Should I exchange my EX1 for a EX3?

[jujufactory]

The more I think about it the more I believe the EX3 was created to replace the EX1 altogether. I feel soon the EX3 will be the only reference among professionals. Just go to the Sony site and the only thing you see in the EX category is the EX3. Many video stores now display principally the EX3.

The fact is the EX1 is constructed like a HDV camera while the EX3 feels like a real high end HD CAM camera. You know the EX1 will be obsolete eventually while the EX3 is designed with such versatility it may still be around in 10 years.

The fact is even holding the EX1 is a drag. It is heavier than the Z1 and just as awkward while the EX3 is a half shoulder camera. The EX3 has a professional viewfinder while the EX1 still has that "prosumer" flip out system. Finally the lens option makes the EX3 a clear choice for any future upgrades.

You can pimp up the EX1 with hoods, plastic viewfinders and special shoulder mounts to play catch up but in the end you'll wonder why you didn't get the EX3 in the firat place.

The EX3 is really the all in one camera while the EX1 remains a high end prosumer camera. Is it worth it for me to sell the EX1 on e-Bay and get an EX3 on Globalmediapro (They sell it for 6000 euros and I can sell my EX1 for 4000. That's a 2000 euro difference). My feeling is 6 months from now the EX1 will not sell for even 3,500 euros.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think I should switch now while I still can?

[Emanuel]

The more I think about it the more I believe the EX3 was created to replace the EX1 altogether. I feel soon the EX3 will be the only reference among professionals. Just go to the Sony site and the only thing you see in the EX category is the EX3. Many video stores now display principally the EX3.

The fact is the EX1 is constructed like a HDV camera while the EX3 feels like a real high end HD CAM camera. You know the EX1 will be obsolete eventually while the EX3 is designed with such versatility it may still be around in 10 years.

The fact is even holding the EX1 is a drag. It is heavier than the Z1 and just as awkward while the EX3 is a half shoulder camera. The EX3 has a professional viewfinder while the EX1 still has that "prosumer" flip out system. Finally the lens option makes the EX3 a clear choice for any future upgrades.

You can pimp up the EX1 with hoods, plastic viewfinders and special shoulder mounts to play catch up but in the end you'll wonder why you didn't get the EX3 in the firat place.

The EX3 is really the all in one camera while the EX1 remains a high end prosumer camera. Is it worth it for me to sell the EX1 on e-Bay and get an EX3 on Globalmediapro (They sell it for 6000 euros and I can sell my EX1 for 4000. That's a 2000 euro difference). My feeling is 6 months from now the EX1 will not sell for even 3,500 euros.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think I should switch now while I still can?I've been too much impressed with all the footage I've seen so far. If I was not a RED customer and the Canon 5D MKII wouldn't be around, I think I'd submit to temptation and would buy one. But, have a look:

http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=402#p4222

2ndly, it is listed for 5510.00, not 6000. Where's the beef? Price without VAT? (EDIT -- Never mind, I've already checked it out. It excludes all local taxes, VAT etc)

[GuyB]

...while the EX3 is a half shoulder camera.
which is pretty awkward in itself and the tripod mount is so bad everyone is searching for plates to fix it.

The EX3 has a professional viewfinder
not by a long shot, all it has is a magnifyer on the same LCD as the EX1.

while the EX1 still has that "prosumer" flip out system.
same LCD, but you can't pack it away on a EX3 making the EX3 much bulkier to transport safely.

Finally the lens option makes the EX3 a clear choice for any future upgrades.
most people rwon't actually replace the EX3's lens. It is an expensive option

You can pimp up the EX1 with hoods, plastic viewfinders and special shoulder mounts to play catch up but in the end you'll wonder why you didn't get the EX3 in the firat place.
I havn't pimped it out at all and the only reason I would want a 3 is for a different lens for sports, but only if the income for buying it supported the investment which in general it won't.

The EX3 is really the all in one camera while the EX1 remains a high end prosumer camera.
Give me a break, thats utter garbage

You can make an EX1 bigger by tricking it out but you can never make an EX3 smaller.

...

[ChrisDTV]

I agree with GuyB - I dont own the EX1 or 3 but have shot on the EX3. I think the EX1 is perfectly placed - its size is highly beneficial if you want to keep things light weight (particularly important if you need a quality back-up / b-camera to go with your HDCAM), whereas the EX3 is an awkward size - but fine if its your main camera. You get the same image quality from both cameras, so I think you should ask yourself this: 'Do I need a camera that has interchangeable lenses? And if I were to buy it, will I invest in such lenses in the next year? If your answers are positive then go for it, if not, then save your money and wait until you're ready to invest in a new camera and lens - at which time the EX3 will probably have been updated...

[spa_edwards]

people do my nut in in this industry. You get an EX1, which is almost exactly the same as the EX3, but because they dont know what the hell there talking about they keep going on about the EX3.

"what cam you got" - well i got the EX1,
"not the EX3" - no the EX1 and 3 are almost identical and are the same thing.
"No they aint - you can take off the lens on the EX3", so your hiring lenses for this shoot,
"erm no" - by this point i just want to jizz in there stupid face and leave em to it. Next it'l be that scarlet everyone'll be raving about and the EX3 will become john merricks little brother.

[Bobonli]

If you are trying to convince yourself to get the EX-3, it sounds like you've already accomplished your mission! Either that or you're writing an advertisement for the camera or the place selling it.

The interchangeable lens option is, for many I think, a distraction. Are you really going to replace the lens, taking into consideration the price of the add on lenses?

One of the reasons I bought an SLR 25 years ago camera was to have an interchangeable lens system. For the longest time I had many, many Nikon lenses which I hauled around on my back. Why? Because the camera was made to switch lenses! The quality of my work was no better because I had nine lenses instead of only one. The same is true of video work. Having the ability to swap lenses will not make someone's work better.

If you really need to swap lenses then get it. Otherwise, it's essentially the same camera.

[frisco]

I studied them both.... I bought the EX3....actually Two EX3's

Nice camera.

frisco

[Tata Steva]

I'm sticking with my EX1 for now. And, I'll wait for EX5:beer:

[brianluce]

I own an EX3. The reason to get the EX3 is if you want/need to stick telephoto lenses on it. I don't think the form factor is enough to justify the price difference. But if you do wild life, action sports, EX3 is your girl.

Btw, EX3 and EX1 use the same lens.

My dos centavos.

[jujufactory]

Yes but the EX3 has that great viewfinder (which really makes it feel like a real movie camera) and you can brace it against your shoulder. The EX1 will destroy your wrist muscles or you back muscles if you wear one of these Indian bogus EX1 rigs. The EX1 also looks like a real professional camera on a professional set. Isn't that worth the extra 2000 Euros?

[GuyB]

oh please, I smell troll....

[brianluce]

Yes but the EX3 has that great viewfinder (which really makes it feel like a real movie camera) and you can brace it against your shoulder. The EX1 will destroy your wrist muscles or you back muscles if you wear one of these Indian bogus EX1 rigs. The EX1 also looks like a real professional camera on a professional set. Isn't that worth the extra 2000 Euros?

For me, it's not worth the extra 2k. Just think of the women and beer you could buy with 2k. A pimped out EX1 could still look pretty slick.

[USLatin]

I say nay... why? I know what the differences are and I can't see them justifying the extra $$$

there are solutions out there that cost less right?

if you are worried about the look then I say you definitely should not be spending the extra cash

[USLatin]

if you really, seriously have to worry so much about the look, then just get a RR matte box follow focus and a good AT4073a shotgun on it with a dead cat

the $2,000 will cover that and you'll have a better rig IMO...

[Buck Forester]

The small size of the EX1 with such a great image in a small box is the whole reason I got it. If the EX1 cost more than the EX3, I'd still get the EX1. I need the small form and the crazy awesome footage for backpacking/kayaking. You're only looking at it from your perspective, there are other perspectives out there. I see this a lot around here when comparing cameras. Many folks simply do not 'get it' that the EX1 hits the high-def broadcasting 'specs' for high-definition channels at the least cost in the smallest form (well, there's probably some very expensive little pov cameras that are smaller). Obviously the EX3 is a fantastic camera for those needing the high-def specs and interchangeable lenses and a few other bells that comes with a little larger form camera, at still a freakin' incredible price point. I have spoken. Please, please be seated. Thank you. Each and every one of you. You know who you are.

[Granville]

oh please, I smell troll....

I am curious . . . what does this mean?

[frisco]

Yes but the EX3 has that great viewfinder (which really makes it feel like a real movie camera) and you can brace it against your shoulder. The EX1 will destroy your wrist muscles or you back muscles if you wear one of these Indian bogus EX1 rigs. The EX1 also looks like a real professional camera on a professional set. Isn't that worth the extra 2000 Euros?

I think you meant the EX3 looks more pro.........

That said...... Only a true insecure amateur would be concerned about the "Size" of his camera and what other people think!

I once did a print ad for a major Ad Agency for a Major Hotel chain. Total cost of production was just over a hundred grand.

I shot it on a $9.00 plastic camera called a Holga. I had 10 of them cause they all shoot a little different. There on my $2000.00 Gitzo tripod sat a nine dollar plastic camera.

If your concerned about what your clients think about your camera.... Your in big trouble cause your thinking about the wrong thing !!!

frisco

[GuyB]

I am curious . . . what does this mean?

someone trolling the forum doing nothing but trying to insight useless arguments and get on peoples nerves by making and arguing ridiculous claims...

[emotepix]

Just completed principal photography on a dramatic piece shot guerrilla style in downtown Los Angeles. Don't think I could have gotten away with an EX3, but the EX1 was quick and easy. Sometimes a less "pro looking" rig will get the job done better..

[jujufactory]

Well in that case, what rig would you get if you had to choose between these two?

http://www.cinetactics.com/Detail.bok?no=15

or this one?

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280300932900#ebayphotohosting

Thank you.

[USLatin]

Trolling: To ask weird stuff in order to drive people nutz.

Example:

Well in that case, what rig would you get if you had to choose between these two?

http://www.cinetactics.com/Detail.bok?no=15

or this one?

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280300932900#ebayphotohosting

Thank you.

:D

[jujufactory]

US Latin, you're the one driving people nuts by raising some off topic "trolling" accusations. Who elected you to decide what questions are legitimate? What you call trolling I call asking questions which are important to me. If anybody is "trolling" around here it is you by preventing people from asking questions by suggesting they are troublemakers. You don't have questions? Good for you. I do. So please, pardon my French but either contribute to the discussion by helping out or get lost. Thank you.

The Mattbox question is a legitimate one and the EX1 vs EX3 question is more than legitimate as most people have struggled with that issue at one point or another. So once again, and this suggar on top, either contribute by helping out or get lost.

[emotepix]

Funny about your question about matte boxes - I think I may be invited to do a review of the latter unit shortly, especially in view of previous, less than stellar reports in its performance and construction elsewhere.

Another point for the EX1 and less so for the EX3 is transport on an aircraft. I managed to get an entire doco style shooting kit into a single backpack that I was able to carry on with me and get shooting moments after I landed. Possible with my EX1, harder with the 3.

[hammerhorror]

I personally bought the EX3 because of the time code inputs/outputs and genlock. I also have a use for the interchangeable lens option.

I do alot of multicamera shoots (concerts, sports, etc). These extra features make my life much easier for those types of shoots.

If you will find yourself working on the types of jobs that will warrant an EX3 then go for it, if not, save your money.

[USLatin]

US Latin, you're the one driving people nuts by raising some off topic "trolling" accusations. Who elected you to decide what questions are legitimate? What you call trolling I call asking questions which are important to me. If anybody is "trolling" around here it is you by preventing people from asking questions by suggesting they are troublemakers. You don't have questions? Good for you. I do. So please, pardon my French but either contribute to the discussion by helping out or get lost. Thank you.

The Mattbox question is a legitimate one and the EX1 vs EX3 question is more than legitimate as most people have struggled with that issue at one point or another. So once again, and this suggar on top, either contribute by helping out or get lost.


lol dude, chill out, it was supposed to be funny... about the question it all depends... if you have the extra money and need HD acquisition in the future then the HVX hands down, but if you are planning on shooting DV only then you might want to save some moey and get the 150 or 170 can't remember which you pointed to... but if you were talking about matte boxes I'd go with toe one on the HVX cause I heard it was nice for the moeny and know nothing about the other lol

[jujufactory]

I think the best option is to get a LETUS lens adaptor onto the EX1 which will give me a better camera than the EX3. The Letus seems to yield really good movie look results in providing a narrow depth of field. However I don't know if ND filters on the EX1 with an open iris won't give me similar depth of field.

As far as Matt Boxes are concerned, I would love to know if anybody here has experience with these Indian Matt boxes and/or cheap Mattboxes nin general.

Also I'm looking for a 500 or 600 Euro tripod with a good fluid head and which can be raised high. Any tripod recommendations in that pricerange?
Thabnk you.

[USLatin]

I concur, but the lenses would be too much additional money and go beyond the $2,000 unless you plan carefully... I'd go with the SGblade though cause you can use faster shutters and stop down lower giving you more flexibility thanks to it's spinning GG, and it is still very fast, close enough for sure from what I've read, and it starts at $890.- leaving you $1,000 for lenses...

but I'd much rather first get a good mic and follow focus than jump into adapter land with only $2,000.- to spend

the 1/2" sensor will not give you narrow enough DOF on the wide range which will make you zoom in more than you need and walk back making your movie either too stationary or too shaky if you are really admen about throwing things way out of focus, sure it will be more than a 1/3" chip but not "enough" IMO, and in the opinions of a few owners I've talked to BUT, I'll take a well rounded 1/2 rig over a half complete 35mm

remember it is all about content first, so make sure you can control focus, don't get a 35mm adapter with a lens or two and no FF, that would be a bad mistake to make


good luck with the tripod, definitely used for that much money, have some patience and you may find something decent but you really should spend a lot more on your tripod and head if you plan to use it a lot... it is an intrinsical piece to your rig

[jujufactory]

I'm not sure I understand your point.

(1) You claim the SGBlade is cheaper but once you throw in the rails and compare that to the the Letus35 Extreme Starter Bundle which goes for $1,700 and includes the rod support system, lens mount, ring size, custom case, you don't see much of a price difference.

The SG Blade goes for:

SgBlade Image converter: 600 Pounds
Flip Module: 320 Pounds
Rod Support: 120 Pounds
Lens Mount: 50 Pounds
Step Ring: 10 Pounds

That's 1100 Pounds which is just about the same price as the Letus Bundle once you do the currency conversion. On top of that, the Letus is a faster lens and does not require the added weight of a Flip Module. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

(2) As far as Lenses are concerned, on Ebay you can get 50mm Nikon lenses for reasonable money.

This one was sold for 100 Euros:

NIKON NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4 AI

This said, I'm not sure whether any photo lens will do or whether only certain lenses are recommended. I don't know where to get 35mm film Zeiss or Panavision lenses so I'm confused on what exactly you need or where to get it. Ideally I would want a 50mm lens for 80% of my shots and perhaps a 20mm lens for small places or more mobile shots. However, I spoke to an Expert XD CAM HD cinematographer who told me you can't use regular lenses on HD cameras because you need HD lenses to avoid visual aberrations of all kind. So I'm not sure slapping a Nikon on and EX1 will do it. There are tests which support that. Philipp Bloom is the first person I see getting those excellent results without hassle. But here again, perhaps I'm missing something.

(3) I don't know about Follow focus. I don't see Phillip Bloom discussing or recomending a follow focus which suggests it isn't absolutely necessary unless you have a camera assistant next to you (which I don't). Plus the follow focus subject is so confusing because you never know what is compatible with what.

GPro offers the following follow focus:

Follow Focus: 220 Pounds
Len Gears: 30 Pounds

But then I don't know if that is compatible with non Gpro rod systems and vice versa. This whole debade about 15mm rods, 60mm this, height, size, length etc... from one manufacturer to the next leaves me totally confused. The same goes for MattBoxes. Will the Idian Rail MattBox fit on any 15mm Rail system?

Any advice to clear up these issues would be welcome.

[USLatin]

I didn't do the math for you just suggesting pieces of equipment in the order I woud invest into them based on what you told us your concerns were... you want to get a pro looking rig, am I wrong? I thought that's what you were concerned with.

_Matte Box, Redrocks is amazing and super affordable.
_AT4073a shotgun mic, it is directional but not super narrow with long pick up, which could make it quite ideal for run and gun. Add to this a decent shock mount and fur.
_FF I'd get the RedRock, it is very good and very affordable.

A Follow Focus shoud help you focus, period, so if you want to go manual they won't hurt and you don't need an AC for that... I thought it might give you more of the look that you were looking for while helpping you nail your manual focus. Not a bad piece of equipment to have though you could certainly put that cash into your tripoid if you don't get a 35mm adapter, which would really help to have with a FF if you do. though operting the EX1 hand held may make it impossible to use the FF as you might want to get your left hand under the camera which would still let you operate the focus ring... not sure.

About the 35mm adapters, I'd get the SGpro over the LEX because I woudn't want to be limited with the LEX... what if you need to capture fast motion stuff and you need to up the shutter... are you going to take the adapter off which would take you a while? Are you getting the adapter for the look, wouldn't your customers get upset? I don't know about that satuff man, that is your deal don't ask me to read your mind I am just trying to help with the points I think I coud bring up that you may not have forseen.

About still glass on HD cameras... if you buy crappy glass you will get crappy results, if your adapter is not set up properly you will get crappy results... but if you don't do those things a lens that ismade for 17MP shots (a round about resolution you could extract from a 35mm still film negative) they shoud do just fine. The main concern with still lenses I woud say is focus throw... then other things like breathing and tracking. If you really want good manual glass get Zeiss ZF lenses or research other Leica, etc... some even pull focus cine style.

I can't remember if the EX1 flips the image... I don't think it does so you would need a flip. There are also other cameras out there like the HPX170 that do flip and disingage the focus ring for protection,but you might be going with the EX for the more compressed codec for post.

BTW, the 50mm will be super cheap, but the 20mm will most certainly not be even close to costing twice as much as the 50mm, and you'd be limited to normal and wide with only two focal lenghs. Also you'd have to switch them and this may not be helpfull in run and gun situations.

[jujufactory]

There are quite a few topics here. Can I call you up to discuss this? If so, please send me your phone number to info@b-mol.com

Thank you.

[FrankC]

JuJu... I don't think you can go wrong if you follow what Phillip Bloom is doing with his EX1. His work is just stunning using the Letus Extreme. Yes, the EX1 and the EX3 are internally exactly the same camera. As others have mentioned, for all that extra money to Sony, all you're getting is an interchangeable lens feature which one will almost never use, and the BNC connectors for the outputs instead of Sony's proprietary connectors. Now I wish I had those BNC connectors as I really hate the little Sony connectors on my EX1... BUT I'm not willing to pay thousands of dollars for that benefit.
I have my EX1 on a Cavision shoulder and double hand mount which works superbly well (and only cost about $250US)... and makes it look very "pro" since that's a hot-button for you. Add a matte-box (RedRock and Cavision come to mind) and you've got the best small HD package for the money!

[hantanbl]

I have my EX1 on a Cavision shoulder and double hand mount which works superbly well (and only cost about $250US)... and makes it look very "pro" since that's a hot-button for you. Add a matte-box (RedRock and Cavision come to mind) and you've got the best small HD package for the money!

Frank, is this what you referring to? For $250?
http://www.cavision.com/rods/RS15SP.htm

[zeke]

I can see getting an EX3 if you want to use the 2/3" adapter and Zeiss Digiprimes/zooms (rent of course). Fujinon and Canon also make Cine style lens that aren't that expensive to rent. One of the issues I've read about when using 35mm adapters is the different look between different lenses, causing issues in Post. But then again, some people have no problems with that.

[USLatin]

Yea.. that's an other reason why Zeiss ZF primes and other color matched sets with long focus throws are really the only way to go if you can manage to get them... NOT that Nikons aren't great, please don't start that... a little work in post can fix it, but sure is a PITA to have to worry about matching before you can start grading.

Getting into a 35mm adapter is NOT as easy as 1 2 3... there are a ton of variables added, and it is not cheap to do it right... and done right it still isn't a walk in the park... I agree that being able to shoot 2/3 might be best for run and gun seeking shallow DoF... not that I have been running around shooting 1/3 2/3 and s35 my whole life, but it just makes sense and there is a reason why trends develop...

[jujufactory]

I'm thinking of mounting this lens:

http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Camera-Lenses/1902/AF-NIKKOR-50mm-f%252F1.4D.html

On a Letus Expreme. And shoot most of the film with this setup. How difficult can that be?

[USLatin]

Perhaps add an other $200 and get a ZF Zeiss 50mm f1.4 for the much longer focus throw and excellent mechanical feel.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=ZF+zeiss+50mm&btnG=Search+Products&show=dd&cid=13549181395697678950#ps-sellers

[jujufactory]

The lens looks good. However I'm being told the Letus Extreme has a backfocus problem. You constantly have to adjust it and it is difficult to get to it. They've corrected the problem on the Letus Elite but the pricetag is very high. Do you know of the least expensive way to get the job done? Is Letus really the way to go.

[tonykart125]

extreme is the way to go. You can always get an extreme and buy the update piece to get to the elite.

[jujufactory]

Have you worked with the Extreme?