HDCAM or XDCAM HD.. which one?!!!

[aboammar]

Hi everyone .. :)

I was deciding to go with Sony CineAlta HDCAM F900R for my top quality TV advertising production, but some friends recommended to go with Sony XDCAM HD 700, because its price is FAR lower, and the picture quality is similar. Is that true?? If yes, why the huge difference in price? If not, is the quality difference noticeable?

I was recommended as well to use Wafian Direct-to-Disk HD video recorder with CineForm codecs to achieve better picture quality than recording straight to tape with F900R, or Disk with the 700. Is that true also?? and how?

Finally, can I use Letus adapter with either cameras to get better DOF?

I appreciate any feedback or help ... :thumbup:

[GuyB]

Same here. Another option would be to use the PWD-700 with a FlashXDR to use the 700's 2/3" full HD head but capture in either 100Mbps MPG2 or even uncompressed which I think the FlashXDR is, or will be able to do using all cards in a RAID configuration. That would compete even better to a F900 but I don't know anything near enough about the F900 to know what other differences lie beneith...

[adamr316]

I wish I could help you with more than speculation because I've never used either camera. I'm not sure how many of us here on this board could since really the class of the EX1/EX3 is much different (this is the XDCam EX board, after all, not XDCam HD).

I would say the biggest difference between the two (and that adds money to the cost of the camera) is the the 900R has a tape drive and the 700 is tapeless (optical, rewritable media).

Here's a good thread on the two: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdcam-hd-cinealta/137922-f900-pdw-700-please-help.html . There's probably many more than this...Google is your friend.

Like GuyB said, paired with a Convergent Design FlashXDR the 700 is essentially a tapeless 900R (in-camera the 700's datarate is not equal to the 900R's). I would personally get the 700 + FlashXDR and use the money I saved to get some awesome, high quality lenses.

[aboammar]

Thanks people for your feedback. DanHD .. work hard, and who knows what could happen in one day :)

GuyB .. very interesting idea you provided .. thanks .. I will consider your idea very seriously, but I need more details. I never heard of FlashXDR before, so, is it similar to Wafian Direct-to-Disk HD video recorders? If yes, which one offers better quality?

Adam, if GuyB idea will transfer XDCAM HD 700 into tapeless F900R with same or better quality, including higher color sampling rate for greenscreen, then that more could I want? I will difintly go with this setup if it works.

[GuyB]

The FlashXDR is a portable HD-SDI recorder that records to Compact Flash media. It has 4 CF slots.
Check it out here:
http://www.convergent-design.com/CD_Products_FlashXDR.htm

It is a very popular device for those looking for maximum quality by bypassing the high compression levels on many cameras.

[Barry_Green]

The F900R is a $70,000 camera head that records to tape in an 8-bit, 3:1:1 HDCAM format. To complete your system you'd need an HDCAM deck, which will set you back another $30,000. So you're looking at $100,000 for a complete system, and even then it's still 8-bit and not even 4:2:2. It can record 1080i at 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i and 60i. No variable frame rates, no slow motion, no 720p. Unless you really NEED tape, or your clients specifically demand an F900R, I can't see why you'd go this route when there are better products available for much less.

The PDW700 is a $30,000 camera head that records to disc in an 8-bit, 4:2:2 MPEG-2 format. But it only shoots 1080i at 50i or 60i, and 1080p at 25p and 30p. No variable frame rates. It does do 720p at 50p and 60p. An XDCAM-422 disc deck costs $22,000 so you're looking at about half the cost ($52,000) vs. $100,000 for the F900R.

There are other options you might want to look at as well. There's the Panasonic HPX3000, a $48,000 camera that does 1080 at 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i, and 60i, basically a better camera head than the F900R but at half the price and recording to a 10-bit 4:2:2 recording format (AVC-Intra). You don't need a deck for this, just maybe a card reader ($2,000) and a couple of cards ($1800) so total system price would be around $52,000. Half the cost of the F900R, about the same cost as the PDW700 system.

Or, there's the VariCam 2700, which costs $40,000 for the camera head. It does 1080 at 24p/25p/30p/50i/60i, plus it does 720p at any frame rate from 1p to 60p. So it does slow motion and fast motion, which none of the above models do. It uses the same cards and reader as the HPX3000. But its 1080i/1080p footage won't be quite as sharp and detailed as the other cameras on this list.

Also, there's the Red One. A complete system can be built for around $30,000 and it'll produce images that rival or exceed any of the cameras on this list. If your primary purpose is digital cinema style footage acquisition, then it might be appropriate for you to consider. If you want to do live field production and news and sports coverage, then any of the others would be a much better choice, but for simulating the film look the Red One would be certainly a strong contender for your dollar.

[ez_dbc]

What about the Viper?

[Armstrongfilms]

you cannot purchase a working viper, only rent, and why would u want one anyway? chris nolan dropped it back off at the rental house after 24hrs of shooting because of the endless cables needed to record the full rez of the camera to hard drive arrays. the viper has been far surpassed in compact high end imaging. tgv has been focusing on DI/post workflows as its future, not image acquisition. the viper ads in AC every month have all but disappeared in the last 18 months. Even Arri has cut the D-21 team in half in the last year, and has begun to re-think their digital imaging ideas as well, although arri has such a large market share in high end filmmaking on every level from light bulbs to laser 4k scanners, so its not as big of a deal for them.

[Barry_Green]

If you want to buy a viper, get a Sony F35. That's basically a viper for sale. However, it's somewhere north of $250,000 so it might not be practical in comparison to these other products.

[adamr316]

Thanks for that reminder Barry...my vote goes for the Panasonic HPX3000. I forgot that the Sony 700 doesn't do variable frame rates like the EX series. And the 10-bit AVCIntra is a nice touch.

[aboammar]

The FlashXDR is a portable HD-SDI recorder that records to Compact Flash media. It has 4 CF slots.
Check it out here:
http://www.convergent-design.com/CD_Products_FlashXDR.htm

It is a very popular device for those looking for maximum quality by bypassing the high compression levels on many cameras.


Thanks for the link GuyB ... I did some search, and it seem Wafain products will produce a much better image quality than Flash XDR, so I am going with Wafian HR-F1 .. here is its link:
http://www.wafian.com/HR-F1.htm

Thanks for your help ..

[aboammar]

The F900R is a $70,000 camera head that records to tape in an 8-bit, 3:1:1 HDCAM format. To complete your system you'd need an HDCAM deck, which will set you back another $30,000. So you're looking at $100,000 for a complete system, and even then it's still 8-bit and not even 4:2:2. It can record 1080i at 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i and 60i. No variable frame rates, no slow motion, no 720p. Unless you really NEED tape, or your clients specifically demand an F900R, I can't see why you'd go this route when there are better products available for much less.

The PDW700 is a $30,000 camera head that records to disc in an 8-bit, 4:2:2 MPEG-2 format. But it only shoots 1080i at 50i or 60i, and 1080p at 25p and 30p. No variable frame rates. It does do 720p at 50p and 60p. An XDCAM-422 disc deck costs $22,000 so you're looking at about half the cost ($52,000) vs. $100,000 for the F900R.

There are other options you might want to look at as well. There's the Panasonic HPX3000, a $48,000 camera that does 1080 at 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i, and 60i, basically a better camera head than the F900R but at half the price and recording to a 10-bit 4:2:2 recording format (AVC-Intra). You don't need a deck for this, just maybe a card reader ($2,000) and a couple of cards ($1800) so total system price would be around $52,000. Half the cost of the F900R, about the same cost as the PDW700 system.

Or, there's the VariCam 2700, which costs $40,000 for the camera head. It does 1080 at 24p/25p/30p/50i/60i, plus it does 720p at any frame rate from 1p to 60p. So it does slow motion and fast motion, which none of the above models do. It uses the same cards and reader as the HPX3000. But its 1080i/1080p footage won't be quite as sharp and detailed as the other cameras on this list.

Also, there's the Red One. A complete system can be built for around $30,000 and it'll produce images that rival or exceed any of the cameras on this list. If your primary purpose is digital cinema style footage acquisition, then it might be appropriate for you to consider. If you want to do live field production and news and sports coverage, then any of the others would be a much better choice, but for simulating the film look the Red One would be certainly a strong contender for your dollar.

Thank you Barry for the details .. I think I will skip the F900R and might go with XDCAM HD ... but I need in-camera full HD slo-mo (over crank, and under-crank). Which Sony cameras will do this? I like Sony brand, so most often I will go with a Sony camera, however,I might consider Red One, but I still do not have full information about it, and its work-flow. I appreciate if you can provide more details about it.

[aboammar]

Just wondering ... why the EX1, and EX3 carry the legendary CineAlta 24P brand, and not the XDCAM HD 700??:huh:

[Buck Forester]

The EX1/EX3 will do 'most' everything you'd ever want at a fraction of the cost. The quality of the image is up there with models you mentioned, they do under/overcranking like nobody's business, tapeless and disc-less so there's no insanely expensive decks you need, very mobile, etc. Depending on the type of stuff you'll be shooting, the only limitation would be perhaps the CMOS response to bright flashes and whip-pan skewing. But if you're shooting a commercial with carefully planned shots knowing the pros and cons of your camera (and that includes any camera), it shouldn't be a huge issue. Rent an EX1/EX3 and shoot all kinds of various footage and watch it on a decent 55" plasma screen... just make sure you tape your socks around your ankles first because the footage will certainly blow them away. That goes for your underwear too.

[aboammar]

Hi Buck .. thanks for your input. If fact, I just got my EX3 yesterday, and I am playing with it as I write this. So far, I am loving it, and I think I can do alot with it :)

I am planing to shot "everyday" TV commercial with it, however, for top-quality commercials, I most often will need a full-size HD camera because I believe top-quality comes with bigger cameras, with bigger image sensors, correct me if I am wrong.

Beside that, the EX3 slo-mo function is not at full HD, only at 720P ...

[EC Junior]

Just wondering ... why the EX1, and EX3 carry the legendary CineAlta 24P brand, and not the XDCAM HD 700??:huh:

I think the the XDCAM HD422 was originally made for Broadcast TV, it was used in the Beijing Olympics. The 24P option will be available this summer/fall. There's a special promotion planned to be offered by Sony:

The idea is:
with a purchase of a PDW700 camera this fiscal (April 2007 through March 2009),end user has the option to purchase the 24p software option (CBKZ-FC02) and receive a $1500 mail in end user rebate. The option software must be purchased by September 30, 2009 to receive this rebate.

The problem is: The PDW-700s are so backordered! We had to propose and install PMW-EX3s to our customer's studios and setups over the 700s because of delivery times.

[aboammar]

It still not clear to me: why the 700 dose not have slo-mo, when the smaller, lower price EX3 have it (at 720 though)?

[Buck Forester]

Ahhh... I didn't realize you already had an EX3! Right arm.

[EC Junior]

It still not clear to me: why the 700 dose not have slo-mo, when the smaller, lower price EX3 have it (at 720 though)?


Maybe its a marketing thing again. Conflicts with their other model sales. The new HDCAM HDW-650F doesn't do 30P.

[aboammar]

Maybe ..

I think I will have to wait for Sony to release an update for the 700 with slo-mo option , or maybe introduce a new model with such feature. Slo-mo is very important for my business .... :undecided

[GuyB]

Thanks for the link GuyB ... I did some search, and it seem Wafain products will produce a much better image quality than Flash XDR, so I am going with Wafian HR-F1 .. here is its link:
http://www.wafian.com/HR-F1.htm

Thanks for your help ..

I doubt it is going to be better quality, the FlashXDR allows for 100Mbps MPG2 1920x1080 4:2:2 which is pretty much the same quality as uncompressed, you aren't going to find a codec offering anything better, only as good. The only difference is the 10 vs 8 bit which certainly can be important for some. However an update for the XDR for uncompressed 10bit 4:2:2 is coming so that difference will disappear.

Then look at the ergonomics of it, the FlashXDR may not be a tiny little box but is is small enough to be portable and even mount off some cameras, and be battery powered. That HR-F1 is 29lbs and not far off a foot in all directions.

They are totally different beasts ergonomically for similar results, if you need to be able to move much with your camera, to me the F1 is out.

Oh, and then note the price. FlashXDR about US$5K, F1 = US$17K

[aboammar]

I learned that CineForm HD codec produce the best image quality ... better than any other codec, especially when you want to use greenscreen.

I dont know .. but, If the quality of Flash XDR, and Wafian HR-F1 are the same, then why the huge price difference?!!

[GuyB]

Well when the 10bit uncompressed option for the FlashXDR comes out it will be better than the F1 as the F1 is just a compressed version of this same image which can never be better quality, only smaller file size.

The F1 is a much bigger box with internal drive and LCD, but to me, given the price of the XDR it is way overpriced but thats just my take on it.

[aboammar]

Thanks GuyB ... I still not convinced 100%

I do not need uncompressed video as it is not easy to edit it. It is not manageable in complex project. Also, the bitrate in CineForm is much higher than that of FlashXDR.

Since Wafain products dose not record in MPEG (GOP) like Flash XDR, I think the motion of the video will be smoother .. I think.

Here is Wafain respond when I asked them:

The comparison against Flash XDR is not really a useful one because they are different products for different purposes. While I have not tested one, the Flash XDR seems like a good tool for field acquisition where quality is not the top priority, but mobility is. The Flash XDR records into MPEG format, while we record onto CineForm, AVI, and MOV (higher quality). The Flash XDR uses DCT compression, we use wavelet. The Flash XDR can record minutes, Wafian systems can record hours, etc.

CineForm technology is ideal for production and post-production because it is based on wavelet compression, which derives higher quality images than that of tape and other recorders that use DCT compression.

Wafian systems use variable bitrate recording, this means that quality is always maximized, but file size remains manageable.

Our recorders offer a unique setting specific for green screen recording. In this mode, the recorders keep more bits (information) around the edges of your subject, so that your keying is more accurate.

Many of our clients have used Sony cameras for production, and CineForm files are currently supported by Premiere Pro, After Effects, Final Cut Pro, Vegas and others. You can also easily export your files to DPX format for editing with Avid and in the near future, Avid will likely support CineForm files directly (without a conversion).

[kenn michael]

I know that you're set on Sony products, but Cineform also has a very good Red workflow. They have software that will convert your Red footage directly to Cineform files in one step, and then it's a Cineform workflow from there on out.

[GuyB]

It would seem that Wafain just told you what I said but you accepted it from them but not me, go figure...

They are very different beasts, one is portable and one is not, but so condem the XDR because it uses DCT Compression is just marketing.

Don't get confused about the bit rate differences as Cineform needs much more bit rate to achieve the same quality than MPG2 does, it is intraframe and so it takes no advantage of the comparison between frames to reduce bandwidth, it is in effect a very inefficient compression scheme compared to Interframe codecs. On the flip side it takes less processing power to encoded and decode as the codec is simpler to process.

Don't forget you can take the uncompressed or 100Mbps MPG2 long GOP and convert it to Cineform for editing, your not stuck in one codec and if cineform is as good as they claim there should be no quality loss.

I suggest you get hold of some of the samples from Convergent Design and judge for yourself what you think, or buy it from someone who agrees on a fair period to test and refurn for refund if you are not satisfied.

In summary, the F1 won't come near to having >3 times value as the Flash XDR offers but by all means spend $17K on the F1, its not like I have shared in Convergent Design. I know were I'd spend my money though.

[aboammar]

Hi GuyB .. please do not get me wrong .. I am just searching for the best picture quality can get .. and to me, I find it very hard to believe that a device costing 3 times less could provide the same quality??!! Something must be missing here!!

[aboammar]

I know that you're set on Sony products, but Cineform also has a very good Red workflow. They have software that will convert your Red footage directly to Cineform files in one step, and then it's a Cineform workflow from there on out.

I don't want any conversion in the work flow ... time consuming. Can RED footage be used directly with any NLE?

[xmephestox]

FCP just came out with a plugin for native red footage, premiere cs4 with update has it, avid does not but has a solid workflow for it. or so they claim. i don't think vegas does yet...

[Lor]

I'm not a camera expert but the Wafian is about $30,000 alone. Now if a complete Red system is around $30,000 as Barry said, besides the Red work flow, I would definitely go with the Red camera and just buy a couple of those solid state hard drive. Plus, the quality is top of the line or better.

[aboammar]

The Wafain I am considering is HR-F1, and its price is $17,000.

Are you saying that the quality of the RED camera is already better than HDCAM or XDCAM HD with Wafain DDR? I am confused!!

[xmephestox]

red is a touchy issue and there are a million threads about it. my advice is, ask your DP what camera he thinks he can give you the best image possible on out of all those choices and just go with that. if you don't have someone that KNOWS how to use Red, then ur footage will most likely not come out very good. ur gonna feel more of the power and quality in more capable hands rather then just thinking about what camera is better then what. each one suites to different needs.

[Nik Manning]

What everyone is trying to say is that the mpeg2 codec is smarter than other codecs like cineform, red code, dvcprohd, etc.
Sony Ex1 at 35Mb is as smart as DVCPROHD at 100Mb. Because of the added complexity it is harder to edit. Takes longer to decode. mpeg 4 is even smarter than mpeg2 that is why it is harder to edit.
This is a simple break down of the codecs they are all pretty smart but this should explain it to you.

[aboammar]

I like to play is safe, so, I think I am going with Sony camcorder, and Wafain DDR .. the question is now is which camera model should I go with?

[GuyB]

PDW-700 & a really good lens.

[Nik Manning]

How about a sony and an iohd and use prores? Why not use an EX3 and shoot to disk/hardrive. That may give you arguably better image than PDW-700 to tape. Clients will still respect the EX3 as it is a Sony XDcam and the quality will be amazing!
I believe you should just rent a f900 or so when you need it. Those cameras are pretty old and will be replaced soon. That is why the EX3 can compete with them at a fraction of the price. Now if you just want to show off for clients then go ahead and buy a big ass camera, but if quality is what you want get the EX3 and a super lense.

[EC Junior]

How about a sony and an iohd and use prores? Why not use an EX3 and shoot to disk/hardrive. That may give you arguably better image than PDW-700 to tape. Clients will still respect the EX3 as it is a Sony XDcam and the quality will be amazing!
I believe you should just rent a f900 or so when you need it. Those cameras are pretty old and will be replaced soon. That is why the EX3 can compete with them at a fraction of the price. Now if you just want to show off for clients then go ahead and buy a big ass camera, but if quality is what you want get the EX3 and a super lense.

Don't forget, you will need a Macbook pro / mac pro to use an AJA IOHD. The deliverable will be a hard drive or Blu-Ray Data Disc.

With the PDW-700, you have a deliverable as a 50GB optical disc.

With the PDW-700 record both to XDCAM HD422 to optical disc and ioHD ProRes422 to MacPro/Macbook Pro to Hard Drive.

[aboammar]

Nik .. Since I already got an EX3, your idea is worth trying. I will be getting Wafain, and Letus35 Ultimate to be used with my EX3, and I will see the results.

By the way, do I have to use a new lens with Letus35 Ultimate, or I can use the factory EX3 lens? I am still not 100% clear on the setup and configuration :huh:

EC .. thanks, but I am a Windows person, not Mac.

[Nik Manning]

I can understand getting the wafian as a long term solution as it will always give hd cam sr results no matter what new camera comes out. If it works in your workflow then do it.

[spectrumfilms]

Yes, you will actually have to pick up additional lens(es.) The Letus Ultimate attaches to the end of the EX3 stock lens, then another lens is attached to the end of Letus. I know there was talk of a relay lens to replace the stock lens on the EX3, decreasing the amount of glass in the setup, but am not sure anyhting has been released yet. There are many options for lenses and mounts for the Letus...you can use manual focus nikon primes or zooms as well as canons and others. You can find used Nikons pretty cheap on Ebay.
Zeiss has a nikon mount lens set (ZF) which has been getting good reviews, but you will be looking at $3500-$5500 depending on what you get. I would suggest at least 3 primes. 25-50-85 for example.
Or if you really want to lay down some cash (and can find them) you can purchase purchase PL mount cine lenses. These can easily set you back over 20k these days. You may want to "cinevise" the still lenses by adding focus rings and removing the click stops on the iris, amongst other things.
I just purchased a Letus Elite set up. I already own a set of Zeiss cine lenses so my descision was pretty easy. You will also need to purchase a rod and baseplate support system, follow focus and while you wouldn't have to you would probably want to pick up a matte box. Maybe you already have some of this stuff.
Personally I'm not sure I would buy the Ultimate...I purchased the Elite and am very happy with it. I already had lenses, matte box and follow focus and I spent close to 4k for my Letus set up.
If you have to buy all of the lenses, accessories and the Ultimate I'm guessing you could easily top the 10k mark. I just couldn't justify the additional $2700 or so for the Ultimate. I'm not saying it's not worth it for some people...it just wasnt for me. I am very happy with the results I am getting out of the Elite. I would recommend spending the extra $600 for the back focus adjustment capabilities of the Elite over the Extreme. I would also purchase the optimization acromat. Good luck my friend. Jeff
Nik .. Since I already got an EX3, your idea is worth trying. I will be getting Wafain, and Letus35 Ultimate to be used with my EX3, and I will see the results.

By the way, do I have to use a new lens with Letus35 Ultimate, or I can use the factory EX3 lens? I am still not 100% clear on the setup and configuration :huh:

EC .. thanks, but I am a Windows person, not Mac.[/QUOTE]

[aboammar]

Thanks Nik ..

[aboammar]

Yes, you will actually have to pick up additional lens(es.) The Letus Ultimate attaches to the end of the EX3 stock lens, then another lens is attached to the end of Letus. I know there was talk of a relay lens to replace the stock lens on the EX3, decreasing the amount of glass in the setup, but am not sure anyhting has been released yet. There are many options for lenses and mounts for the Letus...you can use manual focus nikon primes or zooms as well as canons and others. You can find used Nikons pretty cheap on Ebay.
Zeiss has a nikon mount lens set (ZF) which has been getting good reviews, but you will be looking at $3500-$5500 depending on what you get. I would suggest at least 3 primes. 25-50-85 for example.
Or if you really want to lay down some cash (and can find them) you can purchase purchase PL mount cine lenses. These can easily set you back over 20k these days. You may want to "cinevise" the still lenses by adding focus rings and removing the click stops on the iris, amongst other things.
I just purchased a Letus Elite set up. I already own a set of Zeiss cine lenses so my descision was pretty easy. You will also need to purchase a rod and baseplate support system, follow focus and while you wouldn't have to you would probably want to pick up a matte box. Maybe you already have some of this stuff.
Personally I'm not sure I would buy the Ultimate...I purchased the Elite and am very happy with it. I already had lenses, matte box and follow focus and I spent close to 4k for my Letus set up.
If you have to buy all of the lenses, accessories and the Ultimate I'm guessing you could easily top the 10k mark. I just couldn't justify the additional $2700 or so for the Ultimate. I'm not saying it's not worth it for some people...it just wasnt for me. I am very happy with the results I am getting out of the Elite. I would recommend spending the extra $600 for the back focus adjustment capabilities of the Elite over the Extreme. I would also purchase the optimization acromat. Good luck my friend. Jeff
Nik .. Since I already got an EX3, your idea is worth trying. I will be getting Wafain, and Letus35 Ultimate to be used with my EX3, and I will see the results.

By the way, do I have to use a new lens with Letus35 Ultimate, or I can use the factory EX3 lens? I am still not 100% clear on the setup and configuration :huh:

EC .. thanks, but I am a Windows person, not Mac.[/quote]


Jeff .. thanks man for your detailed feedback, and for your time. :)

I learned that the Letus Ultimate attaches to the end of the EX3 stock lens, but did not know that another lens MUST be attached to the end of Letus, because I was thinking that the Letus35 Ultimate is adapter with lens built in!!

I like Fujinon brand, what model will work for my needs?

I already ordered the Letus35 Ultimate Bundle, which includes:
1- Sony PMW-EX1/EX3 Specialized 77mm ring
2- PL Mount
3- Rods V2 Complete System (30cm + 15cm) Stainless Steel Rods.

Is there anything else I should have from Letus?

I am very novice when it comes to lenses, and I really did not understand most of your comments :embarasse. For example, what do you mean by "I would suggest at least 3 primes. 25-50-85 for example"?? Would you explain in more details? :shocked:

I am no expert, so I would like to stay in extreme safe side, and I really want very very easy, and straight-forward configuration for my EX3, Letus35 Ultimate, and a new Fujinon lens. I appreciate you help.

[jujufactory]

No contest:

XDCAM HD is the clear winner. You can't beat its price/quality ratio. Only the most trained eye will se the difference between that and HD CAM plus it's easy to handle, easy to edit and you don't have to worry about outrageously expensive and heavy tape stock. If you want my opinion XD CAM HD made all tape formats OBSOLETE!

[aboammar]

No contest:

XDCAM HD is the clear winner. You can't beat its price/quality ratio. Only the most trained eye will se the difference between that and HD CAM plus it's easy to handle, easy to edit and you don't have to worry about outrageously expensive and heavy tape stock. If you want my opinion XD CAM HD made all tape formats OBSOLETE!

You have got a very valid point, and I am starting to lean more towards XDCAM HD, especially the 700 model. Any idea if the 700 do slow/quick motion in full HD?

[aboammar]

By the way .. if I understand correctly, 2 lenses will be attached to the EX3 with Letus35 in between them. So, there will be separate lens control for each, such as zoom, focus, etc. Which one should I use, the EX3 stock lens, or the one attached after the Letus?!!! I am 100% confused!!!!

[morgan_moore]

The controls on the stock lense are focussed and zoomed to configure the Letus and then left alone - even taped in position

Any focus or zoom changes are done on the lens attached to the letus

[Barry_Green]

There must be a lens between the camera and the adapter. That can be a dedicated relay lens, or it can be the stock lens.

Then there's the adapter, which is not a lens. So there has to be a lens on the front of it.

The lens in front focuses the image onto the adapter's ground glass. The lens on the camera photographs the ground glass image.

[jujufactory]

Will the PDW 700 do this or this?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

The PDW 700 is the top of the line XD CAM HD camera running at 50MB/S, FULL HD, All Frame Rates, 2/3 inch, 4 channel digital Audio, which can handle anything its predecessors did including slow motion and various things the 900 can't even do. There is nothing this thing can't do and Forget HD CAM! HD CAM is totally obsolete. You will NEVER see the difference between the image of a 50MB/S XD CAM HD and HDCAM except the outrageous 144MB/S HDCAM bitrate which has to be downconverted anyways during editing and which adds nothing except extra expenses, weight, hassle, time waste etc. Mark my words: The PDW 700 is the only camera you will ever need and I don't care what you plan on shooting.

The reason I know this is because SONY put on a show here in Paris where they projected all their formats on a giant screen. XD CAM HD outperformed anything I have ever see in terms of functionality, ease of use and quality for such a reasonable bitrate. The difference between HDV and XD CAM HD is visible. The difference between 35MB/S XD CAM HD and HD CAM is really really subdle and most of it is due to lenses. 50MB/S XH CAM HD was created to eliminate that slight difference. The visible difference between 50MB/S HDCAM and XD CAM HD is nonexistant except on paper. In fact I can't think of a single reason why one would still use HD CAM 4:4:4 144MB/S bla bla for something nobody will notice. From my point of view XD CAM is the final solution to the camera problem and the PDW 700 is the top of the line XD CAM HD camera. The F900 is a vintage camera and with its MattBox and extended viewfinder it is great for getting girls excited. But when it comes to getting the job done without bullshi*, the 700 is the best choice. And you may quote me on that. NOBODY WILL SEE THE DIFFERENCE!!!! NOBODY (Except your bank when they see what money you wasted on HD CAM and the editor who will pull his hair out when he realizes you still use tape)!!!

[spectrumfilms]

There is no lens in the Letus, it is merely an adapter to use between the camera and whatever lens you decide to use with it. As far as I know the only lens mounts available on the Letus are Canon FD,EF/Eos, Nikon A1 and PL mount. My gut feeling is a Fuji lens will not work with the adapter. What mount does the Fuji lens have, is it 1/2 inch lens? If it is a 1/2" lens you may be able to use it directly on the EX3, but you would be bypassing the Letus adapter at that point.
I'm not sure but don't think the Fuji will have a PL mount, which is the mount you ordered with the Letus.
The reason you would want 3 different prime lenses is for more options for focal length, the 25 being a wider angle lens, the 50 a "normal" lens, and the 85 would be your longer telephoto lens. Unfortunately you may need to rethink your Fuji lens purchase. Good luck
Jeff


Jeff .. thanks man for your detailed feedback, and for your time. :)

I learned that the Letus Ultimate attaches to the end of the EX3 stock lens, but did not know that another lens MUST be attached to the end of Letus, because I was thinking that the Letus35 Ultimate is adapter with lens built in!!

I like Fujinon brand, what model will work for my needs?

I already ordered the Letus35 Ultimate Bundle, which includes:
1- Sony PMW-EX1/EX3 Specialized 77mm ring
2- PL Mount
3- Rods V2 Complete System (30cm + 15cm) Stainless Steel Rods.

Is there anything else I should have from Letus?

I am very novice when it comes to lenses, and I really did not understand most of your comments :embarasse. For example, what do you mean by "I would suggest at least 3 primes. 25-50-85 for example"?? Would you explain in more details? :shocked:

I am no expert, so I would like to stay in extreme safe side, and I really want very very easy, and straight-forward configuration for my EX3, Letus35 Ultimate, and a new Fujinon lens. I appreciate you help.[/QUOTE]

[spectrumfilms]

Check out this video, it may shed some light on what you are trying to do here.
Jeff

http://exposureroom.com/members/philipbloom.aspx/assets/7e1a0a3099b14d758a2f50b2e4fa876b/



By the way .. if I understand correctly, 2 lenses will be attached to the EX3 with Letus35 in between them. So, there will be separate lens control for each, such as zoom, focus, etc. Which one should I use, the EX3 stock lens, or the one attached after the Letus?!!! I am 100% confused!!!!

[spectrumfilms]

Also this one, nice tutorial on the EX3.

http://exposureroom.com/members/philipbloom.aspx/assets/84fb075bd0e74f91a13566fa641d864f/

[aboammar]

Morgan, and Bary .. thank you for your feedback.

JuJuFactory .. thanks for your detailed reply. I know that the 700 is one of the best camera now, but I wanted to check if it dose slow and quick motion with full HD? I could not find such information in Sony website!!! Can you provide a link about that (Slow/Quick)? Thanks ..

[aboammar]

There is no lens in the Letus, it is merely an adapter to use between the camera and whatever lens you decide to use with it. As far as I know the only lens mounts available on the Letus are Canon FD,EF/Eos, Nikon A1 and PL mount. My gut feeling is a Fuji lens will not work with the adapter. What mount does the Fuji lens have, is it 1/2 inch lens? If it is a 1/2" lens you may be able to use it directly on the EX3, but you would be bypassing the Letus adapter at that point.
I'm not sure but don't think the Fuji will have a PL mount, which is the mount you ordered with the Letus.
The reason you would want 3 different prime lenses is for more options for focal length, the 25 being a wider angle lens, the 50 a "normal" lens, and the 85 would be your longer telephoto lens. Unfortunately you may need to rethink your Fuji lens purchase. Good luck
Jeff
[/quote]


Man .. you have been so helpful .. thank you very much for your help and for the links :thumbup:

I contacted Letus about the same subject, and this was his reply:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
Thank you for contacting us and for your previous order. If you are needing lenses, I would highly recommend looking at getting the Nikon mount for your adapter and consider the Zeiss ZF lenses that we offer. We have a complete set of Zeiss lenses available here: http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/zeiss-pro-bundle.html (mhtml:{5B7709C0-089E-4B36-9214-BC455E05A78F}mid://00000018/!x-usc:http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/zeiss-pro-bundle.html) These lenses will fit on the Nikon mount we offer for the Letus adapters: http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/letus-nikon-ai-mount.html (mhtml:{5B7709C0-089E-4B36-9214-BC455E05A78F}mid://00000018/!x-usc:http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/letus-nikon-ai-mount.html)

That would be the best option if you want extremely high quality, new lenses. If you are on a tighter budget, you can simply purchase the Nikon AI mount and look for used Nikon lenses. Either option would provide great results.

If you have any other questions, please let us know.

Thank you,
Aaron
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you think: should I go with their Carl Zeiss - Prime Lens Pro Bundle which costs $3,442, and $99 for Letus Nikon AI Mount? :huh:

[spectrumfilms]

I would agree with Aaron, the Zeiss ZF lenses are probably your best bet. Have these lenses been cinevized?? I would recomend getting focus gear rings installed and purchasing a follow focus unit. It makes life a lot easier.
Jeff

[aboammar]

I would agree with Aaron, the Zeiss ZF lenses are probably your best bet. Have these lenses been cinevized?? I would recomend getting focus gear rings installed and purchasing a follow focus unit. It makes life a lot easier.
Jeff

Thanks, then I am going with the Zeiss ZF lenses ...

Cinevized!! What dose that mean?!
Could you provide a links for focus gear rings, and follow focus unit that will work with my setup?

[jujufactory]

Call up the Sony people and ask. I would be very very surprised if it did not do what the lower end models do and they do slow motion and fast motion. Call them up and find out. As for the rest, you have my opinion. This is the best non-tape format camera out there. You can't go wrong.

Watch the Philip Bloom review on the 700. It says it all.

http://philipbloom.co.uk/reviews/reviews-sponsored-by-the-mitcorp/

[aboammar]

But how did you get your information in the first place when you said the 700 has slow motion?!!

If the official Sony website dose not mention that the 700 has that feature, then most often it dose not have it!!

Thanks for the link ..

[spectrumfilms]

http://www.rplens.com/


Thanks, then I am going with the Zeiss ZF lenses ...

Cinevized!! What dose that mean?!
Could you provide a links for focus gear rings, and follow focus unit that will work with my setup?[/QUOTE]

[aboammar]

http://www.rplens.com/


Thanks, then I am going with the Zeiss ZF lenses ...

Cinevized!! What dose that mean?!
Could you provide a links for focus gear rings, and follow focus unit that will work with my setup?[/quote]

I will check the link latter .. thanks