Editing EX1 footage with Premiere!

[jujufactory]

I could not get a straight answer on the Adobe forums so I'll as it here.

Up until now I used Cineform codec (Aspect) to edit HDV. I would import in Aspect, edit Aspect, and Export Aspect. All my rendered archive footage is in Aspect.

Fine... now here comes the EX1 with its EX1 files. (Let's call it EX1 codec).

I have two options:

(1) Either I use the old technique and stick with my Cineform Codec, make the conversions and edit in Cineform. (The advantage is that I can render AVI files which I can render back and forth from one program to the next or do color correction on it with minimal generation loss). This option would require me to purchase Cineform Prospect HD (for full HD resolution) and convert all my EX1 files prior to editing. It would also require me to edit in CS3 as Cineform is not yet compatible with CS4.

or

(2) I can edit the EX1 footage natively in CS4. This option would allow me to avoid the conversion hassle and having to purchase Prospect codec. However I don't see how I could render AVI files for going from one program to the next. Moreover I don't know what that means in stability or rendering speed and/or general processor handling capacity once I have 10 layers of footage to run. Also I don't know about color correction and the generation loss one can expect when doing it natively.

Does anybody have experience with this? I don't have any feedback and have not been able to make a decision on this yet.

Thank you for any help.

[David Newman]

To help on item 1), the upgrade cost for your existing Aspect HD license to Prospect HD is now only $199. It will go up to $250 in month, but it is still a much smaller upgrade fee than it was previously. This includes the upcoming CS4 support. Then you can have the best of 1 & 2. If you want bring EX1 file in native, but render out to 1920x1080 10bit AVIs when moving between applications -- or just batch transcode you EX1 source and use CineForm AVI through out at 1920x1080.

[jujufactory]

David the Cineform site is very confusing. There is no distinction made between upgrades and new purchases. The is no easy way to look up key information such as compatibility list, conversion procedures etc. I would like to upgrade but I have no idea where the upgrade form is.

[David Newman]

Cick Buy Now on any of the pages. Then click the name of the product you are interested, e.g. "Prospect HD" or the "View" button below. Listed are all the upgrade and cross-grade options.

compatibility list is so extensive, the already huge cluttered site would get much worse (we are fixing it soon.) Best to just use the 15-day trial to see who it works for your source and PC.

[jujufactory]

See I just don't get it. Do I open a Prospect project in CS3 and import EX1 files or do I use a regular project in CS3 and import Prospect files? Will CS4 work? I just have no clarifications provided at the Cineform site. I've never see a company which relies on software downloads provide such a confusing site. Cineform should really get its act together and model its like others do. Look at the Genarts.com site. Within seconds you know what's going on. Now look at the Cineform site. It takes a forum just to get people to figure out the difference between Neo and Aspect and Prospect. Get a real webdesigner and make a real site. You should lay down specific instructions for using Cineform with each editing software out there and with each HD format. On a scale from 0 to 10 in clarity, the Cineform site gets barely a 1.

[David Newman]

We do reply on the community a lot, although not much happening here on CineForm issues (try dvinfo.net). The web designers are already hired.

Basically open HDLink, batch your EX1 files into CineForm AVI, then load those into CS3, (CS4 support is coming.)

[jujufactory]

David, now we're talking. I could not get any of this information on the Adobe forums.

Here's my dilemma: As far as I know CS4 will do EX1 native. I have never tested it but I assume it's probably more practical. On the other hand when it comes to exporting Prospect comes in handy. Unfortunately Prospect does not work in CS4, just CS3. So either way I'm missing out on something. Do I really need to try both to figure out the best way or are there people who have already tried it and which way is better?

Ideally that's the sort of info which should be on your website. Your website should also explain in detail what HDLink is, what batching EX1 files means. There should be step by step instructions for each editing software and explanations as to why one option would be recommended over another. Finally the purchase form should have the UPGRADE section separate from the PURCHASE section. The cover page should list the key programs and suggest with pictures what goes with what. For example, NEO should have a Macintosh image, Prospect HD a small camera image, etc... as well as software logos.

Get this site under control. I'm willing to bet the confusion costs you a lot of clients who are not willing to fight their way through days of forum discussions just to know what the hell is going on.

This said, while you're here it would be great if you could shed more light on these questions. Thank you.

[Iudex]

I'm editing EX1 raw footage with CS4, it even has XDCAM EX listed as a sequence preset with all recording modes. I'll leave you a picture.

What are the advantages of using Cineform?

The only problem I have encountered using raw and CS4 is that I don't really know how to export being sure I'm not loosing any quality... if I export for YouTube then I know what to do, if I export for DVD I know what to do, but I don't know what to do if I just want to cut my raw footage without loosing quality at all. Anyone could shed a light on this? Thanks!

[jujufactory]

Iudex, are you sure you don't lose any quality when you do color correction? Have you tried enditing longer shows (1 or 2 hours)? Is native editing stable? How do you render an effect into an AVI file and then back onto your projet? Tell me more.

[Iudex]

Sorry, can't answer because I'm just getting started!

Haven't done any color correction yet.

The longest export was 10 minutes, revising 2 hours of raw footage.

Never had any stability problems.

Never rendered any effects! But in CS4 there is a "Create new after effects composition" option, or something like that.

Get your hands on a trial and test it, I guess...

[jujufactory]

I don't need a trial. I have CS3 and CS4. I just need to figure out which way to go and where Prospect comes in. Cineform has done a lousy job at explaining anything and as much as I am a Cineform fan I'm beginning to believe these guys have a real communications problem. They should be telling us what to do and we should not have to chase after them. If you tell me CS4 is stable in Native and if I can't solve the Prospect questions I'm dumping the intermediate codec option and do what everybody else does: Just edit native without questioning things. Cineform has had the worst website for years now. I'm beginning to question their competence. Would you trust a company that can't even make a half way decent website? I could do a better site in a weekend.

[BradCube]

I'm editing EX1 footage natively in Premiere Pro CS4 without many hitches at all. Longest edit I have put together is probably around 45 mins for a multicam wedding shoot.

Having said this, although I don't personally use cineform, I still regard it as a better option for color correction outside of premiere. Files are smaller than uncompressed video and you can still retain 10bit.

My current solution has been to do a basic color grade in Premiere and then import the whole sequence into after effects and finish it off there - that way both premiere and after effects are grading on the original Ex1 clips. I have only done this on a short film that lasted about 5mins though. I would have serious questions regarding stability pushing beyond this too much. In fact for situations like this cineform would be the ideal solution I imagine.

Hope this helps somewhat.

[jujufactory]

So you're telling me to edit native in CS4?

[BradCube]

You will have to make your own mind up on that.

If you are looking at pulling large quantities of footage out of premiere and into other apps on a regular basis, I would stick with cineform. If you going to be doing most of your jobs within CS4, then I would look at just editing natively. You should also make sure that you have a fairly well specced system if you are wanting to edit natively, as ex1 footage can be pretty demanding to decode, grade and cut all in one hit.

[jujufactory]

- Motherboard: P5E
- Chipset: Intel X38
- Memory: 4 GB DDR2 1066
- Processor: Pentium Dual Quad Core 9300
- Graphic Card: Matrox Pahelia

No Raid!

[rhino4589]

Hey all, I am having trouble viewing my EX1 footage on premiere. I imported the footage on a mac with XDCAM transfer then put it onto a hard drive for a client and he says that premiere wont read it. He has CS3. Any way to allow him to view it?

[TheRealMe]

I was under the impression that Premiere was able to edit XDCAM EX natively since version 3.2... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoNhqxAK_u8&feature=related

What's the point of using this complicated workflow (Cineform, converting to AVI...)? I must be missing something. I'm really want to know cause I'm gonna be the editor for a short documentary that was shot on an EX3 -- I'm used to work with P2 and DVCPRO HD but I've never worked with XDCAM EX footage. Anything I should know? I only have two days to finish the movie, so I'm a bit nervous...

[rhino4589]

CS3 can natively import xdcam with the original files... but I already imported them from xdcam transfer and it made them .mov and now my client can't view them on his pc. I really need a fix for this since I dont have the cards anymore.

[TheRealMe]

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.