35mm lens adaptor. The big question!

[jujufactory]

Today I tested the EX1 to see how much narrow depth of field I could squeeze out of it without 35mm lens adaptor. The results were quite good. I'm wondering whether the 35mm lens adaptor really makes all that much difference compared to the regular lens with an open iris and ND filters. What are your thoughts on this? Is it really worth it to spend the 2000 euros on a 35mm lens adaptor and lenses?

[emondpph]

If I had the money I would certainly buy it... It really gives a look that a bare EX-1 can't match. But I imagine it changes quite a bit the workflow. Each shot requires more preparation. And the camera is more heavier to move. Tripod pretty much all the time.

[morgan_moore]

massive difference in look

Many practical downsides though

I only find the naked version 'tolerable' at the longest zoom - wide open

S

[jujufactory]

"I only find the naked version 'tolerable' at the longest zoom - wide open"

Could we have an English translation for what you wrote?



It is recommended only to use prime lenses with that. Why?

[Matttrebor]

the ex3/ex1's chip is about 8x4mm. Nothing like 36x20mm...
Yes, you can have a shallow depth of field with the EX1, but only at the end of the zoom : between 200 and 250mm.
So, that means you cannot move your camera around your subject, you must have a tripod, can't have a shallow dof inside a room, can't have (obviously) short focal... Very few kinds of shot.

It's a big extra money (kit35 + lenses), but you really can't compare with and without.

[MitchLewis]

"I only find the naked version 'tolerable' at the longest zoom - wide open"

Could we have an English translation for what you wrote?



It is recommended only to use prime lenses with that. Why?

Naked = EX1/EX3 without adaptor

Use only prime lenses? = Who told you that? You really should start a thread on the 35mm Adaptor section of this forum, but.....

I use a 17x35mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4, 80-200mm f/2.8 and they work great. The only advantage to using prime lenses is that you can "normally" get a larger apature. For example, with my 17x35mm I can only open up to f/2.8. But if you bought a 28mm prime, you can get them in a f/1.4 which means you can shoot in llower light and get even less DOF than with my f/2.8. Does that make sense?

I my experience (2 weeks of shooting a TON of stuff) the biggest pain is switching lenses to get the shot you want. I'm constantly switching them out during a shoot. My dream lens would be a 17-200 f/1.4, but there is no such lens. But everyone has noticed that the quality of our footage has gone up dramatically, so I guess it's worth it. Focus is much more critical now. I've shot interviews where they are in focus, but moved a little bit (and I didn't notice them move) and they were slightly out of focus the rest of the interview. You got to check focus very often.

Finally....they way I look at it is that my "bag of tricks" has increased dramatically. Before with our Canon XL-1S I just turned on the camera, white balanced and started shooting. Now I have to decide what lens, how much DOF I want (what apature to shoot at) whether to shoot slow-mo (720 30p 60fps) or what shutter speed, or maybe no shutter at all. You can get a lot more "looks" with your video using the EX1/EX3 and a 35mm adaptor, but it also takes an additional amount of work setting up each shot. Not a lot more work, but it is more fiddely. :)

[booth]

Today I tested the EX1 to see how much narrow depth of field I could squeeze out of it without 35mm lens adaptor. The results were quite good. I'm wondering whether the 35mm lens adaptor really makes all that much difference compared to the regular lens with an open iris and ND filters. What are your thoughts on this? Is it really worth it to spend the 2000 euros on a 35mm lens adaptor and lenses?

I say yes, being able to use 35mm lenses is totally worth it.

http://www.pleasedsheep.com/images/PennineFilmFest09/240_0305_01.jpg

I shot this last Thursday and there's no way I could have got that with the stock lens.

[MitchLewis]

I forgot to add one very important thing....

Because I shoot mostly television commercials for local retailers, hospitals, etc..., I end up shooting in a lot of less then optimal locations. Shooting employees/doctors/staff in very small rooms normally yields very unattractive footage. With the stock lens on any video camera, you have no chance of being able to blur the background because there's simply not enough room. With the 35mm adaptor and the 50mm f/1.4 lens, I'm able to achieve a soft blur for the background which sets off the subject much better.

Here's a few examples:

http://www.ssscc.org/ftp/examples/culligan-01.jpg
http://www.ssscc.org/ftp/examples/culligan-02.jpg
http://www.ssscc.org/ftp/examples/tcl-01.jpg
http://www.ssscc.org/ftp/examples/tcl-02.jpg

[jujufactory]

Philip Bloom says one should not use zoom lenses with the Letus and one should get the Elite to avoid the backfocus issues. Finally, some say rods are not necessary if you use only 25,50 or 100 lenses. The follow focus is another issue. Is it necessary? Thank you for clearing up these questions if possible. Thank you.

[Bobonli]

Philip Bloom says one should not use zoom lenses with the Letus and one should get the Elite to avoid the backfocus issues. Finally, some say rods are not necessary if you use only 25,50 or 100 lenses. The follow focus is another issue. Is it necessary? Thank you for clearing up these questions if possible. Thank you.

If you look down in the 35mm adapter forum, all of these questions are answered in great detail. You can use zooms, there's no rule against it. In fact, Mr. Bloom is using a zoom in one of the videos on You tube in which he's walking around Las Vegas with his rig, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes the Elite is the same as the Extreme but with a backfocus "fix," which you can see on their website: http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/letus-adapters.html

Sooner or later you'll need rods. The rods are necessary to support the adapter and lens. The adapter is going to "hang" off the camera at an unusual angle so it will need support so as to not stress the couplings.

Having gone through the questions you are aksing about a month ago (look for the thread down in the adapters forum), I'll tell you that the adapter itself is relatively inexpensive. It's the accessories that quickly drive the price up: rods, lenses, monitor so you can see framing and focus, and follow focus. I have a quote sitting in my desk for a $6,500 system and only $1,800 of it is the Letus; all the rest, is support gear to make using it easier!

Do a search in the adapter forum.

[MitchLewis]

Bobonii has it right on with his post.

In my opinion backfocus isn't a big issue unless you plan to zoom while recording (something you never see in cinema). For example, if you use a zoom like I do, you just zoom in/out to frame your shot, then focus, then hit the record button. If your backfocus is off, it doesn't matter, just focus and shoot. Honestly, I've had trouble setting the backfocus on our Ultimate (my fault not the Ultimate), but it hasn't been an issue.

I don't think a follow focus is "necessary". If you have someone that can go with you on all your shoots, then having a follow focus would be handy for them to use if you want to do some cool rack focus shots. It also makes focusing a little easier because it's smoother and easier to access. But.....I haven't missed having one much. Phillip didn't use one for quite a while either.

Check out the 35mm adaptor section. You'll find answers to your next questions:

1) Which is the best adaptor?
2) Which 35mm lenses should I buy?
3) What about rods?
4) Tripod?
5) Matte box?
6) Portable monitor?
7) Matte box filters?

The list just gets longer and longer. :)

[jujufactory]

I think backfocus is a problem if you try to achieve infinity focus. Philip told me he could never get infinity focus without fiddling with the backfocus a lot. Is that a problem for you?

As far as zoom zeiss lenses are concerned I tend to believe a doit all lens going from 25 to 100 is the way to go. However the Philip bloom element tells me it's not a good idea for areason I did not quite understand.

Finally, the intercutting between adaptor shots and non adaptor shots may not work as they may not look the same in focus and even saturation.

What do you think?

[MitchLewis]

The infinity focus issue is correct. If I go to infity on any of lenses, it will be slightly out of focus. I guess I need to play with the back focus to fix that. I find that it's hard to do unless you have a large focus chart. But maybe I wasn't doing it correctly. I need to make time to try doing that proceedure again.

There are lenses that go from 25-100. You'll find this site a good resource:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/nikkor.htm#af

Nikon makes a 18-200mm but it's f/3.5-5.6 and it's a G series lens so it doesn't allow for manual setting of apature. If you do the research you'll find that Nikon doesn't make a lens that had both a low f-stop and a manual setting for apature. But yeah, that would be a great lens.

Intercutting between adaptor shots and non-adaptor shots is something I haven't tried yet. But all my adaptor shots look different than anything I've shot over the last 20-years. Will they look okay when cut together? Problably. Will you be able to tell the difference? Yes. Will anyone else? Probably not. If you ever watch the show Top Gear, they inter cut may different styles of shooting. Different color shades, DOF, etc... It makes the show look more interesting in my opinion. :)

[Joseph Stunzi]

You've already gotten some great points on here... but keep in mind that Phillip Bloom's footage looks good not only because of the quality equipment he uses, but also because of his experience.

There are plenty of talented and skilled members here on DVXuser that have answers. But do remember to search or them first. Lots of repeat questions are answered.

Personally, I prefer to talk over the phone. It's easier for me. So feel free to PM and I'll give you my number.

But you really need to start thinking about support equipment. The adapter is one thing. Lenses, baseplates, rods, lens supports, etc... is a whole other ballgame!

[MitchLewis]

I would highly recommend Joseph, he helped me with everything when I was starting out with the transition to the EX3 and 35mm adaptors. Even though his avatar doesn't portray it, he's a really knowledgable source.

[Bobonli]

I would highly recommend Joseph, he helped me with everything when I was starting out with the transition to the EX3 and 35mm adaptors. Even though his avatar doesn't portray it, he's a really knowledgable source.

I'll second that. Joseph helped me too. But reading through the threads down in the adapter forum is the very best place to start.

It probably also goes without saying that that if you are new to the EX-1 it's prudent to take a healthy amount of time to learn the basic camera before setting off into the world of adapters.

[Joseph Stunzi]

Looks like this call is going to be international! Woot woot. Do you have skype?