Canon 5d and RED ONE shot side by side

[DVXguy]

hey guys.. I just wrapped the new hoobastank music video for "so close, so far" with director frank borin. We shot both RED ONE as well as with the Canon 5d MII. They were literally shot side by side in the same setups.. Check out the photo below.. Stay tuned for the footage.

[William_Robinette]

I am assuming aesthetics were the only reason behind this? What frame rate where you shooting on the RED and and if it was 23.98 then how are you converting the Canon footy?

[SPZ]

Do post your impressions!

[infurno]

I see more and more people cutting RED and 5D2 video together and the results look great.

Tell us how the shoot went.

[DVXguy]

I wasn't the DP on the project.. That was Simon Thirlaway (Katy Perry, Maroon 5, Rob Thomas, Pink, etc.)..but I assume the lowest common denominator here is 29.97. At the end of the day that's what all this footage always gets to anyway..

Will definitely post when it's ready. The footage is being color corrected by one of the best colorist in L.A. on a da vinci. That I think makes all the difference in the world.

[infurno]

Were you operating the 5D2 camera or did you just happen to be on set?

If you were the operator what was the method you used to set exposure, and what did you do to keep a similar look on every take?

Did you make any effort to adjust the shutter?

[Joseph Stunzi]

I wasn't the DP on the project.. That was Simon Thirlaway (Katy Perry, Maroon 5, Rob Thomas, Pink, etc.)..but I assume the lowest common denominator here is 29.97. At the end of the day that's what all this footage always gets to anyway..

Will definitely post when it's ready. The footage is being color corrected by one of the best colorist in L.A. on a da vinci. That I think makes all the difference in the world.

I agree with you. Color correction makes a world of a difference. As does proper lighting! :D

[ChristianScott]

Iam also interested in the exposure question, also what lens did you have on the end of the canon =]

[DVXguy]

I'm the film commissioner for this project (in charge of hiring the production crew on behalf of the label).. However being the tech head I am, I'm knowledgeable about these cameras. Let me see if I could bring Simon or frank in on the conversation as they could answer most of these specific questions about the shoot.

For the exposure I know we had to move around the camera in different lights and then lock down the exposure when it got to the right spot. It's amazing that this is the case. How did the canon employees not flag this on day one.

[ChristianScott]

Why its fairly easy to set, Its still something that should of been addressed by now.

how did the canon fair up against the red, and what lens did you use on the shoot ?

Did you use the same lens on each camera for each shot ?

[tonykart125]

very interesting. I have also seen the coupling of these two guys a lot. I dont want to buy a slr strictly for production but it looks like it might happen. Lets get some pics side by side!

[cinebuddy]

So basically you have to use the same exposure lock trick on the HV/HF series of camcorders?

[StormFactory]

very interesting. I have also seen the coupling of these two guys a lot. I dont want to buy a slr strictly for production but it looks like it might happen. Lets get some pics side by side!
Where else have you seen these two together? Links?

[studio nine]

cool! We did the same thing..... here:
http://studionineblog.com/2009/02/20/wppi-desert-shoot-with-red-camera/

[dantewaters]

So basically you have to use the same exposure lock trick on the HV/HF series of camcorders?


There is an exposure lock trick on those cams, can you please share?

[Tracey Lee]

Wow, I am looking forward to seeing shots from this project. i have watched Frank Borin music videos a lot.

[Eric Papa]

I'm about to get a 5DMKIIn, I wouldn't be supprised if it looks better than the red 1. and thats a 70-200 2.8 L in the photo

[StormFactory]

I'm about to get a 5DMKIIn, I wouldn't be supprised if it looks better than the red 1. and thats a 70-200 2.8 L in the photoThat's a typo right?

[Eric Papa]

No I didn't typo, thats what I think. In fact, I just ordered my 5DMKIIn, along with my Zeiss 85mm 1.4 T* manual focus for EOS, (can't wait to use this one) to accompany my EOS L lenses...I'll be shooting a few music videos with this over march/april. Acquisition off of a 21 megapixel full-frame sensor...

[StormFactory]

So you are saying that some place in selling a camera that doesn't exist yet? Where did you find a Canon 5D Mark II N for sale?

What is new on the N model? How much is the camera?

[Emanuel]

StormFactory,

Eric Papa didn't take in consideration your typo mention in anything other than as a direct reference to his comparison with the RED ONE.

Yet about resolution and the 5D Mark II in movie mode, using every pixel on every third row, sampling only one out of 3 pixels (horizontal not vertical), the sensor resolution drops to 1/3rd. Being the actual 5D Mark II full resolution in movie mode (before downsizing to 1920x1080) 5.9MP instead.


I'm about to get a 5DMKIIn, I wouldn't be supprised if it looks better than the red 1. and thats a 70-200 2.8 L in the photoI wouldn't be suprised either, once there is more than resolution for a certain kind of balance comprehending different factors where a full frame 35mm sensor size will perform a relevant role, besides as it already happens with the RED ONE S35mm (smaller) sensor sized.

[Eric Papa]

Sorry didn't mean to add the 'n' on there, thats a older camera I have.

Emanuel,

I'm referring to "Looking Better" only. I'm well aware of the technical specs - but as you can appreciate, I don't base my opinions on tech specs. It depends who is using the camera as to what the results look like.

You mentioned downsampling from 21 megapixel like its a bad thing...

and its not just about the sensor either. Canon L lenses are the professionals choice in most all circumstances. And now, zeiss is bringing new lens(s) to the table too for the EOS - nice!

I have a fully loaded HVX with redrock here with great canon L lenses. Its real silly to me that theres this "huge gap" of plastic components between my photography lens and camera sensor. The 5D eliminates that, and thats what we really want, direct lens mounting.

My kodak V1073 shoots 720p video. (Bought this cam for $75 at a closing circuit city.) It samples the video from a 10 megapixel sensor and it is "more than sharp enough". The color is "so so" but detail is very high for a tiny pocket camera.

I was an early adopter of the HV20 HDV cam almost 2 years ago. When I told people we were shooting a project with 2 HVX cameras and 1 HV20 they thought it was a bad idea. Turns out, when the project was burned to Blu-ray, you could clearly see the HV20 out performed the HVX in terms of resolution, low light, and even the color was great too after CC!

My point is that technology is maxxing out with this high res digital video. At this point, most issues have been addressed, and the newer product is usually better. By the time i get a new red camera, my pen or watch will likely shoot 2K video

[Tracey Lee]

DVXguy,

Whose decision was it to also film the music video with a 5D MarkII? Frank does some great music videos so I think it says a lot for the Mark II if you guys are wanting to try it out for this.

[Emanuel]

Sorry didn't mean to add the 'n' on there, thats a older camera I have.

Emanuel,

I'm referring to "Looking Better" only. I'm well aware of the technical specs - but as you can appreciate, I don't base my opinions on tech specs. It depends who is using the camera as to what the results look like.

You mentioned downsampling from 21 megapixel like its a bad thing...

and its not just about the sensor either. Canon L lenses are the professionals choice in most all circumstances. And now, zeiss is bringing new lens(s) to the table too for the EOS - nice!

I have a fully loaded HVX with redrock here with great canon L lenses. Its real silly to me that theres this "huge gap" of plastic components between my photography lens and camera sensor. The 5D eliminates that, and thats what we really want, direct lens mounting.

My kodak V1073 shoots 720p video. (Bought this cam for $75 at a closing circuit city.) It samples the video from a 10 megapixel sensor and it is "more than sharp enough". The color is "so so" but detail is very high for a tiny pocket camera.

I was an early adopter of the HV20 HDV cam almost 2 years ago. When I told people we were shooting a project with 2 HVX cameras and 1 HV20 they thought it was a bad idea. Turns out, when the project was burned to Blu-ray, you could clearly see the HV20 out performed the HVX in terms of resolution, low light, and even the color was great too after CC!

My point is that technology is maxxing out with this high res digital video. At this point, most issues have been addressed, and the newer product is usually better. By the time i get a new red camera, my pen or watch will likely shoot 2K videoSame general idea over here. I salute your open mind far away from a substantive geek side, that is, lack of any substantive reason for a healthy attitude towards the essence of the meaning of the word technology. :laugh: Rare over these or such boards. :thumbsup:

However, you've also mentioned something without a proper objectivity, neither technological well-thought which needs your care. :-) You can't deny the crucial contribution of simple things, or not so much, such as processing power (read, hardware), maths (read, compression rates/schemes, REDCODE for instance) by software application or both efforts. The bitrate, for example, enters somewhere over the rainbow. And last but not least, physics. The case of the importance of a sensor size for achieving DOF or in terms of light sensitivity, another occurrence.

Apart this and 'cause of this, this camera is indeed a milestone, such as the RED ONE has been so far. Your pen or watch won't provide the same 2K, count on it. Your further $999 FF35mm camera or your L class lenses in the meantime with the technology already available nowadays for a fraction of the industry's standards? No doubt ;-)

[Emanuel]

I was an early adopter of the HV20 HDV cam almost 2 years ago. When I told people we were shooting a project with 2 HVX cameras and 1 HV20 they thought it was a bad idea. Turns out, when the project was burned to Blu-ray, you could clearly see the HV20 out performed the HVX in terms of resolution, low light, and even the color was great too after CC!
PS -- Same finding from day one.


HV20 is a way further than the HVX200. Perhaps 'cause of that, I'd rather buy the consumer :huh: capture device instead and anyways. Even for a 35mm blow-up exhibition if other choices I would not have. :)

[Eric Papa]

Yeah I definitely agree!

Also, a good friend of mine who works at CDW has the 5D Mark II for a good price (Seemed really good from what I've seen other companies charging!) incase anyone else is looking for a re-seller.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Yeah I definitely agree!

Also, a good friend of mine who works at CDW has the 5D Mark II for a good price (Seemed really good from what I've seen other companies charging!) incase anyone else is looking for a re-seller.


??????$$$$$$$???????

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Yeah I definitely agree!

Also, a good friend of mine who works at CDW has the 5D Mark II for a good price (Seemed really good from what I've seen other companies charging!) incase anyone else is looking for a re-seller.

How much is he selling them for???? :beer:

[Kholi]

I'm about to get a 5DMKIIn, I wouldn't be supprised if it looks better than the red 1. and thats a 70-200 2.8 L in the photo

better than a RED ONE?... Maybe as good if you're on the web.

1080P for 1080P even, I still don't think the 5D can touch the RED. Only gets worse as the resolution gets higher.

That said, 5D footage pretty much murders Sub RED acquisition. =T And that's sad.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

PS -- Same finding from day one.


HV20 is a way further than the HVX200. Perhaps 'cause of that, I'd rather buy the consumer :huh: capture device instead and anyways. Even for a 35mm blow-up exhibition if other choices I would not have. :)


??????????

What do you mean? :dankk2:

[Ian-T]

I think kholi meant sad in regards to the much much higher costing prosumer cams not even coming close to the superb quality of the Mark ll. ....It basically says that camera manufacturers need to step up.

Edit:.....Hey....what the heck happend to my quote?....Ok now I'm talking to myself.

[Emanuel]

It was not Kholi. That quote is mine (but Kholi is not far away :laugh:).


??????????

What do you mean? :dankk2:I mean, I was an enthusiastic HVX fan since the 1st hour but only before its release. I became a HV20 admirer from day one and after its release. ;-) And if I wouldn't have other choices, I would go between a XH-A1 and a HV40 (HF S100/10? Maybe yes, maybe not*). Or even with the Silicon Imaging/Cineform route. That is, there are the 5D Mark II and RED ONE. Scarlet (2/3" and especially the FF35) on the way. :-)

* http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1570038#post1570038

(see picture and link on the bottom of the post)

[DVXguy]

DVXguy,

Whose decision was it to also film the music video with a 5D MarkII? Frank does some great music videos so I think it says a lot for the Mark II if you guys are wanting to try it out for this.


Frank actually directed 2nd unit in africa on 24 redemption. He said they used the camera out there with rails and a follow focus. He liked the quick setup and workflow. A friend of his had this camera and a ton of lenses, so he shipped it down to set. We just locked final edit so we'll have a link the moment the video premieres.

[DVXguy]

there's one thing I have just come across and feel I should mention. as a person who is involved with about 100 music videos a year for the last 10 years I definitely see red taking over. However it should be noted that out of 10 people who use red maybe 2 or 3 do the post correctly to get the full benefits of the camera. people who dont fully understand this and try and shoot RED because they can rent the camera for really cheap, should probably shoot the canon 5d instead. I'm doing a music video next week and it's a small budget.. I'm going to rent a canon 5d, put it on rails with a follow focus.

[Tracey Lee]

Frank actually directed 2nd unit in africa on 24 redemption. He said they used the camera out there with rails and a follow focus. He liked the quick setup and workflow. A friend of his had this camera and a ton of lenses, so he shipped it down to set. We just locked final edit so we'll have a link the moment the video premieres.

Whoa hold on now...who took it and how did they use the 5D on the set of 24 Redemption?

[Kholi]

there's one thing I have just come across and feel I should mention. as a person who is involved with about 100 music videos a year for the last 10 years I definitely see red taking over. However it should be noted that out of 10 people who use red maybe 2 or 3 do the post correctly to get the full benefits of the camera. people who dont fully understand this and try and shoot RED because they can rent the camera for really cheap, should probably shoot the canon 5d instead. I'm doing a music video next week and it's a small budget.. I'm going to rent a canon 5d, put it on rails with a follow focus.

These same people should still be shooting with an HVX200. I'm inclined to think even a 5D MKii is still to advanced a tool for 'em. Way too many people shooting RED (me included, honestly) that don't need to be or haven't the production qualities to match.

I know the camera pretty well, know how to get the most out of it in production and now in post... but I still am not at the skill level where I really should be using it. It's been an honor and I try not to take it for granted.

[cinebuddy]

These same people should still be shooting with an HVX200. I'm inclined to think even a 5D MKii is still to advanced a tool for 'em. Way too many people shooting RED (me included, honestly) that don't need to be or haven't the production qualities to match.

I know the camera pretty well, know how to get the most out of it in production and now in post... but I still am not at the skill level where I really should be using it. It's been an honor and I try not to take it for granted.
Too damn modest.

[StormFactory]

Frank actually directed 2nd unit in africa on 24 redemption. He said they used the camera out there with rails and a follow focus. He liked the quick setup and workflow. A friend of his had this camera and a ton of lenses, so he shipped it down to set. We just locked final edit so we'll have a link the moment the video premieres.
Hi Roy -

Are you saying that they shot some of "24: Redemption" using the 5D Mark II?

From what I understand, "24: Redemption" would have been a full season of 24 had it not been for the writer's strike. So that means they shot it well before the pre-production model was in Vincent Laforet's hands.

Can you confirm?

[Tracey Lee]

Hmmm...good point. 24 Redemption had to be filmed before the MarkII release or even before pre-production MarkIIs.

[TimeKoder13]

However it should be noted that out of 10 people who use red maybe 2 or 3 do the post correctly to get the full benefits of the camera. people who dont fully understand this and try and shoot RED because they can rent the camera for really cheap,

Here, here, I don't understand why this is. My boy directed some stuff for Amalgam Digital and they rented the Red and after seeing the finished product, other than the greenscreen work, I didn't see anything so amazing that they couldn't have just used a hvx or hv20 with a mini 35 setup on. I had the raw (not Cam RAW/red raw) quicktimes and the shots were dull. Maybe it was the smoke machine or club interiors they used, but we just shot similar setups for WuTang at a club with the hvx and everything was so much more lively and vibrant. Aren't the correct techniques for using Red posted all over the web by now, if not on red.com? How r so many people still lost? I love the Red but would never play myself by not completely trying to freak it to tha max in an edit.
Currently in this thread because the former dj for Boogie Down Productions, D-Nice, has turned himself into an amazing photographer over the last 10 years and he uses the Sony A90 (I think), the Nikon D90 and the Canon 5D MK II...plus HV30 to film his web series True Hip Hop Stories and soon as I discovered it last month I was like "What is he shooting with???" The stuff is amazing... here http://blog.d-nice.com/ or here http://www.dnicegallery.com/
Thanx for the insight, I've been away for a few years, had heard dribbling murmurs over the last few months about dslr video cams, and one day just decided to google it to see if it was even possible while in the midst of looking at more diy 35mms. Of course like everyone else I said screw the mini35 if I can buy a cam for under 3k with a 35mm lense and a res higher than Red. Other than heat on the sensor (and I may buy two of these to allow cooling time) I don't see a drawback as I'm simply doing music videos and would love the fact that these cams would make me shoot like I was shooting film cams. I think everyone shoots way too much for 4 minute videos. If I had to pretend that I was changing out reels due to the heat issue, it would force discipline in my productions. Oh well, peace to all...

[Rakesh Jacob]

Thanx for the heads up on the D-Nice thing. Some real nice stuff in there!!!!

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Thanx for the heads up on the D-Nice thing. Some real nice stuff in there!!!!


He also post here on the board from time to time.


He's very talented. :beer:

[raelic]

hey guys.. I just wrapped the new hoobastank music video for "so close, so far" with director frank borin. We shot both RED ONE as well as with the Canon 5d MII. They were literally shot side by side in the same setups.. Check out the photo below.. Stay tuned for the footage.


70-200mm IS USM L 2.8 I am guessing from the look of the lens?

[cheezweezl]

He also post here on the board from time to time.


He's very talented. :beer:

is all that stuff hv30??? i gotta get me one of those...

which adapter does he use with it?

[ESTEBEVERDE]

is all that stuff hv30??? i gotta get me one of those...

which adapter does he use with it?

No

check each video

[DVXguy]

btw. this video was released.. it was shot on RED, canon 5d MII, and HVX 200.. can you tell what is what? this is crappy youtube quality but I'm sure a higher quality version is uploaded somewhere..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ2eNshrliY

[ChristianScott]

Heres another link if the utube one didnt work for anyone like me =] http://www.contactmusic.com/videos.nsf/stream/hoobastank-so-close-so-far

[Adam J McKay]

mixes quite well. If I had to guess id say the live Footage was an hvx??

[DVXguy]

mixes quite well. If I had to guess id say the live Footage was an hvx??

close.. slow motion was hvx.. that was me shooting from the pit.. the other live footage is a mix of canon and red.. them kissing is canon.. most of it is red..

[petemack]

We put so much importance on cameras, technology and achieving the cleanest image and then the label goes and posts that crappy compression to YouTube which might as well have been shot with a flip and is probably where the majority of fans will see it.

[Lee_B]

We put so much importance on cameras, technology and achieving the cleanest image and then the label goes and posts that crappy compression to YouTube which might as well have been shot with a flip and is probably where the majority of fans will see it.

Haha, so true sadly.

[Ian-T]

"What is he shooting with???" The stuff is amazing... here http://blog.d-nice.com/ or here http://www.dnicegallery.com/
...I think he mentioned the HMC170.

[puredrifting]

Ian,

do you mean the HMC150 or the HPX170?

Dan