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View Full Version : Downsides to the HMC150



ESTEBEVERDE
12-17-2008, 11:22 PM
Exceptionally impressed with this camera at this price point.

Other than interchangeable lenses it's hard to see many downsides.

What do you think?

some1shero
12-18-2008, 12:30 AM
I agree with you. I did so much research before buying this camera and couldn't be happier. I showed it to my HVX200 buddies, and jealously ensued. :Drogar-Love(DBG):

Here's why I love this camera:

Light and balanced
Manual controls
Great low light abilities
Can use most HVX accessories
Super cheap SDHC media
HDMI (recording via HDMI gets 4:2:2 colorspace, great for keying)
LCD reverse button (great for 35mm adaptor use)
Same chip as HPX170
Scene File Settings
Great EVF
Waveform monitor
Histogram Focus Assist
True 24p recording
Wide Lens

and that's just from the top of my head. I'm sure if I went through the manual, I'll be able to list them all.

What bothers me about the camera:

Doesn't sport 20x zoom lens like the XH A1
Doesn't record 4:2:2 via SDHC
Focus and Iris can share the same ring
Bigger than the HPX170
AVC HD not natively supported by Final Cut Pro

It's clear that for me, the PROS outweigh the CONS, and I really don't have grounds to complain because all the CONS really fall into a different price range of cameras.

Evro
12-18-2008, 01:25 AM
For the price I honestly don't think you could expect much more on the hardware side, better glass would have been nice but probably driven the cost of the camera up so we need to be realistic about these things.

Software wise I'm certain Panasonic could offer some improvements via firmware upgrade in terms of making the camera more suited for professional use by getting rid of it's consumer styled features. The original XL2 had a film grain switch on it that was replaced in later revisions, so hopefully Panasonic will do the same with it's scene fade functions.

Has anyone figured out if the HMC has a boot key sequence to get it into some sort of diagnostic/service mode like on JVC cameras?

ESTEBEVERDE
12-18-2008, 09:57 AM
I would think all cameras have hidden service menus?

Hopefully we can gain access and find some goodies!

matt s.
12-18-2008, 10:30 AM
is the 150 bigger than a 170? I thought they use the same chassis???

Adam74
12-18-2008, 10:41 AM
the 170 is bigger. Not by much though.

Barry_Green
12-18-2008, 12:44 PM
They are very close in size, using basically the same body, but as Adam74 says, the 170 is slightly bigger. Mainly in that its handle is a little higher.

Hidef1080
12-18-2008, 12:45 PM
The onboard mic is not that great....
Other than that, I can't think of any major downsides to the 150 for me.

AVCHD however....
The codec is very good but the support for is still lacking right about now.
It's getting better but... I want it now!!

SteveCharles
12-18-2008, 01:34 PM
I just tested a 150 this morning. DRS is really great and the screen is an improvement over my original HVX200's. I also loved how the 150 is under 4 pounds.

I guess I would call the new menu system a slight con. The colored, nontransparent background of the menu can cover up almost the entire screen when selecting options like gamma.

Justyn
12-28-2008, 11:32 AM
There's way more pros than cons to this camera... and in specific relation to the old HVX. But a couple of things I do miss.. timelapse, 4 channels of audio, and playing back in slow-motion...


other than this.. there's 20 improvements atleast over the original HVX.. most noted being the LCD, the side positon of the audio controls, the WFM, image flip, the handling, the lowlight capability, the 60p slow mo, and overall a correctly position menu buttons and such. I never understood how or why the HVX controls were upside down...


The only biggtime regret that I have is that it didn't come out sooner and that currently I don't own 3 of them.. but I'm working on it. Number 2 will be coming soon and then 3 should birth sometime next year. For what I spent on my HVX rig.. I could have bought 3 of these.. I also think that for a while I can get buy without buying a wide.... maybe a telephoto will be in order, but that's something for a specific gig and will get that when it arrives.


There's a reason this camera won prosumer cam of the year... and it's well-deserved. Personally I didn't see enough incentive to buy the 170 over the 150.. The final results will look the same... .workflow aside, and there's enough of a savings that I could buy a 2nd camera or a new computer...


Time has been good to the independent filmmaker, much to the chagrin of the big production companies, rental houses, and industry at large...

Hidef1080
12-28-2008, 12:32 PM
Time has been good to the independent filmmaker, much to the chagrin of the big production companies, rental houses, and industry at large...

Yep.:thumbup:

Justyn
12-30-2008, 06:06 PM
To get a broadcast rig back in the 90's you'd be spending 50k or more for the cam, deck, storage and acessories... We can get something now that'll do the trick for 1/10th of the amount...

dcloud
12-30-2008, 11:01 PM
i plan on buying the hmc soon! im guessing another downside(very minor) is the lens cap.. panasonic cant seem to come up with the auto closing cap like in other new cameras.

BrianMurphy
12-31-2008, 08:52 AM
To get a broadcast rig back in the 90's you'd be spending 50k or more for the cam, deck, storage and acessories... We can get something now that'll do the trick for 1/10th of the amount...

Take a look at my AVATAR and let me stress the "MORE" part. Like the saying goes:"seen the movie got the t-shirt"
My favourite part about all the wonderful progress (aside from image quality )from the first RCA TK76 camera I worked with to the new HMC150 sitting on my table is how light things are now compared to then and I won't even talk about doing streeters with an Arri BL.
Brian

Kit_L
12-31-2008, 04:17 PM
This is the only downside that I have seen, so far.

Once I start processing some real footage, I will post the setting I will use to 'de-barrelise' the footage. cheers, kl

libneon
01-04-2009, 12:08 PM
LCD reverse button (great for 35mm adaptor use)

Question on this...does it create a true mirror image or just a "flip". i.e. if you're using a 35mm adapter will the right be on the left with this feature or will it eliminate the need for a flip unit?

ilauzirika
01-04-2009, 02:10 PM
Question on this...does it create a true mirror image or just a "flip". i.e. if you're using a 35mm adapter will the right be on the left with this feature or will it eliminate the need for a flip unit?

the flip will only be on the LCD, and unless you want to flip the image in post, the flip unit will still be requiered to record he image right.

libneon
01-04-2009, 11:48 PM
the flip will only be on the LCD, and unless you want to flip the image in post, the flip unit will still be requiered to record he image right.

Yes, I understand this. Could flipping the image in post be worth it considering that a flip unit will undoubtedly cause some light loss...right?

I was asking if the LCD image is a mirror image or a flipped image. I hope that makes some sort of sense. Would not the image have to be flipped and inverted to be the same as what the naked eye sees?

achille
01-04-2009, 11:50 PM
hi i'm pretty new to all of this, however it's time to buy (going crazy sharing equipment in film school)

my anticipated needs are:
- need a camera i can start earning a living with right of the top.
- may be shooting weddings, conferences, and doing video for web for bread and butter (my day job is owner of web design studio/co.)
- my main objective is to be doing documentary work, my own projects , as well as camera for hire.



my questions:
- my top question, the 150 or the 200, or 200A? (did i mention i'm a student, 60 years old, w v limited budget... from Barry's review of the 200A it seems it might not be worth the difference in price over the 200... or did i miss something.. and the 170 with all the great new changes seems like it would break my operating budget in that it offers no alternative to a stock of P2 cards)
- how does the quality of 150 /200 output compare?
- is shooting HD essential option in order to work at a professional level, ie should i be considering the 100B at this point?
- if you can't work w AVC HD natively in Final Cut is that a real issue, or are there workarounds?
- in the event i end up getting work intended for television, is DVCPRO essential?

cheers,
achille



What bothers me about the camera:


AVC HD not natively supported by Final Cut Pro

.

Hidef1080
01-05-2009, 03:42 AM
Based on what I've read I think you'll better off with the 170 over the 200 or 200a.

Due to your need for TV work I'd say the 170 over the 150 for DVCPRO-HD and SDI output.

I see no reason to limit yourself to SD only so again I would say the 170 or 150 over the 100b. Remember we all make the switch in less than 50 days so the want/need for HD content will only increase.

Don't know anything about Mac's or Finale Cut..... [Love my Vista PC's!!!!:thumbup:]

Quality-wise based on what I've seen and read, the 170/150 are at least equal to the 200's.



I do web and graphic design as well so any of the cameras you listed above [100b???] would be more than enough for web SD and HD video.

Luciano
01-21-2009, 12:48 AM
Here's why I love this camera:
[...]
HDMI (recording via HDMI gets 4:2:2 colorspace, great for keying)
[...]


I realize that this thread may be somewhat "cold" by now, but my curiosity was caught by your statement about the HDMI output. Does it provide a 4:2:2 colospace because it is not compressed as in the SD card? I have not found anything about this in their literature. Also, how would you use the HDMI output? Is there a field recorder that could take that as an imput? Thanks.

DavidNJ
02-12-2009, 07:08 PM
The camera is only part of it. With well done light management a $1000 camera can beat a poorly done $30k one, not to mention a $3.5k one. Some of the $1000-1500 cameras can do pretty good work with the right lighting.

Also, HDMI capture and use of an editing format with greater color depth and breath (e.g. Cineform) can dramatically improve the image over the compressed on camera images.

HDMI is output before the image is compressed and color removed for AVCHD encoding. There is A LOT more information. On the HDV cameras the resolution is dropped to 1440x1080 and uprezzed to 1920x1080 even though the sensors may be native 1080p. That said, apparently the lens can be a limiting factor in either case.

mikeshu
02-13-2009, 09:25 PM
My only major gripe right now is....

When you've recorded in different recording modes (24P and 60P) on the same card, in order to view the footage, your recording mode has to be the same as the footage you want to view, otherwise you get red text over the clip in playback mode.

Am I missing anything? To play back the different formats, I've had to go back to camera mode, change the recording mode to the same as the clips I want to play back, AND THEN go back to playback mode to watch the clips?

Argh! I guess maybe that's what the HMC150A will fix.

David Saraceno
02-14-2009, 09:50 AM
I believe that this procedure was also required by the HVX200.