My take on 35mm Lens adaptors such as the Letus!

[jujufactory]

So I read and watched all the reviews on the Letus Extreme. Wow! I had to have one. But before spending the 2000-3000 Euros I decided to try the product for a day on my EX1.

I'm relieved I did because there are things they don't tell you on the web.

Here is what I think:

Backfocus, price, f-stops, front focus, adaptor rings.... we've heard all the issues. Their secondery issues. One problem dominates all the others. I'm surprised nobody mentioned it... it is a real problem: WEIGHT! The Letus adaptor alone weighs almost as much as the camera.

This thing weighs a ton. Once you put a Letus on your EX1, the rods and a lens on top you can forget hand held. You can, forget the cheap rigs. The Letus and its rods will turn your leighweight EX1 into a full weight motion picture camera and that to me is a major step back because now you have to either dispense with tracking shots or go back to rails. Things would be alright is the EX1 were a shoulder mount camera but it isn't. Even the heavy Sony 900 is easier to handle than this mutant rig. The EX1 is totally misdesigned for any heavy configuration. Unless you can put counterweights behind your back you will never be able handle a Letus rig for more than 4 minutes. Yesterday I did some tests using various rigs. Forget it. This morning I have back pain, neck pain, and you name it.

When you get a Letus Extreme you better think in terms of rails, dolly tracks and the works if you want tracking shots. Otherwise it's static on a tripod.

This leads me to the real follow up: Isn't the entire idea behind small cameras their portability and versatility? The Letus will turn a lightweight easy to handle camera into a Mitchell heavyweight. Start hiring grips because just transfering the rig from the tripod to some sort of shoulder mount will require an assistant.

This is definitely something worth thinking about. Plus, I'm not even sure the top handle on the EX1 is designed to bear the weight a full Letus Rig. I did it and now get a cringing sound of bent plastic when I pick up the camera. (And I only used the rig for a day).

I dare not imagine what this setup would weigh with an EX3 but it would definitely be unusuable hand held.

Given the price, given the weight... given all the extra rigs you'll have to get just to handle such a heavy camera, one can truly question the bottom line usefullness of a Letus. My feeling is that it undermines the very idea of a lightweight camera. Without a shoulder mount camera the Letus sticks out like an unwanted guest.

Does the picture look so much better? Well it looks different. Less saturation, more grain... less depth of field.... organic look? I suppose so if you like super 8 film... but in purely subjective. The original EX1 lens will still give you the best resolution, the strongest colors.... but of course you have that video perfect large depth of field look... so now a decision has to be made between driving a jeep or driving a tank. It depends on your war I guess but don't even think or using the Tank as you would a jeep. The Letus Rig belongs on a tripod.

[Richard J. Johnson]

The letus is easy hell to run hand held. Many of us do it all the time without shoulder mounts let alone counter weights.

Weight is simply a non issue for me as well as many others that is probably why it is not discussed too much.

Plus many of us researched the product before we bought it so we knew how much it weighed.

[jujufactory]

You do it all the time? Who are you? The incredible Hulk? How do you go about doing it?

[menchifus]

So what if you can't handhold it? I've been directing commercials for a couple of years now and I've only used handheld shots in one commercial. You'd have to decide how much of what you're shooting requires handheld.

By the way, do you have any idea what cameras documentary producers use? They use those big *ss Sony shoulder-mounted cameras. They're definitely much heavier than the Sony EX1-Letus combo. If you want a light handheld cam, just buy a Canon HV30 cuz the EX1 by itself is a monster to handhold.

[TheRealMe]

The worst thing for me was that the whole rig, even on rails and with counter weight, was too cumbersome. Because of the flip, the camera had to sit way too high on my shoulders to make it practical. I like the simple straight design of a non-flipped Brevis 35 or a Cinemek G35. Plus they are lighter...

[Richard J. Johnson]

You do it all the time? Who are you? The incredible Hulk? How do you go about doing it?
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/34487/1233004931.jpg
Yes. All the time. And I'm no Hulk But My camera weighs in at the gargantuan weight of 12 pounds. My 4 year daughter can carry 12 pounds. Not saying it aint cumbersome but it's not hard. AT ALL. But i am 6'6 250 and can bench 305. :Drogar-Evil(DBG):

[jujufactory]

You're a big guy. But I don't have time to bench press 350 pounds every day just to use my camera. It's also possible the HVX 200 is somewhat lighter than the EX1. One must remember that the EX1 is a half-inch camcorder, which means a half-inch lens, which in turn means more glass and more weight too. I can carry 6-7 kilos. But I can't aim a 6 or 7 kilo rig at an object for more than 2 minutes without trembling. If you add to that the need to adjust focus every so often and press the record button, you can bet this is anything but practical. Bottom line, the rig needs to go on a shoulder mounted camera which the EX1 is not. If I shoot without tripod I may not go through a day without breaking your back.

[vcfilms]

Hey Juju,

I currently use the EX1 and letus with shoulder mount setup. And I definitely agree it weighs a lot. It's also a bit hard to balance at times. However, with that being said it is still a usable method just have to work up those arm and shoulder muscles with use and obviously if you go handheld all the time an adapter may not be the best choice anyways, or maybe a brevis with no flip as mentioned may be the better lighter choice but then you'll still need to add the weight of a monitor or flip to have it right side up. Bottom line is, it's a trade off, great control over depth of field or ease of use handheld. Probably one day we'll have 4k res in a 3 lb camera and built in PL Mount, but not for a long time :)

[Jeff Anderson]

Juju, check out some of the more balanced rigs like what Zacuto offers. You can carry alot more than you think if its distributed right. I've also found that holding it more like a rifle as filthrich is doing above helps a bit. I'm not a big guy (5'6" 160lbs, I can bench the bar!) at all and I can handle a 12lb (if not alot more rig) if its balanced and the weight is on my shoulder and not on my hands. I've tried to shoot like it sounds like you are with the weight in your arms and I dont last long at all. Want to go forever with a rig (my shoulder gets tired after 30 minutes or so usually) - look at a steadicam flyer or similar rig. I can wear mine a few hours with no pain and 15lbs of camera. Sure I'm a little tired but if I'm working I dont really even notice it. During practice sessions and stuff I routinely do 30 minutes 5-6 times a day and never notice i'm in the rig. Almost feel naked without it on. Of course 35mm adapters on steadicams make for some interesting focusing issues...

Anyways its all about balance. Personally I like the extra weight of a 35mm adapter rig handheld (if its balanced!). Smooths things out and makes it nice and solid feeling. If you still want to trim the weight, perhaps a non flipped brevis is right for you.

[Richard J. Johnson]

[quote=jujufactory;1533656]You're a big guy. But I don't have time to bench press 350 pounds every day just to use my camera. [quote]

LOL. You sure don't.:beer:

[jujufactory]

I noticed the Letus will give you a lot of grain and lose a lot of colour saturation, sharpness and resolution.


With Letus:

http://www.b-mol.com/1.jpg



Without Letus:
http://www.b-mol.com/2.jpg


I don't know but my feeling is you lose a lot of quality for that smaller depth of field. Is it worth it?

[Sean Michael]

I bought a Letus Mini and paired it with an HV20 to sidestep the weight issue.

That said, I'm still not sold on 35mm adapters. I like the organic look, but the PITAF (Pain-in-the-Ass Factor) is high. Maybe I just need a better selection of fast lenses (I typically have used a 50mm f1.4 prime) but it has always seemed like a lot of effort for a modest payoff.

[jujufactory]

I wonder if there's any payoff at all once you take into account the resolution and saturation loss. The EX1 has such a beautifully sharp image with such great resolution you wonder whether putting it through the adaptor grinder is really an improvement.

[booth]

The EX1 is so sharp you can easily take the small hit on resolution. For me, anyone who isn't getting good images with the EX1 & Letus, just does not know how to use it or one of the components is broken.

And while I'm on a roll, anyone who is getting imagery from the set up which is 'too video' also doesn't know how to use it correctly. Either that or they want it to look like video as an artistic choice.

Weight? You can run and gun with this far easier than you can with the HVX/M2 for example. Or even the HVX/Letus, because focusing with the EX1 is really easy. I actually find hand-held with the EX1/Letus easier than the EX1 on its own because the EX1's ergonomics are terrible. It balanced the camera out a bit more with rails, camera support etc.

In the right hands it can look great, and compared to other set ups, you don't need a ton of light.

Super 8? Not sure if you're looking at the same camera/lens adapter combo that I am :huh:

[jujufactory]

Hey the pictures above speak for themselves. The resolution and saturation loss is clearly visible. This was shot with a Letus Extreme and a 50 mm F1.4 canon lens.

[ponder8n]

Looks like the ground glass wasn't turned on.

[booth]

Hey the pictures above speak for themselves. The resolution and saturation loss is clearly visible. This was shot with a Letus Extreme and a 50 mm F1.4 canon lens.

Edit: As the above poster as written, the ground glass doesn't look to be switched on.

Also, this isn't a good example of what you can do with this set up.

My latest humble attempts are yielding pretty good results. Here's a heavily jpeg compressed screen grab...

http://www.pleasedsheep.com/images/PennineFilmFest09/240_0299_01.jpg

[Nektonic]

I like the look that 35mm adapters give, but I agree that they are overall not worth the pain-in-the-ass factor. Especially the added weight issue and the flip problem. I also am not a huge fan of too much super shallow depth of field, except on a shot here or there when it is necessary. That's just me though. No ill will towards anyone who uses adapters.

Although, if I end up switching to an HMC150 this year, then I would have the flip problem solved. And that is also part of why the flipped adapters like the Letus are heavier. So I think that if you can knock out those two factors, you will have an easier time with it.

[Steve Shovlar]

The main problem I found with the extreme, and the reason I got shot of it, was not the weight so much as the image completely ruined with mottled effect with anything above 4.5. This is caused by the vibrating glass. Spinning glass doesn't have this problem. I thought I was seeing things when I first noticed it but it ruins the image and causes mayhem. The Ultimate or the SG Blade both have spinning glass so don't have this particular problem.

[Kholi]

I'm a walking stick and I run n'gun RED ONE setups... an EX-1 + Letus Ultimate full grown rig is a cake walk... and trust me, I am NOT strong.

Weight really isn't an issue once you just get out and do it.

[MitchLewis]

Here's some samples. I got our EX3 and Letus Ultimate about 3 weeks ago:

http://www.ssscc.org/ftp/examples/culligan-01.jpg
http://www.ssscc.org/ftp/examples/culligan-02.jpg
http://www.ssscc.org/ftp/examples/tcl-01.jpg
http://www.ssscc.org/ftp/examples/tcl-02.jpg

[spectrumfilms]

I would say if you do not like the look, feel or the extra work involved in using the Letus Rig don't buy one. I think your points about it being too heavy and image loss are fairly weak, but if that is your opinion you are welcome to it. If the Letus is assembled and being used correctly, there is no way it adds that much grain to the picture. I have been using my my Elite with a Zacuto rig and Zeiss primes and getting stunning images on local, regional and even national commercials. My clients are requesting the unit and willing to pay extra on the rental. If you don't like it don't buy it. I love mine and am thrilled with the images I'm getting with it.

[jujufactory]

The Zacuto rig will set you back 3000 euros! If you add that to the 3000 Euros needed to get the Extreme with a bunch of lenses, you must consider spending 6000 Euros for the rig.

That's how you wind up with monsters like these:

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/6699/1215617841.jpg

[Sonny83]

I am also looking for a good rig/shoulder mount to improve handling with the EX1/Letus Extreme setup. Zacuto looks really good - except for the pricing.
Any other good solutions out there?

[Richard J. Johnson]

I am also looking for a good rig/shoulder mount to improve handling with the EX1/Letus Extreme setup. Zacuto looks really good - except for the pricing.
Any other good solutions out there?

Redrock micro has some good products.

http://www.redrockmicro.com/microShoulderMount/index.html

[vcfilms]

I have the Redrock shoulder mount and sony/letus setup and am looking for good ways in adding some weight to the back to balance the rig a little better. I know about the micropowerpod from Redrock but am hoping for a cheaper solution as I'm not really using anton bauer batteries. Anyone have an ideas/tips?

Thanks

[James Dierx]

Mitch L,

Do you have any pictures of your EX3 with the Letus set up? I really want to see what it looks like.. haven't found any pictures of it yet.

Thanks,

James.

[Sonny83]

Redrock micro has some good products.

http://www.redrockmicro.com/microShoulderMount/index.html


Thanks!!!
So it is worth the money?

I think I'm also going to order the zacuto foam case..hope the setup fits in there with the letus rails attached instead of the zacutos and the shouldermount

[MitchLewis]

Mitch L,

Do you have any pictures of your EX3 with the Letus set up? I really want to see what it looks like.. haven't found any pictures of it yet.

Thanks,

James.

I haven't taken any closeup photos of it yet. Only this one of my buddy shooting some test footage on the original test shoot for the camera. (I haven't used the matte box since)

[jujufactory]

What MattBox are you using and what Mattbox adaptor ring are you using with whatever lens you're using. Finally, why did you get that tripod instead of one with a ground triangle? I thought ground triangle tripods were more stable.

[MitchLewis]

I'm using the Red Rock matte box, mainly because of it's price and that it's a swing away design. But it's very large and heavy and I haven't figured out a way to get the camera rig properly balanced with it. It works fine with a small 50mm lens, but with the 17-35mm or 80-200mm the rig is too nose heavy. I use the foam adaptor rings that come with the Red Rock unit. I'd like to buy the Zacuto matte box ring instead, but I haven't gotten around to seeing if it will work or not.

I don't know what you mean by "ground triangle". The Sachtler I bought has a nice quick release plate that works very well (in my opinion). It's very easy to mount/dismount the rig to the tripod. I also purposely bought the Sachtler as it has a variable rate counter balance spring. This is especially nice when you're changing your rig. If it's setup with everything (matte box, long lens, etc..) it's very heavy so I can crank up the counter balance spring to compensate with the flick of a little knob. But then when I'm shooting without the matte box and only the 50mm lens, I can turn the counter balance spring down quite a bit so the tilt function is still very smooth.

Hope that makse sense.

[Bobonli]

What MattBox are you using and what Mattbox adaptor ring are you using with whatever lens you're using. Finally, why did you get that tripod instead of one with a ground triangle? I thought ground triangle tripods were more stable.

You're asking about the spreader, I presume, when you refer to the "ground triangle." Whether the spreader is placed in the middle (as it is here) or down on the ground is a matter of preference. Some say the floor-level ("ground") spreader is more stable but it is also less flexible: you are stuck with the legs in that position.

[MitchLewis]

I still like ground spreaders better than mid-level spreaders. But for some reason Sachtler charges A LOT more money for a ground spreader. Here's why personally I like a ground spreader better: (even though I'm not currently using one)

When you want to collapse the legs together, just lift the tripod, stick your foot under the center of the ground spreader, lift it up and the legs fall together. With a mid-level spreader you have to reach down with a free hand, which means one less hand on your rig, and pull up on the spreader to collapse the legs together. Ground level spreaders seem to make setup/teardown faster/easier.

When you're adjusting the size of the ground spreader you can visually see how far your legs are going to be spread apart with whatever adjustment you make to the spreader. Then once you make that adjustment, you're legs always stay the same distance apart no matter how high you raise and lower the legs. With a mid-level spreader you're always guessing at how far to spread it out, because the distance your legs are apart changes when you raise/lower them.

I've never had problems using a ground spreader on an uneven surface. You just loosen the knob and adjust the speader accordingly. I've shot on stairs, uneven ground, etc... I can't remember ever having a problem with the ground spreader getting in the way of a shot.

It's not a big deal, I'm learning to deal with a mid-level spreader again.

[Postmaster]

Here ya go.

The Zeiss Lens I use here is about the same wight and size as the LEX.
The whole rig, as you see it is about 20 pounds.
I can even fly that with a steadycam.

The last picture is done with the HVX200/LEX/Zeiss 50/2.8 medium format.

Not too shabby, I would say.

Frank

[Lor]

Redrock micro has some good products.

http://www.redrockmicro.com/microShoulderMount/index.html

The price certainly looks reasonable; however, I think it still need a lot of weight in the back to balance a EX1 + Letus Extreme + Nikon 80-200mm lens + matte box. I can see the weight is suddenly a problem. I can hardly hand held the EX1 more than an hour. The ergonomic of the EX1 hand grip is one of my biggest complaints.

[tonykart125]

Mitch the cam is looking fresh;)

[MitchLewis]

Thanks! (It's funny, sometimes I think clients are more impressed by how your camera rig looks, than the look of the finished video! hehehe)

[tonykart125]

ha hence the reason I bought an ex3. haha sad but kinda true. relay will make me happy with my choice though.

[MitchLewis]

Ditto. :)

[tonykart125]

mitch. shameless plug but check out my reel I just made a post on it. tell me what you think.

[MitchLewis]

Where? Link?

[MitchLewis]

Never mind. I found it. (see my comments on your thread)