Amazing new redrock product!!!!!

[Skywalker688]

So Brian Valente from Redrock was kind enough to let me demo a product that Redrock has coming out soon, and I mean SOON...and I can easily say that I am floored. There is little I can say that wouldn't tip you off to what it is, and I'm not sure I'm allowed to say any of this!

Let's just say it changed the entire dynamic of my shoot, and I was ready to sell my sister for the prototype after my shoot was over.

Feel free to ask questions, and I'll let Brian and Andrew decide exactly what information comes out....

But when it is announced, I will gladly let everyone in on exactly how well it works...

[Jeff Anderson]

hmmm hope this is their wireless FF... So whats the point of this post if you arent going to tell us what it is?

[aalleexx]

is this redrock following RED marketing stategies? :) some of us are not attracted to the whole "guess what it is" game

[disjecta]

Your email seems a little premature given you can't discuss anything.

[aalleexx]

agreed


Your email seems a little premature given you can't discuss anything.

[robertwerden]

It is an EASY button

[Skywalker688]

Sorry guys...I was so excited, but I can't really say much. If you have used 35mm adapters, you'll understand this. I shot indoors, and I wasn't in a location where I could use 2k lights. I shot a whole courtroom with 1 1k, 2 650s, and every now and then a kino for fill.

[Joseph Stunzi]

So it's a new adapter then. With less light loss?

[Noel Evans]

Light accelerator? :P Joke.

[Joseph Stunzi]

I'm telling you mentioning lights is a dead giveaway.

[Tim Naylor]

So Brian Valente from Redrock was kind enough to let me demo a product that Redrock has coming out soon, and I mean SOON...and I can easily say that I am floored. There is little I can say that wouldn't tip you off to what it is, and I'm not sure I'm allowed to say any of this!

Let's just say it changed the entire dynamic of my shoot, and I was ready to sell my sister for the prototype after my shoot was over.

Feel free to ask questions, and I'll let Brian and Andrew decide exactly what information comes out....

But when it is announced, I will gladly let everyone in on exactly how well it works...

Is it crack?

[Skywalker688]

Well now you can't accuse me of red marketing:-)

[Taylor Rudd]

It's a magnifying glass that increases a light's output.

[CB_Radio]

it changed the entire dynamic of my shoot, and I was ready to sell my sister for the prototype after my shoot was over.

Hookers and cocaine?

[Taylor Rudd]

Hookers and cocaine?

How is that a change? :happy:

[Joseph Stunzi]

This is telling... http://redrockmicro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6628

[frobozz]

Since you can't tell us more about the product, perhaps you can elaborate on the sale of your sister :-)

Duncan

[CB_Radio]

it changed the entire dynamic of my shoot, and I was ready to sell my sister for the prototype after my shoot was over.


Hookers and cocaine?


How is that a change? :happy:

Annnnnnnd scene.

Thanks everybody for coming, CB and trudd will be here all week. Tip your waitresses!

[TimurCivan]

Probably a variation on Dan Danicaou's optical GG. That thing had no lightloss. Too bad it never made it to market.

I mean its gotta be a end all be all GG if he needed less light to shoot with...

[CB_Radio]

Since you can't tell us more about the product, perhaps you can elaborate on the sale of your sister :-)

LOL :grin:

[PaPa]

so what's the deal then?

[TimurCivan]

I say new GG.....

OOOoooo OR a new relay mount, so he can use a more sensitive cmaera like an HPX500!

[PaPa]

I can understand not wanting to tell us what the material is or whatever it is, how it's made, but is there reason to just get people to create speculation as to what it is you're even talking about ?? Don't see any problem with saying it's a new design, or GG. Not really giving anything away. Seems a bit silly to me.

[Joseph Stunzi]

Probably a variation on Dan Danicaou's optical GG. That thing had no lightloss. Too bad it never made it to market.

I mean its gotta be a end all be all GG if he needed less light to shoot with...


Got a link to info on that. I can't find him on google... and that's a travesty!

[Joseph Stunzi]

Yeah. This is a leak from a user not from Redrock though. At least he's not giving us slivers of images or anything.

[robertwerden]

I know what it is

[PaPa]

....

[ReneH]

I think its a new 35 mm adapter that will cost $200.00 dollars and uses no achromat, other than the particular lens mount of your choice and the new super secret GG. Yeah that's it!

[Joseph Stunzi]

what is it then?

[weixiang623]

I think its a new 35 mm adapter that will cost $200.00 dollars and uses no achromat, other than the particular lens mount of your choice and the new super secret GG. Yeah that's it!

if that's the case, the guy's sister must be really .... yeah... to be only worth $200

[aalleexx]

I know what it is.......lower prices :)

[Joseph Stunzi]

nope... it's not lower prices! fail.

[KyleProhaska]

It's an adapter, and if it isn't...they're really foolish lol.

Based on their previous adapter, it better be a lot better.

[LuckyStudio 13]

this is it http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23521

http://www.redrockmicro.com/cartpics/microSupport_rod_converter_lg.jpg


YAWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNN

[Joseph Stunzi]

That's not it though. It's something different.

[Loren Simons]

when will we be able to find out what it is than?

[LuckyStudio 13]

its about time they put out a new 35mm adapter ! Now the blade has some real competition !

[Skywalker688]

My sister is no longer for sale. That is just wrong. You can't sell your sister twice. Right?

[Skywalker688]

It's not the thing pictured above...Redrock has a bunch of new products coming out. The one i played with was the best thing I've had the chance to use, as far as products like it. We were trying to run two cameras, and lets just say that I had to stop down 3 stops to match camera B.

[TimurCivan]

hmm did they invent a new camera head thats very sensitive.

3 stops of exposure wihtout touching lights is quite a claim. i will be upset if this is something lame Skywalker. I will personally ban you. ;)

[Richard J. Johnson]

This thread seems to be a real waste of time.

[Skywalker688]

Call it what you want. I'm just excited. I have loved Redrock products since they started. I do not work for them. I can say that what I have been able to play with is far beyond what they have currently on the market. And though I can't say I have tried out a ton of the available gear around, what I was able to play with is amazing. And to the person who says this thread is a waste of time, he obviously didn't get the hint...

Let's just say that nothing on the market, in the same price range, touches the next available product. Which I am told, comes out in January. Which means that what you people that are dying to know, you could fall asleep for one-too-many days, and miss the announcement. It's pretty freakin amazing. I don't say 3 stops unless I mean it. We tested it against the original redrock and against a still camera to test the ASA....

[Essami]

It took 6 weeks to deliver my RR shoulder mount and it was announced a few months before that. I dont remember when was the last time that I was able to buy a product a couple of weeks after it was announced. If thats what you mean by "comes out in January"? Or do you mean it will be announced in January?

[leteeci]

Hmhmh..

What we can have of pre-announcement of something that can not be told from somebody that isn't supposed to tell something??

Next time you better say nothing, or go to the wood, dig a hole..and scream inside the news you can not tell three times..

I heard it doesn't worked long time ago.. but maybe this time will help..

:)

[Kegan]

I think you made a mistake starting the thread. I don't know how you become a "tester" for one of these companies, but the amount of information you're seeming to leak, while it may be good for us, might be tightening your own noose. Looks like you're using your real name over at the other forum - can they sue you for breaching contract by saying certain things?

You may not realize it, but every so often you're letting more and more information slip. Is it really worth getting into legal trouble, or at the very least not being able to test their products again? I dunno, if it were me and a company let me test a great prototype and told me to keep my mouth shut, I'd be damned if I did otherwise.

-Kegan

[Capt Quirk]

Any pictures of your sister? How much are you asking outright?

[Noel Evans]

I don't say 3 stops unless I mean it. We tested it against the original redrock and against a still camera to test the ASA....

I think you just let the cat out of the bag - a new 35mm adapter coming from Redrock folks.

[Jason Adams]

Wow companies no longer need vaporware marketing strategies. Users do it for them :beer:

All joking aside RedRock needs a new 35mm adapter they have been lapped by everyone in the adapter race.

[trez]

Guy says he gains 3 f-stops using this thing compared to M2. It can't be another DOF adapter from RR unless M2 light loss was >3 f-stops! This is much more than what they claimed...
Heard those RR guys have been working on some kind of time machine. This will slow down the world, allowing you to work with 1/2s shutter speed and still get smooth motion. I would sell my sister for it, too (if I had one)

[monkeyking]

Loose lips sink .........

That was easy.

[HVXSHROPSHIRE]

Lets see a picture or I don't believe you haha

[waefre]

Did anyone else see how the M2 was praised as the next best adapter to the PS technik and everything else was listed as "budget" in the last release of the Creative Cow magazine? It would have made sense had the article been written three years ago. Have these people even used any other adapters?

[Joseph Stunzi]

I thought it said they've used the ultimate and extreme as well? I know those adapters have been in there to the best of my knowledge. There is something to be said about the spinner design of adapters. On the other hand, everyone has their own personal preference and you can decide for yourself in my upcoming adapter shootout!

[Skywalker688]

Damn, everybody is so sensitive. If you don't like this thread, don't read it! And yes, I have been letting out bits of information little by little on purpose. Some of you have figured it out, and some of you haven't.

And from what I understand, it will not be announced in January, it will SHIP in january. I think Redrock had a hard time with announcing products and then not coming out with them for a long time after, so their strategy here is different.

[thekreative]

alright alright... its is an adapter. It allows you to use the lenses that you have for your redrock on a digital slr (either canon or nikon..... )

awesome!

now I can use my lenses from my video camera on my still camera......... but how much??????? and why do my lenses already say canon?

[alekstef]

alright alright... its is an adapter. It allows you to use the lenses that you have for your redrock on a digital slr (either canon or nikon..... )

awesome!

now I can use my lenses from my video camera on my still camera......... but how much??????? and why do my lenses already say canon?
You don't make any sense!?

[DM_rider]

well, it seems pretty obvious what it is. Did the redrock guys say it's ok to let this out?

[Kholi]

LOL. I just saw this thread. Out of Control. Skywalker probably can't contain his excitement but he should. Just so that the RR Team can prep for an official announcement.

Albeit. it definitely is a great new addition to their accessory line-up.

Go RR.

[DREWjoseph82]

...maybe a light kit?

[Joseph Stunzi]

Haha... accessory line-up.. hahaha... not!

[Kholi]

Who KNOWS what it is? Joseph probably knows. I don't.

[Joseph Stunzi]

I don't know a thing Kholi. I'm still looking for my crystal ball somewhere. I can find my Magic 8 ball... just not that fogged up glowing one!

[Zacatac]

When will this "announcement" be released?!?!

[DM_rider]

Read, he basically says what it is without saying.

http://www.redrockmicro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6628

[Taylor Rudd]

We'll see if Mr. Skywalker is allowed to see any other pre-release RR products in the future. Wonder what the RR team thinks about this guy going rogue :)

[Skywalker688]

We will see:-) But I think they were pretty happy to see how excited I was. Once they make the announcement, I will give you some better info on what I found out in my test. Sorry for all of the conjecture, I do have some decent factual info that I am dying to let out!

[Lenilenapi]

The only thing I can think of that would really float my boat would be a 2/3" relay esp one that works with the adapters I already have.

Lenny Levy

[kingwo]

If I took a guess it would be RR M3.

[aurantaurant]

That's why the M2 is on sale for 50% off right now. Trying to clear out the inventory before they release the new one. It's funny how people say the other adapters are better than the M2. I've used all the adapters and the Redrock gives the best image. I could prove it if you'd like me to.

http://www.vimeo.com/2459711

I was going to buy the Letus EX for less light loss, but the image was not as good as the M2.

[PaPa]

I guess "best image" ism completey subjective, because what i see in that video are video laittude, blacks way too crushed, blown out hi lights, major vignetting and soft edges.... :P

[Huy Vu]

Yup, not really anything that the other sub 2k adapters can't do; I'm not seeing the whole "best image" angle here. Where I think the M2 falls short isn't the image (when it's set up properly it's good as anything out there) but the reliability and fast setup. When I used one it was a nightmare trying to get it to work reliably. I can set up my Extreme in about 2 minutes; takes much longer on the M2 and if things are out of wack for some reason, the rod mount design makes it really hard to adjust. If there is a new M3 out, it needs to address a few issues:

1) Needs X-Y adjustment for the GG, and a way to quickly adjust the backfocus.
2) A compact design that incorporates the flip like the Extreme or the upcoming Blade, incorporating a separate rod support module instead of the rod clamp design that it has now. Reliability and ease of setup is key.
3) Ability to stop down to any f-stop and use any shutter speed.

Sharpness is a given, and light loss should be a good compromise between bokeh and light efficiency. Although if the RR team choose to go the way of the G35 in term of light loss, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for some people.

PS: It's funny, about two years ago I heard from a DP friend of mine (who of course was close to the RR team) that the company was working on an M3 design with a vibrating GG. This should be interesting.

[LuckyStudio 13]

The M2 and Sgpro have been built very very robustly. I have experience failures on the other guys but have not heard of an M2 being useless and only heard of ONE case of Sgpro going bezerk.

[reem12]

I agree with you huy vu. Once set up properly the image is decent. but the set up time is not condusive to an indi filmakers workflow. I own both the letus and the sgpro, and these are a dream to set up. the m2 as you've stated was a nightmare to set up when I owned it.

I think my biggest gripe thus far about my experience had to be product support. to be honest i think the image on the letus is similar to that of the m2 minus the severe vignetting from the m2.

[aurantaurant]

There isn't severe vignetting on the M2. And it isn't a pain to set up. It just takes some time getting to know the equipment like everything else. Once that happens it's easy.

I'm an indie filmmaker and it's been the bestest friend to me.

[sean90291]

Well stay tuned everyone! Because I have a question I'm going to post about this unknown product that is unlike any question that has every been asked!

Seriously, my question will blow your minds. And the answers will be, like, infinite!!!

Start the countdown to my question...now.

[Mooose]

The answer is 42

[frobozz]

There isn't severe vignetting on the M2.

Dare you to say that with a wide angle lens on the front of it...

Duncan

[Skywalker688]

The only time I've had vignetting is when the lens you are using has a small rear element. My 14mm rectilinear doesn't vignette at all.

[aurantaurant]

As long as you're zoomed in on the camera properly you're not going to get vignetting.

[frobozz]

As long as you're zoomed in on the camera properly you're not going to get vignetting.


Well, sure, as long as you define "properly" as being "in far enough to clear the vignetting"!!

Try mounting up the old trusty Canon FD 24/2.8 lens, which exhibits Z-E-R-O vignetting on a still camera, and get 84 degrees of horizontal field of view out of it on an M2, and then tell me you're not getting vignetting. I hereby raise it to a double-dog-dare...

(Yes, a workaround is to pay $1000+ for the f/1.4 version with the massive rear element, but that's not a problem with the f/2.8 lens, it's a problem with the M2.)

Duncan

[Skywalker688]

So Duncan, what do you think would solve that issue on the redrock? If it had a collumating lens mount, would that fix it?

[aurantaurant]

I've never used that lens so I wouldn't know about that. My 24mm lens works great.

"Properly" means following the instructions given by redrock to use their hardware. Sometimes you might have to zoom in a little more.

I would however suggest the LETUS Extreme for newbies to 35mm adapters. I suggested one to my ex girlfriend, because most people just want to take it out of the box and go and shoot. The m2 isn't really like that. It's like a horse... you gotta let it get used to your scent and you gotta feed it snacks a bunch before it starts to do what you want. Then when you're robbing a bank you can just whistle and it shows up.

The LEX is like a donkey. Sure it can get Jesus to the stables, but it won't help you outrun the law.

[Skywalker688]

Nice analogy:-)

[frobozz]

So Duncan, what do you think would solve that issue on the redrock? If it had a collumating lens mount, would that fix it?

If that's collimation as in what they usually refer to as "setting the backfocus" then that would help a whole bunch in terms of usability of the product. The existing set-n-test-n-reset-n-retest method is a bear (though as long as you don't change lens mount types, it is a one-time thing, thankfully.) I don't think that will help the vignetting, other than the vignetting which is caused by incorrect backfocus (which is not nearly all the vignetting.)

Duncan

[Skywalker688]

Hmmm. Interesting....

[Skywalker688]

Well what is it in the redrock that you believe causes the vignetting, that the other lens adapters don't have?

[mcgeedigital]

Well stay tuned everyone! Because I have a question I'm going to post about this unknown product that is unlike any question that has every been asked!

Seriously, my question will blow your minds. And the answers will be, like, infinite!!!

Start the countdown to my question...now.

Didn't know Jim Jannard had an account here.....

[Huy Vu]

The LEX is like a donkey. Sure it can get Jesus to the stables, but it won't help you outrun the law.

This just makes no sense to me. You're actually citing the LEX's user friendliness as proof that it's a worse adapter? Apparently the people who prefer not to spend hours tweaking their adapter to get a useable image just aren't hardcore professionals. Time is money and I just can't afford to waste time on set babysitting the gear.

[USLatin]

An Ultimate and Blade competitor? I guess that is exactly what it is... now it may be cheaper than even the Blade but which will be best when they are all out not only remains to be seen but will likely be such a close call that it will be open to personal taste. At least that's what I hope for.

Now if it is a new adapter and it is as good as the Blade but cheaper then that would be even better.

[frobozz]

Well what is it in the redrock that you believe causes the vignetting, that the other lens adapters don't have?

As near as I can tell, they all vignette with wide angle lenses. I am desperately searching for one that doesn't, eagerly eyeing developments noted here in this forum, for instance. The vignetting is heavily affected by the design of the ground glass, so if I had to guess I'd say RedRock did a great job with their design in terms of "film look" (everyone, including me, seems to like their look), without so much noticing what it did with wide angle lenses (or really, any lens with a small rear exit pupil.)

Duncan

[frobozz]

I've never used that lens so I wouldn't know about that. My 24mm lens works great.

"Properly" means following the instructions given by redrock to use their hardware. Sometimes you might have to zoom in a little more.

I would however suggest the LETUS Extreme for newbies to 35mm adapters. I suggested one to my ex girlfriend, because most people just want to take it out of the box and go and shoot. The m2 isn't really like that. It's like a horse... you gotta let it get used to your scent and you gotta feed it snacks a bunch before it starts to do what you want. Then when you're robbing a bank you can just whistle and it shows up.

The LEX is like a donkey. Sure it can get Jesus to the stables, but it won't help you outrun the law.

You can't imagine the time and effort I put into trying to sort out a way for my wide angle lenses to work with my M2. I spent so much time tweaking and retweaking it... none of it helped by the off-center HVX200 sensor of course, argh...

Here was a significant expenditure of time:

http://www.betlikeduncan.com/duncan/redrock/lenscharts/canon_fd/

Comparing to the still images you can see even with "zooming in a little more" and reducing the horizontal field of view, I was still getting pretty awful vignetting on certain lenses. The dark area on the left was the interaction of the HVX200 off-center sensor and the no-room-for-error tunnel through the MicroX.

Duncan

[Skywalker688]

I would agree about the wide angles and small rear lens elements. I have always wondered why that was a problem, and my only thought was that because the cone between the front and rear element was so extreme. I figured that being able to move the lens mount backwards or forwards would help. I think any time you have so much glass in between the image and your chip, it gets complicated. However, I think you will be excited with what Redrock is releasing.

[frobozz]

If you have the backfocus set wrong, you are almost certainly going to increase the vignetting, even if you compensate for the incorrect backfocus by refocusing the lens. (Obviously your ability to compensate runs out at one end of the scale or the other, depending on which way it's off!)

There seem to be two issues at work with the vignetting:

-- Depending on the ground glass design, it might pass light rays through differently, depending on the angle at which they strike the ground glass. Film emulsion doesn't so much care at what angle a photon hits it. You get more extreme angles at the edges of a wide angle lens image, so this vignetting is particularly an issue with wide angle lenses.

-- Depending on the ground glass design, more or less of the unfocused rays of light from the back of the lens might pass through it. Hold a lens up to a bright scene and look at the back of it - you see light coming through into your eye that is not the focused image light that is the main function of the lens. The more transmissive a ground glass is, the more of this "hotspotting" you are going to get. If you're trying for an adapter that doesn't lose too much light, you are going to be fighting this. The hot spot should actually be a worse image, seeing as how it's random light washing out the nice focused light rays, but the problem is the difference in light levels between the two areas. If you meter for the center, the edges look dark, so they look like the worse area. This hotspotting looks worse the smaller the lens' rear element is, regardless of how wide angle it is. On that chart of lenses I posted, note particularly the results from the 50/3.5 and 50/1.8, which have itty bitty rear elements. Horrific hotspotting even though they're not wide angle lenses.

The 24/2.8 is the perfect storm of these two problems - fairly wide at 84 degrees and fairly small rear element (like any wide angle would have, unless it's something like the 24/1.4 monster.) I've shot a whole lifetime of stills through that lens - I use it as my "normal lens" instead of a 50 - so imagine my disappointment to have it peform so wretchedly on a 35mm lens adapter. Nothing wrong with the lens itself, just how it interacts with the adapter.

Duncan

[frobozz]

Have I mentioned spending wayyyyy too much time and energy on this whole thing? I decided to see once and for all what is coming out the back of my 24/2.8 lens. Light rays to film. No ground glass, no achromats, no prisms, just every single photon exiting from the lens captured on film.

I constructed an FD lens mount board for my 4x5 camera, set the backfocus, then exposed some film. (B&W so I could do my own processing at first. If I decide to run through all my lenses with this rig, I'll do it in color.) Here it is scanned in, with a to-scale 24x36mm rectangle superimposed, so you can see what portion of the image is used in a still camera. Note that like any optics, there is vigentting near the physical edges... but that the usable area is well inside those edges:

http://www.betlikeduncan.com/duncan/redrock/lenscharts/canon_fd/lenscircles/24_28_boxed.jpg

For comparison, I also did the 24/1.4. Indeed, slightly less vignetting, but still nowhere near the usable image area anyway.

http://www.betlikeduncan.com/duncan/redrock/lenscharts/canon_fd/lenscircles/24_14_boxed.jpg

(My son puts up with all my weird projects like a trooper...)

Duncan

[aurantaurant]

Duncan you have a lot of sweet lenses.

[dlang]

alright skywalker how much are you getting paid for this thread??(: These guys know us so well, I've seen some far more interesting topics with waaay less responses, yet this one has managed to acquire 10 pages in 2 days...buzzzz is all I gotta say, it's the curiosity that gets us, almost like a suspense thriller(;

[Skywalker688]

I wish they were paying me in redrock products:-) I am just a customer who apparently spent too much time asking questions:-)

The good news is that I have been assured that the official announcement will be coming very very soon...

[frobozz]

Duncan you have a lot of sweet lenses.

I've been shooting through Canon FD glass (and slowly acquiring more of it!) for over 30 years. I've always imagined how wonderful it would be to be able to shoot movies through them, but always figured that was not to be. Then along came the M2 and others! Oh joy oh joy! But the problem is that I'm a complete wide angle fanatic, and those turn out to be the Achilles' Heel of the current crop of adapters.

I'm very used to the gorgeous edge-to-edge clean bright image I get through these lenses and it just killed me to see the vignette/hotspot images that resulted through the M2. So I sold it again a while back (the stupid off-axis CCD HVX200 also) and am back in "it was not meant to be" mode until equipment exists that can do right by my lenses. Which is why I'm here - looking, researching and hoping, ever hoping.

Duncan

[hoarp001]

Just for the record Frobozz, I managed to use FD 24mm on my SGpro no problems (before it was stolen). Will be trying it out on the blade next week though, so il let you know.

[frobozz]

Yes, I've been eagerly awaiting the results of people testing the Blade, as the example footage I've seen looks remarkably problem-free. I'm glad someone actually has a 24/2.8 to try on it.

It's also worth pointing out that I'm incredibly picky about this and footage that most people are quite happy with simply drives me up the wall. It completely baffles me when people go out of their way to add vignetting to footage! (I almost can't watch the BBC show Top Gear sometimes for all the post-vignetting they do.)

Duncan

[hoarp001]

I had a 24 2.8 stolen, but the replacment is in the post now. Il stick it on the blade for you.

I quite like the top gear vignetting...

[frobozz]

I had a 24 2.8 stolen, but the replacment is in the post now. Il stick it on the blade for you.

I appreciate that! I'll also repeat my standing offer: if anyone even remotely near Chicago has an FD-mounted 35mm adapter that they think doesn't vignette, and it's one I haven't tried before, let's get together with your adapter and my super-wide lenses and put it through its paces. For established adapter companies who have a new design they think won't vignette, I will gladly lend you any lens you want to test out, by mailing it to you. I am determined to do what it takes to find an adapter I can use... and I'm equally determined not to take it on faith this time that the problems can be sorted out through application of enough tweaking. I want to see it before I buy something.


I quite like the top gear vignetting...

Like I said, I'm weird that way. Vignetting is a huge pet peeve for me. But even if you like it, you'd want to add it in post like Top Gear (who use it to highlight stuff wherever it is in the frame), rather than having it be dead centered in every frame you shoot, I'd think.

Duncan

[Toenis]

As we see a 50% price drop on the original M2 stock we can surely assume that the ten year old design get's updated...

[Joseph Stunzi]

Too bad the design is not ten years old.

[aurantaurant]

If I was hired to sit out in the woods and get footage of animals then I'd probably not want the vignetting, but I like it for my stuff. It makes it feel more cinematic.

Duncan I'd love to see a documentary on your quest for zero vignetting.

[[gk]]

Duncan,
- you can remove a good portion of vignettes in post if not everything down to the tollerance of below 1% inaccuracy.

I wrote a small entrance to it here ( not done as i still havent added the control layer for contrast/exposure.
You can remove vignettes easily like this and the good part is you grab the data from the vignette and dont have to eyeball.

http://www.droschler.dk/Tut-Vignette_removal.html

as said stillwriting on it, but it should give you a hint doing it the proper way via Legacy.

If your argument is that an adaptor has to be flawless and give a nice uniform image no matter lens, then wait till someone builds one or make one yourself.
In the meantime you can use post tricks to get your footage going!

[frobozz]

If I was hired to sit out in the woods and get footage of animals then I'd probably not want the vignetting, but I like it for my stuff. It makes it feel more cinematic.

Really? The last time cinema cameras and lenses had vignetting was back before movies had sound! Canon spent a whole bunch of time and money to make these lenses produce a flawless image, it just kills me to do any less with them. But again, I realize I'm weird that way.

Duncan

[aurantaurant]

I like my footage how I like my women. Real dirty.

[[gk]]

:o

[DM_rider]

it's gone from a new product, to talking about lenses and vignetting, haha.

[Skywalker688]

Well, I suppose the point is to create something that will make Duncan happy. Anybody can add vignetting to something, but it would be nice to start without it in your image! Hopefully the blade does that, and I will test the redrock for you when it comes out.

Usually when I get vignetting with my 28mm, I slap on a 35mm and back up 5 feet.

[Joseph Stunzi]

I'll be testing 7 adapters at the end of January. Including the blade, g35, ultimate, M2, and maybe a few new things that you don't know about yet!

[frobozz]

Well, I suppose the point is to create something that will make Duncan happy. Anybody can add vignetting to something, but it would be nice to start without it in your image! Hopefully the blade does that, and I will test the redrock for you when it comes out.

Usually when I get vignetting with my 28mm, I slap on a 35mm and back up 5 feet.

Yes, I believe that should be the goal of all these adapter manufacturers: create something that makes Duncan happy! I will also be accepting bids as to who will pay me the most to use one of their products :-)

But you have it exactly right: it's very easy to add effects such as vignetting in post, much better to start out with a clean image in the camera.

The "use a longer lens and back up" trick works when you're only down into the mild wide angles, and it's completely a field-of-view issue (assuming you have the room to back up!) But the rectlinear distortion of wide angles from about 24mm down has its own character that isn't just a matter of how much of the FOV is in the frame. And the full-frame fisheyes (15mm in Canon FD) just look like bad barrel distortion unless you truly get the image all the way to the edge.

Duncan

[frobozz]

Here's a quick and imperfect example of where the ultra-wide lens gives a perspective that isn't doable by just backing up with a longer lens. It's a snippet of footage from some playing around I was doing when I did all those lens tests. As someone else pointed out, the 14mm Canon is inexplicably decent in terms of vignetting, despite being insanely wide and not having all that big a rear lens element... but it does have it still to a level that annoys me, as you can see (everything is brighter the more in the center it is.)

http://www.betlikeduncan.com/duncan/redrock/lenscharts/canon_fd/misc/doggiecam_14_28.mov

(Warning: that's 48MB!)

Duncan

[PaPa]

Well, I suppose the point is to create something that will make Duncan happy. Anybody can add vignetting to something, but it would be nice to start without it in your image! Hopefully the blade does that, and I will test the redrock for you when it comes out.

Usually when I get vignetting with my 28mm, I slap on a 35mm and back up 5 feet.

I had basically null vignetting with a 24mm lens on the blade beta. So rest assured, vignetting will be a thing of the past. Looking at a waveform, there was only slight dipping on the very edges of the wave. visually, you really cannot notice it. Even panning across a white surface or sky ( zoomed in to academy frame )

So yeah, no worries there. But ill stop here to avoid making this a blade thread :P.

[Skywalker688]

I agree that rectilinear distortion is unique at the wide ends, but I thought we were mainly dealing with the 28mm lens that had a problem? I wouldn't really say there's much of a different look from the 28 to the 35 when it comes to that.

Now if we were talking about an Arri 8R, that's a little different. By the way, if you ever get a chance, that's a hell of a lens!

[LuckyStudio 13]

Be funny to read this thread in two years, where there will be no spinning, vibrating, oscillating, radiating mechanism, no light loss, no flip, no magnification in field of view, no batteries, no motors, no belts, getting a SLR "full frame" image on the Red Scarlet FF35.

[frobozz]

I agree that rectilinear distortion is unique at the wide ends, but I thought we were mainly dealing with the 28mm lens that had a problem? I wouldn't really say there's much of a different look from the 28 to the 35 when it comes to that.

Now if we were talking about an Arri 8R, that's a little different. By the way, if you ever get a chance, that's a hell of a lens!

Well, the 24/2.8 is the one I've been talking about, and it's definitely the start of the distortion lenses as you go wider. You're right, the 28 and 35mm lenses may as well be a 50mm set farther back, and with a 50 you can get much bigger apertures.

Duncan

[Luis Caffesse]

Guy says he gains 3 f-stops using this thing compared to M2. It can't be another DOF adapter from RR unless M2 light loss was >3 f-stops! This is much more than what they claimed...

Good point.

[astigmatic]

I appreciate that! I'll also repeat my standing offer: if anyone even remotely near Chicago has an FD-mounted 35mm adapter that they think doesn't vignette, and it's one I haven't tried before, let's get together with your adapter and my super-wide lenses and put it through its paces. For established adapter companies who have a new design they think won't vignette, I will gladly lend you any lens you want to test out, by mailing it to you. I am determined to do what it takes to find an adapter I can use... and I'm equally determined not to take it on faith this time that the problems can be sorted out through application of enough tweaking. I want to see it before I buy something.



Like I said, I'm weird that way. Vignetting is a huge pet peeve for me. But even if you like it, you'd want to add it in post like Top Gear (who use it to highlight stuff wherever it is in the frame), rather than having it be dead centered in every frame you shoot, I'd think.

Duncan

the brevis with flip adapter doens't vignette on my fd 28 f/2.0 and I think is pretty darn good with my 24 f/28 . I haven't tried wider though.

[[gk]]

I don't see why you just dont fix that in post Duncan.
I know you want a razor sharp image, but there is nothing in that run over field deal that cant be completly fixed post.

[frobozz]

;1495809']I don't see why you just dont fix that in post Duncan.
I know you want a razor sharp image, but there is nothing in that run over field deal that cant be completly fixed post.

I shouldn't have to spend all my time fixing that in post - I don't need to photoshop my still pictures (after scanning them in) to fix any flaws. If I had a lens that exhibited that flaw on my still camera I would get rid of it and get a better lens. Same goes for 35mm adapters. (Which is not to minimize your cool post-fix for vignetting! Very handy. I would simply have to do that to *all* my footage and it doesn't seem worth it...)

Duncan

[Skywalker688]

I agree...you shouldn't have to fix it in post, that should be a last resort. And sorry Duncan, I was thinking you meant the 28mm...this thread got so long I forgot it was the 24mm!

As for the guy commenting on the 3 stops thing...I will have good proof for you when the time comes, which is independent of Redrock.

[Toenis]

Can I use FD lens on it and does it do 25fps ;)...

[djgvinny]

i forgot what is this tread about again ???? :huh:

[Taylor Rudd]

Figments. All about figments :)

[TimurCivan]

and then some imaginary figments of the figments....

[Noel Evans]

Actually it felt more like having wind blown up my trousers.

[CB_Radio]

Actually it felt more like having wind blown up my trousers.

Smells more like when wind is blowing out of my trousers.

Wow, what an amazing new product. Thanks for such an awesome thread skywalker. yawn....

[Skywalker688]

Keep goading me on for more info...I've already given more than I should have at this point:-)

I guess I assumed the announcement would be coming very soon, and I could elaborate! Sorry guys and gals! You'll have to wait a few more days!

[Toenis]

Keep goading me on for more info...!

So what about using Canon FD lens on it?

T

[TimurCivan]

I already told you... if its lame... I'm banning you.

;)

[Noel Evans]

I already told you... if its lame... I'm banning you.

;)

I vote yes to this proposition.

[IanD]

Show me the monkey already.

[Essami]

Keep goading me on for more info...

OK! Ten questions:

1) Why were you given this product to play with?

2) What material is it mainly constructed from?

3) Does it have batteries?

4) Is it made in USA?

5) Did you use it with various cameras or just one?

6) Will it be more affordable as other products its competing with?

7) Will people buying a discounted RRM2 be all "gosh, should've waited!" mid January?

8) Should I hold off until this product is launched before buying an SG Blade?

9) Will you buy/get one?

10) Merry christmas and a happy new year!!!

:)

Sami

[Postmaster]

Probably an adapter without ground glass that is using only an air image like vintage cameras..

[TimurCivan]

he's claiming three stops of sensitivity.

that's night vision like amplification. so a new GG won't give that much sensitivity.

either its a new camera. (possible... actually)
or, an ultra fast gg.... that has 100% transmission....

[Tracey Lee]

he's claiming three stops of sensitivity.

that's night vision like amplification. so a new GG won't give that much sensitivity.

either its a new camera. (possible... actually)
or, an ultra fast gg.... that has 100% transmission....

...woah, if it's a new camera then it's over for everyone else.

[Tracey Lee]

Probably a variation on Dan Danicaou's optical GG. That thing had no lightloss. Too bad it never made it to market.

I mean its gotta be a end all be all GG if he needed less light to shoot with...

Timur, did Dan's adapter have a gg?

[Skywalker688]

OK! Ten questions:

1) Why were you given this product to play with?

2) What material is it mainly constructed from?

3) Does it have batteries?

4) Is it made in USA?

5) Did you use it with various cameras or just one?

6) Will it be more affordable as other products its competing with?

7) Will people buying a discounted RRM2 be all "gosh, should've waited!" mid January?

8) Should I hold off until this product is launched before buying an SG Blade?

9) Will you buy/get one?

10) Merry christmas and a happy new year!!!

1. I was able to use it because I am also a writer for several webzines and film mags, and I've been a redrock user myself for a few years. At least, I think that's why!

2. I was using the prototype, so I'm not sure.

3. It does have batteries.

4. I assume that all redrock products are made in the USA.

5. I used the item with an HVX200.

6. Yes.

7. Possibly, but there will be upgrades available for existing redrock owners.

8. This is a silly question. If you like the blade, you should buy it. Redrock has always been the leader in giving microbudget filmmakers the tools they need, including giving out the plans to build it if you can't afford it! If you can afford the blade, and you like it, buy it. I am simply telling you what my experience has been with this new product.

9. I will be buying at least one.

10. Thanks for the holiday wishes, and spread them all around.

[Skywalker688]

he's claiming three stops of sensitivity.

that's night vision like amplification. so a new GG won't give that much sensitivity.

I have claimed that compared to their existing product, the new one, when set up on the camera, is 3 stops faster. That is from running two cameras (one with the existing product, and one with the new) and trying to match them up, and also using light meter readings, which I will release when the time comes.

[Kegan]

Well, if its to be set up ON the camera...then it isn't a camera. I won't further speculate though - I'll wait for the official announcement.

-Kegan

[811productions]

I just bought a redrock micro setup 3 weeks ago...am I gonna be wishing I didn't now? Bought the iphone 3 weeks before they announced the 3g version, bought 2 hvx-200's a month before the 200a's came out.

[ZazaCast]

I just bought a redrock micro setup 3 weeks ago...am I gonna be wishing I didn't now? Bought the iphone 3 weeks before they announced the 3g version, bought 2 hvx-200's a month before the 200a's came out.

Please tell us what you're going to buy next so we can all hold-off! :beer:

[Will Clegg]

AJ, I still don't understand how it gains three stops... My M2 with the microX only loses about two stops total from the bare HVX. Does your current setup lose more light than this? and are you using the cinescreen II that was released in October? Or are you comparing the prototype product to the old cinescreen?

[Skywalker688]

I do have the latest cinescreen. Believe me, I was as shocked as you are. I rate the current redrock at 80ASA, and the new product is somewhere between 250 and 320ASA. My light meter doesn't have a stop between there, so I'm not sure exactly where it lands. So if you do the math, it's at least 2.75 stops...It's possible that you don't have to zoom in quite as far as you do with the microX setup, which could help.

[frobozz]

AJ, I still don't understand how it gains three stops... My M2 with the microX only loses about two stops total from the bare HVX.

Well, see, he had the 55/1.2 on the new product and the 300/5.6 on the old one, and...

:-)

Duncan

[Will Clegg]

80 to 160 = one stop. 160 to 320 = one stop

I count two stops.

[Barry_Green]

And 250 = 1.5 stops, so you're talking about between 1.5 and 2 stops better.

[Postmaster]

That means it´s close to the LEX.

Frank

[Jus10m]

I re-read the thread looking for the date that we can stop guessing, but didn't see it. Do we have a date to look forward to so I don't have to keep refreshing this thread every 15 minutes? :P

[Joseph Stunzi]

I'd say look for a new thread on here... and a link to it in a post in this thread

[Skywalker688]

And 250 = 1.5 stops, so you're talking about between 1.5 and 2 stops better.

Ah...yes...My mistake. So sorry for that. I confused my math on the ASA scale. But it is still quite amazing, and if it's like the LEX, that's a good thing, because the redrock costs less, and has other features.

And from what I understand, there will be upgrades available for existing M2 owners, meaning it would cost even less if you are already an owner.

[PaPa]

when are we going to know exactly what this new adapter is?

[Joseph Stunzi]

This month?

[chagchag]

Meh...

if all AJ ever used is redrock gear, then of course he'll be thrilled about a new adapter that lose less light. As was I when I first used my LEX and saw all the issues of the M2 gone (at the expence of bokeh and higher shutterspeed, but still, never looked back)

Personally I don't expect too much of this, when our only source doesn't even know ASA-steps... No offence AJ.

I guess we'll see when it's here and compared to competing products.

If I sound like a sour-puss it is because back when I experienced all the known issues with my M2 (severe vignetting, poor e2e and general sharpnes etc), the feedback from Redrock was allways that there was something wrong with my other equipment (lenses ie) and setup ("get new lenses", "zoom in further" etc.)
So I have some trust-issues with Redrock.

The Mattebox is awesome though (the wait on the other hand... :-( )

[wartez]

It seems as though the half priced M2 is a reaction to AJ's leak. I'm guessing they are going to unload as many M2's as they can before making any announcements...

I'd bet we won't hear anything until January or later but I hope I'm wrong!

[CB_Radio]

I rate the current redrock at 80ASA, and the new product is somewhere between 250 and 320ASA. My light meter doesn't have a stop between there, so I'm not sure exactly where it lands.

So if you do the math, it's at least 2.75 stops...

LOL Brilliant!

[jdkhanlian]

maybe somehow they have designed interchangeable ground glass. you could use the one with good bokeh when you have enough light, or swap it out for another gg in situations where you need an extra stops or two of light. i actually doubt it will be this from some of the clues that have been given, but i don't think it's a bad idea.

[Skywalker688]

If I sound like a sour-puss it is because back when I experienced all the known issues with my M2 (severe vignetting, poor e2e and general sharpnes etc), the feedback from Redrock was allways that there was something wrong with my other equipment (lenses ie) and setup ("get new lenses", "zoom in further" etc.)
So I have some trust-issues with Redrock.

Well not to further infuriate you, but I never had those issues with my redrock, other than the light loss, and vignetting on only one lens. So there could be some truth to what redrock told you...

And as far as me not knowing my ASA scale, I am a director, not a DP. My DP, god love him, is the one who gave me the ASA info. But it is true that to match the two cameras, the lenses were 3 stops apart.

I will say again, if you love the LEX, congrats. It's a nice item. I think that whatever adapter you buy, you end up getting used to it, and therefore some loyalty comes with that. I am definitely loyal to Redrock, but mainly because of their commitment to putting these tools in our hands for so much less. When I first came across the redrock, it was when the only other option was the P&S. I think companies that challenge the maxim that filmmaking tools should be cost prohibitive to industry outsiders should be supported by all who wish to make great films. (that includes companies like Brevis, Letus, Red!)

[frobozz]

maybe somehow they have designed interchangeable ground glass.

They wouldn't dare do that, unless they also changed the way it was mounted - can you imagine the nightmare that would be involved in swapping out the GG with the existing collet system that is also providing the flange focal distance setting?!

Duncan

[Skywalker688]

Agreed. And, no, that's not what they've done.

[jenningsp]

i bet it's some kind of optical or digital viewfinder. optical means a beam splitter. so more light loss.. unless they went the rotating mirror route.. that would be cool.... but it'd mess with shutter speeds unless they went all out and made a variable one... hmmm that would be awesome!

i hope it's a variable rotating mirror viewfinder attachment!

[Skywalker688]

That is an awesome, Tesla-like wish, and I love it. But that's not it:-)

[Tomas Riuka]

I'd say this thread is RED style :D

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

RED style is super lame. All it does is make the tech geeks... geekier, and the real cam ops who use what is available to them now... get frustrated that their time was wasted. Someone make this a sticky when something of value is revealed.

[CB_Radio]

My DP, god love him, is the one who gave me the ASA info. But it is true that to match the two cameras, the lenses were 3 stops apart.

You do realize that just because 5.6 - 2.8 = 2.8, it doesn't mean that the difference between F-5.6 and f-2.8 is 2.8 stops.

Just checking

[CB_Radio]

I am a director, not a DP.

Now's no time to sell yourself short:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1267435/

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/40701/1229506029.jpg (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1901239552/nm1229279)

[Skywalker688]

Ha ha ha! My single actual credit as a cinematographer. Well sniffed out. But if you look at the rest of my imdb page, you will find many other credits for other things. As with many low budget filmmakers, I tend to play many roles.


You do realize that just because 5.6 - 2.8 = 2.8, it doesn't mean that the difference between F-5.6 and f-2.8 is 2.8 stops.

And yes, I do know this. As I stated quite clearly, it was a mistake, and the math was wrong. I do not deny that, nor do I consider myself nearly as smart as you fine folks. Feel free to continue to berate me for it, a rookie mistake.

[chagchag]

Well not to further infuriate you, but I never had those issues with my redrock, other than the light loss, and vignetting on only one lens. So there could be some truth to what redrock told you...



Nah, I have had none of those issues with either my LEX, my friends brevis, nor on my DSLR or on RED, so in actuallity, there is basically no truth in it.

Also, I don't love my LEX. I try not to love equipment unless it is absolutely perfect, and none ever is. Fanboy'ing makes you blind, and that's hardly what you want as a filmmaker.

[Skywalker688]

No worries. I've heard others who've had problems as well, perhaps I was just lucky.

This is a quote from Andrew Lee at Redrock:


Much of the assembly and manufacturing is done, it's just a few variables to be ironed out and we can announce everything. Keep in mind, when we DO announce what we're announcing, we'll have a 100% certain ship date, because we'll have them in stock and ready to go!

[Will Clegg]

Hi Guys,

Sorry, this is a bit of a non answer...

Much of the assembly and manufacturing is done, it's just a few variables to be ironed out and we can announce everything. Keep in mind, when we DO announce what we're announcing, we'll have a 100% certain ship date, because we'll have them in stock and ready to go!

Cheers!Straight from Andrew Lee over at the redrock forum (http://redrockmicro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6628&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30). After the matte box debacle, I doubt redrock will ever again announce a product before it is ready to ship (which is absolutely the right way to do it).

I am actually quite satisfied with the light loss on my current M2 combo with the new cinescreen - I am really hoping for an easy solution for collimation on this new product. That will seal the deal for me.


EDIT:: AJ, you beat me to it.

[pia12254]

Sooo AJ...say someone was about to sell their current Redrock/MicroX setup. Would it be better to keep that current setup and modify it or just sell it and put the money towards a "Redrock Mysterium 3000" when it comes out?

Hypothetically speaking of course! :-D

-D

[Skywalker688]

D...check your PM...

[atlfilmguy]

I just bought a redrock micro setup 3 weeks ago...am I gonna be wishing I didn't now? Bought the iphone 3 weeks before they announced the 3g version, bought 2 hvx-200's a month before the 200a's came out.


Please tell us what you're going to buy next so we can all hold-off! :beer:


Yes please let us know what to avoid, FUNNIEST response here.

[bvalente]

Will - You will be pleased. Once we have all the info together, we'll get all the details to everyone. As discussed here, we announce products when they are ready to ship.

B

[TimurCivan]

its not thaty crazy. The hpx170 is 500 ISO.

with a half stop lightloss that puts it at a 320 like skywlker said. nothing insane.

[PaPa]

and then there is the zoom factor to consider as well.

[dantewaters]

Lets see what comes of these claims hopefully it's not lame... I got my eyes right now on the Blade.

[ChristianScott]

Why do people continue to post in this thread ?? doh !

[PaPa]

What is going on with this thing?

[bvalente]

Announcement by end of January.

B

[Zacatac]

Ahhh SOOO Long!

[KCIRBUKUBRICK]

Balls! I'm canceling my M2 purchase!

[Jay Laville]

Balls! I'm canceling my M2 purchase!


Very good idea imo :thumbup: wait to see what they release end of month, might be an addition or could be a whole new unit altogether

[PaPa]

hehe.

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

i knew something was up when the old ones were clearing out at half price. You know?

[sinapps]

not many days left in January...

[Will Clegg]

I believe they are planning on an announcement tomorrow (Friday).

[Jay Laville]

we should place bets and guess what it is, winner gets a new modified redrock adapter or better flip lens which loses less light or a grizzly bear on every redrock order or whatever it turns out to be...

[PaPa]

Jan 29th. I call it the end of January :P

[zacuto]

you are starting to sound like my wife.

[Loren Simons]

Jan 29th. I call it the end of January :P

I'm with ya too very curious

[Psychovideo]

So what is this thing?!!!!!

[hoarp001]

Late.

[Dillon Novak]

i think we're a little past the christmas shuffle..



I do know that the item is ready to go...they could be shipping them right now, but they don't want to get lost in the christmas shuffle. So January it will be available. I am hoping that they announce it soon, but maybe they are waiting until the day they can be ordered, since everyone got so pissed about the mattebox. All I can say is that there are a lot of great features, and I expected them to double the price. When Brian told me the price would be the same, I was shocked.

[DM_rider]

They're saying tomorrow afternoon. 6 new products and a new adapter!

http://www.redrockmicro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6628&start=120

[LuckyStudio 13]

probably a bunch of new baseplate complete system crap for DSLR.

[USLatin]

I wonder what the new adapter will be like... Ultimate, SGblade... the game is much different since the M2 first broke into the scene.... though you could say it was the first to get the new era of affordable adapters started. Better be good Brian :)

[Leo Versola]

Beeeoootiful, just beautiful. Gotta love how everything comes in waves. Timing sucks for all those [cough, cough] X-Brand adapter buyers who maybe would have waited to purchase had they been given just a little more advance notice or hint on what was being released.

C'est la vie, I suppose...

[naavt]

I just bought the new SgBlade and even if I'm one of the X-Brand buyers that didn't wait, I'm almost certain that I've made the best price/quality choice available, no matter what Redrock is announcing today!

But nonetheless, I will keep an eye on todays announcement. Who knows if I'm wrong!

[Ted Ramasola]

Its 2:30 AM here AND I AM NOT SLEEPING.... yet........ till ... they ... announce.... DARN IT! ....my tylenol PM is kickin ...in

[Zzx4k]

hmmmm

[bvalente]

Hi everyone

Stay tuned, news today for sure.

We are up to 7 new products to be announced. If you don't want to hang around and keep pushing the reload button you can also subscribe to our newsletter on our home page at www.redrockmicro.com and we will be pushing out the news as well.



Brian

[USLatin]

2:48pm LA time... any time now I suppose.

[RightMind]

Hello???

[hungrych]

6:15 Eastern and it's dark outside...

[trez]

It's been 31st here for half an hour and still nothing... Think I'm going to bed...

[USLatin]

It's been 31st here for half an hour and still nothing... Think I'm going to bed...

That sux... must feel like April fools.

[trez]

That sux... must feel like April fools.

Damn right! Now that they've made a fool of me I can wait another hour or two :)
Waiting for something that has 'red' in its name has become a habit for me...

[USLatin]

Red? I must have missed that announcement.

[LuckyStudio 13]

*cricket** I am sure its gonna be later on today (pacific time).

[USLatin]

only about 1hs and 1/2 left on the pacific time work day, it is 4:26pm already

[DM_rider]

Watch this page for the announcements

http://redrockmicro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43739#43739

[Joseph Stunzi]

Announcement can be found on Redrock's forum... or here on DVXuser... http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1535038

[LuckyStudio 13]

I like that Redrock maintained the lunchbox design that keeps the adapter rock solid on the rails. I hope the new FF will have a non glued on accessory port. What about Live view for Nikon Lenses as well ?

[Joseph Stunzi]

Live View involves getting the codes for the lens protocol. Which means either talking to the manufacturer... or reverse engineering it yourself. So... I think that might be some time before we see that. I dunno though!

[Leo Versola]

I just bought the new SgBlade and even if I'm one of the X-Brand buyers that didn't wait, I'm almost certain that I've made the best price/quality choice available, no matter what Redrock is announcing today

I'm with you on this 110%. For me, the SGBlade offers everything I've wanted in an adapter to date:

1) High aperture and shutter speed ability
2) Low light loss
3) Interchangeable screens
4) XY axis adjustment
5) Backfocus/collimation adjustment
6) Flipped image
7) Multiple power options

If the SGBlade delivers on reliability and picture quality, then Wayne's (and us) have a real winner in our hands...

The Letus Extreme was really good to me for the year I had it; I made three films (one Filmfest winner) while pushing it to its limits. I couldn't justify the Ultimate at 3+ times the cost and the SGBlade looks like it will deliver much of the same feature sets while costing a little more than the LEX did.

I've also got a February shoot schedule lined up that I'm already cutting it close on, so it's onward and upwards with the SGBlade regardless. I'm really looking forward to putting it through the paces.

Bottom line is, competition is healthy and only benefits us consumers in the long run with better and better products to work with. Besides, my rig includes some Redrock and Cinevate products anyway :-) And I'm sure we'll all be buying some of the new stuff from all of them soon enough.

Happy shooting everyone!

[USLatin]

Yea guys... It looks like aside for the Live Lens, which would be really sweet especially with lenses such as the Tokina 11-16mm, there really isn't much if anything at all that any other adapter will have on the SGBlade... other than perhaps a tad of speed? But I am not ready to believe a claim like that, not till there are actual reviews on it insted of newspaper sounding marketing material...

Now I want to believe it, Red Rock is a brand that deserves much love from the indie adapter world. They were a real big game changer back in the days when affordable adapters first started blowing up. As we all know and their stuff is solid, and often real bargains... their FF and MB continue to be insane deals with little competition if any.

But 1/2 stop loss? Well... it sounds like a tad of a stretch, doesn't it? Don't get me wrong, I am not up with the current speed ratings of the Ultimate or SGblade, but I will wait and see. It would be real sweet if it turns out to be an accurate measure, a crazy cool one if the look isn't drastically changed... the M2 look is VERY pleasing to my eyes.

What is the SGblade with the faster GG rated at speed wise?

I am really digging the live lens thing, and also liking the quick release adapter thing for the FF on the thicker rails.

FOOTAGE please! If there is some already then please put the link on the first post.

Congrats Brian and Co. on the new products.

[hoarp001]

Live View involves getting the codes for the lens protocol. Which means either talking to the manufacturer... or reverse engineering it yourself. So... I think that might be some time before we see that. I dunno though!


Its not that hard, one of the new hocus focus products can electrnicaly control broadcast lenses, its a pretty simple matter of just putting the right voltage over the right pins. Its not too hard....

[LuckyStudio 13]

Does the M2 Encore have X/Y adjustment ?

[Will Clegg]

Brian said in the RR forum that it would be unnecessary because the optics are a lot wider. Offset issues should be a thing of the past.

[Skywalker688]

I will try to get a copy of the footage I shot back in December from the editor. The reason I started the post was because of how amazed I was with the lack of light loss, so I can easily say that it's the best I've ever had my hands on.

Not that this will help much, but here's a still taken showing the real light setup, and what we were seeing in the monitor...you can see that they are almost exactly the same....

[David Odell]

That isn't saying much Luke...

There could be a 4k light on that dude ;)

So please upload some footage and share with us.

Thanks

[Skywalker688]

I'll definitely get the footage soon...But we were shooting with 2 iks and 2 650s... The point of this shot is looking at how the light levels are the same in the monitor as they are by eye...I am sure you remember the days of throwing a 2k on the wall and having it look like a flashlight in the monitor...

[Dillon Novak]

sneaky sneaky, i bet you were sent by redrock during the Blade release to make sure that not everybody bought a blade instead of a m2encore.

[Skywalker688]

Ha ha. The evil corporations! Not really. I pleaded to borrow the encore because I had a two camera shoot. Turned out, I couldn't match the two cameras because of how different the light intake was, so it became a one camera shoot anyways!

[Kholi]

Redrock walks on it's own, to be honest. Nobody asks for SG in Los Angeles. It's always been Redrock, Letus and P+S and honestly, P+S is pretty dead around here.

The Extreme and Ultimate reign in my neck of the woods and when Redrock's new products hit the Press Pages and their already established venues it's going to be asked for all over again... Which is why I'm investing in both an M2 Encore full setup and a Letus Relay system to go with my Ultimate, despite the fact that I do not own an HPX500 or similar.

That's just I!

In the end, they're all really great with trade-offs and differences. Pick your weapon and use it well.

[David Odell]

Luke:

Have you any comments about the bokeh? Any improvements compared with the old one?

Since al adapters which released that acclaim 1/2 light loss there has been questions about the bokeh. SGpro/Blade with Razor2 has managed a specific one that sells for its look.

How about this new one?

[Skywalker688]

Agreed!

[Kholi]

True Film Like Bokeh = Soft overall image, slow adapter

Sharp Image = Slight Bokeh trade-off

Pick one.

[Skywalker688]

Have you any comments about the bokeh? Any improvements compared with the old one?

Since al adapters which released that acclaim 1/2 light loss there has been questions about the bokeh. SGpro/Blade with Razor2 has managed a specific one that sells for its look.

How about this new one?

I think the bokeh with the Encore is definitely improved. I started noticing Bokeh differences between my different lenses, where I never saw the differences previously.

[David Odell]

So that's more or less it then? Since the adapters are quite few around these days, I think the bokeh should be a big priority...

Let's see some clips and then discuss.

[Skywalker688]

True Film Like Bokeh = Soft overall image, slow adapter

Sharp Image = Slight Bokeh trade-off

Pick one.

I also don't think there is that tradeoff anymore. The new adapter allows for much more sharpness because you don't have to shoot wide open.

[bvalente]

Hi everyone

Just to clarify a few things. Skywalker I'm not sure I would call what you were using the m2e - it was a proto we had kicking around for over a year and had some minor optics upgrades. The release m2e is much different, with entirely new guts. So i'd say yours is probably closer to an M2 plus. But nonetheless I know you saw noticeable improvements.

On the x-y adjustments, that is still there as part of the microX Encore accessory, so you do still have that capability if needed. We did increase the horizontal size of the optics quite a bit (roughly 30%) which should minimize the need.

Hope that helps


Brian

[USLatin]

Brian, when will we see actual footage?

I am not sure it really wouldn't be a very wise thing to do for some to hold off till the Encore's release without footage. There are many people jumping into an SGblade single adapter investment, who you could otherwise share with SG, but only if you had a third party test it real quick.

We need to see it...

[bvalente]

I am not sure it really wouldn't be a very wise thing to do for some to hold off till ...e

um,... I'm not sure whether to say yes or no with so many double negatives!

At any rate, footage is next up.


B

[USLatin]

um,... I'm not sure whether to say yes or no with so many double negatives!

At any rate, footage is next up.


B

I wonder if waiting for the Encore instead of getting a Blade now would be something people would regret.


There, clarifikated it for ya. It really wasn't directed at you though. I am looking for the best value and wondering what others in my position are thinking about doing after your announcement.

When will this footage be up Brian? And will it be your footage or 3rd party?

[bvalente]

I'm sure a combination of both USLatin. We've already had a big response in orders so once it ships Feb 15th I think you'll see plenty of third party (we are working on projects in the interim)


B

[singleframe]

redrock, really into the new offerings...love your site. BUT, is it just me, or does the BLACK background really hurt anyone else's eyes when reading more than a page or so??

i found the same effects when i come across other sites that have a black b-ground and white text.

just a rant i guess...
nevertheless, i think i might go for the http://www.redrockmicro.com/cartpics/indiebundlemed.jpg (http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.472981/it.A/id.152/.f?sc=2&category=9) M2 Indie Bundle - HD Edition for Nikon Lenses (http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.472981/it.A/id.152/.f?sc=2&category=9)

[bvalente]

singleframe, we're moving away from black. As you can see we have moved our catalog to a white background. Thanks for pointing that out


Brian

[Tim Naylor]

I just bought the new SgBlade and even if I'm one of the X-Brand buyers that didn't wait, I'm almost certain that I've made the best price/quality choice available, no matter what Redrock is announcing today!

But nonetheless, I will keep an eye on todays announcement. Who knows if I'm wrong!


Wait till someone has the time to use them both under similar circumstances. Charts are fun and all but the end of the day, I want to hear a field report on both. They both have things I like and don't like.

No mention of X/Y on RR. No Big Block mount on SG. So which is better? Who knows until you really take it through it's paces.

Please someone do the oven / fridge test. See if it runs for half an hour at 110 degrees in the oven and half an hour in the freezer. Now this isn't asking too much. It's Death Valley and a day in Vermont simulation. But you'll be surprised what gear fails. I know my RED has issues in the cold and would probably flop the freezer test as it had a few issues when I used it in 20 degree weather (yeah, that sucks - not ready for National Geo IMO).

Also, someone jump up and use it handheld in an offroad situation or going across train tracks. Again that's something they should handle but many adaptors would not.

You break it send it back.

[astigmatic]

So any word if the flip improves the image quality at all besides it's standard function of flipping the image? I just ordered the base unit and am concerned if my hv20 will experience any edge falloff (vignetting) or CA...

[naavt]

Wait till someone has the time to use them both under similar circumstances (...) No Big Block mount on SG.

As anything else in the world nothing is perfect and I believe that either is not. As you'd mention every adapter has it's own caracteristcs.

When I said the Blade's "got it all, no matter what RR was anouncing" I was talking about price vs performance. Not many years ago you had to spent fortunes on a P+S to have something you an have with 2k USD now!

Nonetheless and to my knowledge (or at least I think that way), it seems that I was right! The 1/2 stop that RR is publicizing like crazies is about the same as the Blade (or so the testers say!), and the last has the ability to change screens like no other!!!

Think about that! For RR give 1/2 stop loss to their customers they've changed all the internals and RR customers have to spent 500 bucks on the upgrade.

By the time Shoot35 develop a "lighter" GG it will cost you 50 bucks!!!! How's that for you? To me looks like a winner!!!

Ps - Sorry about my English but I didn't understood what do you mean by "Big Block Mount"...