
TOM
You...How?

John stands and slides out of his wet rain coat as he draws
the two guns from under each arm.

John points his gun but is too slow to react. John pulls back
on each of the hammers and fires both weapons.

Tom is hit twice in the chest and is thrown backwards by the
impact of the bullets. He lands dead on the dirty wooden
floor of the bar."

... should it be written: TOM points his gun but is too slow to react? And then John nails him?

And:

"Both shots hit Jim and he is knocked backwards dead. John
swings around and aims at another target. This time it’s the
Bat Tender who cowers in the corner shaking."

I love vampires as much as the next guy, but there's only room for one ghoul in this ghost story, and shouldn't it be the BARTENDER rather than BAT TENDER? LMAO!

Well, excellent read Sean. Thank you for sharing, bro.

MrKilloran

03-26-2009, 10:11 PM

Instead of the V.O. at the beginning and other scenes where they are in the bar, or physically in the present, why not have him talking to the bartender, etc. Just actually have the dialogue in the scene. It can happen in the present instead of past tense.

Any V.O. that happens over the flashbacks works fine, so does the constant "But we killed you!" from Peter that torments John at the end.

I agree with Sarah about the over-exposition with the family.

"John points his gun but is too slow to react. John pulls back on each of the hammers and fires both weapons."
I was just confused by this sentence. What is John too slow to react to? or are the other men too slow to react and its a typo?

You had pain-stricken hero that I could really feel compassion for and some good villains. It all ties together with some great, well-written, descriptive action! I really liked the shootout immensely .

TimCollins

03-27-2009, 03:22 AM

Nice avatar sean!

Finally caught that movie the other day for the first time..

seansshack

03-27-2009, 04:31 AM

yeah. Excellent flick. I've studied it for a short of mine.

The more I watched it, the more I liked it - except for the few mistakes.

What did you think of it?

TimCollins

03-27-2009, 05:41 AM

I thought it was great. I'd always heard about the famous "movie that goes in reverse" but it took me a long time to actually see it. I was really impressed by how well it was done - very original. Being an aspiring writer, the structuring was very impressive. And I had no idea Christopher Nolan co-wrote and directed it so that was cool to figure out. I love his work on Batman Begins and especially Dark Knight.

seansshack

03-27-2009, 06:09 AM

Yeah I read a story recently of how they wrote and pitched it. No one wanted to touch it, but everyone wanted it made. First time company pitched in the money and the rest is history.

Was based on a short story idea that Johnathan Nolan wrote.

Oscar nod and all. Fascinating stuff.

DarkElastic

03-27-2009, 06:15 AM

Hi Sean, I've just read your script and I enjoyed the ride.

The whole first section I could see in slow motion with the voice overs and the quick flashbacks in black and white. Yes it is stylised but it would look great.
Ok, we all agree this story has been done time and again, but it is still very enjoyable and very easy to read. As a father, the child killing stuff always makes me feel for the hero these days and want him to get revenge... You all will know when you have kids!!!
The ending, you have to like the supernatural elements to appreciate it. I didn't mind it at all. It also reminded me of some of the revengeful sprit films out there and maybe a new take on it would have freshened the whole script up for the masses... But it was still a very strong script.

Overall, I really enjoyed it, even though the idea isn't fresh. Well done.

Tim Joy

03-27-2009, 06:52 AM

It grabbed me from the beginning and was action-packed and very visual with just enough words.. not too many. I really liked the ending and also the VO. Great job! First one I read, and I hope to see more like it.

seansshack

03-27-2009, 07:04 AM

Thanks.

In the first draft it was a standard revenge script. He killed them all and left their badges on his families grave.

But for me a short needs impact as you have such little room to breath. So I wanted a twist of him being dead. But the murder of his family, of his child prevent him from resting. He thus us not aware that he is dead, so driven by his lust for revenge.

So I went for the happy ending whereby these people who had so much wrong done to them in this world would have the chance to perhaps live in peace in the next.

After writing it I remembered the High Plains Drifter that I have seen as a child. But then began to think, one could accuse the Sixth Sense of riping that off if they wanted. So decided I wanted to tell these story...

DarkElastic

03-27-2009, 07:14 AM

You write what you like my friend... It is very hard to write something totally fresh these days. You can't please everyone!!!

seansshack

03-27-2009, 12:27 PM

You can't please everyone!!!

so true.

I read recently where someone listed the Dark Knight as one of the worst films they had ever seen....go figure.

TimCollins

03-27-2009, 12:39 PM

I read recently where someone listed the Dark Knight as one of the worst films they had ever seen....go figure.

Blasphemy!

But that's true, every film has haters.

NJPage

03-27-2009, 02:28 PM

Hi there! Well you either like western supernaturals or you don't... and I liked this script.
The topic of V Overs keeps recurring in your feedback, but I fail to see how you could have worked the storyline without the V O's. I mean c'mon, VO's have to be the best method of communication for the undead - not that it spoilt the surprise - okay, not a total shock to find out John is actually dead, but I was enjoying the read regardless.
Well done!
PS. One crit. - your title 'Revenge' - a bit ordinary and TOO explanatary - whot 'bout...
'...The Law Won' ???

seansshack

03-27-2009, 02:30 PM

Cheers. I like the title and is very important as it ties into the ending and the badges - would work better in the visual medium (if shot).

Thanks again.

Mark C

03-27-2009, 03:31 PM

So, this one was awesome! It reminded me of a great end scene in a movie called Hard to Kill. (When Steven Seagal goes to the house of the men who killed his family and wipes them all out) Forgive me for referencing that flick if you hate it but I love that type of motivation for a character. You could almost feel John's heart pumping for revenge. (Great title by the way.) Plus it's got a super cool twist ending. Aside from personally just wanting to know a little bit more on why the sheriff's men would do such a horrible thing, I think this would make one really great short film!

seansshack

03-27-2009, 04:00 PM

Thanks you had me on Awesome !!!

arroway

03-28-2009, 12:04 AM

very stylized. a lot of cool little moments. i though the VO was a tad overdone but good overall. the last shot reminded me of gladiator. i like the twist but i'm not sure if it's set up enough. i wanted a little bit more of an explanation. a few more clues along the way to make us wonder and then realize retrospectively what they meant. the sixth sense, for instance, was FULL of clues that all made sense afterward.

forgive me if any of the following has already been pointed out, i don't read the other reviews before i do my own.

John points his gun but is too slow to react. John pulls back
on each of the hammers and fires both weapons.

is there a name mix up here?

Shades of glass fall down on Jim.

shards.

This time it’s the
Bat Tender who cowers in the corner shaking.

bar tender. and isn't "bartender" one word?

John turns and looks to the adjoining room as he swallows his
spit.

too much spit swallowing going on. the bartender did this just a few pages prior.

seansshack

03-28-2009, 04:55 AM

Thanks - those darn 'istakes.

Thanks for reading and reviewing.

RodThompson

03-29-2009, 07:27 AM

Well played! Good, smooth style and the flow was like on the good side of a lazy river. Not too fast in the rapids, nor were we sitting in a conoe on the shore. See what I mean?

My only gripe would be the origininality of the story, ala The Crow, Gladiator, (insert revenge movie here). Granted, that is the title of the short, and I liked the play on the Deputy being the bad guy, but I guess I was just expecting some cool twist on the reason for revenge.

You writing style is on point, and typos are typos...it happens. Other than the overall premise, the short was gnarly!

seansshack

03-29-2009, 12:34 PM

Thanks for reading + comments.

jamiejay

03-30-2009, 08:31 PM

first, you did a good job with it and people always love a good revenge western...i do! ;)

but... i am surprised that rod was the first to mention the glaring similarities to the crow. i just couldn't get past it. sorry. :(

that's not to say that your writing wasn't done well. it was. i like your style, and the flashbacks, and the description of the action. the added touch of the outlaws butchering his daughter was a deviation from the crow (though she was pregnant i believe).

i realize that you may not have been aware of the crow's storyline (not everyone is)... so please don't think i am judging you too harshly for this. i just wanted you to know that, for me, it was so similar that i couldn't help but be distracted by it.

other than that issue (that only people familiar to the crow will even have), i felt your writing was well done and your visual descriptions very effective. i could picture everything clearly.

nice job! :)

seansshack

03-30-2009, 11:40 PM

Cheers.

Very hard these days not to be compared. Even when not intended.

Too many movies + story lines out there.

jamiejay

03-31-2009, 07:28 AM

very true ;)

leepback

04-03-2009, 10:27 PM

I'd always heard about the famous "movie that goes in reverse"

Those Memento fans out there should have a look at this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJyelcnINH0&feature=channel)

WARNING: It's hilarious but is only suitable viewing for non-homophobic adults with a sense of humour.
(have a look at their short called "blowj*b girl" but were getting way off topic now)

Cheers.

Very hard these days not to be compared. Even when not intended.

Too many movies + story lines out there.

You might be interested in a thread (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=23008) I placed on HV20.com regarding originality. Have a look as I think you might see where I was coming from.

Thought you had a good writing style and I liked the imagery of the glasses lined up waiting and the bar scene, but wasn't totally won over with the story.

And a tiny thing that bugged me......when he goes home and sees the dead body of his wife you write...."Overcome by the terror of what meets him inside."

I would have preffered "Overcome by the horror that meets him inside."

Good luck with the voting.