HVX200+ brevis35mm VS Red Scarlet 2/3 cinema.

[Marco.L]

SO , new REd Scarlet are arriving soon...

there is a the Scarlet 2/3 fixed lens complete kit for us$3750 and the cinema version is for 2500k the brain only ,


so , here is my doubt....

i spend 5500k in my hvx +fs100 1800k , and i was wondering to spend more 1800k in the brevis35mm..


its almost a 10k set up...


and i'm think , a complete kit of the 2/3 Scarlet cinema won't reach 10k.

what to do...??

wait little bit and sell my hvx to buy a scarlet..or just go for the brevis35...??

[DM_rider]

Just go with a Brevis setup. People talk about the scarlet like it's ready to be purchased now... It's not, and probably wont be for a while. Buy what's available now and use it! if everyone waited for the next hot item to come out, no one would make movies, it's impossible to keep up.

That being said, don't hold off on purcahsing gear because you're afraid it wont be relevant in a years time. You have a great camera already, and it will surely still be great a year from now.

[Marco.L]

yeas , i agree with you , but is so close...hehehe


but something that i realized, is that are complete different workflows and applications.
I still use my hvx a lot for weddings, social events , fashion tv , tourism , and other workflows that does not suport a scarlet...i think..


thanks for reply friend.

[CB_Radio]

SO , new REd Scarlet are arriving soon...

I thought it was going to be 9months or more until the Scarlet might come out.

I wouldn't wait for the Scarlet. Do what you need to do now and when the Scarlet finally comes out then you can decide what to do. By then there will be more cameras to wait for and drool over :)

[Marco.L]

yeah , i'm going to the brevis... in the end of the month will be in my hands..

and i need it now...

i'm graduated in TV school here in Sao Paulo - Brazil , and i'll start film school in february , and we are going to have film projects...and betwen that lot of digital....and i want to do my digitals as good as i can...

and increase my habilities handling dof control for different situations , .
i know is not the same thing , but closer tham a naked hvx...
and whem i put my hands at the arri...do my best...



thanks all..

[Charles Lowthian]

If you're a fan of bokeh, wouldn't the Brevis maintain more of it as the image is projected onto a focussing screen much larger than 2/3"?

[goober542]

There are a couple of factors to consider.

The point of the camera not being available is the number one issue. Use the tools you have at hand till new ones are available. Go rent new equipment, lenses, lights, etc... Find out what you like what makes production easier or of greater value.

The different setups will deliver different images plain and simple. The 2/3 inch sensor of the scarlet is going to give you a look much more akin to 16mm film, it will have deeper focus than 35 but no where near as deap as 1/3 inch chips. The image will be much sharper than any adapter image do to having direct mount lense, and will again have a closer look to 16mm film than you could get with an adapter.

The 35 adapter will give you the 35mm depth of field, but often you are using still lenses and not Cine lenses, which in theory will give you a more shallow depth of field, causeing focus pulling to be slightly more difficult. You are also loosing alot more light, as well as producing a softer image than what would come out of actual 35mm film.

Research the look of 16mm film, 2/3 inch sensors, and 35mm film. Compare them find out what you like best. If 16 works for you Scarlet may be the best bet and rent until you can purchase. If you want the 35 save up for the s35 scarlet, or if you can deal with the softer image go with an adapter

I hope my long winded post has helped.

(r)yan

[Marco.L]

i did found this interesting threat at REDusers.com

scarlet 2/3 vs s35 depth of field
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23297

and about David Mullen words...

he says...:
" Practically speaking, at the same f-stop compared to S35, 2/3" is the equivalent depth of field of stopping down by 2.5 stops -- in other words, if you shoot at f/2.0 on a 2/3" camera, it's the same depth of field as shooting at a f/4.0-f/5.6 split in S35, assuming you match field of view and distance.

Super-16/16mm has the same issue -- doesn't something shot in 16mm look "filmic"? How about a 35mm movie with a deep-focus look, like "Citizen Kane"?

Plenty of 35mm photography is shot in the middle f-stop range, especially outdoors.

It's really only in night photography where the extra depth of field of 2/3" sensors is a bit uncharacteristic of 35mm night photography, which tends to be super shallow-focus.

Now if you like the look of 35mm shot at an f/2.8-f/4 split, it's a bit harder to do that on a 2/3" camera since you'd need an f/1.4 lens -- not impossible for a single-sensor camera that can use cine lenses, but the fastest 3-CCD HD lenses made tend to be f/1.6 (like a Zeiss Digi-Prime), which is probably close enough.

Fincher's "Zodiak" and the upcoming "Benjamin Button" were shot on the Viper, which has 2/3" sensors -- they seem fairly "filmic" to me..."

[Dennis Wood]

S35 and S16 still don't have the shallow DOF of a full format SLR lens on our adapter. The good news about the Brevis MP.1 flip system is that even if you purchase it now for use on your existing camera, you can just purchase our 2/3" multi-format relay lens for a modular add-on to the Scarlett 2/3" brain. This would give you the ablity to use PL mount cinema lenses, or full format SLR lenses, with no crop factor...and the resolution of the Scarlet 2/3" setup. Our Proteus rail systems are designed for pretty much any form factor conceivable...so no updates would be required there either. In other words, Brevis MP.2 (and soon MP.2) flip + Cinevate Relay lens (about $2500) + Scarlet 2/3" brain = Pretty Amazing Setup for $6700. We've always believed in maximum leverage to our existing customers which is why the relay lens module is all you'd have to add to any REV2, MP.1 or MP.2 Brevis system for use on the Scarlet.

[Charles Lowthian]

... Brevis MP.2 (and soon MP.2) flip + Cinevate Relay lens (about $2500) + Scarlet 2/3" brain = Pretty Amazing Setup for $6700.

SOLD! :thumbsup:

[pmark23]

I've gone the HVX/Brevis route, and will be getting the both the 2/3 Scarlet and the S35 Scarlet when they're available (2/3 is for rental to doc crews).

Almost everything I have for HVX/Brevis (mattebox and filters, rails, Nikon lenses, support -- about $10K in accessories) can be used on both Scarlets and the HVX can be a BTS camera.

[astigmatic]

i wonder wat the brevis mp.2 is going to bring to the table, will it eliminate more grain than the previous? Also, from everyhing that I"ve seen, the CFXL is a must for anyone planning to take the brevis to the scarlet. Bypassing the native 2/3 scarlet bokeh for the cfl1 or cfl2's bokeh would be a travesty.

[Avenger007]

Goodluck walking out the door with a $2500-3500 scarlet system. Want a nice Red LCD (trust me you do)? Double that price. Want some batteries and a charger? Add another $2000-3000. Want media to shoot on?..............

Expect to pay $10K or more for an actual package. Grab an HVX or HV20 and an adapter and shoot now. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed when they see that it costs thousands more than they thought for a scarlet. Don't get me wrong, I know first hand that RED will deliver an amazing product, but lets be realistic about the pricing.

[CB_Radio]

Don't get me wrong, I know first hand that RED will deliver an amazing product, but lets be realistic about the pricing.

But speaking realisticly about pricing would mean ignoring half of RED's marketing strategy. Certainly you know that the RED ONE is only $17,500

[Michael Y Wong]

goober + avenger have nailed it right on the head.

The Scarlet (with necessary workflow components) will undoubtly cost much, MUCH more then it's affordable introductory pricing. I'm sure the Scarlet's (when it finally comes out) image will be phenomenal, and it's DOF capability will be yards ahead of the 1/3" + 2/3" cams but still will not be up to par with a 35mm adapter with the appropriate lenses.

Dennis, I hate you!!! The scarlet + direct relay setup you suggested would be disgusting. Time to $ave up (yet again).

Cheers!

[astigmatic]

I was pricing things out and it may cost just as much to buy the S35 base as will be for Scarlet 2/3 interchangable base + Relay + 35mm Adapter. IF so, it would be better to just get the s35.

[PaPa]

just so you guys can have an idea. Curious Case of Benjamin Button was shot ona 2/3rd inch camera.

Depth of field wise.

If you shoot at F2.8 on the Scarlet, the depth of field is equivalent to shooting at F 5.6 and a half on 35mm...

And quite frankly, im tired of the under F 4 depth of field on 35mm adapters. Hyper shallow business. So then it's just a question of keeping the iris open on the scarlet and controlling your exposure with ND filters.

[PaPa]

oh, and supposedly the fixed lens scarlet is F2.4 through the zoom range. Which means we are probably looking at the equivalent depth of field at F5.6 on 35mm.

F 4 and F 5.6 are my favorite by far. so i know which route im going :)