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Emanuel
01-13-2009, 02:24 AM
I've found this:

http://www.vimeo.com/2704404

Link for the artist, Luke Allen Humphrey:

http://www.lukeallenhumphrey.com/

Courtesy by ESTEBEVERDE, as anyone could follow here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1519661&postcount=45


I agree, «The Proof is in the Pudding (...)» :laugh: -- stop to whine against the usual limitations. Shoot, as simple as that.

This is worthy of its (new) thread, that's what for they have been thought, right?

The DSLRs have been bringing new artists from photographers, designers to the moviemaking field. More than the stereoscope/3D add-on (?), this is the real revolution.

Not so sure with Reverie, though.

artforme
01-13-2009, 02:45 AM
Thanks for sharing.
-
What do people do for their camera's when filming in snow? Do they put it in a plastic bag?

Don't you have to worry about moisture build up with the snow?

And when going from below freezing to an indoor temperature don't you also have to worry about moisture getting in your lens?

Are these things that one should not worry about? Can I shoot in the snow with a D90?
-
"Not so sure with Reverie, though." - Quoted from above

Personally I still think Reverie is good. It was shoot in three days by a first time film maker. If it wasn't for that, would so many photographers be actually embracing the movie function on it? Vince was already a much respected photographer. While this movie looks pretty it lacks any plot (which of course he was not going for). It shows off the camera's abilities though, and some really cool footage for sure. But I must question myself, some of the shots look pretty similar to Reverie.

(Just to make it clear, I'm not bashing this film, I like it. Just does not compare with Reverie; although the short film is a beautiful documentary of a night.) But then again these could just be American and European mindsets clashing on what makes a good movie. :) :) European cinema is more about the atmosphere.

squig
01-13-2009, 04:12 AM
The D90 should work great in the snow with it's inbuilt heating element

mattsand
01-13-2009, 04:34 AM
haha, yeah that's true. just leave it in live view all the time and it will never fog up.

/matt

BMFM FILMS
01-13-2009, 11:51 AM
The 5d REALLY needs 24p, the 30p gives such a strange look to it. Good video, but cake goes to Reverie if we are drawing comparisons, maybe cuz of the shock factor considering it was of the first videos shot with these D-SLR's (I'll NEVER forget that moment.)

John Caballero
01-13-2009, 12:01 PM
The 5d REALLY needs 24p, the 30p gives such a strange look to it.

There is absolutely no strange lok to it. The images are great.

Jim Klatt
01-13-2009, 12:10 PM
There is absolutely no strange lok to it. The images are great.

For filmmaking it is certainly strange. For documentary work it would be great, though.

mattsand
01-13-2009, 12:19 PM
For filmmaking it is certainly strange. For documentary work it would be great, though.
documentary work never meant to be shown in theaters or in europe then i guess. i still don't get why people are so hung up on the look when there are other more serious problems, if you like the look that's not a problem, right?

/matt

John Caballero
01-13-2009, 12:26 PM
I would like to know what "strange" means. That description makes absolutely no sense. It is plain weird. For flimaking strange for documentary OK? It is really puzzling to read assertions like that. Baseless whatsoever, so abstract at best. Even in the raw stuff from the 5D it resembles the CSI series look a lot, and those are done on film.

BTW: I would like to know if there is anything "strange" with this short and if there is what is exactly "strange": http://vimeo.com/2787054 (http://vimeo.com/2787054)

Jim Klatt
01-13-2009, 12:52 PM
If I watch a "film" that is shot in 30p, it reminds me too much of real life. Everything is too real. It constantly reminds me that it is being shot on a camera, a(which mean there is a person beind the camere, etc ,etc. ) and so I have a hard time losing myself to the world of the story. It's like this other part of my brain won't let me believe, you know what I mean?

With documentary in 30p, I can lose myself because the subject is the real world, so they align. Same with documentary in 60i. It definitely has something to do with the real world versus the magical world of film. I must admit that it is hard to express these innate or visceral reactions to 24p versus 30p.

John Caballero
01-13-2009, 01:07 PM
???????

Michael Anthony Horrigan
01-13-2009, 01:11 PM
If a movie is shot on a cell phone and the story is great.... I lose myself in that.
Can I tell the difference? Sure. Does it pull me out of a great story? No.

MAH

Jim Klatt
01-13-2009, 01:27 PM
???????

Sorry I couldn't express it more clearly, John. It's hard to express a reaction that seems to happen in the subconscious parts of my brain.

Michael Anthony Horrigan
01-13-2009, 01:56 PM
It's hard to express a reaction that seems to happen in the subconscious parts of my brain.LOL! I understand completely. :beer:

taubkin
01-13-2009, 02:06 PM
Funny, DVXUser began around endless discussions of 30 vs 24 fps. Maybe this is the sign of really big changes to our market...

I have to agree, that as bad as the D90 is, it's got some mojo. The 5D also. But lack of manual controls, weird ergonomics and jello are much worse to me than 24 or 30p.

But I'm loving my D90 more every day! Maybe I'll suck up much of my initial complaints...

squig
01-13-2009, 02:43 PM
I totally agree with Jim's comments. The unnaturalness of 24fps is what our brains consider natural when viewing film because that's how we're used to seeing film. If you're gonna shoot 30fps why bother with other film like qualities like shallow depth of field?

As for jello my steadytracker is working so well I can run with my D90 and there's no rolling shutter or jello. I'll post some footage soon, I'm still learning how to fly it smoothly.

Park Edwards
01-13-2009, 03:24 PM
i'm starting to wonder what people mean lack of manual controls...when in reality it seems that all the camcorders out there have control over just the shutter while the iso is constant. so all that's lacking is lack of shutter control....

and to just say this debate over 30p vs 24p is so relative. there's no convincing anyone anything, it's all user opinion. i myself just don't like the look of 30p and if all movies eventually go that route, then i'll have to adapt, but until then, my eyes like the look of 24p.

Rick Horton
01-13-2009, 03:40 PM
To me, the explanations of why 30 fps looks less filmic than 24 is pretty simple. 24 fps looks a lot different than 30 fps, and when you go to the movies you see 24 fps.
The idea that 30 fps is too much like real life doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't look like " the movies " but it still looks great. 60i is good too, but it looks even less like " the movies ".
To me 24 fps slowed down to 75 percent looks even better than " the movies ", and more surreal.
24 fps is so different than 30 fps. It just is. I think 30 fps is more than acceptable for theatrical release, it's just not the standard, and people tend to like the look of 24 fps more. Why?
It looks cool.

morgan_moore
01-13-2009, 03:51 PM
i'm starting to wonder what people mean lack of manual controls.

Its simple

With a film camera you choose , ISO, shutter speed, FPS and Aperture/Iris and focus position

that is manual control

DSLRS have manual control in producing still images - therefore it would seem, to the non camera developer, straightforward to allow those adjustments in movie mode

S

Park Edwards
01-13-2009, 06:06 PM
but who's comparing dslr to film camera's??? it's not like anyone was comparing manual controls on the dvx/hvx to a film camera, so why a dslr?

taubkin
01-13-2009, 07:30 PM
i'm starting to wonder what people mean lack of manual controls...when in reality it seems that all the camcorders out there have control over just the shutter while the iso is constant. so all that's lacking is lack of shutter control....

Video cameras have gain (ISO). Certainly the D90 has a native ISO that is changed only with electronic gain.

But even then, yeah, shutter control is pretty important on my book. And you said it all, a constant ISO, we can all dream, can't we?


Framerate control would be awesome, and manual control over aperture with electronic lenses would be awesome too.

What people mean lack of manual control, in the end, is: lack of manual control.

filmmaker's gang
01-13-2009, 09:55 PM
documentary work never meant to be shown in theaters or in europe then i guess. drama drama.. seems to me the tabloids..

why not? :huh:

filmmaker's gang
01-13-2009, 09:57 PM
documentary work never meant to be shown in theaters or in europe then i guess. i still don't get why people are so hung up on the look when there are other more serious problemsand a lot of workarounds too.. not to be 24p is not an issue.. maybe an advantage?.. :huh:

mattsand
01-13-2009, 11:13 PM
why not?
duh, because it's 30p.

/matt

mattsand
01-13-2009, 11:17 PM
not to be 24p is not an issue.. maybe an advantage?
so having to convert something is better than already having it? spending time and money yet ending up with something inferior? you simply gotta explain that one. of course there are workarounds, there always are, but workarounds are usually call workarounds because they help you fix or avoid a problem, not to use an advantage, right?

/matt

filmmaker's gang
01-13-2009, 11:40 PM
fishy :huh: humm?..

emanuel already posted some interesting hints actually..
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1518781&postcount=25

w/ no mention of overcranking you can flavor your pics

mattsand
01-14-2009, 05:16 AM
yeah i'm still talking about distribution. there are obviously other advantages with 30p if you want to do slow motion or get smoother motion on 60 hz displays, but that's exactly what i'm trying to not discuss because it's a matter of taste while the distribution format problem is a real one.

/matt

Emanuel
01-14-2009, 11:07 PM
fishy :huh: humm?..

emanuel already posted some interesting hints actually..
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1518781&postcount=25

w/ no mention of overcranking you can flavor your picsAnother valuable point in behalf of 30p shooting:

http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=203#p2377

mattsand
01-14-2009, 11:43 PM
Um, which point was "valuable" again? The one about pulldown? Nah, it was too filled with errors and misunderstandings. I'm more inclined to believe in the bitter engineer in that case. :-) the real answer probably has to do with what the frame rate set by the "live view department" had already decided for other reasons, take it or leave it. Live view is an older technology and the whole foundation for video recording. I'm sure it's always been 30p? /matt

artforme
01-15-2009, 03:44 AM
Your whole point is about distribution. And I think the guy from the linked post is from America; thus making 30fps a more idea choice for television distribution anyways. Right?

Where as shooting in 24p might be more ideal for PAL, film, and DVD.

mattsand
01-15-2009, 04:51 AM
Your whole point is about distribution
not this time. :-) the guy in the post thinks it's for technical reasons, and he jumps to very strange conclusions. i think the most obvious technical background to it all is the one i just suggested, who disagrees and why? the notion that it would be harder to make a 24p camera than a 30p one is just silly, all else being equal (which it might, according to my theory, not quite be).

/matt

Emanuel
01-15-2009, 05:55 AM
Um, which point was "valuable" again? The one about pulldown? You've got it. :-)

E.

Emanuel
01-15-2009, 05:58 AM
the notion that it would be harder to make a 24p camera than a 30p one is just silly, all else being equal (which it might, according to my theory, not quite be).

/mattI agree that there are more market reasons than techie ones. But this doesn't mean that you may not take advantage from 30p shooting anyway.

Rick Horton
01-15-2009, 06:04 AM
I think its very cool that we are now saying DSLR movie making. It seems so legit!

ESTEBEVERDE
01-15-2009, 02:00 PM
Its simple

With a film camera you choose , ISO, shutter speed, FPS and Aperture/Iris and focus position

that is manual control

DSLRS have manual control in producing still images - therefore it would seem, to the non camera developer, straightforward to allow those adjustments in movie mode

S


Of course.

Canon just doesn't want to loose market share in their camcorders.


As to Nikon!?!?!?! WTF Nikon!!!!!!

Step up and hit a home run!


Shhhesssshhh!