25p [pal] set up.

[deebee]

:'(can anybody help ?
I had the dvx100 and have now upgraded to the A
I am very pleased with both caneras and can see the control improvements in the a etc.
Along with the [A] I bought the anamorphic lense.For those of you who might want to know this is what i did within Prempro
I brought my regular [50i] footage into prem pro loaded the clips into the project window and highlighted the clips,then went to file interpret footage and changed the setting to 16/9 pal, voila! the clips were converted and looked great all the way through to mpeg and lastly dvd on a widescreen output.
So where does that leave me now ......well I want to know if I can do the same with 25P footage. From my investigations Im led to believe that I could edit my footage if it were shot in the scene file 5 mode [thick] but prem pro doesnt support scene file 6 [thin] have Igot this right or wrong?
hopeing someone can throw some light on this in pal land

[Mike_Donis]

If you load your 25P footage, you can edit it exactly as you would your 50i footage. The DVX doesn't actually record progressive frames, it's still recording onto a PAL video signal. So, it takes 25 Progressive frames, and plays them over 50 interlaced fields. Bottom line is, you can easily set up premiere to process "No Fields", and It will be exactly as you want it.

As far as I know, you can edit with Premiere having shot in either thick or thin mode. I'm not so sure about that, though.

[deebee]

Thanks for your responce Mike
So why have I seen loads of postings about no support for 24p/24pa in prem pro and that under ntsc it dosnt support
the above format and that you would have to take this into vegas or after effects or maybe dvfilmaker
Do you know if all this pulldown is only applicable to ntsc.
I seem to hear that my 25pa might not be supported in prem/pro in palland?

[scharky]

Premiere does support 24P however, it does not remove the pulldown from the camera. Basically the dvx records 4 full progressive frames and then one judder frame to coincied with the NTSC and DV standards. YOur NLE then removes this "judder 5th frame" and plays only the 4 full progressive frames. Premiere will not do this so your 24Pa footage will look all wacky.

[OPHERBA]

Hi,
Shoot with the DVX100 in "thin" mode.
After finishing your project export it as a movie (not to tape).
Import the "new" movie to the timeline and use the "flicker removal" option.
Great picture and no "jumping lines".

Tnx.
Johnnie

[deebee]

Thanks sharky
However with my 100a its only [25frames progressive] in pal Not 24or24pa?
I Expect this will make a difference but its just understanding these differences between pal/ntsc
What do you conclude?

[Mike_Donis]

Okay, here's the rundown dealie with progressiveness and interlacedness:

With NTSC, 24 frames are captured by the CCD, and then recorded to 60i on MiniDV tape. 60i is what it has to end up with...so when you edit in Premiere, which can only accept 60i footage, you're just editing 60i footage that LOOKS like 24p. The end look is exactly the same, you just happened to PHYSICALLY edit in 60i. But it still looks like 24p.

The NTSC model has a 24P advance mode, which records the pulldown in a way that certain programs can remove the pulldown, and you can edit in TRUE 24P (like Vegas or Final Cut Pro). But remember, in an NTSC world, when being viewed on a television, that footage must then again have a pulldown applied (so you can watch it in our 60i world)

With the PAL version, the CCD records 25 frames progressively per second. When being recorded to MiniDV in the PAL format, the frames are split into fields, and recorded in 50i. But, like the NTSC version, while being interlaced, it LOOKS progressive. So it may as well be.

In PAL countries, all films (shot on FILM, in 24P) are sped up to 25P. The pitch change in the audio is normally fixed. The picture then gets split into 50 interlaced fields (just like your PAL DVX does it).

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, treat it as normal video. In a physical sense, it IS just normal interlaced video. But it will LOOK progressive, which is what you want. And if you ever needed a progressive version, you could re-patch together the interlaced fields, creating a progressive image. (this, by the way, is how Premiere will treat your footage).

So, the bottom line is, as far as you're concerned, in your PAL timeline, edit your 25P footage from your PAL DVX as any normal footage. It'll look great!

[deebee]

Thanks Mike,
With the greatest respect there are a couple of excellent forums out there, but I have always struggled to find answers
about Pal queries.The forums seem to be ntsc based and there are very few Pal questions.I will try out editing in prempro with my anamorphic widescreen project shot in both [thick and thin]and let you know the end dvd result
Thanks again for your very informative reply
DeeBee

[Mike_Donis]

:D

[Zab]

Hi!
I have read in the Vegas help that it's better to work in progressive because it reduces the time needed to do the renders. Do you know if it's the same in Premiere?

I'm trying Vegas but I have to say I like much more Premiere. Do you know if Premiere has now its own good codec as Vegas does?

Thanks!

Zab

[Mike_Donis]

I have no idea about the faster renders...I guess it makes sense though; one frame versus two fields.

As far as Premiere's codec goes, I don't know how it holds up against other programs...to be honest, I thought they were all basically the same (but I really don't know). But I do know that the footage from my NTSC project looks great, having been edited in Premiere :D

[Zab]

Thanks! I asked the question about Premiere Codec because when I used to edit with Premiere 6, in a second generation of video with effects or transitions I had bix pixels (but not much visible) in the image... That's the only reason why I'm trying Vegas and his own codec.

[Mike_Donis]

That is true....there is some compression applied when you add in transitions or effects....but if they're added to a first generation video clip, they're not noticeable. It's only when you render an effects, export it, and then re-capture and re-render that you'll notice much anything. As far as I know, though, it's as much compression as you'll get anywhere else.

Correct me if I'm wrong though....Barry???

[Neil Rowe]

all deopends on what codec your rendering with. some codecs will turn somthing to complete junk after one render. others preserve the file better over multiple generations, and some are great for final export cause they smooth and blend, but stink for multiple generations, cuase it would wash it out instead of keep it crisp.. all in all since the nle does everything without affecting the original scource clips its always best to just do everything in one take if you can so that you only have one render, and generation loss.

[Mike_Donis]

But, IAL, I think he's talking about a standard DV codec, as in, whatever the default is with the individual programs (as in, not making it into a quicktime file, WMA, etc).

But as far as I know, the DV codec that Premiere has is a standard codec, no? As in, capturing through firewire in Premiere would give you the same codec as through Vegas or Avid or something like that.

I DO stress though, that I don't really know what I'm talking about, I'm just going by what I thought...

[Neil Rowe]

:) no prob, i too am talking about a standard dv codec. but there are multiple dv codecs to choose from - the microsoft dv codec for one, then theres the apple or quicktime dv, and *then theres avid- matrox-vegas- and so on ... they are all dv codecs, but they are not all equal. when you capture, its a straight digital copy, but when you do any rendering *or export via the dv codec of your choice(which could be any dv codec installed on your machine) you will start to notice a difference in the quality of the image pending the codec used. *the "standard" or "defualt" codec will depend on what program your using. *they are all dv codecs, but they are not all created equal.. espescially for multiple generation rendering.

[Mike_Donis]

ahhh...good to know.

That would explain why, in my current short film, I can edit in Premiere, for a rough cut, export it, re-capture it (to delete any unneeded files) and then re-capture it, with no apparent loss of quality, but the second I render a crossfade or colour-correct, a slight "blocky" look is obtained.

Good to know :D I guess that explains your "God" status, eh IAL ;)

[Neil Rowe]

well, actually you automatically get that title when you make 500 or so posts. the stars come with posts as well. so , theres no real reason to regard me as any more knowledgeable than some newbie.

[Mike_Donis]

hahaha I know, I know....jeez, can't you take a compliment :P

[Neil Rowe]

:) my username says it all.

[Mike_Donis]

;D