Skip frames to make 60p footage to look like 24p?

[Iudex]

Hey guys, so basically this is a need for me because I like the 24p look of the EX1, hate the 60p look when played at 60p, but love the sound recording at 60p to play it at any other lower frame rate (achieving slow-motion WITH sound).

So another way to ask this would be: how do I grab a 60p, 60fps segment and make it las the same but at 24fps, discarding, blending or whatever is possible?

Thank you very much!

[David Jimerson]

Not sure what you're asking here -- do you want to make the video slow motion?

Or is it just the sound you want to slow down? If so, you don't have to record it at 60p; the sound recording is the same either way.

[Andy Olson]

If you are wanting to get 60p to play back as 24p without slow motion then you will have to use After Effects and a program like Twixtor to do frame blending and morphing to convert your frame rate. Most NLE's that you this on will most likely give you stuttery motion.

If you just want slow-mo sounding audio, wouldn't you also need slow-motion video to go with it? I agree with David that we may need a better description of what you are trying to achieve if its not what I talking about at the top.

Best,
Andy

[Iudex]

Hi there, thanks a lot for the answers.

The thing is I don't like the non-filmic look of 60p recording played back at 60fps, it looks like 24p fast motion, but there is no fast motion. It's a matter of frames quantity... the clip looks too... smooth? I can't find the right word.

So my problem is that the only way to capture sound with EX1, recording more that 24/30 frames (for better slow motion), seems to be recording in 60p. There wouldn't be an issue if all my slow motion clips would be separated from normal motion ones. I mean that in a movie I would have part of the take in normal motion and then add slot motion somewere, for example. So the problem would be that the normal motion part would look terribly odd, if the rest of the film is shot in 24p. And I am also concerned about the look of the 60p slow motion, so it would be good to be able to skip some frames and have it be for example 48p. I'm not talking about blending or anything, just frame skipping. For example: I have a ficticious 10p recording and want to make it look like a 5p recording: I take frame 1, discard frame 2, and so on. I guess it souldn't look stuttery if the shutter is the same when recording 60p and 24p, 60p should just add extra frames between the 24p mode.

Thanks, I hope I am clear! :D

[David Jimerson]

Right click clip on timeline>Speed/Duration; set to 40% for optimal slo-mo. Assuming this is on a 24p timeline.

[Iudex]

Thanks David, I figured that out already but thanks anyway. The thing is that if I want it to run faster I should do what I'm asking here how to do :D

[David Jimerson]

OK, then I'm not sure why you were asking for slo-mo. :)

In any case, if you want to double the speed, do the same thing, but change the number to 200%.

[Amr Rahmy]

you have a weird way of saying it, but i think i got what you mean, first thing if you film something still at 24 and 150 fps it will look exactly the same, (the more frames will darken the image a bit, depending on film or digital, the bitrate of the image will get lower on the more fps, but the image itself is the same or the "look" that every one is saying will be exactly the same beyond the mechanical or geeky digital talk, what you will see with your eyes is the same when played back), after that, if something in front of the camera or the camera itself or a combination of both moved at a speed higher than what 24 fps can capture which is not that fast, you will notice a difference between 24fps and 48, 72, 96, 120, 144, or anything in between, first the difference, i'll give you an example, watch a picture of fast traffic at night, they are famous for (slow shutters), photographers shooting a picture at night in 30 sec or a minute to get that weird blurry light trail, instead of cars with bright front and back lights, that is a very exaggerated look at motion blur, if you look at individual images from 24fps of a some guys hand moving, it will be blurry while played at 24fps it wont look as real time or something closer like 60fps where depending on how fast the motion is can have no blur or at least much less blur than 24fps, but recording too many fps will make you loose some light and in digital allot of quality, in expense of much less blur, i would stick to 24x times, so 48, 72, 96, 120, 144, only when you need to, loosing light is a serious game, people would buy 200,000$ camera instead of 10,000$ for a couple more stops, or get master primes instead of other glass that can be 10 cheaper for one stop gain in low light, so loosing light deliberately cant be taken lightly, when you have to and if the camera have variable frame rates, stick to x24fps and use it wisely and you will get gr8 results.

too much rambling.

[Amr Rahmy]

i forgot the second part, depending on the speed or the higher the speed of the object or a combination of the object and the camera movement, you can loose some valuable information on 24fps, like when panning a scene too fast compared to 24fps, we all have seen that in many movies, add other fast camera movements or objects in the scene where if it's fast enough compared to 24fps it can skip some very important parts that we needed to see, in that case it doesn't matter if you film it at 1000fps, when you play it back at 24 fps it will still loose the most parts, it's not something everyone can see, that somethings were missing at these high speed movement, but other than the lack of blur, you will still lose some information when you playback at 24fps because normally your eyes can see much faster than that, but that doesn't apply at everyone, every person has his own speed of seeing or understanding images, so most people at 24fps if there is no blur, wont notice the difference if they see the same thing at higher speed, it will look the same to them, but just so you know.if this doesn't make sense to you, probably i said it the wrong way.

[Iudex]

Found my solution! It was so simple... I just need to set the secuence to 24p. It looks just fine. I'm uploading a video right now so you can see!

Yeah it makes sense, but are you sure? I'll be right back with the video as an example we can talk about it.

[Iudex]

Here's the clip: http://exposureroom.com/members/IGV.aspx/assets/c8e44d1478114ece8f9666bd08078118/

amrrahmy: 24fps/higher is mostly noticed in my case in the camera movement. Check the beggining of the video, it looks stuttery. The original looked fluid, but as it is a stutter movement, it looks so weird...

[Amr Rahmy]

these camera movements has nothing to do with film, it's like an #$%^& moving a d90 too fast to show too much rolling shutter issues at 24fps.

24fps is a speed, if you make a time line at 24 fps you have to respect it's speed, and stabilize the camera better, and zooming adds to the shakiness, what your seeing is mostly the shakes getting cut, not the fast movement, if the camera was stable enough, it would not been this bad, no stutters at least, just a few gaps.

[Iudex]

amrrahmy... come on... this is a TEST, done with a random playing around... how can you say "...this bad..." . . . ? I guess that if I show you a movie and you don't like it you crucify me.

The look is similar (if not the same) to what I would have obtained using 24p directly from the camera. Looks nice to me. I like it.

Thanks for the help..

[Amr Rahmy]

the cuts through the shakes wont be this bad because you changed direction slightly every time you shake the camera, so you capture one frame going in one direction then a slight shake and you capture the next frame going in the wrong direction then again to the direction you meant to go for, if it was only going in one direction with fluid movement, you would not have seen stutters, i was refereeing to the shakes being bad, the test was horrible by the way. you need to understand what you are doing and establish all the parameters and variables involved in the test to get results and be able to understand and resolve the problems you have. by the way any test is good when viewed by a group of people, you can establish the parameters you didn't acount for and make a better test, like stabilise the camera and have the dog run through the frame and see the motion blur and stuters and establish exactly how fast do you need to capture to get zero motion blur, and also to establish the importance of dollies and steadicams.

[Amr Rahmy]

by the way you can fix this stutters by tracking and stabilizing the shot, small quality loss, and zero stutters, if the camera movements are not too erratic