View Full Version : 3D models needed: european ships from 1855
Hi,
I am working on a low budget historical documentary. I am looking to recreate a battle of the Crimean War which happened in North Europe in 1855. I will need 3D models of british ships as the "HMS Duke of Wellington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Duke_of_Wellington)" or other ships of the line. I will also need a few models from the same period of other heavy weaponas as mortars, cannons, guns etc. We will be using Blender mostly.
Do you have any idea where I can find them without spending a fortune ?
I've found this one (here (http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/213015)) but it is from the wrong period.
thx in advance for the help.
CIPO
HI
no one can help with this ? Even suggesting something on how to be able to find or buy those models ?
Thank you for all the help you can provide :)
Michael T
02-19-2009, 02:49 AM
go to the vue model library and do a search on google for 3d models of ships.
good luck
HI Michael ...thanks for the tip. What is it "vue" ?
I already went thorugh Google but without big luck. I am also trying to find some place where users would be able to create such models.
I thought I would find some 3D modeler here too :)
Can you advice and good site where to find talented modeler ?
THX
Capt Quirk
02-19-2009, 03:56 AM
I could likely do it, but my 3d program is so far behind the times, I doubt it could work with anything you might use. I have seen a lot of good stuff from turbosquid.com, and you might be able to find someone there.
I could likely do it, but my 3d program is so far behind the times, I doubt it could work with anything you might use. I have seen a lot of good stuff from turbosquid.com, and you might be able to find someone there.
HI, the best ship I saw there is from the 18th century (http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/213015). Nice but too "old" for my purpose :) But i could ask in that forum too ;)
We are planning to use blender. Thx for answering.
Capt Quirk
02-19-2009, 06:28 AM
I could export an .obj, but I don't know if the textures would move with it properly. Does Blender import .obj files?
HI
I am not too familiar with it cos I have an other person dealing with it. But judging from a quick search (see here (http://www.blender.org/download/python-scripts/import-export/)) there are ways to import .obj in it.
It says:
Wavefront OBJ Importer/Exporter (http://jmsoler.free.fr/util/blenderfile/py/obj_io_modif232b.py)
(http://jmsoler.free.fr/util/blenderfile/py/obj_io_modif232b.py) This script allows for full importing and exporting of .obj files. uv texture coordinates and normals can be exported and imported. .obj groups and materials can also be converted to and from material indexes in Blender."
Capt Quirk
02-19-2009, 08:00 AM
My mistake, I can't export .obj, but the good news is, I can export .dxf, and Blender is supposed to be able to import them. If you like, I could send you a test file, see how it works?
we could tried ... i am not so worried about those formats, we can always find a way to convert :) But would you be able to make such ship replica as the HSM Duke of Wellington (here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Duke_of_Wellington)) ?
Capt Quirk
02-19-2009, 10:33 AM
How close up would you need, and what kind of blue prints can you get me?
Anhar Miah
02-19-2009, 03:44 PM
Try:
Turbo Squid
and for paid modelers:
CGtalk
(see employment section)
Anhar
Try:
Turbo Squid
and for paid modelers:
CGtalk
(see employment section)
Anhar
Thx Anhar,
i already tried TS and there is no model for the age i am looking for. I also posted there for a non paid job already. Hoping to get some help.
I used to be good with 3D Studio back in the '90s and therefore I have some idea on how these SW works but havent been playing anymore myself. Knowing what it can be done, I am now working on a video documentary and trying to increase its production value adding some smart CG in there.
I got some guy who can help me with the animation in blender but I need to find him the right models to use.
I might be able to get some financing if I will show some good teaser but at the moment I can't offer much .....
I also want to reproduce a realistic battles and I will need the cannons on board of those ships being able to fire :) Do you think that some particle system might be enough to reproduce a realistic detonation with fire and thick smoke ?
I will probably try to reproduce 3-4 different types of ships and then duplicate them to populate the sea. I will try to attach a picture of a very draft scene.
thx for the help
How close up would you need, and what kind of blue prints can you get me?
Ideally, I would like to get very close and maybe even "on board". Look this (http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/213015)model ... maybe we could use that for close up and "On board" panning while we could have a simpler model for the sea POV. WHat do you think ?
I am trying to get some blue prints (if by that you mean the detailed construction plans).
thx
Simple draft of a sea POV .... this could be the level of details needed for some far shots. I will try to have more complex anymation with the cam moving all over the places.
There will be many more boats, 3-4 more different types (smaller). I will also have some land and a few isnalds to reproduce.
Capt Quirk
02-20-2009, 05:26 AM
I can only create the details I see, unless you want me to make them up as I go. It depends on how accurate you want.
HI C.Q.
all I got so far are these pics: here (http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/prints/browseHeadings.cfm?filter=vessels&node=1721)
Am Trying to find some plans/blue print.
BTW: what could be the easier SW to create some models and especially to create some realistic 3d landscapes (from existing maps) ? C4D would be ok ?
cheers
Capt Quirk
02-20-2009, 09:29 AM
I couldn't tell you what to use for landscapes... or much else for that matter. I'm stuck with a program from the last decade. Maya was supposed to do good scenery though, or maybe Lightwave.
Just to make sure I did express myself correctly. What I need is to recreate in 3D existing land starting from maps and plan. I don't need to generate random landscape :)
I need to reproduce a few islands which are part of my navy battle :)
thx
Capt Quirk
02-20-2009, 01:05 PM
Start with Google Earth maybe?
yeah, I saw it already but I will need models to be used in a computer animations :) Of course I could use some of those maps to build the models :)
Anhar Miah
02-20-2009, 08:03 PM
Another option (as done in Hollywood) would be to get hold of real life model of the ship in question and then hire a 3d hand scanner,
by far this will be the most accurate model, some of the newer scanners also can capture textures (non laser based).
Anhar
HI Anhar,
yeah thank you. But there is no budget for such approach :)
I guess I can start with a 2D planimetry from some old maps and hen try to get the elevation marks/levels from G-maps. I will also need to adjust them manually cos the islands have been modified during the big wars (e.g. with some sand bunks).
Is C4D usueful for this ?
Anhar Miah
02-21-2009, 06:52 AM
try terragen, I think it may support GIS data, in which case it would be the prefered way to generate vast and accurate landscape in 3D (why re-invent the wheel?)
Anhar
Michael T
02-21-2009, 07:21 AM
CiPO I just saw that your still looking so maybe this well help.
e-on software and
Cornucopia3D
This is some of the models being used, I hope it helps
good luck
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10537/1235225085.jpg http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10537/1235225207.jpg http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10537/1235225262.jpg http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10537/1235225315.jpghttp://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10537/1235225372.jpg http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10537/1235225472.jpg
Capt Quirk
02-21-2009, 07:52 AM
That's better than what I could do for you.
Michael: thank you. You have those models or where those pics come from ? The issue is that I want to use period models which have been used in August 1855. Do you have the names of those ships (I still can't recognize all of them by a pic only :) ). Of course if this will be too hard then I will be forced to use other "similar" models but the reconstruction will not be so precise.
I got lots of material about the attack plan, with details about posiions and routes of many ship for those 48hours event.
C.Quirk: still looking for ship plans. Got soemthing but not yet what we need. The UK museum still hasn't answered :(
Thx all for the help. Today afternoon I am meeting an expert here in Helsinki :)
try terragen, I think it may support GIS data, in which case it would be the prefered way to generate vast and accurate landscape in 3D (why re-invent the wheel?)
Anhar
HI Anhar,
thank you. Will look into it. It is also a money issue, I am not a hollywood production :) Need to find the best economical way to get the maximum realism :)
But will look for some GIS data :)
thx 4 help
Anhar Miah
02-25-2009, 05:10 PM
I knew it might be possible and I was right! Vue can import GIS data (or has some method to do it)!
quick google of "Vue + GIS" reveals:
http://lal.cas.psu.edu/Research/visualiz/index.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvVOWI88ztg
HI Anhar,
actually I am not sure where wer are heading with this but .... you can clearly use GIS data inside your 3d program. GIS are basically a collection of coordinates with altitude values. So that you can reference a geographical area and then being able to "rebuild" it virtually inside your 3d application. You can simply start with a grid and then give values to each point representing its altitudes, after some iteration you get a nice 3D model if your area.
I want to use C4D to rebuild a few islands and rock off Helsinki. The poblem is to find GIS data without paying a fortune .... I am looking into it :)
thx 4 help
Anhar Miah
02-26-2009, 04:17 PM
Yes most 3d applications can import GIS data (may require some conversations), what I was alluding was the fact that Vue is the defacto (almost) for terrains and vast outdoor scences (pirates of the caribbean is one such example of the use of Vue).
Anyhoo, you would need DEM (Digital Elevation Model) layer in particular for what you want:
try starting you search from here:
http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/gis/manual/dem/index.htm
Anhar
HI Anhar,
I managed to find some DEM data of the area I need. Unfortunately the resolution of the data available on the net is 3 arc second (approx. 90m resolution). Anyway I downloaded the data and elaborated this 3D view which gives an idea of the area I am working with. maybe I could simply import such data in C4D and then try to play with some nurb mesh to manually refine it. After all it might be enough for my scopes :)
Capt Quirk
02-27-2009, 08:19 AM
Ewww... that reminds me of the time my boy decided he really didn't want the oatmeal he just ate :zombie_smiley:
ehm .... sorry but I don't get that joke :)
Anhar Miah
02-27-2009, 04:42 PM
you need to implement a LOD camera dependent technique.
Anhar
Why do I need to implement it ? The above picture it is just a quick representation of my data. It shows that the level of details from the DEM data is not that great but probably it is all you can get (due to possibily military limitation in providing more detailed data). I can import those data in some 3D SW and use its LOD stuff, I believe that should be available on many SW. I don't want to make my own rendering algorithm.
I just need raw data (DEM) to create a 3D mesh to be able to reproduce the islands and more improtant keep the real distances.
Between those islands I will need to place various RN ships which will be shooting at Sveaborg.
The DEM data gives a max resolution of 16m in hight. That means that every rock between 1-16m in height will have the same color and so on. But I could possibly pull some node manually and model the 3D mesh to make it look more realistic :)
thx
THX
CIPO
I got some 2D plan and I am working on it. I got about 1 pixel=1 meter reolution which is very good. The altimetry is not so precise but I hope I can live with it.
Got also some ship plans which we can start using.
Now an interesting topic:
we have a small cannon model that we can use to replice the gun firing, we can use some black powder and video it. I was planning to have a green screen behind it so that I will be able to key out the smoke and fire. then I could composite on other cannons in the 3D models. What do you think ?
thx
Anhar Miah
03-05-2009, 04:35 PM
yes, should be fairly easy to use as 2d bill boards (for the smoke and fire) inside of the 3d world.
Or go to detonation films for lots and lots of stock footage (they have already done the hard work of filming it)
Anhar
THX Anhar,
but where is the satisfaction of DYI and learn from it ? :)
I was planning to video it from different angles (not always flat in front of it) and then be able to resize and use for various cannons. I was planning to cover also with green the lower part of the cannon or maybe it is not needed ?
thx
Anhar Miah
03-06-2009, 06:48 PM
I'm a big fan of DYI myself and totally agree with your sentiments, having done a lot of it myself, building everything from entire Information Retrieval systems to a complete Neural Network simulator etc,
DYI is good on the other hand, however the practicalities of day to day production always means :do if faster and do it cheaper, hence why build the wheel when one already exists! :D
I think its a balance of Is this project a personal one (i.e. good for DYI) or is this a commerical dimension (i.e. production, i.e. go the flow of production mentality)
Anhar
dory_breaux
03-10-2009, 03:29 PM
Check your email CiPO.