Progessive Scan DVD and Deinterlaced question...

[jchenier]

I generally shoot video in 24p (F5) and am a little confused about doing a progressive scan DVD. If I deinterlace the fields in premiere 6.5 (right click the clip: video options / field options / always deinterlace) and then export the timeline through the Adobe MPEG Decoder and burn to DVD, will this give me a Progressive Scan DVD?

I'm still trying to get the DVD options figured out, so any help (sorry if it's a stupid question) is GREATLY appreciated.

Cheers,
Justin

[Neil Rowe]

..if your trying to do progressive anything, you should be using 24pAdvanced mode (f6). and then you can make a 24p dvd, or a 30p dvd. anyway , you need to set the decoder settings to no fields, or "progressive scan" and then be sure that your dvd burning software knows its a progressive dvd .. its all done during the encoding process. but again, it should be done from the 24pA mode for the best results.

[jchenier]

So, does deinterlacing the fields have any effect on the output? If I shoot in F6 (24pA), deinterlace the fields, set the Output Details in Adobe MPEG Encoder to "No Fields" I'm on the right track, right?

Since I'm using Premiere 6.5, 24pA isn't going to give me grief with pulldowns, is it?

Thanks,
Justin

[Neil Rowe]

..once you do the pulldown there is no deinterlacing to do. you will only have progressive frames left, and you just set premiere for "no fields". premiere 6.5 wont let you do the pulldown. you have to use after effetcs, or DV filmmaker.or if you dont have either of those.. if you can wait till end of this month..just upgrade to ppro 1.5 and it will do the pulldown for you.

then right , you can set the encoder to "no fileds/progressive" and go from there. ..remember you have to have a progressive display and player to watch it in progressive though..

[jchenier]

Ok, I think I understand. Let me just throw you one more question (thanks, by the way) If my intent is NTSC DVD for viewing on television, shooting 24p normal and editing in P6.5 then output as a regular DVD is going to serve me fine, right?

I'd like to go 16:9 for the widescreen, but need to spend the $ elseware in my budget.

Cheers,
Justin

[Barry_Green]

So, does deinterlacing the fields have any effect on the output?
De-interlacing will ruin your footage. It will unnecessarily throw away half your resolution. Do not de-interlace progressive-scan footage.



Since I'm using Premiere 6.5, 24pA isn't going to give me grief with pulldowns, is it?

If you want to make a pure 24P project, you can't do it with Premiere 6.5 (unless you use DVFilm's Maker software to convert your DV footage to a pure 24P quicktime file, then edit in Quicktime mode).

[sfogden]

Also, as I recall, there is some issue about converting 24P (normal) with DVFilmmaker to use in Premier Pro because DVFilmmaker converts to 23.987 (?) and Premier Pro has a 23.98 timeline? I don't recall the details except that 1/1000 difference in the timeline was going to cause sync problems or require extra converstions & processing (according the DVFilmmaker website.)

The DVFilmmaker website had the workflow posted for a while.

Pardon my ignorance, but when too much of that stuff comes up, my brain goes 'tilt.'

[Barry_Green]

The number is 23.976. It comes from being .1% slower than 24fps, which is an accomodation for NTSC televisions. NTSC televisions don't run at 60 fields per second, they run at 59.94 fields per second, which is .1% slower. So when you transfer 24fps film over, you can't run it at a true 24fps, because the TV doesn't run at a true 60fps. You transfer it at .1% slower.

24P Normal is recorded at 23.976 fps. DVFilm Maker converts the recording to be a pure 23.976fps file. Premiere Pro's timeline is called 23.98 only because they're rounding it off. It should (emphasize *should*) be running at 23.976 fps. Even After Effects calls it 23.98. I don't believe there will be a problem.

[sfogden]

Thanks Barry. After reading the DVFilmaker's suggested workflow to get it to '23.98' for Premier, it seemed like too many hoops to jump through.

Here is the link to DVFim Makers's suggeested workflow to make a 24P DVD using Premier Pro: http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/24Ppro.htm

Here's what they said about the frame rate on a different page:

"Premiere 6.0, 6.5 and Premiere Pro have problems with 23.976. The problem is that when Premiere exports a "23.98" Quicktime it is literally 23.980 and not 23.976, and so the Quicktime will slip 1 frame out of sync for every 4 minutes. For Premiere 5.1 through 6.5 we recommend 24.000 fps and 48048 Hz audio, and the Quicktime editing mode works best. For Premiere Pro they removed the Quicktime editing mode and non-standard audio rates, so you must use "Video for Windows" editing mode at 24.000 fps and 48000 Hz audio. Premiere Pro will convert the 48048 audio to 48000 but it will still stay in sync. See here for more info on using Premiere Pro with DVFilm Maker. "

[Barry_Green]

Yeah. Well. Guess that answers that... I wouldn't jump through those hoops either. 48048 is a .1 % speed adjustment to try to compensate, but it seems like the process would be prone to error. If there's an easy way, I hope our resident Premiere Pro expert IAL will write in. I'll just throw another plug in for Vegas 5.0 now... effortless 24P editing, effortless 24P DVD creation, no hoops to jump through.

And yeah, looks like I slipped a decimal point -- I figured the rounding error between 23.976 and 23.98 would mean one frame every 40 minutes, not every 4 minutes! At 40 minutes that'd be within the realm of acceptability for up to 120 minutes or so, but at every 4 minutes, that's completely unacceptable.

[sfogden]

I hear you about Vegas. I'm holding my breath for the moment, waiting to see just exactly what Adobe means by "DVX100" & 24p support. Having invested in Pro, I'm sure hoping for 'effortless' 24P support. If it's not there, I'll be using Vegas by the end of the month.

[Michael_Richard]

about 24pA footage. When does the pulldown occur? When shooting? Or is it the NLE that does it?

If I am previewing footage before capturing on an NTSC monitor, what am I looking at? I can prieview 24pA footage in
in PPRO right now. So what is it that PPRO won't do exactly that 1.5 will do?

[Barry_Green]

Pulldown is applied during shooting. It gets recorded as 60i video. Premiere Pro can edit it as 60i video, but it can't reverse the pulldown sequence and extract the original, pure 24P frames. Version 1.5 is supposed to rectify that.

[John C Lyons]

Hollywood-made DVDs are all progressive right?

So if I make a progressive DVD (all shot in 24pA) and someone without a progressive TV and DVD player tries to play it it WILL work right? it just wont work to its full potential.

[sfogden]

The DVD player will recognize it's 24P going out to NTSC & add the pulldown, automatically. That way someone with a progressive scan TV & DVD player can watch the progressive scan and someone with a regular TV will still see it as normal NTSC.

The best of both worlds with additional DVD storage capacity.

[John C Lyons]

awesome! appreciate the info!