5D II - Auto ISO

[egproductions]

So after what felt like nine months, I got my new baby.

Love the quality, love the low noise in the higher ISOs (beats my rebel xt by about 2 stops of light), love the DOF in video, etc.

I was expecting the manual control limitations in video mode but I do have to say, the thing I am the most dissapointed about is the Auto ISO feature in still mode.

Apparently, you cannot have auto ISO enabled while having aperture and shutter speed locked down. I called canon support and sure enough there is no solution. Basically the best option for Auto ISO is using AV mode which sets the shutter speed to around 40th-50th on a 50mm lens and then adjusts the ISO speed.

The reason Canon decided to do this is not beyond me but has really made me loose a lot of respect for them. Much like the lack of control in video mode, It's as if they went out of their way to disable auto ISO in manual mode.

[Andrew Brinkhaus]

Why on earth would you want to use auto ISO in the first place? Especially if your shooting manual...

[DivotDan]

I love auto ISO on the nikons when shooting A,S, or P. I never use it in manual. It actually bothers me that I have to turn it off when I switch to manual. I think that should happen automaticlly.

[egproductions]

Auto ISO is the best feature for not having to work with settings and being able to concentrate on taking good photographs.

With auto ISO you can set you aperture and shutter speed to the sweet spot of your lens and the ISO will adjust to the lowest it can handle. You can still do exposure compensation and over expose your shot by .5-1 stop and bring it back later for even less noise.

Andrew, you are thinking like a videographer where anything automatic is going to ruin your footage. I used to think like you and always wanted my camera on manual but honestly, as long as there is no more than 1 exposure variable that is automatic then you have full control of your camera and there is no need for manual shooting.

I also used to feel that I would prefer the widest aperture and slowest shutter speed acceptable so that my ISO can be as clean as possible. More and more I realize that noise/grain is not bad at all and I would prefer that my shot is sharp than clean.

[herminiocordido]

Auto ISO is the best feature for not having to work with settings and being able to concentrate on taking good photographs.

With auto ISO you can set you aperture and shutter speed to the sweet spot of your lens and the ISO will adjust to the lowest it can handle. You can still do exposure compensation and over expose your shot by .5-1 stop and bring it back later for even less noise.

Andrew, you are thinking like a videographer where anything automatic is going to ruin your footage. I used to think like you and always wanted my camera on manual but honestly, as long as there is no more than 1 exposure variable that is automatic then you have full control of your camera and there is no need for manual shooting.

I also used to feel that I would prefer the widest aperture and slowest shutter speed acceptable so that my ISO can be as clean as possible. More and more I realize that noise/grain is not bad at all and I would prefer that my shot is sharp than clean.

Man i know that everybody has an opinion and people can think differently and stuff...
But you are wrong.

iso 100 will be different than iso 200 (maybe not for your eye because you are an amateur) but when the image quality is a determining factor, the lowest iso is always recommended.

Why should someone say "the noise is not bad at all" instead of "the absolutely best possible"?

For sure there are moments you need to get the shot fast and if you don't think you are able to get the manual settings ready that fast you can rely on "whatever" your technique is to get the shot, but i have been training my eye to guess exposure settings and that is the way to go in order to get the best image quality possible.

I prefer my shot sharp *and* clean.

Cheers

[egproductions]

The question isn't whether you prefer your photos sharp and clean, the question is which would you prefer to see in your shot, a clean one or a sharp well taken one?.... because most of the time, you can't have the best of both worlds. That's the point of Auto ISO you can have the cleanest shot possible without sacrificing the actual aesthetic of your shot. If you prefer, consistently shoot RAW at 100 ISO and overexpose by .5-1 stop. You can set your camera to AV or TV and have the cleanest blurry pictures we ever did see.

"maybe not for your eye because you are an amateur"

What's your deal, are you trying to ruffle my feathers? why is a comment like this even necessary? You don't know me.

Just by the fact that you would prefer a clean image and are willing to sacrifice sharpness shows me you are in fact the amateur. Professionals realize that technical perfection is nice when available but the bottom line is that content is 100x more important than technical quality. In that regard, a sharp well focused picture is going to be much more important than making sure its clean.

"but when the image quality is a determining factor, the lowest iso is always recommended."

I agree, when image quality is a determining factor shoot at the lowest ISO, however, when was the last time image quality was a determining factor. Some of us actually take photos while some of us sit at home worrying about which settings are the best. That being said, at times a grainy image is a nice aesthetic depending on what types of photographs you shoot. For example, do you want to see documentary photography with disgustingly clean images or does a higher ISO makes sens for a more "real look".

As I said in my last post. Stop thinking like a videographer. In video auto anything is a bad idea and grain can be very distracting. In still photgraphy, these "rules" don't apply.

Usually when I get argumentative comments on my posts its not because someone disagrees with me, it's due to the fact that I offended a fanboy or someone who thinks by defending the company they spent a lot of money with, is going to protect their investment. Personally, all my equipment is Canon because that's the route I took but I don't look down at Nikon shooters (listening DivotDan? :)). To me both companies are great with (and I know you will like this one) the cleanest sensors on the market and best options for glass. Just for the record you are a fanboy don't fight it...

[herminiocordido]

Sorry man, i didn't want to offend you.
The difference is that amateurs "take" pictures and professionals "Create" images.
Is like painting when you actually get to that point (not saying that i am quite there yet, but striving for it)

The fact is that the more you can control of your image, the better. (if you are "painting")

I recomend you to find a pro photographer that you admire and ask him.

I agree that the grain looks nice and it is an integral part of some images, but why in the world should i let my camera decide when is that time?

I also shoot some times at high iso, because of the look or because the light is dim, or fast action at sunset or whatever, but i always choose when.

Go manual, learn your stuff

Cheers

[William_Robinette]

Wow, some pretentious comments flying in this thread.

I too enjoy the auto ISO on my Nikon when out shooting generally. If I was doing a controlled "shoot" of course manual has it's rightful place, but if I'm out with friends shooting or just doing a walk around and taking pictures on a trip then auto ISO is where I'm at.

No need to question anyone's professionalism here guys. People create art in all sorts of different ways. Who says you are the one to decide if they are doing it "right" or not?

[herminiocordido]

Wow, some pretentious comments flying in this thread.

I too enjoy the auto ISO on my Nikon when out shooting generally. If I was doing a controlled "shoot" of course manual has it's rightful place, but if I'm out with friends shooting or just doing a walk around and taking pictures on a trip then auto ISO is where I'm at.

No need to question anyone's professionalism here guys. People create art in all sorts of different ways. Who says you are the one to decide if they are doing it "right" or not?


Professionalism is to be paid for what you do, so yes you are right, there is no point questioning professionalism, also art is subjective as you are saying, so there is no right or wrong...

But the better photographer will use manual settings whenever the conditions allow them to, and the more you practice, the more *right* conditions you will find.

[DivotDan]

But the better photographer will use manual settings whenever the conditions allow them to

I'm tired of hearing this statement. There are plenty of pro's, by your definition ($$$), that still let the camera do the work for them. Long and short is that before digital and all the auto setting cameras, pro or otherwise used to bracket the hell out of their shoots. They would take a whole roll of one setup just bracketing exposure and moving lights slightly to make sure that just ONE of the shots was right. So being a "Pro" or "Better Photographer" has nothing to do with how you got the image......just that you had the eye, knowledge, and luck to get it.

And I also agree that the tone of this thread is very quickly heading in the wrong direction. We should all :beer: and makeup real fast before this turns too ugly.

[alwayslearning]

To me both companies are great with (and I know you will like this one) the cleanest sensors on the market ...

I don't know about Canon, but Nikon sensors are made by Sony. Some are the same as the sensor in the Sony camera's and some, I believe, are engineered (spec'd) by Nikon with Sony just being the manufacturer. That's why at least Nikon, has such "clean" sensors. :)

(Hey, I have to say this ... I'm the only alpha camera guy on here as, I think, Starmapper is the only Oly guy on here. :)

Larry

[egproductions]

oh, I had such a big post written and my page timed out. probably better this way.

I don't mind keeping it civil and I'm done arguing this point.

[herminiocordido]

I'm tired of hearing this statement. There are plenty of pro's, by your definition ($$$), that still let the camera do the work for them. Long and short is that before digital and all the auto setting cameras, pro or otherwise used to bracket the hell out of their shoots. They would take a whole roll of one setup just bracketing exposure and moving lights slightly to make sure that just ONE of the shots was right. So being a "Pro" or "Better Photographer" has nothing to do with how you got the image......just that you had the eye, knowledge, and luck to get it.

And I also agree that the tone of this thread is very quickly heading in the wrong direction. We should all :beer: and makeup real fast before this turns too ugly.


Ok
All manual means control over all the variables.
While auto whatever means letting the camera decide for you.
I am sure that there are a lot of situations that auto ISO will allow you to get an image that otherwise you couldn't (fast set up, run and gun or whatever).
The thing is that the discussion "better" or "worse" is pointless here.
The fact is that the more control you have, the better (some times more control is letting the camera auto ISO so you have control of the instant you want to photograph). but the more you practice in full manual, better you get at controlling all the variables that influence your image.
For me is simple, sorry if i can't make myself clear.

[DivotDan]

I think I get your point. And I agree that over all it's important to know all the settings in your camera and which method or combination of them works best in each situation.

That said, I really like the way Auto ISO works on the Nikons. I'm glad I don't have to use it on a Canon, b/c their method of Auto ISO would drive me nuts.

[shucklak]

I have to say, I didn't even know such a feature existed. And now that I do know, I've never wanted to upgrade from my XT more than I do right now...

[DivotDan]

Yeah, I think Canon only does this on some cameras. Nikon however has the feature on all of its DSLRs.

[egproductions]

So, I realized a workaround to obtain true auto ISO on the 5D II.


Set your camera to manual or AV mode and set your desired aperture
Hold down the DOF preview button and slightly twist off lens. (If you do this in live view mode you will see the perfect amount to twist your lens because liveview will shut off when communication is lost)
Switch to TV mode and set your shutter speed
Now switch to auto ISO and you camera will be forced to only work with the ISO to achieve a middle exposure


This isn't the greatest solution since its not amazingly quick, but if you are in a situation where you don't have to contantly change the aperture then this is a decent workaround.

[Rick Meyer]

So, now that we are talking ISO, (and with the notion of keeping it civil :)) let me ask you (the masses) what is your workflow, say, taking outside daytime shots with nothing but natural light?

I know this will vary based on what you are shooting at but I'm just curious how everyone else does it. Do you start in ISO 100 no matter what and work the shutter and aperture around that? Then creeping the ISO up a bit as the sun starts to go down...?

I mean, how often do you tinker with the ISO? Is it something you change when the situation calls for it (i.e sun going down) or do you willfully change it to alter the settings on your shutter speed/aperature to perhaps go for a sweet spot in your lens?

Broad and general question I know but I find it interesting to read about others' workflow...

[Matt Grunau]

Wow, some pretentious comments flying in



The new so often do that, as if there is something to prove, someone to impress, or some small nugget of technique or theory which escaped us all until their "fortuitous" arrival. Then all of us ignorant unwashed sheep can bathe in the glory and be enlightened.

:huh:

Fortuneatly, they never last long with that attitude.




A good photo is a good photo. Putting down so many absurd "you have to. . . " for something so much left to interpretation is patently absurd.

"Professionals" get paid to take pictures, amatures don't. Not anything about creating this, snapping that, capturing the wtfever or elsewise. Not to mention the reality that is unless you are in a very controlled setting, you have to grab what you can get the best you can for the best quality.



Jesus. Some people.

[egproductions]

Rick, If I don't have auto ISO then I tend to set my shutter speed to 1.5x the focal length that am shooting with (on a cropped sensor.) So if I am on a 50mm lens I shoot at 1/80th if I am on a full frame camera, I shoot at 1/50th. If I am on the 5D II however, I shoot at 1/80th because 21MP is a lot to resolve and I can actually see some motion blur at 1/50th even though its full frame.

After I get my minimum shutter speed I close my aperture a few stops so that I can use my lens at its sharpest.

Finally I set my ISO. If I need to capture fast action or I need really shallow or deep DOF then I change accordingly.

With Auto ISO I would be able to skip the last step of my workflow and let my camera set the ISO for me.

[Rick Meyer]

Interesting.

Its interesting to see how the approach varies. I set my ISO at 100 then my aperture and go from there. But, I am definitely not afraid to use any auto settings. In fact, I will sometimes use the FULL AUTO feature just to get a general idea of what the camera is thinking...then I will change accordingly for DOF etc.

One thing I need a better handle on is finding the sweet spot for each lens I own. I know that each lens has it's own "sweet spot". I need to get better acclimated as to what those settings are.

[egproductions]

to find the "sweet spot" of my lenses I like to do a horizontal blind test. Take a few shots on AV mode of regular horizontal blinds. start from your lowest aperture to your highest. for many lenses, you will notice that the wide open apertures will have some vignetting. Once the aperture is reached that no vigetting is present you will probably be around your sweet spot in terms of sharpness (for cropped sensors close the aperture 1 or two more times since you might not be seeing the vigetting) Your lens will probably have a range of a sweet spot also (i.e. f4-f11) start going past f13 on most lenses and you will loose some sharpness due to diffraction.

Of course you should also confirm the sharpness by actually looking at the photo on the computer without any sharpening applied (shoot in RAW not JPEG).