How to have full manual everything on a 5D [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

deedive

01-04-2009, 08:30 PM

after a day with the camera i figured this out.

HOW TO HAVE MANUAL EVERYTHING ON THE 5D - even histogram

1. go to the store and buy a manual lense
(recommend contax zeiss, most are just as sharp as nikon zeiss (zf) but a fraction of the price. But they are slightly warmer which i like, if u don't, compensate 1 notch in white balance.)

2. order adapter on ebay
(there is a adapter to just about any mount to EOS canon mount. Do not buy the 70 buck adapter with AF assist. It will work great with digital rebel, 20d, 30d, 40d, 50d but not on the 5d. Physically doesn't fit. I'm guessing it wont on the mark 2 either) if from china it will take a while. 8 days plus

3.put the adapter on the lense, then the lense+adapter on the camera

4. turn the camera on

5. press menu, and go right to the second wrench- down to live view/movie func. set

6. LV func setting

7. stills+movie

8. Exposure simulation

9. then quit out by pressing menu button a couple times

10. on the top left of your camera change the dial to shutter priority (aka TV)

11. press live view button

12. press info button twice if u want to see the histogram (disapears while recording but shows before and after)

13. press ISO button on the top right of the camera and with the dial on the top right change the iso to whatever u want

14. slightly press the "take a picture" button halfway to lock it in

15. with the dial on the top choose whatever shutter speed u want

16. set the aperture physically on the lense

17. when ready to shoot press the exposure lock (*)

18. press the button in the middle of the wheel to record.

THERE U GO MANUAL EVERYTHING WITH HISTOGRAM
:):):) thought this would be good for people who just got there camera , happy shooting

filmmaker's gang

01-04-2009, 10:13 PM

are you sure?.. are you really sure?..

Elton

01-04-2009, 11:53 PM

Thanks for posting! Very helpful, I will check it out.

deedive

01-05-2009, 12:02 AM

are you sure?.. are you really sure?..

works for me:)

infurno

01-05-2009, 12:05 AM

Not working here. Tried it 3 times, step by step.

deedive

01-05-2009, 12:15 AM

i have been wrong before.

Michael Andre

01-05-2009, 07:58 AM

i have been wrong before.
Not in this case! Works perfectly. BTW thanks for the warning about the $70 adapters, I've got the cheap ones and was just about to buy those...I'll stick to the el cheapo.

Benton

01-05-2009, 08:42 AM

Excellent Post !
THANK YOU

24Peter

01-05-2009, 10:16 AM

Can you post a link to the right adapter?

TimurCivan

01-05-2009, 10:19 AM

good work dale. if it works...

Lee Wilson

01-05-2009, 10:45 AM

Can you post a link to the right adapter?

I use the Novoflex EOS/NIC - excellent quality, very well made.

deedive

01-05-2009, 11:35 AM

Not working here. Tried it 3 times, step by step.
What is happening when u do it?

Not in this case! Works perfectly. BTW thanks for the warning about the $70 adapters, I've got the cheap ones and was just about to buy those...I'll stick to the el cheapo.

I sold my 70 buck one a long time ago, (was great on the 30d) kinda wish i still had it to see if it would work on the mark ii. Didnt fit on the original 5d. I think its a full frame thing. life is a little bit easier. :grin:

good work dale. if it works...
Only one way to find out :). As i said before i have been wrong before. You never know, the canon automator is a craftly devil.

infurno

01-05-2009, 12:03 PM

What is happening when u do it?

I turn the camera off, turn it back on and follow each of your steps to the letter. (Except for one, rotate the EF lens to disconnect the pins)

With the ISO set to ~500, shutter at 60 I lock the settings and hit Record. Everything looks good...

I slightly touch the picture button to view the ISO and shutter speed and the values are something like 40 for shutter and 3200 ISO. It completely ignores everything I have set.

By slightly pressing the picture button so the overlay appears can you confirm that while recording the settings are exactly as you specified?

jeff9329

01-05-2009, 12:14 PM

How do you manually set the audio levels?

Can you monitor audio?

Lee Wilson

01-05-2009, 02:50 PM

How do you manually set the audio levels?

You cannot set the audio levels on the camera.

Can you monitor audio?

No.

deedive

01-05-2009, 08:18 PM

I turn the camera off, turn it back on and follow each of your steps to the letter. (Except for one, rotate the EF lens to disconnect the pins)

With the ISO set to ~500, shutter at 60 I lock the settings and hit Record. Everything looks good...

I slightly touch the picture button to view the ISO and shutter speed and the values are something like 40 for shutter and 3200 ISO. It completely ignores everything I have set.

By slightly pressing the picture button so the overlay appears can you confirm that while recording the settings are exactly as you specified?

when i do it my settings are already on the screen. and after pressing lock then record everything stays the same.

infurno

01-05-2009, 08:27 PM

Would you mind sharing what firmware version the camera indicates?

Thats nothing like what happens on my end.

deedive

01-06-2009, 08:25 AM

1.0.6

taubkin

01-06-2009, 10:40 AM

Anybody else can confirm this?! :D

anthonyt

01-09-2009, 04:24 AM

could this work without the adapter and the manual lens ? thanks guys

assiriel

01-09-2009, 10:07 AM

Works like a charm.

deedive

01-09-2009, 02:40 PM

great to hear assirel

:) we're still doing tests to make sure it is not doing some funny business with the shutter in the background but it does give u some control.

HVX2006

01-09-2009, 02:42 PM

17. when ready to shoot press the exposure lock (*)

What does this mean? What button? how?

assiriel

01-09-2009, 05:30 PM

Before i try your method, I only found that TV and manual lens will give shutter&aparture control only in iso 100. http://www.vimeo.com/2600208 But this is it. Plus a histogram bonus!
A trully manual control!!
Go get nikon zeiss glass guys! And you have a mini RED1 camera.
Mini in size, price, and :undecided compression .. With bigger sensor, cheaper lens, and full manual control of course. Thanks again Deedive!!

deedive

01-09-2009, 10:49 PM

What does this mean? What button? how?

http://i.fosfor.se/i07/070707_3b.jpg
the button on the top right, with the STAR * above it, and the chess board and - mag glass under it.

egproductions

01-11-2009, 07:22 AM

HVX2006

01-11-2009, 10:43 AM

Thanks deedive!

Lee Wilson

01-11-2009, 11:34 AM

This is not a picture of the 5D mkII.

http://i.fosfor.se/i07/070707_3b.jpg
the button on the top right, with the STAR * above it, and the chess board and - mag glass under it.

HVX2006

01-11-2009, 12:03 PM

I would just like to point out that out that assiriel is a junior member with only 3 posts. Not trying to accuse anybody of anything but I would feel more comfortable if a senior member can confirm that this works.

Well for me it works in so far that it locks the shutter and iso, but it is only possible after you hit record to see what the cam is shooting at by lightly pressing the take picture button. I did not see that setting the shutter or iso beforehand influenced what values the camera records once you press the record button, but that depending which way the lens is facing into light or darkness it would adjust the iso and shutter accordingly (probably trying to achieve as close as possible to correct exposure). To me it seems the only thing that really had much effect was the combination of TV mode + the * button that let the recording start in a fixed exposure mode. I think the top of the post should be modified to more accurately reflect this or otherwise proved some photographic evidence.

I tested this with nikon glass.

deedive

01-11-2009, 10:24 PM

it seems that people woke up on the wrongs side of the bed today.

I would just like to point out that out that assiriel is a junior member with only 3 posts. Not trying to accuse anybody of anything but I would feel more comfortable if a senior member can confirm that this works.Dont know why 3 posts makes assiriel's opinion unvalid. But if it does to you i have been around for a while. When i first posted it seemed to work perfectly. After doing test in a bunch of different condition i realized it doesnt work in all condition. So me and a few others where trying to figure out why. (i believe that i said i was testing before)

Thanks deedive!np, happy shooting.

This is not a picture of the 5D mkII.
I did a quick search for pics, and didnt think it mattered. Its in the same place with the same icons.
the button on the top right, with the STAR * above it, and the chess board and - mag glass under it.

to everyone who has the camera i hope they are having as much fun as me. It is a great stills camera. For people looking for a small video camera look somewhere else. get a hv20, 30 hf100, hf20 etc. with an adapter.

John Caballero

01-11-2009, 10:31 PM

For people looking for a small video camera look somewhere else. get a hv20, 30 hf100, hf20 etc. with an adapter.

Or just go out and shoot with the 5D. Plenty of people are already doing it and showing great results.

deedive

01-12-2009, 12:31 AM

Or just go out and shoot with the 5D. Plenty of people are already doing it and showing great results.

most of the questions i'm thinking are coming from people who don't have the camera and thinking about buyin it to make movies/films, etc.
I think u can buy a better "video" camera for less than 2800+lenses+tax. 5d is great for what it is, still camera and weird hybrid:)

u can get great video out of it, but i dont think if u ask any pro DP "what camera do u wanna shoot your next feature on" will answer 5d.

joe 1008

01-12-2009, 06:02 AM

...u can get great video out of it, but i dont think if u ask any pro DP "what camera do u wanna shoot your next feature on" will answer 5d.

Don't count on that. Vincent Laforet actually is using a 5D together with a RED in a professional production. (blog.vincentlaforet.com) There are many advantages for a stealthy & light camera, even for a pro.

John Caballero

01-12-2009, 06:11 AM

Don't worry it will be done and is going to look fantastic. Quite a few people will have the motivation and courage and actually shoot a great looking feature with the 5D. Looking at the footage just starting to come out it is obvious how great the moving images from it look and the big potential. You need workarounds and time to set up? Well, if you are going to shoot with 35mm by examnple, there are so many steps in camera set up before you can actually start shooting the first foot of film the time you spend setting up the 5D is like eating candy.

deedive

01-12-2009, 06:57 AM

Don't count on that. Vincent Laforet actually is using a 5D together with a RED in a professional production. (blog.vincentlaforet.com) There are many advantages for a stealthy & light camera, even for a pro.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying u cant, and get good work. And for shooting specific things it is probably perfect. I'm just saying it is intentionally crippled to make it harder. Things like lossing all settings when u stop recording. Hopefully the canon gods with bless us with another firmware update.

Don't worry it will be done and is going to look fantastic. Quite a few people will have the motivation and courage and actually shoot a great looking feature with the 5D. Looking at the footage just starting to come out it is obvious how great the moving images from it look and the big potential. You need workarounds and time to set up? Well, if you are going to shoot with 35mm by examnple, there are so many steps in camera set up before you can actually start shooting the first foot of film the time you spend setting up the 5D is like eating candy.

dont cry dude. We all love our cameras. And im sure u have the motivation and courage to carry on. Making a movie is hard period. But with the scarlet coming out soon, and it being cheaper why would someone shoot a feature on a 5d?

Look at the name of this thread, im just another person using the camera. Getting used to it and trying to come up with smoother workflows.

prolixs

01-12-2009, 08:07 AM

don't get ya'll panties in a bunch, just try it, if ya'll don't like it, nuff said =)

infurno

01-12-2009, 08:15 AM

At this point we make a compromise no mater which option we use.

35mm adapters
- lose a lot of light
- considerably lose image sharpness
- always more vignetting
- throws the camera way off balance
- cost almost as much as a 5D Mark II with a flip module and the necessary rods
- Requires additional batteries
- Has an extra On/Off switch people often forget
- Very heavy
- Time to setup, rig, configure
- More complicated setup (Focus on GG, zoom, etc...)
- Less reliable
- Grain is visible at higher f/stops
- A pain to clean and keep clean

5D Mark II
- Shutter speed selection/ISO needs workaround
- Limited manual control
- Requires Nikon glass for manual control (or twist EF off)
- extremely sharp pictures
- Unheard of low light performance
- Strange shape for video production
- Some aliasing problems require diffusion filters
- unorthodox post workflow can be a bit of a pain
- Small, lightweight, and does not attract much attention
- Relatively cheap. Compared to buying a HVX200 (for example) + 35mm adapter rig.
- 30p requires extra steps and time in post for 24p

The fact is that we have no perfect solution today. Both have advantages over the other.

Lee Wilson

01-12-2009, 10:16 AM

it seems that people woke up on the wrongs side of the bed today.

I did a quick search for pics, and didnt think it mattered. . . .

It doesn't.

HowdyDoo

01-12-2009, 10:28 AM

Most arguments about why the 5D has been crippled are centered around the fact that if the 5D was a fully capable video camera it would encroach upon Canon's video sales.

I don't understand why Canon would possess this thinking, simply because money is money. Why would they care about how they acquire it? If they acquire a customer's money by selling a DSLR or a video camera, it all still goes to Canon in the end.

If anything, Canon stands to make MORE money off the DSLR market than the video camera market thanks to lenses and accessories. Everyone knows that when you choose a DSLR brand, you are entering a world where you may feasibly spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on lenses from that same company, over time.

I think Canon would be pleasantly surprised with how much more money they would make if they decided to make the leap and merge their video department with their DSLR department.

HVX2006

01-12-2009, 02:41 PM

dvpixl

01-12-2009, 03:09 PM

I think Canon would be pleasantly surprised with how much more money they would make if they decided to make the leap and merge their video department with their DSLR department.

the RED is already doing that. If Canon did the same thing at a level that needs to satisfy current pro, indie and amateur filmmakers, they would have to directly compete with RED and give us identical performing cameras for a lot less than RED. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen.

And I doubt it is in their best interest to create an uber camera.

In a way, I am glad they aren't in that kind of business because then it would be mediocre and would be obsolete in 6 months.

Also dont forget that many photographers have no desire to get into the video business.

Also many of them and other passive hobbyists wonder why there is no auto focus and call that lame. They also dont really know how to follow focus - probably dont even care for it as a skill to obtain and take it for granted.

it all comes down to who understands what is happening with technology and why a DSLR video looks better than regular video.

ESTEBEVERDE

01-12-2009, 06:40 PM

How to have full manual everything on a 5D

filmmaker's gang

01-12-2009, 09:41 PM

the RED is already doing that.and for how much more?.. 3x?.. 4x.. 5x.. 6x?.. 12 months later?..

Nicky

01-13-2009, 08:13 AM

Exposure simulation is NOT accurate... Do some tests on a ruler to check DOF!

Exposure simulation is meant for TAKING STILLS!!!

Back to the drawing board again I guess... well just for ISO/Shutter selection at least :)
... Anyone solve the last piece of the puzzle??? (ISO/shutter control)

TimurCivan

01-13-2009, 09:48 AM

who would buy a 10k XLH1 if a 2300$ camera did 1080p 24p with full frame and interchangeable lenses....

think about it guys. they are a business. not your friend they arent going to do you favors....

deedive

01-13-2009, 09:49 AM

Hey deedive,

As of today do you still feel that your method gives you full manual or are you experiencing the same things i described in my last post, that the info 'on lock' is not the info the camera records once you hit rec? Or do we simply have cameras, adapters or lenses that react differently to your method? Just curios.

Did anyone come across a comprehensive write up for a 5D workflow? What is the best way to go as of today? What shutter speed best reflects the 180* shutter angle? If shutter 50 and 60 look the same and 40 is slightly faster than 40 at least when compared to the still frame at stutter 40, could 40 be the way to go? What is the best shutter speed to convert into 24 or 25p?

thanks

As for shutter speeds i like 60:)
But for your first question i am still experiencing quirks. BUt it seems to me that the setting u get after u hit record and tap the "take a picture" button are not %100 accurate either in exposure mode. Still looking into it but as of now i would have to say "no" it is not %100 of control. Sometimes I set the camera to 400iso, lock and press record, the camera shows it has changed the iso to 3200, when i check the footage i see it hasn't????? is it 400 or something in between? I still find this method to be one of the best for quick shooting. hope it helps

infurno

01-13-2009, 11:26 AM

This method does not work as you expect it to. All it will do is lock down the look, which is still useful but it will not keep your settings.

The shutter is dynamic and constantly changing to adjust live view for best exposure. You can see this by pointing the camera at a source like a light. It will ignore anything you have set and compensate. Therefore, you never really know what shutter speed is set even if you hit lock.

The shutter and ISO values while recording are incorrect too. More so when you don't have an EF lens connected to the pins. Camera does not seem to read exposure correct if using an adapter or twisting the lens off.

The only reliable manual control I have been able to get is:

Set ISO to 400
Set Shutter to 250
cover the lens, block out all light
hit exposure lock
hit record
uncover the lens

There may be other combinations but the image is very dark. So far control of shutter and ISO is out of our hands.

Furthermore, even with ISO 100 you have very limited control over shutter and ISO. As you click down from 1/80 to 1/30 its adjusting your Shutter and ISO at the same time.

joe 1008

01-13-2009, 12:08 PM

I'm just saying it is intentionally crippled to make it harder.

Yes, it's a shame. Many of our energy on the 5D forums goes this way: "Think you screwed us? We are going to show you that you didn't, you bloody Canon CEOs!!!

ESTEBEVERDE

01-13-2009, 12:17 PM

deedive

01-13-2009, 03:04 PM

Don't cuss out canon yet. (example: dont cuss at the guy who is making your food in the resturant, lol) We love u canon, but we would love u alot more if u gave us manual. Dont make us go back and love nikon instead. Does take great pics tho which is what i use it for most.

For underwater photgraphy and some video it is perfect. the next closest camera is a G9.

joe 1008

01-13-2009, 03:08 PM

Canon is F'ng us in the A!

This is utter B.S.

Despite the naysayers complete manual control over the camera is merely a firmware update that Canon has clearly shown it has not interest nor attention in releasing.

What a crock of shyte.

I'll sadly go along with what you wrote. It's not clear if 24p would be possible but adding manual controls is so simple, it's insulting that they don't exist.

Lee Wilson

01-13-2009, 04:50 PM

Canon is F'ng us in the A!

This is utter B.S.

Despite the naysayers complete manual control over the camera is merely a firmware update that Canon has clearly shown it has not interest nor attention in releasing.

What a crock of shyte.

Yep !

:thumbup:

I wonder whether the 5D2 is the first ever video recording device in modern times to be released in Europe with an NTSC frame rate ?

MJ Peg

01-14-2009, 02:22 AM

- not even that.... 30.0 fps is not quite NTSC's 29.97 :)

No, lots of little Point-n-Shoot stills cameras have a 30fps 'movie mode' too, because they design the cameras' LiveView to work at 30 or 60fps and the video feature is a spin-off bonus from that. Changing to 25fps for Europe would be a major redesign of the thing, sadly - something they're not likely to do for a small sideline feature of the device.

ESTEBEVERDE

01-14-2009, 10:56 AM

Truthfully we need a global imaging standard.

Ironically though, I think that standard will be merely minimum acceptable resolutions and perhaps color space as with UNIVERSAL digital exhibition and playback FRAME RATE will be almost instantly selectable from the minimum of a still photo to some constantly increasing upward of something like 120 fps ect. Perhaps even higher in a relatively short time.

incase

01-14-2009, 01:15 PM

deedive! many thanks!! :)

Nicky

01-15-2009, 07:20 AM

Whats the verdict??? Is Deedive correct???

It either is OR isnt.

deedive

01-15-2009, 08:37 AM

its inbetween, is it 100%- no, is it 0%- no. It can make it easier to use the camera. Is the camera still taking over some controls yes.

Nicky

01-15-2009, 11:58 AM

its inbetween, is it 100%- no, is it 0%- no. It can make it easier to use the camera. Is the camera still taking over some controls yes.

So the plot thickens... how can u be sure? Have you checked the shutter using CRT monitor? Or ISO grain using some sort of definable method?

Im gonna try it ASAP but I just wonder how we can trust other peoples judgments seeing as its hard to tell based on looking at the footage!

We a need a proper definable way of testing shutter (CRT scan?) Or ISO gain ??? Otherwise how do we ACTUALLY know what the heck we getting???