What's your best PC method: DVCPRO 720Pn to Authoring DVD?

[Bowen]

I'd be real interested to know how others get their P2 HD assets to DVD (via PC) in full screen 16-9 format. I use the 170 to film 720Pn but don't have a Bluray burner yet. So after many intensive days of practical experiment with many codecs, and forum research for PC methods, I've come up with the best option I can find to author and burn a quality DVD. Maybe it's obvious but it's not great:

1. Import from P2 card to Premiere CS4.
2. After editing - Export to MPEG2.
3. Import to Encore CS4. (but not via Dynamic Link - it has a P2 glitch for 16-9.)
4. After authoring - Export to MPEG2 DVD quality. (Letting Encore do the VBR math).

This method (finally) has given me a full 16-9 wide-screen of bearable quality. (After up-res by the BD player.) I'm not happy with the two step MPEG compression though. So what about the Prospect HD software (or similar)? Is using its direct conversion to a Cineform AVI file different from Exporting an edited asset to an uncompressed AVI file? I've tried Exporting to uncompressed AVI and then to MPEG DVD but that gave too much moire. Would some sort of PC capture card help?

I have not found it possible to find concise and usable recommendations specific to the PC on all this. Highly detailed explanations about PAR and Screen Aspect Ratio differences abound, but it's the HOW and not the WHY that'd be most useful. If this is all repeating the already much-explained would somebody pl-e-e-e-ase point me in the right direction?

[David Jimerson]

I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking to how to make Encore make a better DVD with P2 stuff?

[Green Hornet]

In CS4, you can't use Prospect directly, as of today, but you can export from CS4 to other format and keep it HD.

You can go to WMV file at 1280x720 and then use TMPGEnc Authoring Works 4 and create and burn the DVD from the HD file.

You can probably use the cineform file to do the same, but CS4 does not support cineform at this time( it will crash, and the accelerator does not work within CS4 yet, so you can not make the cineform file from within CS4).

You can take an AVCHD file (or any file type your system supports) into TMPGEnc Authoring Works 4 and create any type of disk you wish (providing you have the hardware to burn it with)


Although TMPGEnc does not state they support P2, it essentially hi-jacks what ever codec you have on your system.
If you want to aurthor 16x9 then you simply select that option.
If you want to do 24p, then you just select that. It will know that a DVD needs to have pull down to play on a TV, so it just does it.
It won't try to force you to make an interlaced DVD if our footage is not interlaced.

[Bowen]

Thanks for responding guys. David the question boils down to:

Using the PC and DVCPro HD (720Pn) source material to produce an edited and authored 16:9 DVD (single layer). What software/compression should be used to get the the best possible quality DVD? Maybe some hardware is needed? (It's hard to know sometimes if it's my inexperience with authoring or just software glitches that are causing me problems.)

David thanks for the 16:9 suggestion. Do you think that different compression software produces different results for the same formats? e.g. would a CS4 MPEG2 be different from a TMPGEnc MPEG2 etc? WMV format works great for computer playback, but so far I haven't been that impressed after compression to DVD for TV. Thanks for taking the time to answer and I'll check out the TMPGEnc software - I've seen it recommended elsewhere too.

[Jim Simon]

You're dumbing down your HD footage to DVD, then asking the Blu-ray player to scale it back up?

Man, just get the burner already.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009260

[Bowen]

I need to deliver the DVD to groups of 30 / 40 people, most of whom don't have BD players but many of whom have wide screen TV's. Thanks for your suggestion. It's evidently all too simple for me to comprehend.

[Green Hornet]

On a PC, just take your high def footage and burn straight to TMPGEnc.
IS that simple enough?

Bump up the bit rrate untill it no loner plays on your player, then back down.

[Jim Simon]

I need to deliver the DVD to groups of 30 / 40 people,

OK. Here then we come back to the philosophical idea of why shoot in HD to begin with if delivery will be in SD? (I myself remain unconvinced of the 'advantages' of such a work flow.)

[David Jimerson]

Why wouldn't you want your acquisition to be in the highest quality possible?

[Bowen]

Hey Green Hornet, My remark re "simple" was intended for Jim Simon's useless comment. I should have made that more clear. However in the previous post I responded to your helpful suggestion and thanked you for your explanation, but incorrectly addressed my thanks to David. Apologies. In fact you were the only member who proffered any help at all.

My problems seem to have arisen mainly from issues with Encore CS4 limitations when Importing some formats. I already have AVID Sonic which I haven't used for ages, but now find can at least Import & Burn correctly where Encore could not.

I thought a resource for the how and why of Transcode paths might be out there for someone to point me at. There's vast amounts of codec explanation, but nothing I could find that sifts the chaff, points to the best software/hardware for the best compression quality for a given purpose etc. And with PC users discussing their experiences.

(The Apple tribe seem pretty self sufficient and helpful in this regard, and the inevitable MacPro I7 is sure going to be tempting. Maybe then, Final Cut. It's the easy P2 import and the trim-easy handles in PPro that sucked me in!)

[Zzx4k]

Export using Adobe Premiere's Media Encoder to H.264

Make it square pixels, make the size 1280X720, 4.1, main, change it to CBR (constant bit rate), up it to 20 or so, more or less depending on the size of your footage.

Make sure your multiplexer is set to PSP, in MP4 format.

should be good from there

I use Sony DVD Architect to build DVDs, and they look stunning on a regular TV.

I notice a large difference in the look of HD to SD, than SD to SD. But maybe thats just me.

Don't know if this helps or you already knew all this, but thought I would throw out my method.

Good Luck!

[Bowen]

Thanks heaps Zzx4k (!!). That's one option I haven't tried. The CBR at 20 is surprising (both because not VBR, which seems standard advice, and also the high rate). I'll sure give it a go when my current 6 hour transcode finishes! I've been thinking to give CBR a go anyway, because it's mostly concerts I'm filming and there isn't a lot of action variation from edit to edit (I think that's why VBR is recommended...)

[NorthernFilmMaker]

I have also been unimpressed by DVDs made through PPro/Encore. I have heard that Grass Valley Edius makes one of the best mpeg2 encoders, they offer procoder 3 that encodes to many different codecs but will run you about $700-800. Does anyone have any experience with procoder 3?

[Zzx4k]

Not a problem...here are my results from online mp4 files, 20 CBR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goe-bKD7ryQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yu11P_3bKg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIiIM74LQes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws_KRN1Uw7Y&feature=channel

Watch them in HD, then imagine them crisper and smoother on a CRT/LCD television.
Food for thought.

Good luck with it!

(DVD Architect = awesome for PC, version 4.0 or higher though...)

[Lumiere]

Export using Adobe Premiere's Media Encoder to H.264

Make it square pixels, make the size 1280X720, 4.1, main, change it to CBR (constant bit rate), up it to 20 or so, more or less depending on the size of your footage.

Make sure your multiplexer is set to PSP, in MP4 format.

should be good from there

I use Sony DVD Architect to build DVDs, and they look stunning on a regular TV.

I notice a large difference in the look of HD to SD, than SD to SD. But maybe thats just me.

Don't know if this helps or you already knew all this, but thought I would throw out my method.

Good Luck!

Why PSP i don't understand? Can you explain a bit more?

[ChipG]

I have also been unimpressed by DVDs made through PPro/Encore. I have heard that Grass Valley Edius makes one of the best mpeg2 encoders, they offer procoder 3 that encodes to many different codecs but will run you about $700-800. Does anyone have any experience with procoder 3?

I have Edius with Procoder 3 and really like it. It is so easy to use and the quality in 2 pass mode is one of the best there is. I also have Avid Media Composer but find myself using Edius & Procoder for outputting HD footage to SD dvd's because it's simple and looks awesome. It wasn't cheap I think I paid around $995 but saw a used copy (with dongle) on this board for really cheap.

[Zzx4k]

Why PSP i don't understand? Can you explain a bit more?


Well, to be honest, I don't think there is a huge difference between PSP, Standard, or iPod in the multiplexer tab. I just started using PSP, and I have been extremely happy with my results. I don't think it matters, unless you have a PSP ;).
For some reason off the top of my head I thought you had to have it set to PSP for the mp4 option, but apparently not.
All three should really work, I'm just copying and pasting my current settings, that's all. Nothing set in stone.