Philip Bloom's HPX170 Review

[Dino]

I read and watched Philip Bloom's review of the HPX170/171 on his blog site.
http://philipbloom.co.uk/blog/ (http://philipbloom.co.uk/2008/12/03/review-of-panasonic-hpx-170-171)
I am an admirer of his work and he has always been very generous with his knowledge and experience. However, I'm disappointed with his review. He has made it clear that he is a big fan of the Sony EX1/3, but I don't feel he has given Panasonic, the HPX170, DVCPRO HD or P2 workflow a fair shake. I'm a fan of the EX1's resolution but would like to see Panasonic be given an accurate review.

For example, on both the video blog and written blog he references the expensive P2 media and says XDCAM EX is far less hungry on cards and that you will need A LOT of cards to shoot on P2, citing 16 minutes of DVCPRO HD footage for a 16Gb card.

At no point did he reference 720/24p Native mode, which yields 43 minutes per 16Gb card. I sent a comment about Native mode twice on his site and he has yet to post either of them, even though in a direct email he promised he would do so. He made a couple of comments in his email response to me that leads me to believe he doesn't fully understand the Native P2 mode.

The facts are that a 16Gb XDCAM EX SxS card holds 58 minutes of Long GoP, 4:2:0 35Mbps material, albeit at 1080 or 720. A 16Gb P2 card in 720/24PN mode holds 43 minutes of I Frame footage at around 40Mbps, 4:2:2 colorspace, both are about $800 per card.

Additionally, while stating that DVCPRO HD has 4:2:2 color space(XDCAM EX is 4:2:0) and is less compressed than XDCAM EX, he said he believed it was wasted on a chip of the quality of the HPX. My experience is that the color space difference is noticeable in SD, much less HD and 4:2:2 pays dividends in color correction/grading and chroma keying--regardless of sensor pixel count.

Finally, he said the switchable focus/aperture ring was of dubious usefulness, when it is clear this feature was designed for users of 35mm DOF adapters, which he certainly is a proponent of.(He's probably sold more adapters for Letus than any dealer.)

Philip is certainly entitled to his opinions about which camera he prefers, I just think that a person in the position he's in where potentially thousands of people might read his review, should make every to represent Panasonic products properly.

ON EDIT: I have found my comment on Philip's blog under "Reviews" re: Native. On the blog part of his site my comment does not appear.
Confusing, but Philip did as he promised.

[aalleexx]

I think the fact is that the man really loves the ex1/3 thats his choice of cam and does great things with it
I think we kinda favor the things we like in the end, I found the review to favor the sony line as well, although I am a panni guy

[Chenopup]

I wonder what he shot his interview segments on? Doesn't look any nicer than the HPX footage he's marked in the piece.

[PerroneFord]

For example, on both the video blog and written blog he references the expensive P2 media and says XDCAM EX is far less hungry on cards and that you will need A LOT of cards to shoot on P2, citing 16 minutes of DVCPRO HD footage for a 16Gb card.

At no point did he reference 720/24p Native mode, which yields 43 minutes per 16Gb card. I sent a comment about Native mode twice on his site and he has yet to post either of them, even though in a direct email he promised he would do so. He made a couple of comments in his email response to me that leads me to believe he doesn't fully understand the Native P2 mode.

I'm quite sure he understands it. But see, here's the thing...

Every time a discussion is had about the HVX/HPX and the pixel shifting technology and how the camera is not a true HD camera, Panasonic proponents are quick to point out how the camera is a TRUE 1080p camera. However, when the camera gets REVIEWED as a 1080p camera, including the storage, then you want to cry foul. You can't have it both ways. If you want the camera reviewed as a 720p camera, then call it that, and stop calling it a 1080p. If the camera is truly 1080p then lets review it that way.

I have watched numerous fans of Panasonic cameras review and speak of the EX series of cameras and rail on it for it's 4:2:0 color without ever once mentioning that the color information per frame in full raster 1080p at 4:2:0 and 1280x1080 4:2:2 is nearly the same. Yes, the DVCProHD captures marginally more color information, but it's not NEARLY the gap the reviewers would have people believe.

People tend to favor what they like. It's as simple as that. Take it for what it' woth, but be fair about it. Bloom citing the camera's media requirements is totally legit if we want to claim the HPX is a 1080 camera.

[aalleexx]

I can almost bet my paycheck that he's shooting with the ex1 when he comes out on camera during the review, nothing wrong with that, kinda reminds me of the topic of vista tv commercials getting edited on apple computers, its all good :) like they said on the movie "little children" " we are who we are, and we want what we want" )

[Dino]

I'm quite sure he understands it. But see, here's the thing...

Actually, I'm not sure he understands Native. He wrote in an email to me that Native was "complicated" and "there is no audio".



Every time a discussion is had about the HVX/HPX and the pixel shifting technology and how the camera is not a true HD camera, Panasonic proponents are quick to point out how the camera is a TRUE 1080p camera. However, when the camera gets REVIEWED as a 1080p camera, including the storage, then you want to cry foul. You can't have it both ways. If you want the camera reviewed as a 720p camera, then call it that, and stop calling it a 1080p. If the camera is truly 1080p then lets review it that way.The review I watched and read was of an HD camera. I did not hear or see Philip reference 1080p one time.



I have watched numerous fans of Panasonic cameras review and speak of the EX series of cameras and rail on it for it's 4:2:0 color without ever once mentioning that the color information per frame in full raster 1080p at 4:2:0 and 1280x1080 4:2:2 is nearly the same. Yes, the DVCProHD captures marginally more color information, but it's not NEARLY the gap the reviewers would have people believe.Colorspace is more than multiplying pixels. The edges on 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 material at ANY luminance resolution don't look as good as 4:2:2. By the way, I'm the one that showed you the math in another thread.



People tend to favor what they like. It's as simple as that. Take it for what it' woth, but be fair about it. Bloom citing the camera's media requirements is totally legit if we want to claim the HPX is a 1080 camera.Again, Philip made no reference regarding 1080p or 720p. To leave out and then block my comments about the Native option for P2 makes for an incomplete review, IMO.

[PerroneFord]

Ok Dino. Maybe he doesn't understand. You guys are way ahead of me on this video stuff. I just try to shoot my video to look good.

I hope you sort things out with Mr. Bloom.

[lawriejaffa]

Yah I wouldnt have expected less gumpf from a Bloom review on panny stuff, the guy is Mr Sony lol, maybe i would be too if they paid me sometimes!

Bloom is a nice enough guy im sure, he used to post here (as if he were non-partisan) things like an ex blog diary and so on. But i always suspected touting, and thats fair we all do, but he at least gets paid too.

Any review commissioned by a retailer is a JOKE anyway, cvp wanted to shift more EX's before xmas... so get a review with hyperbole!

True 1080p is smoke in mirrors really, its a size of image, and some sensors resolve more fine details than others - some have more colours, some have totally unique qualities that result from lenses and things. Thats not to deny EX's right to detail coolness in the extra res it resolves in its pictures, but its not how we define HD and only one type of detail.

Sony could have always said, our EX image sensors resolve more visual detail in a picture (a kind of positive marketing spin) but instead we got 'true hd' so they went instead with pushing a 'qualifier' so that guys (especially first prosumer buyers) would crap their pants going 'Omg I need a TRUE Hd cam!!! the others are obviously total fakes omg omg momeeee!'

Hey Panny and others don't always market the positives either, but whack down the 'oh and if you shoot on anything else you suck' type marketing or 'real men buy this - or your only a real camera dude if you buy this etc...'

Thats why Blooms blog starts with such stupidity as 'Everything the HVX wasn’t.'

Thats when you just sit back, look to the heavens and whisper...

'oh mercy...'

[Noel Evans]

Well, I really dont see the point. Its like someone from BMW reviewing the new Audi. Ummm

Companies want to sell you a product people. That's all. I dont care who it is Pana, Sony, Ikegami - Ill make my choice on need not marketing hype.

[Joe Shaw]

At the end of the day, Phil is merely expressing his own personal opinion on a piece of hardware. Something people do on these boards on a daily basis. This is all he has ever done and because he is extremely talented, people seek his opinion.

He has helped a huge number of people with his work and has sought only to pass on his own experiences to others.

I can assure you that Phil's opinion is not swayed by any company. If Fisher Price came up with a camera that he liked, he'd reccommend it. As he has done with all sorts of other products.

For what it's worth, I worked with Phil and we don't share the same opinions. I'm an HX200 guy and I have an SGPro. But I, like many others, value his opinion a great deal. After that it's down to you to investigate further and make your own decisions...

[manglerBMX]

i gota good deal on some 16gb cards when he sold off his hvx gear, all i cared about!

[monkeyking]

I don't know if Mr. Bloom works for Sony, but I know 2 freelance camera guys on this side of the pond who do. They are paid to promote Sony products and attend training sessions. Their job is to promote Sony products thru their network of friends/colleages. They post on usergroups such as this one.
They are often my "go to" guys when I need Sony advice . They are up front about their relationship w/Sony and often remind me of that when answering my questions.
Nothing surprising, Panasonic may do the same thing. It's been common practice in other business sectors to do the same.
There is a term for this kind of collegial network marketing but I can't recall it offhand.

Bottom Line: Take all advice with a grain of salt!


my $.02

[David Saraceno]

At the end of the day, Phil is merely expressing his own personal opinion on a piece of hardware. Something people do on these boards on a daily basis. This is all he has ever done and because he is extremely talented, people seek his opinion.

Opinion is fine, but misinformed statements aren't.

If it is true that he claims pNative doesn't record audio, that it is misinformed.

That's my opinion at least.

[alexdias]

He might be misinformed but we shouldn't presume he's receiving money from Sony.

I love this board for it's fantastic level of discussion and information, people like Jeff, Barry, Philip and many others are the reason why I know so much and don't feel alone on my research and decisions.

Some might be brand biased but I believe most of us here have preferences according to availability, price, technology and so forth.

Maybe Philip could clarify himself this issue for us.

[philip bloom]

For the record, again, I am indepedent. I am not paid by Sony. I was commissioned to do this review for cvp. It was purely my opinion. What I find funny is I actually liked the cam and will prob buy one!

Jeffs cmment on my blog ended up in spam I found it and published it.

I have no alegience to any company but I am heavily invested in sony. But like many I will expect to spend a fortune with red next year.

I love the ex cameras that is no secret, not because of backhanders from Sony but because they are great cameras. Any suggestion that my opinion is bankrolled by sony needs to be withdrawn as it is utterly false.

Yes take my opinion with a pinch of salt like you should anybodys.

[Joseph Stunzi]

haha... i love how carried away we all can get sometimes. We should all get a DVXuser chill pill sometimes!

[philip bloom]

Joe, sorry I missed you at Zacuto today. Next time!!! Loved your round table discussion!!

[Noel Evans]

Sorry Philip. I was going on common perception. Wont make that mistake again.

FWIW, didnt have a problem with your review. And of course there are always points people will rebut. Happens when opinion is involved.

[monkeyking]

Thanks for setting the record straight. Sorry if I inferred you worked with sony. No disrespect intended.

[Joseph Stunzi]

Don't be jealous that Philip Bloom didn't miss you everyone... it's the big curly jewfro-esk hair of mine! It's just hard to resist.

[philip bloom]

the zacuto boys did say your hair is hard to frame!

[Joseph Stunzi]

Plus I have that flaming red skin that's hard to light! Oh the female DPs will love me! I thought about cutting it and shaving it all off... my female companion did not like that too much! My favorite thing about having a fuzz ball on my head is that I never have to worry about brushing my hair (i know I'm lazy). I hop out of the shower. Shake around like a dog running out of the ocean. And am good to go!

Will we see you at NAB again this year Phil?

[Joseph Stunzi]

I went last year. Did the whole show in 2.5 days. It was amazing! You'll never see that many excited people in one room. You really need a team though. The amount of literature you get can weigh you down. I loved it though! Met some cool people! Talked to some sponsors. Lots of awesome stuff.

GO! We should get a DVXuser block setup so it's cheaper.

[David Saraceno]

What about the pNative comment, however? Did Mr. Bloom indeed make that comment, or was the poster incorrect?

If so, was that corrected insofar as recording audio?

Just wondering.

[Dino]

What about the pNative comment, however? Did Mr. Bloom indeed make that comment, or was the poster incorrect?

If so, was that corrected insofar as recording audio?

Just wondering.

Philip made no comment about P2 Native in his review. This is why I wanted him to post my comment about the option of P2 Native for much more P2 record capacity, which he ultimately did.

In an email to me he reversed VFR with Native in regards to audio, I responded to him and in turn responded that he stood corrected--none of this was in his review, so no inaccuracies exist on his site.

Philip is a very honest, helpful supporter to all of us--he gives a lot of his time.
He is camera agnostic in so far as the moment he finds a new camera that serves his art better, he will jump to it--no matter the brand.

[David Saraceno]

Thanks for the clarification.

[alexdias]

He is camera agnostic in so far as the moment he finds a new camera that serves his art better, he will jump to it--no matter the brand.

Great line Jeff!

It should apply to all of us :-)

Alex

[Buck Forester]

Hey, how 'bout that Barry Green review of the EX1? :Þ

[lawriejaffa]

hehe i think my review would be more entertaining though!

[David Saraceno]

exactly haha

If all of us strive to be fair to Mr. Bloom, then perhaps all of us should fair to the objectivity and accuracy of a Barry Green review of anything.

Seems that it cuts both ways.

Barry's contributions here are given freely and often. He isn't paid by any manufacturer.

I'm not certain what all the "ha has" are about, but he is a resource that I value.

[Buck Forester]

Hey David S., I was keeeeeding, although it's quite obvious Barry's review was pretty rough on the camera and he freely admits he doesn't like Sony nor does he like the EX1. And he does sell a book that is packaged with some Panasonic cameras and is endorsed by Panasonic, no? Nothing wrong with that, in fact I applaud him for his success, and it doesn't diminish his knowledge or our appreciation of his insight. But it does provide an obviously biased perspective, or at least potentially biased. A "disclosure" needs to be made when reading his review, which most people who frequent this place know what it is. Whether you see the bias or not depends on your, well, bias. Ha! It's all good. Read the review and read the onslaught of 'sighs of relief' from Panasonic shooters who give the impression they're glad he gave it a negative review. It's quite obvious... unless, you know...

[Buck Forester]

David S., c'mon man, you're WAY too serious. No need to defend Barry, we like him. Really. And bias is not a good or bad thing, it is just what it is. It's cool. If you don't see the bias, then it's just as I said, because many others do... it's all a matter of perspective. No right, no wrong. Adios, amigos.